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[Steel]

So we shouldn't criticize positions? Should we always say "it's fine, it's your opinion" when it could endanger progress and human rights?

No. Start by criticizing their positions. Don't assume you know their positions, ask them. Then criticize. The problem is people just jump straight to "you're an idiot/racist" instead of explaining why they're an idiot(or even racist depending on what they respond to questions with). Which just ends with the person thinking that they're right and they were unjustly attacked.

 

[SodiumBenzoate]

this is most gaffers, is it? keep telling yourself that.

My personal opion has nothing to do with this. I am talking about why the candidate who appealed to nativist and racist attitudes won, and how to prevent this in the future. No one gives a shit about your (of GAF as a whole)'s personal opinions because it's 100% clear the "GAF" demograpic did not determine this election.

If we as non-bigots, double down on the strategy that just resulted in President Trump, it will result in an 8-year President Trump. Not sure how else to articulate that.

 

[LoserMakesGood]

What's that saying?

You can lead a horse to water, but sometimes the horse will bite off its own tongue instead.

I am amazed that I AM ALWAYS STILL AMAZED at how little self awareness Republicans have, none, zero, nadda, zilch, and they all seem to have the memory of a goldfish too

 

[Kthulhu]

This election has convinced me that people have no idea how dangerous an idiot with power is.

And they won't learn. They didn't learn in 2000 or 2004 and they won't now.

 

[Zapages]

..is this a joke because Trump has said countless times how he supports Israel and that they're our only ally in the middle east??

I wish, I was kidding... Hell, one of them is my cousin who is a doctor... Actually the connection that I make is that most of my Muslim doctor friends supported Trump, Stein or Johnson. I am not kidding.

All the folks below are Muslims that I know. So yes I was freakin out. But I keep my political views private.

They were freakin out why he did not vote for Trump below... :| :|

 

[Platy]

If liberals like most GAFfers can't at least explain why people like this exist, they will forever be marginalized and destined to lose election after election.
Not justify or excuse, but at least explain.

We talk about the reason people like this exist in every thread about racism and sexism ... it is called Institutionalized racism that leads to internalized racism. Change racism to sexism/xenophobia when applicable

 

[Reg]

you chose poorly.

 

[LCGeek]

Well, yeah, these people are definitely ignorant and will soon find out how much they fucked up.

I hope you aren't relying on the fact they might reflect on their actions honestly and not deflect it to others.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Gotta double down on every minority who had issues with Clinton they couldn't overcome (and Trump comparatively had a solution for) being a self-hating dumbass and not a vital campaign lesson to be learned from.

Classy move posting her photo too to literally go on about her being too white to look like a 'real' Muslim too. Fucking hell, this is literally the dumbest takeaway you can have from the shockingly higher-than-expected minority vote for Trump.

 

[Spinluck]

You fucking idiot.

Like does she realize the Clinton Foundation used that money to save millions of people's lives in Africa with AIDS? You know what, one consolation from this election is the fucking Clinton Foundation will continue to be an amazing charity and won't have to be shut down because of idiots like this.

I think the Clinton Foundation took a big hit with the Haiti thing.

I myself was never really sure about what happened with that.

 

[mStudios]

I think the Clinton Foundation took a big hit with the Haiti thing.

I myself was never really sure about what happened with that.

Simple, they took the money and didn't do anything for Haiti. I posted the video before, but here is it again

https://youtu.be/4PeO0SfCw5s

 

[Steel]

I hope you aren't relying on the fact they might reflect on their actions honestly and not deflect it to others.

Trump's presidency ending up in an inevitable dumpster fire will also inevitably flip votes. That being said, yeah this type of person will switch their vote in the next election when the rivers aren't magically filled with milk and honey.

 

[yanipheonu]

But I trust the United States and don’t buy the political hyperbole — agenda-driven identity politics of its own — that demonized Trump and his supporters

This is really naive.

 

[triplestation]

shes just one of those weird anomalies you hear of once in a while

 

[Steel]

This is really naive.

It's also a common pseudo-intellectual stance where people take skepticism to mean that anything like that must instantly be hyperbole not based in reality.

shes just one of those weird anomalies you hear of once in a while

Trump got more of the minority vote than Romney(yes, that has my jaw on the floor too), it's not a complete anomaly.

 

[TyphoonStruggle]

If you label the entirety of Trumps electorate as racists, etc. than you will continue to lose.

How did these racists vote for Obama in 2012 then vote for Trump in 2016?

