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[Mooreberg]

As for the argument about the game being unfinished, it is widespread enough that articles about it appear in the first page of Google News results on the title - https://www.barrons.com/amp/articles/battlefield-5-reviews-1543589988

Even people praising aspects of the game are conceding that it was pushed out the door early.

 

[RedVIper]

How do you know? For all you know the developer is a sjw and the whole game is some symbolic thing about communism lol

When he starts tweeting about his real "agenda", you going to stop playing it or ?

This is just too much of a unknown and pretty much irrelevant. People I disagree with on politics, religion etc have made games, films, shows I like etc, that doesn't change the fact if I think a game they make is fun. So if a "sjw" can have a agenda, any group can and likely has been putting their um "agenda" in their work.

You really want to go down a road where this is your reasons for watching, playing, reading or enjoying anything?

EDMIX for someone who has claimed he doesn't care you are probably the one who has posted the most on this thread.
I don't care about a developers, movie directors, or musicians political views, as long as it doesn't affect their work. I also believe it's not unreasonable for someone not buy the game as protest for the way DICE treated their consumers.

You've also been making the assumption that other's can't/don't enjoy the media they consume simply because they disagree with the political views of the people who made it. No one is telling you you can't have fun with the game, but you insist on telling everyone they shouldn't care about these issues just because you don't.

Why BF5 shouldn't care about accuracy
- EA/DICE has never said their BF games are historically accurate
- Gamers are outraged at unrealistic storylines, yet have no problem with unrealistic gameplay
- All forms of media fudge the facts to make things different (even documentaries with an agenda mess around with clips)
- Does it really matter? It's entertainment and a game

-That's simple not true, they have claimed over the years that they strive for it
-You're comparing authenticity to realism, which are very different.
-And that doesn't means its right in other forms of media either and people should criticize those.
-Meh, I'd prefer if no one misrepresented history because I think it ultimately doesn't help anyone. But the problem here is how it was handled.

Btw you commented on the release date, didn't they delay the game like a month.

 

[manfestival]

Battlefield Heroes was a thing and people here seem to be forgetting this. I view this as a very important factor as it blatantly and shamelessly turned ww2 into a cartoon and it received far less criticism than BF5. This is very important to consider. The problem is pretty evident in the portrayal of the game and the approach that was taken with Dice. These were also NON issues for BF1 which also has women in it and a fair amount of historical inaccuracy. I don't even want to bother with looking into to see if there is any truth at all behind the war stories in BF1. They were pretty meh overall but the opening scene was just fantastic. People here keep beating a dead horse expecting a different result for some reason.

(different issue)The game is almost touting its unfinished state as a selling point. They are also putting so much into the promise of future content when there is no guarantee that they will stick to their timeline. MEH move

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Btw you commented on the release date, didn't they delay the game like a month.

Ya. Activision released BO4 about a month earlier than usual which would be around the same time as BFV's initital date (wiki says Oct 19 was the first date). But ends up EA released it a month later (or 5 weeks after BO4).

 

[EDMIX]

EDMIX for someone who has claimed he doesn't care you are probably the one who has posted the most on this thread.
I don't care about a developers, movie directors, or musicians political views, as long as it doesn't affect their work. I also believe it's not unreasonable for someone not buy the game as protest for the way DICE treated their consumers.

You've also been making the assumption that other's can't/don't enjoy the media they consume simply because they disagree with the political views of the people who made it. No one is telling you you can't have fun with the game, but you insist on telling everyone they shouldn't care about these issues just because you don't.




-That's simple not true, they have claimed over the years that they strive for it
-You're comparing authenticity to realism, which are very different.
-And that doesn't means its right in other forms of media either and people should criticize those.
-Meh, I'd prefer if no one misrepresented history because I think it ultimately doesn't help anyone. But the problem here is how it was handled.

Btw you commented on the release date, didn't they delay the game like a month.

Can't enjoy something you don't play. I don't skip games based on developer views.

". I also believe it's not unreasonable for someone not buy the game as protest for the way DICE treated their consumers" Oh yea, I guess I should also skip Red Dead 2 as well cause how they treated their employees /s Keep gaming based on feelings bud, lets see how far that really gets you.

