-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Hearthstone |OT5| Corrupted Deeprock Salt
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
The real problem is that Blizzard keeps destroying every single deck where skill is required to pilot the deck successfully. This leads us with a game where skill is almost completely not needed and the game is practically a pachinko machine where luck is 90% or even 100% of the game. Older high level players like Firebat, Kolento, Lifecoach(?) recognize how bad this is (for them) because they were high level thanks to game knowledge and skill but when skill is no longer involved at all then there is no longer any real competitive aspect to the game.
They could just rotate sets out from standard ladder to incentivize people to buy new cards, power level aside.
Can you imagine if the current standard ladder didn't have classic cards? Hunter would probably be dead without leper gnome, abusive, knife juggler, companion/skill command/highmane etc... Patron would never have existed without warsong, battle rage, inner rage etc...Current paladin wouldn't have Tirion, Juggler, consecrate, truesilver, aldors, you would be forced to play 2nd rate cards like argent lance as creature removal. Warlock wouldn't have giants, and probably be playable only in a demonlock form. Druid only ramp would be the aspirant, no lore nor claw.
Pally would probably still be the best deck in the game because of it having minibot, muster, murloc knight, shredder, Dr. 6 and Dr.7
here you go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDZD7HkZHuo
for some reason remember the video longer, is just 2.5 min
in some moment they will have to do some form or formats, HS cant grow infinitely, new players will get more and more on the back foot the more expansions are released, Magic the gathering does this amazingly well, Blizzard should make some "standard" format, its also great for pack sales. Everybody wins, also Tournament scene is always fresh.
MonorailCat
Member
After totally butchering Warsong Commander I lost hope of any competence in the HS design team. Either they are stupid or they just don't give a fuck.
Was a fan since closed beta, but it's getting clearer and clearer that Blizzard is happy with the state HS is in now: zero complexity and thought required.
I mean just look at the new Kripp Video. Secret Pally has a Winrate of 51% .. when played by BOTS. Zero skill required.
The wasted potential of HS ist just so frustrating. It makes me sad.
Was a fan since closed beta, but it's getting clearer and clearer that Blizzard is happy with the state HS is in now: zero complexity and thought required.
I mean just look at the new Kripp Video. Secret Pally has a Winrate of 51% .. when played by BOTS. Zero skill required.
The wasted potential of HS ist just so frustrating. It makes me sad.
Dr 6 with 2 secrets EleGiggle
Avenge and competitive spirit, it's still two decent secrets, but yeah i guess it would be so much worse. Still better than any other 6 drop in the game.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Awsome, just had some druid turn 2 innervate x2 ET. And even though I had sap and he only reduced 2 cards, he managed to get ahead due to aspirant and wild growth and somehow getting lucky enough to get dr. boom on like turn 5. So I wasn't thrilled about that match, but then I queued into him again and he got rekt even off coin+aspirant going uncontested.
Thats what happen when you have stat by stat the best minion on each point of the curve available, even a monkey can pilot that.
Undertaker was frustrating to play against. It often gained both Attack and Health stats significantly above those of other inexpensive minions very early in the game. With this change, we expect Undertaker will still be better than other 1-Mana minions when played in a deck with a Deathrattle theme, but more likely to die in combat against other minions.
EleGiggle NEW SPAM EleGiggle
I can't really think of anything more damning than the bot win percentages that got posted recently.
Trigger_happy
Member
You know that meta is fucked when "fuck this game I'm done" post is on the front page.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I'm gonna post my latest refined rogue deck. I am currently 75% winrate in legend, climbing from rank 3300ish to 526 (there are 10k+ legend so top 5% of legend rank atm). It is an oil deck with more reliance on tempo swings than big burst combos. Across all variants I am 26-13 (67%) but as I refined the list the winrate grew and I am currently 15-5 (75%). I have not lost a single paladin match out of 8.
I think the deck is quite difficult to play. Takes skill. Doesn't rely on RNG. All those complaints that people say doesn't exist in the game basically. The sole card that has RNG is sword oil and you play that in a way that it is a non-factor most of the time anyway.
Just gonna warn you ahead of time, you'll probably need to learn this deck (unless you're familiar with oil rogue already then you have a leg up) before you start seeing results. While true with most decks, I think rogue is a bit harder due to more complicated mulligan choices, and utilizing all your mana effectively and efficiently in a way that uses combo meaningfully.
