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[ShockingAlberto]

I think Zaph was trying to invoke that thing Fish said

But this, as in all things, context is key. Probably wasn't a good environment to make that kind of joke and it's off-color to begin with.

 

[Canucked]

I stopped following GG for a bit, but here is the weekend!

So are GamerGaters now banned from 4chan AND reddit? The bodies it was birthed in?

How can you be banned from those communities of ALL communities and still think you're respectable? There has to be a point where you sit down and say "I'm not good enough for 4chan, maybe it's time to reevaluate."

 

[plagiarize]

Yeah, I usually don't like the "if you don't like it, make your own" argument, but seriously people, if you want a video series so completely different than what she's offering, go make your own.

She is *legally obligated* to make her videos the way she has been.

https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use#section4

 

[NoblesseOblige]

As someone who doesn't use social media much and doesn't really have any connections or anything of that sort, is there anything I can do to help out this anti gamer gate movement? I hate seeing what's going on but also feel like I can't do much about it other than talk about it.

My opinion is that just being privy to what's going on and calling BS when it's seen or heard will help. You don't have to put yourself that far out there and risk your own well-being if you're not willing to, nobody should expect that, but if you hear someone spouting some propaganda then maybe make them aware of how it's wrong. If someone doesn't want to listen though then for your own sanity they're usually not worth engaging further. Also, when you can, voicing support for those that are trying to make gaming a safe medium for everyone does help.

 

[Zaph]

I think Zaph was trying to invoke that thing Fish said

But this, as in all things, context is key. Probably wasn't a good environment to make that kind of joke and it's off-color to begin with.

I was. Granted, it was indeed off colour.

I find it funny/sad (can't figure out which) that TB is on twitter saying that he agrees with Polygon's editorial about gamergate. Then why the fuck are you still supporting gamergate then? But it kinda makes sense since he also tweeted that he doesn't think this has to be political. Everything in your life since the day you were born in political and so is this. Can't believe he's still reaching for this false middle ground. Can't be neutral on a moving train etc.

It must be down to stubbornness. He's committed and probably feels like he can't backtrack now. He needs to take a leaf out of Jim Sterling's book and realise the world won't end by simply saying he was wrong and change his ways.

The crazies like Milo and Baldwin aren't what's fueling this, it's the people adding tiny amounts of legitimacy here and there keeping that veneer intact.

 

[Lime]

I would like to highlight this documentary that has been released internally to backers, and is awaiting public release: http://www.gtfothemovie.com/

When you think of video games, do you think of a teenage boy playing in his parent’s basement? Well today, 48% of all gamers are women. Yet every day, these women are subjected to insults, harassment, and threats simply because of their gender.

“GTFO” is a term often used to exclude women from gaming, and stands for “Get The F&#$ Out.” The documentary features professional gamers, developers, writers, and scholars, as they navigate the world of video games as women. It will explore what it means to be a woman in gaming, and how the gaming community can change the environment for the better.

Its Kickstarter page: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/shannonsun/gtfo

 

[justjim89]

This has probably been brought up before, but I don't read up too much on this nonsense cause it just gives me a headache, but if all this started with the Zoe Quinn debacle, why has she been the target of most hate and harassment and not the writer that supposedly gave positive coverage to her game in exchange for sex? That's always been the key sign to me that a lot of this is really just about repressed sexism and misogyny for a lot of these toolboxes.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I find it funny/sad (can't figure out which) that TB is on twitter saying that he agrees with Polygon's editorial about gamergate. Then why the fuck are you still supporting gamergate then?

If anything TB is good at putting his own interests in front of everything else - it just takes a look at his post on how to deal with death threats to see that. He knows he can't just offer blatant support to either side without losing some viewership. He's trying to tote the 'moderate' tag but as we know that's ridiculous. If he really cared about the gaming climate as much as he pretends to then goal number one should be to doing away with aggressive harassment and calling out GG for its actions that elevate that behavior. Instead he focuses on oh so important subjects such as a Gamespot article that accidentally posted PC footage with an XB1 tag.

 

[Brakke]

This has probably been brought up before, but I don't read up too much on this nonsense cause it just gives me a headache, but if all this started with the Zoe Quinn debacle, why has she been the target of most hate and harassment and not the writer that supposedly gave positive coverage to her game in exchange for sex? That's always been the key sign to me that a lot of this is really just about repressed sexism and misogyny for a lot of these toolboxes.

Yes.

 

[Myggen]

I was. Granted, it was indeed off colour.


It must be down to stubbornness. He's committed and probably feels like he can't backtrack now. He needs to take a leaf out of Jim Sterling's book and realise the world won't end by simply saying he was wrong and change his ways.