Is it fun?

Only criteria I have. I don't buy games based on twitter, or emotional feelings about the developer. Sad that anyone really buys anything based on this. I'd argue that actually is the SJW mindset ironically, buy based on feelings alone lol You folks might just be the SJW for another side.

btw, pretty sure I'm free to post on any thread. (not sure why folks keep trying to discourage others from posting by using this phrase)

 

[Racer!]

Is it fun?

Only criteria I have. I don't buy games based on twitter, or emotional feelings about the developer. Sad that anyone really buys anything based on this. I'd argue that actually is the SJW mindset ironically, buy based on feelings alone lol You folks might just be the SJW for another side.

btw, pretty sure I'm free to post on any thread. (not sure why folks keep trying to discourage others from posting by using this phrase)

Why do you play again?

 

[Racer!]

Double post

 

[TissueBox]

This shouldn't be a controversy, this should be a nice obligatory cookout with sporadically dissenting cliques! ^^' Let the ladies in, it's not like it's being poisonous or harming anything.

 

[Zewp]

I don't care about a developers, movie directors, or musicians political views, as long as it doesn't affect their work. I also believe it's not unreasonable for someone not buy the game as protest for the way DICE treated their consumers.

Politics and media are very closely intertwined. Many games incorporate politics, some subtly, some not so subtly. What you're really saying here is you don't want politics that you personally don't agree with in games.

 

[LegendOfKage]

"fans" gimmie a fucking break. They cant handle a woman in a video game. Theyre not fans, theyre an embarassement to video games. And FYI, COD WW2 had playable women in MP. Didnt hear a peep out of that peanut squad.

I posted this earlier in the thread, and part of your post reminded me of a point I already addressed. If you'd like to engage with an actual argument instead of that strawman, feel free to reply. Or continue with the bad faith. Either way.

I'm willing to understand the argument "Yeah, why not, it's just multiplayer. We all know there weren't real life soldiers in WWII, except for very few exceptions in certain armies. It's not a big deal to add women and minorities to multiplayer, so people can play as who they want." COD WWII made the same argument, and some people didn't like it, but the developers never ran with the "you just can't stand the idea of having women in any of your video games you toxic manchild" strawman, so people didn't really care all that much. It's inaccurate, but I can see where having the option to play as a different race or gender in multiplayer might be more important for some people than historical accuracy.

At the same time, I'm hoping you can understand how many people feel there's no good reason to take a REAL event where a group of men risked their lives to save countless other lives, actual people who are actual heroes, and replace them with a lone mother and daughter. To write actual heroes out of their own story. I can't understand how some people can't sympathize with those who feel it's repulsive to portray the French as considerably more racist than they actually were in the 1940s. So many people will play that campaign not realizing that the French military wasn't segregated, and not realizing that some french commanders were killed for protecting black soldiers serving under them.

If you wanted to include women in the story of a WWII game, there are ways that could have been accomplished that would have been completely historically accurate, such as that famous Russian sniper, and some other examples. You could have also explained that WWII is one of the MAIN reasons for early feminism regarding employment in the first place. All the men were gone, and women stepped up in a massive way to keep America going. Then the men came home, and a lot of women wanted to continue working. I think that's a far more important story to tell than the absurd fabrications that Dice put into their game. And I hope you can understand why I would feel that way.

This shouldn't be a controversy, this should be a nice obligatory cookout with sporadically dissenting cliques! ^^' Let the ladies in, it's not like it's being poisonous or harming anything.

I'll also tag you into this reply, if you'd like to discuss the "let the ladies in" element of this. Women in a WWII game isn't really the issue for me and a lot of others.

Y'all need, Jesus.

It's funny you should say that:

 

[MilkyJoe]

Does it actually hurt you physically when a women or person of colour are put into a game?

No?

So why does the inclusion bother you.

Sometimes people like to feel included. But sure let's bemoan equality in the name of "historical realism"

How does equality suddenly allow everyone to play? Are only white folk allowed into the cinema to watch a Bond movie?

Are you saying that minorities and females are so fragile that they cannot enjoy historical themed entertainment unless they are represented?

