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"John From Cincinnati" - David Milch's latest on HBO Sundays

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Eric WK said:
I agree that the actors playing John and the new motel owner aren't quite right, but I don't think it's a problem, because the characters aren't quite either. I know it sounds like two wrongs making a right, but it ends up working for me.

Unfortunately, your one season idea is probably correct. However, we've only seen one episode and critics have only seen three.

It almost seems structured to be that confined, though. John's predicting the end of the world and you have to figure that it's really just about the family and regardless of how the show is received I would hope that that's not drawn out for too long. Then I again, I wouldn't mind at all of someone could manage what Six Feet Under failed at, just follow a family along for a few seasons without getting too ****ing ridiculous.

And yeah, the performances worked with the overall tone, and Mitch, Butchie, and Shawn are so top drawer great in this that I could really care less how everyone else is.

:)
 
Well, that was odd. The dialogue was was pretty awesome at points - though that's expected from Milch. Hopefully things start coming together soon in terms of the narrative, but at the moment this is entertaining enough for me to keep on watching.
 
I've got this on season pass already the premiere was good enough to check out the first few episodes, I did the same with Big Love and ended up pleasantly surprised by that show.
 

White Man

Member
I've heard from a trusted fellow Deadwood hater that the show started out promising. I'll wait a few weeks and watch the first few eps.
 
The show wasn't bad. It held my attention and I kind of want to see where things are going. Most of the characters have unique personalities and all are a bit on the odd side. I'm not a big fan of Shawn. The kid playing him is by far the weakest part of the cast for me. But then again, he might not be around all that long if John is to be believed.

I loved how he would empty is pockets, then pull out just the thing they needed. The right amount of cash, the cell phone, etc. Interesting start, that's for sure.
 
Kung Fu Jedi said:
I loved how he would empty is pockets, then pull out just the thing they needed. The right amount of cash, the cell phone, etc. Interesting start, that's for sure.

Yeah, that was nicely done.

It feels like Lynch but with the surrealism more appropriate and specific to the given situation. Very interesting stuff.
 
The episode guide is up on HBO.com

Includes a summary, photos, and a "Inside the episode" feature.

HBO.com said:
Inside the Episode
With Steve Hawk

Question One: "Why Imperial Beach?"

That's what fellow surf rats most often ask me when they hear I'm working on 'John From Cincinnati.' Unwaveringly cynical about mainstream depictions of their precious pastime, surfers can't help but wonder why the series takes place in a town known in the surf world for its polluted beaches and average waves. Their single-mindedness causes them to ignore the more obvious disconnects, such as: Why is a surf show named after a dude from (or maybe not from) Ohio?

It turns out Imperial Beach and the adjacent Tijuana River Valley are awash in themes that make it a potent setting for any decent storyteller – and we'll get to those later. First, though, here's the mundane connect-the-dots reason why JFC is set in IB: A couple of years ago HBO executives approached David Milch (the show's executive producer, head writer and creative visionary) with the idea of changing key elements in a series he'd pitched to them some time earlier. Milch's original idea involved a New York City junkie and street scammer whose life takes an upswing when he befriends a gentle stranger with mysterious powers. The network asked Milch to shift the story from NYC to a California surf town, and to make it about a family of legendary surfers. Milch, who'd already successfully transplanted his birth-of-social-order themes from ancient Rome to 1870s Deadwood, embraced the surf motif. Also, he'd recently hired novelist Kem Nunn to write for 'Deadwood.' Nunn, now co-creator and co-executive producer on JFC, is surfing's best-known and –received novelist. His most recent "surf noir" book, Tijuana Straits – a tale of drugs, worm-farming and murder – takes place in and around IB.

It also happens that Imperial Beach was once a major destination for California surfers. Back In the '50s and '60s, IB's best-known surf break, Tijuana Sloughs, at the mouth of the Tijuana River, was a coveted big-wave spot. Most of the surf legends of that era – Pat Curren, Buzzy Trent, Peter Cole and others – regularly ventured to the border to ride the place with Dempsey Holder, the father of IB surfing. By the mid-'70s, however, the surf media had all but forgotten IB, and today it's hard to find a surfer outside of southern San Diego County who's ever set foot in the sand there.

The more Milch learned about IB, the more convinced he became it was the right spot for a show that deals with characters living on the margins. Some of us close to the project initially assumed JFC would overtly address the many powerful forces that collide there: the United States and Mexico; land and ocean; rich and poor; military and civilian, natural beauty and urban decay. But Milch, as both an artist and a man, cares much less about politics than the people he encounters every day on the street and in his scripts. And for all the "issues" swirling around the real IB, this show will always at its core be about the intricately flawed characters who invariably populate Milch's fictional universe.