By instantly labeling them as racists, you completely disregard why these people voted for Trump. How does this not get through your thick skulls. People lost hope in the Democrats because they fucked up big time. People wanted change; the Republicans were the only ones that offered it.

 

[broncobuster]

She says she doesn't buy into agenda-driven politics demonizing Trump in the same paragraph she used agenda-driven politics to demonize Hillary...?

 

[SodiumBenzoate]

We talk about the reason people like this exist in every thread about racism and sexism ... it is called Institutionalized racism that leads to internalized racism. Change racism to sexism/xenophobia when applicable

Let me know when educating and truly correcting something as ingrained and institutional as this (disgusting) problem is easier to fix than what Obama did in '08 and '12, which was (in retrospect) overwhelming the racism with rhetoric, charisma, and personal appeals.

How many years of R governance are you willing to accept because the reasons Dems win elections are shallow and not addressing the real problems? How many millions of people are going to lose their health insurance? What about the supreme court? What about the inevibility of the Ryan budget and everything it willl destroy?

post edit: I'm geuss I'm just fed up with the attitude of "fuck these people who voted for trump, let's not even to try to understand why they did so" like the demographic and political problems in this country will magically solve themselves. That's as naive as it gets. Unless you are satisfied with continuing to lose elections while claiming the moral high ground, which I guess is your prerogative.

 

[MUnited83]

Are you kidding me? Like the first 4 posts you have people telling her shes a fucking idiot. Later you have another poster saying shes practically white looking.

That's not just opinions, thats lashing out.

She voted for Trump because she thought his whole platform was fake and he was sincere one time. Yes, she's an idiot.

If you label the entirety of Drumpfs electorate as racists, etc. than you will continue to lose.

How did these racists vote for Obama in 2012 then vote for Drumpf in 2016?

By instantly labeling them as racists, you completely disregard why these people voted for Drumpf. How does this not get through your thick skulls. People lost hope in the Democrats because they fucked up big time. People wanted change; the Republicans were the only ones that offered it.

Trump supporters don't give a single shit that people in the internet are calling them racists.

 

[Ithil]

He's not going to do anything he says he will politically. Only two days in and that's clear. He's a TV show host.

He might do fuck all, but he's filling the white house with people who will do a lot of harm. Have you seen his cabinet shortlist, or the sorts of people on his transition team?

 

[Zapages]

Gotta double down on every minority who had issues with Clinton they couldn't overcome (and Trump comparatively had a solution for) being a self-hating dumbass and not a vital campaign lesson to be learned from.

Classy move posting her photo too to literally go on about her being too white to look like a 'real' Muslim too. Fucking hell, this is literally the dumbest takeaway you can have from the shockingly higher-than-expected minority vote for Trump.

Most fair skinned Muslim don't get as racially profiled as compared to folks who are from Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, or compared to someone who looks "stereotypical" Muslim. This is all occurs until hear your name... Then the profiling begins.

Its really sad. Also I am saying this as Pakistani descent American Muslim... Its the sad reality that we are living in... I am afraid to leave the country or be placed in a concentration camp or register due to my religion.. This infringes on everything why our parents came to the USA in the first place for a better life.

You know what I am afraid employers will now start once again make it harder for Muslims to get jobs. I know horror stories that my friends parents went through due to 9/11. These are scary times.

I know some of my second or third cousin apart named their children something like Caucasian/generic for their children.

AKA: Shaan = Sean; Sabrina, Adam ; Omar ; Jaan = John/Jon ; etc ; Sonia ;

 

[Loudninja]

I really do get it, Trump stuff is consider hyperbole stuff he said himself but Hillary stuff is fact?

 

[Deleted member 80556]

No. Start by criticizing their positions. Don't assume you know their positions, ask them. Then criticize. The problem is people just jump straight to "you're an idiot/racist" instead of explaining why they're an idiot(or even racist depending on what they respond to questions with). Which just ends with the person thinking that they're right and they were unjustly attacked.

Many do that. Just because others immediately attack doesn't mean everyone on the left spectrum of political ideologies is an intolerant asshole.

Which, heh, is precisely what people are trying to argue about Trump supporters. That they're not all racists and xenophobes. Just don't expect positions to go unchallenged, it's not anyone's fault that people read message board posts with the most aggressive tone possible and take it as a personal attack rather than an attempt to educate and generate discussion.

 

[Steel]

Many do that. Just because others immediately attack doesn't mean everyone on the left spectrum of political ideologies is an intolerant asshole.