 

[RedVIper]

Politics and media are very closely intertwined. Many games incorporate politics, some subtly, some not so subtly. What you're really saying here is you don't want politics that you personally don't agree with in games.

I like how you completely disregard my next statement where I say you can enjoy it regardless. But honestly games that preach about politics (For either "side") are the exception not the rule. I would prefer to keep it that way, maybe you don't, that's fine too.

 

[Noboru Wataya]

I have no issue with women being put in the game. Although I do not like their gender bent, re-written war stories to cater to the SJW crowd or their twitter/PR rhetoric that just insults a fan base who think rewriting actual history is a pretty shitty thing to do. I still play the game and its quite good in multiplayer, I just simply don't like the white saviour complex devs. Fuck em.

 

[Catphish]

The only video that matters and its not even Battlefield related. Someone send this to DICE and explain its not just because there is a woman in a game, its because you put shit that never existed just to please a demographic that is hype now to better sell your game.

Fucking brilliant, that

 

[Halo is Back]

I posted this earlier in the thread, and part of your post reminded me of a point I already addressed. If you'd like to engage with an actual argument instead of that strawman, feel free to reply. Or continue with the bad faith. Either way.

I'm willing to understand the argument "Yeah, why not, it's just multiplayer. We all know there weren't real life soldiers in WWII, except for very few exceptions in certain armies. It's not a big deal to add women and minorities to multiplayer, so people can play as who they want." COD WWII made the same argument, and some people didn't like it, but the developers never ran with the "you just can't stand the idea of having women in any of your video games you toxic manchild" strawman, so people didn't really care all that much. It's inaccurate, but I can see where having the option to play as a different race or gender in multiplayer might be more important for some people than historical accuracy.

At the same time, I'm hoping you can understand how many people feel there's no good reason to take a REAL event where a group of men risked their lives to save countless other lives, actual people who are actual heroes, and replace them with a lone mother and daughter. To write actual heroes out of their own story. I can't understand how some people can't sympathize with those who feel it's repulsive to portray the French as considerably more racist than they actually were in the 1940s. So many people will play that campaign not realizing that the French military wasn't segregated, and not realizing that some french commanders were killed for protecting black soldiers serving under them.

If you wanted to include women in the story of a WWII game, there are ways that could have been accomplished that would have been completely historically accurate, such as that famous Russian sniper, and some other examples. You could have also explained that WWII is one of the MAIN reasons for early feminism regarding employment in the first place. All the men were gone, and women stepped up in a massive way to keep America going. Then the men came home, and a lot of women wanted to continue working. I think that's a far more important story to tell than the absurd fabrications that Dice put into their game. And I hope you can understand why I would feel that way.



I'll also tag you into this reply, if you'd like to discuss the "let the ladies in" element of this. Women in a WWII game isn't really the issue for me and a lot of others.



It's funny you should say that:

Well put. I don't have any problem with it being in the MP but in SP where you actually replace real people with others in the name of "diversity" is just misguided.

 

[Halo is Back]

All of this could have been avoided if they just never announced in their marketing that women would be predominantly featured in the game. People could have just found out once they played MP that they could change genders. Sure there might have been some controversy behind it but not to this absurd level. People seem to forget that you could play an Asian woman as an American solider in last years COD WW2. Sure, there was some talk about it but no where the level BFV is getting yet COD is widely hated on the internet.

All in all, the lesson to take here is not to force a political agenda on a historical setting just because you feel the need to be progressive. It could set a dangerous precedent down the road if we keep changing history to accommodate your personal feelings. With that said I still look forward to playing the game on Christmas but this should be taken as a future lesson for other companies.

 

[Gormless Noodle]

All of this could have been avoided if they just never announced in their marketing that women would be predominantly featured in the game. People could have just found out once they played MP that they could change genders. Sure there might have been some controversy behind it but not to this absurd level. People seem to forget that you could play an Asian woman as an American solider in last years COD WW2. Sure, there was some talk about it but no where the level BFV is getting yet COD is widely hated on the internet.

All in all, the lesson to take here is not to force a political agenda on a historical setting just because you feel the need to be progressive. It could set a dangerous precedent down the road if we keep changing history to accommodate your personal feelings. With that said I still look forward to playing the game on Christmas but this should be taken as a future lesson for other companies.

