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Girls - Season 2 - Sundays on HBO

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J

jtb

Banned
ThisWreckage said:
Two can play this game. If anything has been hyperbolic, it's been the praised directed toward her. Just because the show is part of pop culture that hardly means it is of quality. Other scripted shows like The Big Bang Theory are enormously popular. Are we supposed to assume that the show is of quality just because a lot of people treat it as background noise?

I know I'm going to get crucified for this, but Tarantino is a writer who was stunted due to overwhelming praise. Pulp Fiction had critics proclaiming him as the savior of cinema and he was viewed as some sort of trailblazer. He's proceeded to go up in his own ass further and further sans Jackie Brown because of that.
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Hey, I'll agree with you there. He's afraid to fail (probably because Jackie Brown was a "failure," despite it being one of his best) so he refuses to make anything that isn't a slight variation on his own formula for movies. I completely agree that Dunham (and really, any artist) needs time to grow, to experiment with their craft. I think there are plenty of writers/directors who evolve over time, even when they come out of the gate pretty strong, so maybe there's hope for Dunham. But it's obviously not going to happen if the critics are too busy shielding her from criticism rather than acknowledging some quite obvious truths about this season.
 
K

kingocfs

Member
This comment on AVC sums up my views on the last scene pretty well...

I saw the final Adam/Hannah scene as almost an inversion of the classic romantic comedy ending, in the sense that while they might very well end up together, his heroically coming to her rescue was specifically NOT the right thing for either character
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It was full of cheese but there was (or at least, there better be) a sad subtext there.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
jtb said:
Hey, I'll agree with you there. He's afraid to fail (probably because Jackie Brown was a "failure," despite it being one of his best) so he refuses to make anything that isn't a slight variation on his own formula for movies. I completely agree that Dunham (and really, any artist) needs time to grow, to experiment with their craft. I think there are plenty of writers/directors who evolve over time, even when they come out of the gate pretty strong, so maybe there's hope for Dunham. But it's obviously not going to happen if the critics are too busy shielding her from criticism rather than acknowledging some quite obvious truths about this season.
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Anyone who loses faith in Tarantino should watch the SNL he hosted. lol no seriously watch it he's so horrifyingly bad.

Anyway.

I liked a lot of this episode. I think they ran out of interesting things for Hannah to do, literally. She spent the entire episode in her apartment and I think was on screen for maybe like five minutes tops? But I can't just judge the show on her story, and everyone else had really great moments and arcs this season. Even though I may not have agreed with Adam's move at the end, I think it was still really well done and interesting place for his character to go. Even if it's toward a person who has done nothing but stand still all season. I was really hoping she'd actually write the whole book in a day. Even though she's saying something about people who want to do shit more than they actually do shit, and that's an interesting and salient point, it is not a dramatic one, nor one that is particularly fun to watch.

Watching all this hate pull Sepz into the whirlpool though, whoa. Let's not say things we can't take back.
 
I

iammeiam

Member
Tim the Wiz said:
Yeah, you guys nailed it. If they're saying otherwise, the critics are lazy. Enough to be praising a shallow rom-com reading of the show. Which is odd, because regardless of its embedded ambivalence, this was a pretty obviously disjointed season. Not sure if I'll be back for round three.
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The Time reviewer Cornballer linked a little while ago seems to be actually looking at things from the non-romantic angle, which I liked, but did highlight that the show staged everything like a romantic comedy at the end, and it's difficult to tell if Dunham meant it that way or not.
 
E

elkayes

Member
Mairu said:
You can't be serious.



This isn't hyperbolic, but criticizing season 2 for a lack of direction and poor story cohesiveness is?
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Alright not ALL the backlash. If you read my second to last post, I criticized the episodic nature of S2 myself. I was reacting to the idea that girls jumped the shark and dunham turned into an sup-par writer, which was the sentiment I got from a lot of posts in here.
 
T

Tim the Wiz

Banned
ThisWreckage said:
I know I'm going to get crucified for this, but Tarantino is a writer who was stunted due to overwhelming praise. Pulp Fiction had critics proclaiming him as the savior of cinema and he was viewed as some sort of trailblazer. He's proceeded to go up in his own ass further and further sans Jackie Brown because of that.
Click to expand...