I guess I can give tips for secret paladin specifically. You generally want backstabs, autobarber, fan of knives, si7 agent, and blade flurry (if you already have another combo piece like deadly poison or even an autobarber is usually good enough because of the amount of 2 hp minions they run). I also tend to keep preparation often because the match often turns on your ability to control the board and even prepping out an eviscerate (or combo'd with a turn 4 VT) is often going let you easily slide into a win in the mid game.
Your goal is to get control of the board by turns 4-7, removing their minions to play around blessing of kings. Save 1 sap for MC #1 and 1 sap for tirion if possible. If you're ahead for the MC turn, you probably have won. You can race the paladin for a win, especially with assassin's blade, sword oil, and blade flurry. Going face is effective because they likely only run tirion (a few do run a single sludge belcher).
The swing turns you get will likely involve backstab, si7 agent, and blade flurry. So if you're behind and things are looking dire in the early game, taking a little bit more damage is okay because the deck doesn't have burst outside of truesilver and BOK. Getting that swing turn is worth the loss in hp from delaying in removing a minion or two but not getting initiative in the same turn.
I've also learned over time from painful lessons that you probably do not want to remove shredder, even if you like a 3/3 to clean up the deathrattle. Sap it (if your board is strong enough to ignore MC) or let it trade into your minions (dread corsair for example). On the other hand, drake + backstab is worth it.
I think the deck is quite difficult to play. Takes skill. Doesn't rely on RNG. All those complaints that people say doesn't exist in the game basically. The sole card that has RNG is sword oil and you play that in a way that it is a non-factor most of the time anyway.
Just gonna warn you ahead of time, you'll probably need to learn this deck (unless you're familiar with oil rogue already then you have a leg up) before you start seeing results. While true with most decks, I think rogue is a bit harder due to more complicated mulligan choices, and utilizing all your mana effectively and efficiently in a way that uses combo meaningfully.
I guess I can give tips for secret paladin specifically. You generally want backstabs, autobarber, fan of knives, si7 agent, and blade flurry (if you already have another combo piece like deadly poison or even an autobarber is usually good enough because of the amount of 2 hp minions they run). I also tend to keep preparation often because the match often turns on your ability to control the board and even prepping out an eviscerate (or combo'd with a turn 4 VT) is often going let you easily slide into a win in the mid game.
Your goal is to get control of the board by turns 4-7, removing their minions to play around blessing of kings. Save 1 sap for MC #1 and 1 sap for tirion if possible. If you're ahead for the MC turn, you probably have won. You can race the paladin for a win, especially with assassin's blade, sword oil, and blade flurry. Going face is effective because they likely only run tirion (a few do run a single sludge belcher).
The swing turns you get will likely involve backstab, si7 agent, and blade flurry. So if you're behind and things are looking dire in the early game, taking a little bit more damage is okay because the deck doesn't have burst outside of truesilver and BOK. Getting that swing turn is worth the loss in hp from delaying in removing a minion or two but not getting initiative in the same turn.
I've also learned over time from painful lessons that you probably do not want to remove shredder, even if you like a 3/3 to clean up the deathrattle. Sap it (if your board is strong enough to ignore MC) or let it trade into your minions (dread corsair for example). On the other hand, drake + backstab is worth it.
Wow surprised of no Shredders, why you dislike it?, is sticky and helps trade for board control that is your goal.
Dread corsair is also interesting, can you make it a 0-1 cost constant enough?.
Cool list for sure, will try it long time dont try Rogue, but Im seeing it more right now in ladder, probably because iis performing well at worlds...but thats the tradicional oil rogue list.
Dread corsair is also interesting, can you make it a 0-1 cost constant enough?.
Cool list for sure, will try it long time dont try Rogue, but Im seeing it more right now in ladder, probably because iis performing well at worlds...but thats the tradicional oil rogue list.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I know shredder is a good card and I have ran it alot of oil rogue but I think VT is a good card too. I also tend to always get ancient watchers and other bad cards off shredder. I prefer consistency and VT is actually quite good against paladin specifically so it is a bit targetted towards that. Getting a turn 4 violet teacher, plus prep and sap or eviscerate is so much stronger than shredder + the same 2 cards (also backstab). I've kind of weened a bit off shredder on a couple of my decks tbh. Like the tempo mage list I used to hit legend ran water elementals over shredder.