Well yes, it's all about the intent behind what you're doing. As you said, they could have very easily avoided all this by simply not making these inflammatory statements towards their customer base while leaving the game exactly as is. With some genres these sorts of things will have little impact, but with this genre specifically it's a really bad idea.

 

[bonchooski]

Can we also complain about how DICE is doing a disservice to the men who served by letting their health regen in BFV!!

These historical inaccuracies are a disgrace!!!!

 

[Dunki]

Can we also complain about how DICE is doing a disservice to the men who served by letting their health regen in BFV!!

These historical inaccuracies are a disgrace!!!!

There is quite a difference between having health regen or even women and black people in the game as protagonist and rewriting the story so everyone else except the oppressed minority characters are eitehr racist assholes or dumb idiots.....

They represent especially the french soldiers as utterly racist and the African soldiers who fought for them as superheroes who even let the fleeing enemy go because it would not be right to kill them. Even after they brutally murdered helpless African soldiers.

 

[Racer!]

Can we also complain about how DICE is doing a disservice to the men who served by letting their health regen in BFV!!

These historical inaccuracies are a disgrace!!!!

How come people dont get the difference between immersion and realism? Shouldnt be that hard, really.

 

[Halo is Back]

Can we also complain about how DICE is doing a disservice to the men who served by letting their health regen in BFV!!

These historical inaccuracies are a disgrace!!!!

No game is going to 100% real. You are missing the point. You can still have a historical accurate game with the luxury of gameplay mechanics that make the game more fun so please don't mix the two up.

 

[Elcid]

How do you know? For all you know the developer is a sjw and the whole game is some symbolic thing about communism lol

When he starts tweeting about his real "agenda", you going to stop playing it or ?

This is just too much of a unknown and pretty much irrelevant. People I disagree with on politics, religion etc have made games, films, shows I like etc, that doesn't change the fact if I think a game they make is fun. So if a "sjw" can have a agenda, any group can and likely has been putting their um "agenda" in their work.

You really want to go down a road where this is your reasons for watching, playing, reading or enjoying anything?

Actually yes. I'm a father with young kids so if I detect an agenda I drop it immediately. I studied literature for my bachelor's so I'm pretty good at detecting allegories and metaphors. If I detect an agenda I drop it. Simple as that.

 

[Elcid]

How come people dont get the difference between immersion and realism? Shouldnt be that hard, really.

I actually hate health Regan. I love COD hardcore where there's no HUD, crosshair, or health Regen.

 

[LegendOfKage]

Can we also complain about how DICE is doing a disservice to the men who served by letting their health regen in BFV!!

These historical inaccuracies are a disgrace!!!!

No game is going to 100% real. You are missing the point. You can still have a historical accurate game with the luxury of gameplay mechanics that make the game more fun so please don't mix the two up.

Get off that stupid argument. Dice never said anything about their game is supposed to be historically authentic, believable, or even respectful of history. Oh wait, yes they did:

"We treat history with great respect, as we did before with Battlefield 1942 and Battlefield 1. We have set out to make a game that is believable with a level of authenticity that ensures we're still delivering an enjoyable and engaging experience."

 

[Halo is Back]

Get off that stupid argument. Dice never said anything about their game is supposed to be historically accurate, believable, or even respectful of history. Oh wait, yes they did:

Are you arguing against me? (NVM I saw you liked my post)

 

[GhostOfTsu]

#Everyonesbf and yet the sales are down. It's funny how when they try to pander to SJWs they sell less copies.

Same thing happened to Arkane, they even met Anita to change their games and they bombed out the gate. No one cared about Emily and that asian/female duo in Prey.

Other games put female soldiers without issues but DICE had to make a big point and it backfired badly.

 

[Scopa]

#Everyonesbf and yet the sales are down. It's funny how when they try to pander to SJWs they sell less copies.

It turns out that “everyone” doesn’t actually buy games. As in the screeching, virtue-signalling idiots on the internet.

Who woulda thunk it?

 

[Kreydo]

Took the words right out of my mouth, why this video is so under the radar?