In one of his recent interviews, Tarantino said that he did Jackie Brown after Pulp Fiction to prove he could do "that type of film" - by which, I assume he meant truly nuanced, character-focused cinema - if he wanted to. I honestly don't think he's chasing or been stunted by critical acclaim with his revenge fantasy movies; he's basically a film geek playing around with the genres he fell in love with growing up because he's gotten into a rare position where he can do exactly that, and stake out a place in cinematic history. If anything, I think he's more consumed by the money game of Hollywood: he was disconsolate after Grindhouse bombed, is still disappointed by Jackie Brown's box office reception, and was anxious about Basterds and Django making bank.
 
B

Blackhead

Redarse
The squealing glee on exhibition here at the idea that critics might find an episode of Girls below par is disgusting and frankly more than a little disturbing. the constant cheerleading for the show to fail had turned me away from this thread in the past few weeks. I wont even touch those Walt White comments with a 10ft pole. WTF
 
D

dave is ok

aztek is ok
Greyface said:
The squealing glee on exhibition here at the idea that critics might find an episode of Girls below par is disgusting and frankly more than a little disturbing. the constant cheerleading for the show to fail had turned me away from this thread in the past few weeks. I wont even touch those Walt White comments with a 10ft pole. WTF
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We're not hoping for the show to fail. The show has failed. We're hoping critics actually notice this one.
 
turnbuckle

turnbuckle

Member
Astaereth said:
I think people for some reason get hung up on the show's intentions. "How can the show expect me to like this character when she's so selfish?" "Am I supposed to think it's a good thing that Marnie and Charlie are back together?" The show is fiercely ambivalent about everything, though--it's good for Marnie to get back together with Charlie because she'll stop self-destructing (hopefully), but it's also bad because she's doing it for the wrong reasons and he won't make her happy (just like in Season 1, she'll just feel stifled again). Likewise, Adam and Hannah at the end is a triumphant moment and an absolute failure for both of them.

Case in point, a lot of reviewers seem to take Shoshanna's reasoning for breaking up with Ray at face value, when the show clearly intends you to question it. She's not breaking up with Ray because he's too dark/unambitious/adult, except in the vaguest sense of that last one--she's simply realized (or felt) that she doesn't yet want that storybook settle down romance (the one Marnie talks about with Charlie) that she used to want, what she really wants is to make out with that guy over there right now. She can't come out and admit it, but the show wants you to understand--and the show is ambiguous about whether Shosh growing up is good or bad. Good because she's progressing into adulthood; bad because she's progressing into the adulthood Girls has been chronicling, one filled with dishonesty, pain, betrayal, aimlessness, bad choices, ridiculous sex.

Overall I feel like people come away from the show having only seen (or believed or processed) half of it, and most people are getting different halves.

(Which is not to say that I'm seeing all of it. But there you go. And no, I'm not high.)
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I think both your posts were good. I haven't been able to figure out what makes me really like the show so much when so many others do not. I know it's not because they have bad taste and I don't think I tend to like things that are terrible either; I'm not hate watching or watching it ironically. I just like it.

I don't care that the last scene was overly cheesy, Adam is over the top and fully invested or completely divested in things - insecure and intensely confident at the same time. He can pick up something and put all of his focus onto that thing and just drop it like nothing later - just like his alcoholism that he snubbed out before he even turned 18 and the brief relapse at the party. I wouldn't be surprised if the first episode of season 3 has him fisting the woman he's been seeing while Hannah issues another restraining order for him breaking down her door. I wouldn't be surprised if they're back in to their relationship either.
 
M

Mairu

Member
Is it even realistic for a book deal to be given out with the expectation that an entire novel will be complete in only a month?
 
F

Frost_Ace

Member
Poor Ray is the only one alone now. :(

Anyway, I liked the ep but this season felt really void, hope we can have a more plot-driven season next year since they have more episodes.
 
T

Tim the Wiz

Banned
Mairu said:
Is it even realistic for a book deal to be given out with the expectation that an entire novel will be complete in only a month?
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Well, it was an e-book. Those can typically be quite short. (And Hannah writes non-fiction essays, right? A collection of those for a lit magazine trying to up its online presence would be even shorter than a novella-sized novel.) I thought they might be seeding a content mill scam a la the real life James Frey's publishing sweatshop, but I guess they're playing it straight. If so, then yes, perhaps the deadline is insane, but sadly it's not unrealistic given the pressures of today's online-driven publishing industry. It's why you see pros like Fareed Zakaria slip up when it comes to plagiarism in the next-door world of journalism.
 