The region's social and political complexities are not to be denied, of course, and they inevitably seep into the show. Shortly after the series' first line is spoken (John says, "The end is near."), a cluster of illegal aliens scurry through the brush nearby. And when Mitch levitates beside his car in the same episode's early minutes, that's the Tijuana Bullring behind him.

Question Two: What's with Mitch's levitation and the bird's resurrection?

Obviously something otherwordly is in play, and that's all I can say about that at this point. But here's something to bear in mind: When Mitch goes up in the air and Zippy comes back to life, the people most affected (Mitch, Bill) choose to view what others might consider miraculous events through the prisms of their personal pathologies. Mitch decides he has brain cancer; Bill blames his descent into senility. Which raises the question: If a miracle happens and no one acknowledges it, did it really occur?

Question Three: What's with the sequence of non-sequiturs John utters during the gun-brandishing scene in the Snug Harbor Motel parking lot?

"We are all frail vessels," John says to himself as the Snug Harbor crisis unfolds. And, "Butchie's mom hurt Barry's head." And, "Room 24 will give up its dead and the dead shall be forgiven." And, "Where Ramon is from they would build Mitch a shrine." And, "One good blowjob rocks the Jew lawyer's world." And, "Shaun will soon be gone."

By the end of this episode, none of those comments is illuminated, which I'm sure has left some people scratching their heads. But have faith: They'll make perfect sense later.

Question Four: If this episode were to have a snappier title other than the official one ("His Visit: Day One,"), what would it be?

My three picks:

a. "Circumstances Intervene"
b. "Meet the F***king Jetsons"
c. "The Pigs Got Grandma."
 

Memles

Member
I wrote a full review of the episode on my blog, but on the whole I found that for the pilot it seemed that the supernatural stuff was just a distraction from how pedestrian the rest of the drama was. And yet, because the supernatural stuff was quite compelling, I'm intrigued enough to keep watching.
I'm not a big fan of Shawn. The kid playing him is by far the weakest part of the cast for me. But then again, he might not be around all that long if John is to be believed.

Yeah, Shaun was not entertaining in the least. The actor is far too wooden, lifeless: I get that he's supposed to be the innocent one so that his "end" (Assuming John is to be believed) is more tragic or at the very least that he is corrupted, but he's just boring right now.
 

seat

Member
White Man said:
I still can't believe Deadwood has so many fans. The show is my definition of all dressed up with nowhere to go.
Exactly what I thought about the pilot for this show as well. I like weird shows, but this one feels like it's forcing it. Won't be tuning in again unless people say it gets better.

I'm not a big fan of long ending shot either: "Hey we're pretty people! Watch us surf! You will like us because we are quirky yet good-looking!"
 

Mifune

Mehmber
Ed O'Neil is so great in this. SO GREAT.

I don't know. The first episode wasn't nearly as wacked out or aimless as I was expecting given the reviews. Seemed pretty straightforward to me. Great acting. Great Milch dialogue. I'm hooked.
 
Mifune said:
Ed O'Neil is so great in this. SO GREAT.

al.gif
 

Flynn

Member
Mifune said:
Ed O'Neil is so great in this. SO GREAT.

I don't know. The first episode wasn't nearly as wacked out or aimless as I was expecting given the reviews. Seemed pretty straightforward to me. Great acting. Great Milch dialogue. I'm hooked.

The wife actively disliked the show. I think she has a harder time getting on board when the assholes are of the modern day type, rather than arms length jerks in waistcoats and britches.

For some reason John's Starman/Rainman shtick cracked me up, especially when he was playing it against Ed O'Neil -- that guy mugs like nobody else out there.
 

Clevinger

Member
I liked this, it seems promising. Hopefully Milch can deliver again.


Also, :lol at describing Deadwood as "all dressed up with nowhere to go"... Jesus...

Though I will say that season 3 lacked the direction and cohesiveness that made the show so brilliant in the first two. Though that could probably be attributed to Milch losing interest in the show.
 

mrWalrus

Banned
Just got a chance to see the second episode. (I've got HBO on demand and for some reason they've already put it up). Anyway, I'm really digging the characters, sans Luke Perry. I don't mind that Sean seems to be brain dead... that's a product of his surroundings (burnout father, no mother, being raised by his grandparents and neighbor) and I think it's bound to change by the end.

I don't believe John stating 'the end is coming' is anything more than him parroting a sign he saw before getting picked up. Plus, I think he plays the Starman/Rainman role perfectly. I'm really curious to see his character develop. If nothing else that will keep me watching.