As for dread corsair, yeah I often get it very cheap. Its also not bad on turn 3 since you'll often hero power on turn 2 and they might not have anything to remove so a 3 mana 3/3 taunt isn't bad at all. Then on turn 4 you can autobarber + corsair for 2, also pretty strong. Assassin's blade or deadly poison drops it to 1 cost. And autobarber + deadly poison or assassin's blade makes it free (so turn 3 autobarber + deadly poison, remove a 4hp or less minion, and get a 3/2 + 3/3... so strong).
I like the synergies it brings to the deck, especially when you assassin's blade and deadly poison on turn 6, and also play a 3/3. I think it is a pretty underrated card tbh.
edit:
Also to note is that the deck runs very little healing. I think this is appropriate for a more tempo focused rogue deck. And I don't even think healbot is all that great in this meta anyway. Usually the 8 hp does nothing if I am being rampaged down by paladin. While its great against face hunter, paladin has too much renewable damage. ERF's role is as much to re-inforce a good minion sticking around as it is to heal yourself.
There are still some high skill level decks in the game:
Control Warrior
Freeze Mage
Oil Rogue
Handlock
Control Priest
Grim Patron deck
Problem is that even with a high skill level you will still be just about as good as an average player playing Secret Paladin. It takes far more skill to play against Secret Paladin than it does to pilot it.
Control Warrior
Freeze Mage
Oil Rogue
Handlock
Control Priest
Grim Patron deck
Problem is that even with a high skill level you will still be just about as good as an average player playing Secret Paladin. It takes far more skill to play against Secret Paladin than it does to pilot it.
call_kotaku
Member
secret paladin is quite hard
sometimes you don't pay attention and play muster after you have redemption
just kidding you get to play shredder next turn
sometimes you don't pay attention and play muster after you have redemption
just kidding you get to play shredder next turn
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Chances are they will remove at least one of the guys, unless avenge completely wrecks them. So it is usually very bad.
Most Secret Paladins run one copy of Redemption so usually if they put down a Secret then play Muster, it's usually either Avenge or Competitive Spirit. It can be Noble Sacrifice as well. For something like Control Warrior, dealing with that is a huge nuisance if you don't already have an Armorsmith in play.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Yeah, poor warriors can't just face smash or taskmaster their way to a win.
Since this is text and doesn't convey tone, I have no problem with that being a fact.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Sure just add me on EU or US Majiebeast#1311. Do say which so i know what to log.
Also WTF Roberta Ross.
Thanks, sent a request on US.
If Patron wasn't nerfed we'd just be whining about how Patron is still dominating the meta. I don't agree with the severity of the nerf but don't mistake getting rid of one problem as doing nothing at all.
Blizzard did a horrible work with the warsong nerf destroying a basic card less tolls to new players...not much about the deck, the deck is still viable.
Patron dominated the tournament meta but at least it was a deck worthy of being played competitively. It wasn't actually very common outside of legend and most rank 5 and lower players were literal free wins if you knew how to play against the deck. On the flipside its competitive winrate was never that high, Midrange Hunter in its prime for example was consistently way stronger. The actual issue was Patron not having a single really bad matchup, which could have been fixed by introducing soft counters and if necessary an Icefrog-style slap-on-the-wrist nerf like making Frothing a 2/3.
Anyway I think in hindsight anyone should see that this steaming pile of garbage meta was better off being contained by Patron.
irfaanator
Banned
so all rogues next ladder right
Nice, free wins.
MrPing1000
Member
made it to rank 10 for the first time hooray. Still ain't spent any money, still ain't got any expansion stuff as my arena record is err shit.
quackamole
Member
So damn sick of this shitty meta full of cancer aggro and secret paladin, even the god damned casual mode is full of the same ladder meta decks. At this point I wouldn't mind blizzard doing a classic card only mode. I had way more fun playing HS when dropping a classic yeti at turn four is the big deal, compared to the shit game it has turned into now.
Smooth Operator
Member
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Damn, looks like Kripp watched too much of that Bob Ross stream