I

inm8num2

Member
That Adam kicking down the door thing was terrible. It put a cap on the season's numerous fantasies that Dunham vicariously lived out through Hannah.
 
-COOLIO-

-COOLIO-

The Everyman
i made it halfway into episode 4. i cant do it anymore. hannah is the most perfectly unwatchable character. the thing about watching bad guys is you know they'll get their comeuppance, but it sounds like she gets great job and an amazing doctor boyfriend at the end of this season and i cant stand to watch a person like this get rewarded like that.

any good 30 minute hbo shows i can switch to?
 
T

trab pu kcip

Member
I just watched the episode. I want a boyfriend like adam, he's so awesome.
anyone else is acting like a fucking creep/asshole though.
is it just me or do a lot of the relationship developments seem weirdly forced and completely unreasonable?
 
B

BertramCooper

Banned
trab pu kcip said:
I just watched the episode. I want a boyfriend like adam, he's so awesome.
anyone else is acting like a fucking creep/asshole though.
is it just me or do a lot of the relationship developements seem weirdly forced and completely unreasonable?
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0046_i9p5.gif
 
Tokubetsu

Tokubetsu

Member
Pretty sure the actress who plays Jessa was pregnant irl very recently too so it's believeable. She was in/on VICE and talking about it a month or two ago. When did they film this season? Late last summer?
 
J

Jugendstil

Member
I watched both seasons this weekend and overall am feeling kind of indifferent to the show. I don't think its as great as its lauded to be but I don't think its bad either (I wouldn't have watched it so fast otherwise).

I thought the Salon write-up of the season finale was pretty dead on. The show is at its best when its funny, not when all of the characters are having their assorted self-involved meltdowns.

I'm glad I watched it, but I'm really glad I saw it on HBO Go and didn't buy it on DVD or Bluray. It doesn't feel worth owning.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Tokubetsu said:
Pretty sure the actress who plays Jessa was pregnant irl very recently too so it's believeable. She was in/on VICE and talking about it a month or two ago. When did they film this season? Late last summer?
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Last spring, while season 1 was airing.
 
M

MG310

Member
It would make sense given that most of the characters seem to repeat the same mistakes over and over again - so Jessa will have a baby and proceed to be the same bad parent that her father was.
 
M

Mudkips

Banned
Just finished hate watching the last episode. Holy shit was it bad.

Hannah is a barely-functioning psychotic princess, and she's back with Adam - her barely-sane, shirtless enabler of a boyfriend.

Marnie and Charlie have convinced themselves to repeat their failed relationship. Charlie has money, so Marnie cue Marnie quitting her hostess job in 3...2... .

Jessa is off in her own world doing who-knows-what while running from consequences.

Shoshanna is back to being a completely manic chatterbox, but she's no longer a virgin so with that wall torn down she's also going to be manic about sleeping around until oopsie, preggers scare! Totes callback to season 1 right guys?

Ray told his boss he didn't want to be like him, yet only 8 seconds later he agrees to be him at the new location, and to take over the business from him once he croaks (which will be at whatever time is convenient).

Hannah's dad and the former burn out who cut Hannah's hair are literally the only two characters that have progressed in any way. And they both did it by telling Hannah to fuck off. Every other fucking character has reverted to where they were in S01E01. Hell, we fucking Had Jessa cry "I'm the baby!" to her dad while on a fucking swing set, and we have Hannah getting nostalgic about her dad cleaning up broken glass for her. These characters revel in acting like children. They're like emotional Benjamin Buttons.
 
V

Van Owen

Banned
On the plus side, there is a leaked shiri appleby cellphone pic where you can see more of her bod than you saw in any ep of Girls.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Tim the Wiz said:
Well, it was an e-book. Those can typically be quite short. (And Hannah writes non-fiction essays, right? A collection of those for a lit magazine trying to up its online presence would be even shorter than a novella-sized novel.) I thought they might be seeding a content mill scam a la the real life James Frey's publishing sweatshop, but I guess they're playing it straight. If so, then yes, perhaps the deadline is insane, but sadly it's not unrealistic given the pressures of today's online-driven publishing industry. It's why you see pros like Fareed Zakaria slip up when it comes to plagiarism in the next-door world of journalism.
Click to expand...