I'm giving Luke Perry's character a chance to turn it around though I think he's a little unnecessary at this point. Besides Luke needs something else to do in life other than just being the pot dealer to the stars.

Everyone else is great. Ed O'Neil is a very underrated actor, Rebecca De Mornay has finally found something that suits her. Luis Guzmán is awesome but, sadly, I don't think he'll amount to anything other than a bit character with one liners and as other's have stated Mitch and Butch have been appropriately cast.

Maybe I'm out of my league here a little since I stopped watching the Sopranos after the third season only to watch the last thirty minutes of the final episode but, that felt completely forced. The dialog here really flows and the everything comes together almost poetically.. well not really, it's still tv but, all the cuts seem to be done for a reason and not jut to show you what that character is up to now. JFC isn't the type of show that needs more than 10-12 episodes, this is a prefect summertime novella. If HBO is smart they'll start up a new series that revolves around the stock market as that is a hot topic lately and is something that can really be developed into several seasons.

I'll be honest I wasn't a fan of deadwood.. but then again I never gave it a chance.. I was turned off before the end of the first episode (even though I really respected the atmosphere they were able to create). I think I'm going to have to go back and give it a try now. David Milch knows how to put a show together.
 
mrWalrus said:
I'll be honest I wasn't a fan of deadwood.. but then again I never gave it a chance.. I was turned off before the end of the first episode (even though I really respected the atmosphere they were able to create). I think I'm going to have to go back and give it a try now. David Milch knows how to put a show together.

You won't be sorry.

You won't have shitless pants either, though. Word of warning.
 
I've found that most shows on HBO take a little while to get rolling, so that's why JFC gets a longer leash from me. I noticed the same thing for Deadwood, Rome, The Wire, etc... - give them a shot and they'll grow on you. The more complicated narratives with lots of characters take some time to develop.
 

mrWalrus

Banned
The Wire, That's one show I've been meaning to watch but just haven't taken the time to enjoy yet. I've heard so many good things about that show. I'll have a marathon one of these days.

Rome was brilliant, it's a crime they aren't going to continue. There are too many stories to tell.. I was really hoping we'd see Nero and all his wackiness.

Entourage is great but it really is a poorly written show. I guess I'm just reliving my time living in LA through that series.. not that I'm a budding actor, manager, agent, etc. it's just a good show for a 20's something male it get into.

While I'm writing.. does anyone know when/if we'll get another season of Curb??? The last season seemed like it was losing steam but I still love Larry David (even if is wife is a freak).
 

Eric WK

Member
Those of you who have HBO On Demand can catch Episode 2 a day early. Not sure how long it's been up, but I decided to say what the hell and watch it.

Dialogue continues to be top notch, the characters are becoming even more interesting and even more likable, and I'm still super excited about the series.

mrWalrus said:
While I'm writing.. does anyone know when/if we'll get another season of Curb??? The last season seemed like it was losing steam but I still love Larry David (even if is wife is a freak).

Yes. The new season will be airing this Fall or early 2008.
 
Cornballer said:
I've found that most shows on HBO take a little while to get rolling, so that's why JFC gets a longer leash from me. I noticed the same thing for Deadwood, Rome, The Wire, etc... - give them a shot and they'll grow on you. The more complicated narratives with lots of characters take some time to develop.

You know, we just started watching Wire S1 here at Chateau Oiseau and I have to disagree with you. God damn this is a ****ing tight opening season, from the get go. Perfect encapsulating opening scene, and within ten minutes you've the legendary "**** YOU DETECTIVE" doodle from one Stringer Bell.

The rest of that shit, yeah, probably, Deadwood needed a couple of scenes to get running, but The Wire was immaculate from the get go.

What were we talking about?
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
You know, we just started watching Wire S1 here at Chateau Oiseau and I have to disagree with you. God damn this is a ****ing tight opening season, from the get go. Perfect encapsulating opening scene, and within ten minutes you've the legendary "**** YOU DETECTIVE" doodle from one Stringer Bell.

The rest of that shit, yeah, probably, Deadwood needed a couple of scenes to get running, but The Wire was immaculate from the get go.
Interesting. I don't remember much of my experience with S1 of the Wire other than that it was pretty demanding on the viewer. Not that this is a bad thing, but you have to pay attention and it takes a while to get invested in the characters. Again, this was a while ago, but that's what I remember from it. I'll probably go back and rewatch again sometime down the line.

What were we talking about?
I dunno - surfers and stuff?
 
Eric WK said:
Those of you who have HBO On Demand can catch Episode 2 a day early. Not sure how long it's been up, but I decided to say what the hell and watch it.