 

[Alexios]

I like that they are pushing pro-inclusion stuff even if it's just to make money. I'm sure there are other reasons for BFV not selling well than having women.

Personally I'm just not interested, BF is not COD to me, one game a generation (expansions for more money duh). but the best it can be, should be the goal.

 

[llien]

...women on the front lines of ww1 and ww2?

Given the way our species reproduce, the only possible reason for sending women to the front lines is if you run out of men to sacrifice.
To my knowledge, only USSR sort of did that, (most medics, limited number of miners/snipers/pilots in Soviet Army were women). Even including medics, total number of women didn't exceed 3% of military personell.

 

[Shmunter]

The sjw tenacity on full display it seems. It must be the echo chamber perpetuating this as the right thing to do. Fuck knows, seems like pure insanity at this point. Genuinely feeling somber for the human race at this point.

 

[Mojoraisin]

I like that they are pushing pro-inclusion stuff even if it's just to make money. I'm sure there are other reasons for BFV not selling well than having women.

Yeah, and if you actually read the thread you would understand it's not about that.

 

[Saruhashi]

I hate video gaming in 2018.

Video game developers from the 1980s would probably be making the shocked Pikachu face and laughing after that in disbelief if they saw what consumers and the companies are spewing out of their mouths nowadays.

Take the fucking politics out of video games, I already deal with that crap outside of them as well.

I reckon that a video game in the 80s, 90s or even the early 00s that had something like an all female team fighting on WW2 battlefields would not have gotten that much, if any, hate. I think that it's probably even something that 1980s developers would think is quite a cool idea.

It's one of the things I don't really get about all this recently. The 80s and 90s especially had a lot of female led sci-fi and action content in books, movies and even games. Yet, in 2018, people act like a woman in a video game is some new and unheard of thing.

The way some people talk about BFV you'd think this was the very first game ever to feature a woman and gamers are freaking out because there never was a woman in a game before and they can't handle it.

This is provably false though. FFS even Battlefield 1 had female characters but not this level of "outrage".

It seems obvious to me that people are objecting to games that have a clear agenda. That's it.

It looks more to me like people feel they have "woken up" to the idea that developers are trying to shoehorn political commentary into their games.
Political commentary that many people just don't agree with.
So those people are pushing back.
Developers and certain article writers in the community are trying to defend their ideology by implying that people just can't cope with the idea of a woman in a videogame.
It makes no sense.

I'd like to see how much this has actually affected sales of the game. If this is still selling millions of copies then I guess people don't care.
If sales are WAY down then you'd think Dice/EA would have to look at their marketing as wonder if maybe attacking their audience isn't the best strategy.

 

[TheSHEEEP]

The ... uhm... "special" depiction of WW2 in this game isn't even the problem.
The Anti-SJW brigade is getting all hung up on it, of course, but if it was just that, the game would do fine.

The game is:
- Unfinished
- A bad Battlefield game that tries to be a Call Of Duty game, and is at best mediocre at that (BF was always about the big scale, this one just isn't)
- Published by EA, and I do have a feeling that little by little, their rep is catching up with them, with even casuals taking notice
- Released with too many other, similar games to compete with

Dice can do good games, but EA pushes them to do one release per year. You cannot produce consistent quality like that.
Even AngryJoe just gives the game a 5/10, because it is so.... meh.

 

[DarkestHour]

Maybe I'm playing a different game, but the trailer that sparked the outrage seems to be completely missing from the actual gameplay. The only time I notice women in the game is when they let out a ridiculously overdone scream when dying.

The trailer made it seem like this would be a crazy ass game with robot women.

I dunno. I am really enjoying the game.

 

[petran79]

If the so called privileged that are oppressed because of 'equality' financially withdrew from this hobby these losers would cease to exist. I find it ironic we live in a society now where it is offensive to dress up like a Native Indian during Halloween, but European history can be black or brown washed without a single criticism. It is just a game, they scream, as they take over and implode very successful mediums.
.

Halloween simply pales when compared to Europe's Carnival celebration

 

[LaughingStock]

Maybe I'm playing a different game, but the trailer that sparked the outrage seems to be completely missing from the actual gameplay. The only time I notice women in the game is when they let out a ridiculously overdone scream when dying.