What's this? I'm only aware of him falsifying and exaggerating his life for that memoir.

iammeiam said:
The Time reviewer Cornballer linked a little while ago seems to be actually looking at things from the non-romantic angle, which I liked, but did highlight that the show staged everything like a romantic comedy at the end, and it's difficult to tell if Dunham meant it that way or not.
Click to expand...

I have a hard time seeing any evidence within the show that Adam and Hannah's reunion was not supposed to come across as heroic, or that the show itself is indicating any higher layers. It leaves any other interpretation up to the viewers to such a degree that it feels wrong to give the show credit for any of it.

If I'm feeling real charitable, I could maybe argue that this finale wants us to see the 'hidden reverse' of the romantic pairings, and how self-destructive or parasitic they are, but even that feels off considering some episodes are very overtly exploring those issues. I'm not sure you can have it both ways. It starts feeling like Girls is a faux-intellectual exercise in saying everything and nothing at once, and letting the very existence of external conversations about the show give it meaning.
 
B

B For Bendetta

Member
I'm going to be optimistic and hope that this is setting the stage for a real wake up call in season 3 for a lot of these characters. Hopefully when they realize they are all making the same mistakes they will be forced to confront their own flaws, and hopefully resolve these adversities by growing in a real way and not resorting to cynicism. On the other hand, some other shows (and books and movies) are largely successful simply because of their characters' complete inability to correct their own errors (Tony Soprano anyone?) Of course, there has to be some redeeming qualities and the real opportunity to change for this to be successful, which I'm not convinced has been established in any of the characters on the show.
 
B

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
Dan said:
If I'm feeling real charitable, I could maybe argue that this finale wants us to see the 'hidden reverse' of the romantic pairings, and how self-destructive or parasitic they are, but even that feels off considering some episodes are very overtly exploring those issues. I'm not sure you can have it both ways. It starts feeling like Girls is a faux-intellectual exercise in saying everything and nothing at once, and letting the very existence of external conversations about the show give it meaning.
Click to expand...

I got this vibe strongly with Marnie and Charlies thread. Adam and Hannah, tonally, really felt off.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
B For Bendetta said:
I'm going to be optimistic and hope that this is setting the stage for a real wake up call in season 3 for a lot of these characters. Hopefully when they realize they are all making the same mistakes they will be forced to confront their own flaws, and hopefully resolve these adversities by growing in a real way and not resorting to cynicism.
Click to expand...

I thought that's what season 2 was supposed to be about...
 
T

Timbuktu

Member
B For Bendetta said:
I'm going to be optimistic and hope that this is setting the stage for a real wake up call in season 3 for a lot of these characters.
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I'm not sure if that will be S3, if growing up also means growing apart most of these characters. They are hardly even a group now, they hardly get together, don't even like each other and even all the coupling in that finale feel "off". If we can't drop any of the main six, i don't if there is a way to stop them drifting now without feeling contrived. You always know that guest stars are always only going to be in their lives for an episode or two. I thought maybe there was supposed to a relationship we needed to root for would have been between Hannah and Marnie this season. With that one line we get to see on the laptop of hannah's writing, it would have been much better if we are really sorry to see old friendships die, but right now i have no idea why they were ever even friends.
 
B

B For Bendetta

Member
Dan said:
I thought that's what season 2 was supposed to be about...
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Me too, but maybe we were wrong. Maybe we need the same mistakes to be repeated to learn from them. Maybe they are characters who will never learn from repeating their same mistakes. Season 3 should reveal which are which


Then again maybe the show is shallow and sentimental. Just trying to be optimistic
 
P

-Pyromaniac-

Member
trab pu kcip said:
I just watched the episode. I want a boyfriend like adam, he's so awesome.
anyone else is acting like a fucking creep/asshole though.
is it just me or do a lot of the relationship developments seem weirdly forced and completely unreasonable?
Click to expand...
I only feel like that for charlie/marnie. How terrible is that relationship lol.
 
X

xenist

Member
Oh wow, the "vicarious" argument again. Are you people watching King Of Queens by mistake?

I'm outta here. I'm anticipating the train wreck like discussion for next season with bated breath though.
 
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