Which, heh, is precisely what people are trying to argue about Trump supporters. That they're not all racists and xenophobes.

I know not everyone does that, I do that myself, but there's enough that do to drive away every person that tries to start a conversation on the matter.

That they're not all racists and xenophobes. Just don't expect positions to go unchallenged, it's not anyone's fault that people read message board posts with the most aggressive tone possible and take it as a personal attack rather than an attempt to educate and generate discussion.

I agree.

 

[Sami+]

As an Arab, former Muslim, and first generation Syrian American all I'm getting from this are overwhelming Uncle Tom vibes.

Thanks, traitor.

 

[Codeblue]

Thanks for selling the rest of us out!

 

[RustyNails]

Asra Nomani? lol

She's big in the Islamophobia network. How the fuck is this news?

Bill Maher and Fox News’s Muslim feminism: How Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Asra Nomani embrace the soft Islamophobia of Western expectations

In recent years, some in the American Muslim community have criticized Nomani for feeding into the stereotypes and prejudices they face. Tapped as an expert witness for Peter King’s controversial House hearings on “radicalization” within that community, she wrote in the Washington Post: “It’s about time.” In that paper two years later, she made the case that, in light of the 2013 attacks on the Boston Marathon, Muslims should admit that they “have a problem,” an early indication of which, in her view, is an increased use of religious expressions like the Arabic version of “God willing.”

As is characteristic of the fanaticism she so loathes, though, Nomani, too, bristles at dissent. In a Washington Post Op-Ed earlier this year, she dismissed her detractors with the neologism “honor brigade,” saying they care not about her message of feminist reform but about bullying her into silence — a claim she repeated in April in Time, after Duke University rescinded, and then re-extended, a speaking invitation. Some who once supported her progressive program have, more recently, found themselves at odds with her positions. When Duke professor Omid Safi wrote about her drift in the direction of Islamophobia, she accused him of instigating a lynch mob of profanity-laced attacks that even targeted her child. When author Reza Aslan identified the oddity of Islam-bashing Bill Maher’s enthusiasm for her work, she played the gender card and charged Aslan with disrespecting women.

Here's another! Asra Nomani has defended NYPD spying on Muslims and Islamophobic rhetoric in the election cycle

“I’m relieved that our country’s largest police agency was monitoring our Muslim community as closely as the reports indicate. For the longest time I have worried that our sense of political correctness has kept us from sensible law-enforcement strategies that look at Muslims, mosques, and Islamic organizations.”

This year, I say, too: monitor me. Indeed, just as we need to track the Colombian community for drug trafficking and the Ku Klux Klan for white extremists, I believe we should monitor the Muslim community because we sure don’t police ourselves enough.

She's a piece of shit, and no different than that Muslims for Trump guy. She equated members of Islamic faith to drug traffickers and KKK.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Can't agree with the good perspective angle. She seems pretty dumb through and through. She's basically one of those people racists summon like pokemon to prove their views aren't racist because this one Muslim agrees.

" I reject pretty much everything he said but I still voted for him"

Yup

 

[Nanashrew]

If you label the entirety of Trumps electorate as racists, etc. than you will continue to lose.

How did these racists vote for Obama in 2012 then vote for Trump in 2016?

By instantly labeling them as racists, you completely disregard why these people voted for Trump. How does this not get through your thick skulls. People lost hope in the Democrats because they fucked up big time. People wanted change; the Republicans were the only ones that offered it.

Not all are racist, but they've also shown racism isn't some kind of deal breaker. End of.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

I know not everyone does that, I do that myself, but there's enough that do to drive away every person that tries to start a conversation on the matter.

Just like there's enough of that stuff on the other side to kill any conversation as well.

Clinton was not wrong when she said that many of Trump supporters are knowingly being racists and sexists and xenophobes. You can't also discuss with them, despite your best attempts.

We're on an never ending cycle. And I don't understand why the losers have to take the high road considering all the Trump campaign was about throwing the lowest of punches with no accountability. Even minorities, it's asking them "just have even more patience, they'll eventually hear you!". It's unacceptable. (BTW, I'm not saying you're saying minorities should coddle racists, but just pointing out it's a vibe I've been feeling from these past days)

EDIT: And geez, why am I not surprised she's an islamophobe :/

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Most fair skinned Muslim don't get as racially profiled as compared to folks who are from Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, or compared to someone who looks "stereotypical" Muslim.

Its really sad. Also I am saying this as Pakistani descent American Muslim... Its the sad reality that we are living in... I am afraid to leave the country or be placed in a concentration camp or register due to my religion.. This infringes on everything why our parents came to the USA in the first place for a better life.