The crazies like Milo and Baldwin aren't what's fueling this, it's the people adding tiny amounts of legitimacy here and there keeping that veneer intact.

Exactly.

 

[plagiarize]

Exactly.

That's why *those* are the people I'm criticizing.

 

[Lime]

That "Death threats" thread and the replies in it really put a dent into my mood about this whole thing. I was hoping that the obvious toxicity and the clear-cut bigotry would motivate people to do something about this and actually care, but apparently people still want to sit on their asses and do nothing.

I am worried that nothing will change for the better after this.

 

[Brakke]

Exactly.

Still pissed at Totilo acquiescing to the demands of terrorists. Disclosing Patreon relationships was such a minor thing. Dude should've waited for shit to calm down before adopting that policy, or he should've done so silently.

 

[Moral Panic]

That "Death threats" thread and the replies in it really put a dent into my mood about this whole thing. I was hoping that the obvious toxicity and the clear-cut bigotry would motivate people to do something about this and actually care, but apparently people still want to sit on their asses and do nothing.

I am worried that nothing will change for the better after this.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=912581
We have already won, this is merely the last cries of people watching a bit of their privilege slip from their body.

 

[tchocky]

Still pissed at Totilo acquiescing to the demands of terrorists. Disclosing Patreon relationships was such a minor thing. Dude should've waited for shit to calm down before adopting that policy, or he should've done so silently.

He said on twitter last night that he has learned so much in the last week that will make him a better writer. So hopefully that is one of the things he realised he screwed up. I really like Stephen but his problem has always been trying to be too nice, moderate and listen to everybody as well as too willing to compromise.

 

[BumblebeeCody]

That "Death threats" thread and the replies in it really put a dent into my mood about this whole thing. I was hoping that the obvious toxicity and the clear-cut bigotry would motivate people to do something about this and actually care, but apparently people still want to sit on their asses and do nothing.

I am worried that nothing will change for the better after this.

Nah plenty of things will change. We'll see less female developers and writers. We'll see more death and rape/ We'll see the same morons reading those corrupt gaming jouranlism websites and caring about reviews.

Don't worry, yo. Gamergate is doing great! So far, it has achieved..........

 

[ShockingAlberto]

That "Death threats" thread and the replies in it really put a dent into my mood about this whole thing. I was hoping that the obvious toxicity and the clear-cut bigotry would motivate people to do something about this and actually care, but apparently people still want to sit on their asses and do nothing.

I am worried that nothing will change for the better after this.

At some point, gaming culture started treating apathy as cool.

 

[LiegeWaffle]

Still pissed at Totilo acquiescing to the demands of terrorists. Disclosing Patreon relationships was such a minor thing. Dude should've waited for shit to calm down before adopting that policy, or he should've done so silently.

I disagree; Gamergate would have had a more solid ground for their claims if he did not make it clear from the beginning that Kotaku holds itself to high ethical standards, and allegations against Nathan Grayson are completely unsupported.

 

[Lime]

At some point, gaming culture started treating apathy as cool.

It's not even apathy. The posters in that thread are spending energy and time on making the effort to state that game companies and media shouldn't do anything about this. It's an active negation of doing anything to fix the problems in video game culture and industry.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Still pissed at Totilo acquiescing to the demands of terrorists. Disclosing Patreon relationships was such a minor thing. Dude should've waited for shit to calm down before adopting that policy, or he should've done so silently.

Patreon relationships are something that SHOULD be disclosed.

I mean, would you trust a newspaper that was funding a political side whilst reporting on that side?(Edit-Not saying that's what's happening, but disclosure should be the same for all journalists across all fields if they want to be respected.)

 

[RM8]

I've been asking some of my gamer friends IRL if they're aware of this whole GG thing and they don't even know about it. When explained, they think it's stupid and embarrassing. I hope I'm not proven wrong, but GG is not a thing here in Mexico Based language barrier.

When I Google "GamerGate México" I only see news reports, including accusations of being an anti feminist movement.

 

[plagiarize]

It's not even apathy. The posters in that thread are spending energy and time on making the effort to state that game companies and media shouldn't do anything about this. It's an active negation of doing anything to fix the problems in video game culture and industry.

It'll happen if we keep shining a light on GamerGate. Eventually the game companies will make a stand and GamerGate will either give up or have to start boycotting major game companies. We've just got a lot more work to do first.

 

[FyreWulff]

Patreon relationships are something that SHOULD be disclosed.

I mean, would you trust a newspaper that was funding a political side whilst reporting on that side?(Edit-Not saying that's what's happening, but disclosure should be the same for all journalists across all fields if they want to be respected.)

Newspapers already do this.

In fact, every newspaper of note was founded by someone because they wanted to push their politics onto the populace. They have never been neutral.