The trailer made it seem like this would be a crazy ass game with robot women.

I dunno. I am really enjoying the game.

The backlash forced them to tone down the wacky customization.

 

[Flapples]

It seems to me that everyone is forgetting the fact that they didn't even allow schwastickas in the game because it was an offensive symbol.

Also its not even the fact that there are women in the game, take a look at CoD WW2, 90 percent of the online population has a female character and people gave a lot less of a shit. Clearly DICE has fucked up on a larger scale then most people on the other side of the argument are giving credit for.

 

[Javthusiast]

They should live with the lower sales, just shut up and move on, instead of instigating the players even more to then risk lower sales for future games.

Learn from the terrible marketing EA and don't make the mistake in the future.

 

[Shai-Tan]

The problem with reactionary politics is it feeds off its own excesses. We could have a nuanced conversation about the tension between diversity and representation in history as presented in media but instead it's tribal sniping by a bunch of embarassing philistines (gamers, game developers, game journalists) who apparently never read about any of those issues beyond the facile nonsense on social media.

 

[Guileless]

Does the Swedish army currently deploy women as front-line combat troops? Serious question, I have no idea.

 

[Jon Neu]

Lol, I love how upset this is making people.

I'm having a blast playing the game in the meantime. Made better by the fact that all the regressive righties aren't playing.

I'm a leftist, but this game is SJW propaganda.

 

[xet72]

Trailer looking good.

 

[Enygger_Tzu]

Soyfield V.

 

[Zewp]

I'm a leftist, but this game is SJW propaganda.

LOL.

If you need to declare your identity to lend weight to your opinion, you're probably lying.

 

[NickFire]

You can tell an ideology is bat shit crazy when its proponents are given countless million dollars to create a product, and the proponents then suggest not buying the product because of the ideology.

Another example of lunacy:

Day 1 - if you say it's just a game you are promoting bigotry, hatred, intolerance, sexism, ism, ism, ism. And you should probably be banned for saying that.

Day 2 - same people - it's just a game, get over yourself.

 

[cryptoadam]

All of this could have been avoided if they just never announced in their marketing that women would be predominantly featured in the game. People could have just found out once they played MP that they could change genders. Sure there might have been some controversy behind it but not to this absurd level. People seem to forget that you could play an Asian woman as an American solider in last years COD WW2. Sure, there was some talk about it but no where the level BFV is getting yet COD is widely hated on the internet.

All in all, the lesson to take here is not to force a political agenda on a historical setting just because you feel the need to be progressive. It could set a dangerous precedent down the road if we keep changing history to accommodate your personal feelings. With that said I still look forward to playing the game on Christmas but this should be taken as a future lesson for other companies.

Yup EA screwed DICE on this one. EA went with this marketing angle, when they could of released the usual MP style BF trailer. EA also is the one that cut premium for GaaS which is why some of the content was cut to be strung along. And also EA pushed the game back and staggered the release with Premium/Delux/Standard releases. And then we can add in EA's MTX debacle with Star Wars that I am sure gamers still remember.

EA made bad decision after bad decision and DICE is paying for it, even though they created a really good BF game.

 

[strange headache]

Now we can talk about nonsense like "SJW agendas" until we're blue in the face but there's only one agenda here and that's delivering profits to shareholders on EA's part.

Yeah, about that...

 

[LittleBusters]

EA decided to give in to the SJW agenda and their stock has tanked as a result. Who would have thought the core EA audience were those dreaded white males!

 

[LittleBusters]

#Everyonesbf and yet the sales are down. It's funny how when they try to pander to SJWs they sell less copies.

Same thing happened to Arkane, they even met Anita to change their games and they bombed out the gate. No one cared about Emily and that asian/female duo in Prey.

Other games put female soldiers without issues but DICE had to make a big point and it backfired badly.

This is why I predict TLOU 2 will 'tank' relative to TLOU. There is only so much SJW crap you can shove down throats. There are plenty of other AAA epics coming to Playstation that hopefully won't have the SJW virus like 'Death Stranding', 'Ghosts of Tsushima' and 'Days Gone'.