You know what I am afraid employers will now start once again make it harder for Muslims to get jobs. I know horror stories that my friends parents went through due to 9/11. These are scary times.

I get the racial profiling argument with fairer skinned people getting off lighter than darker skinned ones, but the way it was brought up in this thread was just a smug, self-satisfied attempt to handwave a misguided viewpoint as psuedo-privledge or whatever.

Trump will be fucking awful for American Muslims. I think your fear is completely well founded, even if it takes awhile to see just how down this rabbit hole can go.

But calling the ones who voted for them idiots or having internalised racism or whatever now completely fucking useless sociology term nobody in the real world uses achieves fuck all if dems want their next candidate to rally minorities around them.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

If you label the entirety of Trumps electorate as racists, etc. than you will continue to lose.

How did these racists vote for Obama in 2012 then vote for Trump in 2016?

By instantly labeling them as racists, you completely disregard why these people voted for Trump. How does this not get through your thick skulls. People lost hope in the Democrats because they fucked up big time. People wanted change; the Republicans were the only ones that offered it.

Did you even read the OP excerpt or the content of any posts

I get the racial profiling argument with fairer skinned people, but tge way it was brought up in this thread was just a smug, self-satisfied attempt to handwave a misguided viewpoint as psuedo-privledge or whatever.

Trump will be fucking awful for American Muslims. I think your fear is completely well founded, even if it takes awhile to see just how down this rabbit hole can go.

But calling the ones who voted for them idiots or having internalised racism or whatever now completely fucking useless sociology term nobody in the real world uses achieves fuck all if dems want their next candidate to rally minorities around them.

There's a lot of color issues within individual minority groups, and being white-passable is a real influence on how people see themselves and others.

 

[Nanashrew]

Asra Nomani? lol

She's big in the Islamophobia network. How the fuck is this news?

Bill Maher and Fox News’s Muslim feminism: How Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Asra Nomani embrace the soft Islamophobia of Western expectations
Here's another! Asra Nomani has defended NYPD spying on Muslims and Islamophobic rhetoric in the election cycle

She's a piece of shit, and no different than that Muslims for Trump guy.

Well there it is. Geeze

 

[MUnited83]

Asra Nomani? lol

She's big in the Islamophobia network. How the fuck is this news?

Bill Maher and Fox News’s Muslim feminism: How Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Asra Nomani embrace the soft Islamophobia of Western expectations

Here's another! Asra Nomani has defended NYPD spying on Muslims and Islamophobic rhetoric in the election cycle

She's a piece of shit, and no different than that Muslims for Drumpf guy.

There it is. Not surprised.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

You fucking idiot.

Like does she realize the Clinton Foundation used that money to save millions of people's lives in Africa with AIDS? You know what, one consolation from this election is the fucking Clinton Foundation will continue to be an amazing charity and won't have to be shut down because of idiots like this.

No one cares if you cured cancer with donations if it came from North Korea! Or so they might reason

 

[Steel]

Just like there's enough of that stuff on the other side to kill any conversation as well.

Clinton was not wrong when she said that many of Trump supporters are knowingly being racists and sexists and xenophobes. You can't also discuss with them, despite your best attempts.

We're on an never ending cycle. And I don't understand why the losers have to take the high road considering all the Trump campaign was about throwing the lowest of punches with no accountability. Even minorities, it's asking them "just have even more patience, they'll eventually hear you!". It's unacceptable.

Oh no, don't take this as me ragging on Clinton supporters. Especially not when the other side of the internet conversation is either "swj cucks cucks cucks" or stupid memes. There are absolutely people that you will never convince and you can quickly find that out by talking with them. That being said I did convince two republicans I know, one who has never voted dem in their life, to vote Clinton by hearing them out and arguing with them. People that come off as tea party are too far gone to even interact with someone with different viewpoints without taking it personally. I'm just saying, see if you can convince people before getting them out.

Like, one of their reasoning was that "Dems just spend us into oblivion" until I showed them that every single republican president in the last 60 years has increased the deficit by a higher percentage than their democratic contemporaries.

Asra Nomani? lol

She's big in the Islamophobia network. How the fuck is this news?

Bill Maher and Fox News’s Muslim feminism: How Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Asra Nomani embrace the soft Islamophobia of Western expectations

Here's another! Asra Nomani has defended NYPD spying on Muslims and Islamophobic rhetoric in the election cycle


She's a piece of shit, and no different than that Muslims for Trump guy. She equated members of Islamic faith to drug traffickers and KKK.