When someone assumes something is "unbiased", that's because it's catering to them, they agree with it and are mostly not offended because they only think of things from their viewpoint. What GGers are basically asking for is that games please continue asssuming the default race is white and the default gender as male.

 

[plagiarize]

Trying some positivity.

Just tweeted "I support developers and publishers that stand against anti feminism. #GameTogether #StopGamerGate2014"

I'm sure it'll go nowhere but worth a shot.

 

[tonysidaway]

Patreon relationships are something that SHOULD be disclosed.

I mean, would you trust a newspaper that was funding a political side whilst reporting on that side?(Edit-Not saying that's what's happening, but disclosure should be the same for all journalists across all fields if they want to be respected.)

If I buy a video game, I'm funding the developer. In practice, usually we feel there is a problem if the developer provides a freebie to the reviewer, not the reverse; did the developer do so in order to secure a review?

I find the comparison of a game developer to a political party unconvincing. Of course a reviewer is usually going to exercise (or be involved in) an editorial decision on what gets reviewed and when. It can be taken for granted that they believe the item is at least worth some people buying, even if they actively dislike it and say so. Really bad games can be ignored. We can find out whether the reviewer personally likes the game quite easily: read the review (the very purpose of which is to express the reviewer's personal opinion).

 

[Etnos]

The crazies like Milo and Baldwin aren't what's fueling this, it's the people adding tiny amounts of legitimacy here and there keeping that veneer intact.

Milo is a transparent machiavellian and manipulative right wing journalist pushing his agenda and his persona using this movement, so so... transparent about it. Im not using "right wing" as a pejorative, you need a ying and yang, conservative - liberal etc... but this guy its just an opportunistic ass (read his gta review to see how much he respect gamers).

Adam Baldwin its just a next level peace of shit, he claims to be libertarian... but ohh boy, have not read other than neo-fascit B.S. coming out of his twitter.

Long story short... not sure if these 2 do really add legitimacy at all.

 

[Myggen]

Patreon relationships are something that SHOULD be disclosed.

I mean, would you trust a newspaper that was funding a political side whilst reporting on that side?(Edit-Not saying that's what's happening, but disclosure should be the same for all journalists across all fields if they want to be respected.)

I think he's talking more about the timing of the announcement. Also, Kotaku's policy went beyond just demanding that their writers disclose Patreon funding.

 

[Moral Panic]

Patreon relationships are something that SHOULD be disclosed.

I mean, would you trust a newspaper that was funding a political side whilst reporting on that side?(Edit-Not saying that's what's happening, but disclosure should be the same for all journalists across all fields if they want to be respected.)

Most newspapers (at least int he UK) openly support a political party. It was a big deal back in 2010 when the Guardian newspaper switched from Labour to Lib Dems. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...ardian-newspaper-backs-Liberal-Democrats.html

And then the famous Sun Wot Won it and all the variations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_The_Sun_Wot_Won_It

Again this is just more evidence that all this talk of "corruption" in the VG industry is without any real basis.

 

[Canucked]

Trying some positivity.

Just tweeted "I support developers and publishers that stand against anti feminism. #GameTogether #StopGamerGate2014"

I'm sure it'll go nowhere but worth a shot.

I'll join. I like that. Stealing it word for word though, sorry.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

By the way, this was hilarious last night:

People LOSING THEIR MINDS over Kamiya saying this (actually pretty milquetoast) tweet.

Most people trying to convince themselves he just has to stay quiet to keep the press Illuminati off his back.

 

[ibyea]

If this article was posted, sorry about that. This is a great article about the comparison between the current outrage and the anti disco outrage in the 70s: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I think he's talking more about the timing of the announcement. Also, Kotaku's policy went beyond just demanding that their writers disclose Patreon funding.

Most newspapers (at least int he UK) openly support a political party. It was a big deal back in 2010 when the Guardian newspaper switched from Labour to Lib Dems. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...ardian-newspaper-backs-Liberal-Democrats.html

And then the famous Sun Wot Won it and all the variations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_The_Sun_Wot_Won_It

Again this is just more evidence that all this talk of "corruption" in the VG industry is without any real basis.

Fair enough!

 

[Etnos]

By the way, this was hilarious last night:

People LOSING THEIR MINDS over Kamiya saying this (actually pretty milquetoast) tweet.

LMAO, Quite possibly the only better thing than Bayoneta is Kamiya blocking idiots on twitter

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Wait, correction, people are still losing their minds over it.

 

[ibyea]

That "Death threats" thread and the replies in it really put a dent into my mood about this whole thing. I was hoping that the obvious toxicity and the clear-cut bigotry would motivate people to do something about this and actually care, but apparently people still want to sit on their asses and do nothing.