Lovely.

 

[NervousXtian]

Wait, she's mad that someone said ISIL instead of Islamic State, when ISIL literally stands for Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant?

Like seriously?

 

[KmA]

Oh Asra Nomani *yaaaaaaawn*

She's the Muslim lapdog that Fox News calls on when they need a correspondent that agrees with their absurdity right? Her and Zuhdi Jasser

 

[Curt Baboon]

I posted this before somewhere, but god damn; Transmetropolitan really seems more relevant than ever...

 

[Toxi]

This year, I say, too: monitor me. Indeed, just as we need to track the Colombian community for drug trafficking and the Ku Klux Klan for white extremists, I believe we should monitor the Muslim community because we sure don’t police ourselves enough.

Wait, what.

 

[QaaQer]

Many do that. Just because others immediately attack doesn't mean everyone on the left spectrum of political ideologies is an intolerant asshole.

Which, heh, is precisely what people are trying to argue about Trump supporters. That they're not all racists and xenophobes. Just don't expect positions to go unchallenged, it's not anyone's fault that people read message board posts with the most aggressive tone possible and take it as a personal attack rather than an attempt to educate and generate discussion.

There is a difference between challenging positions and this,

You fucking idiot.

I'm coming to the conclusion that message boards increase the asshole factor no matter what, even on Buddhism boards lol. I wish people treated each other as if they were talking in their living room after a nice dinner.

 

[Steel]

Wait, what.

Monitor everyone because every racial group has done something bad! Dur dur.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Asra Nomani? lol

She's big in the Islamophobia network. How the fuck is this news?

Bill Maher and Fox News’s Muslim feminism: How Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Asra Nomani embrace the soft Islamophobia of Western expectations

Here's another! Asra Nomani has defended NYPD spying on Muslims and Islamophobic rhetoric in the election cycle


She's a piece of shit, and no different than that Muslims for Trump guy. She equated members of Islamic faith to drug traffickers and KKK.

Ah shit thought I remembered the name.

 

[TimeEffect]

Said it before: We need some kind of documentary on the minorities that voted Trump. To hear them out and to understand why they voted Trump would be absolutely fascinating to listen to.

 

[mjp2417]

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Oh no, don't take this as me ragging on Clinton supporters. Especially not when the other side of the internet conversation is either "swj cucks cucks cucks" or stupid memes. There are absolutely people that you will never convince and you can quickly find that out by talking with them. That being said I did convince two republicans I know, one who has never voted dem in their life, to vote Clinton by hearing them out and arguing with them. People that come off as tea party are too far gone to even interact with someone with different viewpoints without taking it personally. I'm just saying, see if you can convince people before getting them out.

Like, one of their reasoning was that "Dems just spend us into oblivion" until I showed them that every single republican president in the last 60 years has increased the deficit by a higher percentage than their democratic contemporaries.

Oh, we agree then!

There is a difference between challenging positions and this,

I'm coming to the conclusion that message boards increase the asshole factor no matter what, even on Buddhism boards lol. I wish people treated each other as if they were talking in their living room after a nice dinner.

Definitely, but it's hard to do that, considering people would rather applaud the "You fucking idiot" comment to the well constructed reply that actually requires time to read and reflect upon.

 

[Toxi]

Monitor everyone because every racial group has done something bad! Dur dur.

No seriously, that's fucking scary.

 

[norm9]

Alright then, she's a terrible example. But there are others.

 

[NastyBook]

Asra Nomani? lol

She's big in the Islamophobia network. How the fuck is this news?

Bill Maher and Fox News’s Muslim feminism: How Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Asra Nomani embrace the soft Islamophobia of Western expectations

Here's another! Asra Nomani has defended NYPD spying on Muslims and Islamophobic rhetoric in the election cycle


She's a piece of shit, and no different than that Muslims for Trump guy. She equated members of Islamic faith to drug traffickers and KKK.

Disgusting.

 

[Mr.Sumal]

Asra Nomani? lol

She's big in the Islamophobia network. How the fuck is this news?

Bill Maher and Fox News’s Muslim feminism: How Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Asra Nomani embrace the soft Islamophobia of Western expectations

Here's another! Asra Nomani has defended NYPD spying on Muslims and Islamophobic rhetoric in the election cycle


She's a piece of shit, and no different than that Muslims for Trump guy. She equated members of Islamic faith to drug traffickers and KKK.

deplorable