I am worried that nothing will change for the better after this.

Worst of all were all the comments trying to justify their cognitive dissonance by saying she was at fault somehow.

 

[toythatkills]

This has probably been brought up before, but I don't read up too much on this nonsense cause it just gives me a headache, but if all this started with the Zoe Quinn debacle, why has she been the target of most hate and harassment and not the writer that supposedly gave positive coverage to her game in exchange for sex? That's always been the key sign to me that a lot of this is really just about repressed sexism and misogyny for a lot of these toolboxes.

It's because that poor poor journalist was MANIPULATED by that EVIL SUCCUBUS who FORCED him to do her bidding and he had no way at all of defending himself, being a mere defenceless man, such as he was.

It's GamerGate, you've just gotta let logic take a back seat.

 

[tchocky]

I don't really see the difference between giving money to something like Patreon and buying a game on early access. In both cases the finished games would not exist without the funding.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

By the way, this was hilarious last night:

People LOSING THEIR MINDS over Kamiya saying this (actually pretty milquetoast) tweet.

Most people trying to convince themselves he just has to stay quiet to keep the press Illuminati off his back.

"...but... but... Bayonetta 2... Polygon... freedom..." *explodes into confetti*

 

[The Technomancer]

Kamiya is a fascinating Twitter personality. Why does he even use it?

 

[partyphone]

I don't really see the difference between giving money to something like Patreon and buying a game on early access. In both cases the finished games would not exist without the funding.

or just buying a game off the shelf. you're paying money to get content. corruption is taking money to do something you wouldn't normally do.

 

[plagiarize]

or just buying a game off the shelf. you're paying money to get content. corruption is taking money to do something you wouldn't normally do.

Sure but that's why I don't mind them doing it. Only crazy people would think patreon support was suspect, so take away the disclosure criticism from those crazy people and they have to find a different criticism to hide behind.

 

[Forkball]

By the way, this was hilarious last night:

People LOSING THEIR MINDS over Kamiya saying this (actually pretty milquetoast) tweet.

Most people trying to convince themselves he just has to stay quiet to keep the press Illuminati off his back.

It's funny because he probably has no idea what gamergate even is, he just hates people using it over and over again. Kamiya really does have one of the best twitter accounts.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

Patreon relationships are something that SHOULD be disclosed.

I mean, would you trust a newspaper that was funding a political side whilst reporting on that side?(Edit-Not saying that's what's happening, but disclosure should be the same for all journalists across all fields if they want to be respected.)

1. What you're describing already happens. I don't know why you'd think otherwise. Do you really think the newspaper your read or the news station you watch is "unbiased" and "objective"?

2. Comparing it to a videogame reporter giving money to a dev whose work he enjoys is very far-fetched. How is it so different from paying for games you like, or buying merch from a franchise you enjoy? I'd call it corruption if the dev gave money to the reporter; not really the other way around.

 

[gigantor21]

This has probably been brought up before, but I don't read up too much on this nonsense cause it just gives me a headache, but if all this started with the Zoe Quinn debacle, why has she been the target of most hate and harassment and not the writer that supposedly gave positive coverage to her game in exchange for sex? That's always been the key sign to me that a lot of this is really just about repressed sexism and misogyny for a lot of these toolboxes.

I've been wondering that too, and came to the same conclusion. The lopsided nature of the outrage made it hard to take the campaign seriously long before the death threats started.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Kamiya is a fascinating Twitter personality. Why does he even use it?

To tweet at Japanese celebrities he thinks are cute and practice his english.

 

[Silky]

Kamiya is a fascinating Twitter personality. Why does he even use it?

Ask your mom.

 

[Intheflorsh]

Kamiya is a fascinating Twitter personality. Why does he even use it?

Probably for the schadenfreude thrill of rejecting people desperate for his attention. It's pretty fun to watch.

 

[Cheebo]

The face of gamer gate right here. This gamer gate guy is trying to explain why it's okay to mostly target women:
https://twitter.com/Curunitar/status/518335124812095488


Wow.

 

[LiegeWaffle]

Kamiya is a fascinating Twitter personality. Why does he even use it?

My speculation is that if Twitter at some point loses the list of all the user accounts they have, they could recreate it from Kamiya's blocklist.

 

[Dandy Lyin]

Patreon relationships are something that SHOULD be disclosed.

I mean, would you trust a newspaper that was funding a political side whilst reporting on that side?(Edit-Not saying that's what's happening, but disclosure should be the same for all journalists across all fields if they want to be respected.)

Maybe it's the cold medicine talking, but I just don't see much of a difference between "Bob" supporting an indie dev on Patreon, and "Bob" pre-ordering the next Bungie game.