Dialogue continues to be top notch, the characters are becoming even more interesting and even more likable, and I'm still super excited about the series.

Just watched this, along with the little 10 minute EPK thing, and I get it now.

One of my favorite, oh wow how awesome is this things about Deadwood was how optimistic Milch is about community, and how much he believes that when it comes down to it, most people really are willing to side with each other rather than tear each other down.

JFC is really about these disparate characters at a point in their life when they're going to pull together. The crew at the motel is sort of a really lovely microcosm of that.

And as always, I love that he makes a show that is completely a coherent narrative, dialogue that references previous episodes without any kind of nudge like "just like I said the other day, huh". It just makes for a really nice narrative thread.

So, yeah, I'm all in.

I saw Wolcott in the credits and I was like, well, where is he? I would have liked for him to show up under better circumstances, but I'm very curious to see how manages to wrangle a role of significance large enough to merit a spot in the credits, considering the end of the episode (!!!!!!!).
 
Not a bad episode. I certainly want to see where it's going next.

However, the kid that plays Shawn is just such a terrible actor it's distracting.
 

Memles

Member
I knew it. I f*cking knew it. F*ck.

This episode suffered because of Shawn's terrible acting, and because the Butchie stuff was so much better than everything else. I want the Butchie and John show.
 
Memles said:
I knew it. I f*cking knew it. F*ck.

This episode suffered because of Shawn's terrible acting, and because the Butchie stuff was so much better than everything else. I want the Butchie and John show.

I don't know Butchie instead.
 

Clevinger

Member
I like where it's going. John imitating the other guy in the bathroom was pretty great as well. As was some of the Charlie Utter dialogue.

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph!


Only thing I don't like is the kid's acting. But, oh well.
 
Whoa. Interesting stuff - not quite sure what to make of it yet, but I'm enjoying the ride.

Here's the "Inside the Episode" guide for Episode 2. There's a few things that the author attempts to explain about what's going on, so I'll spoiler tag it. (It's not really spoilers, but just in case...)

HBO.com Inside the Episode said:
Inside the Episode
With Steve Hawk

Early Warning Signs


It's the day after John's arrival, and even as they go about their daily business and relapse into long-nurtured resentments, a few characters are beginning to understand – to varying degrees and with varying responses – that something miraculous is afoot in IB. One or two also suspect that John is somehow responsible.

Butchie, the junkie, is the first to lurch consciously toward the connection. He hasn't scored a fix in two days, and he's more mystified than elated by the blessed absence of a jones. "My old man levitated, I'm not feeling sick," Butchie whispers to himself while watching John from afar on the pier. "John – what the hell's going on?"

Bill, meanwhile, continues to harbor his ex-cop distrust of Butchie's strange new friend. But his corporeal concerns about John don't stop him from later performing a giant act of irrational faith – smuggling Zippy into Shaun's hospital room to see if the bird might bring the boy back to life.

This, of course, is a complete reversal of Bill's initial response to Zippy's own resurrection the day before, when Bill dismissed the miracle as a misperception of his increasingly enfeebled mind. "I don't know anymore if I'm on foot or horseback," Bill said at the time, "or if a bird's alive or dead."

Forget the Words: Watch The Action

David Milch, JFC's executive producer and the brains behind the show, believes that words more often than not fail to convey a person's true meaning. "Don't listen to what people say," Milch says. "Watch what they do."

Case in point: After Butchie learns of Shaun's accident and declares that he must get high to handle it, Freddy (the drug kingpin fresh in from Hawaii) pulls a gun and forces Butchie and John into his compact rental car. Given that Freddy just popped him in the jaw and accused him of being a rat, Butchie is reasonably concerned that Freddy plans to kill him. Instead, Freddy chauffeurs Butchie to the hospital to be with his son.

"Sunset Beach, the kid you used to put on your back and paddle him out to watch from the channel – that's the one broke his neck now?" Freddy asks. "That's some f***ed-up shit.
In other words: I'm sorry about your son.
Butchie: "That is some f***ed-up shit."
In other words: Condolences appreciated.
At the hospital, Butchie says, "Thanks for not killing me."
In other words: Thanks for the ride.
Freddy: "Get out before I blow both your f***ing heads off."
In other words: You're welcome.

One more thing about that scene: In his own angry way, Freddy is among the first characters to detect the supernatural at work. He's had a lot of experience with mind-altering drugs ("I took more acid than you ate f***ing Cheerios for breakfast"), and has come to California predisposed to believe.

"That mope in the back seat keeps changing f***ing shapes," Freddy tells Butchie while watching John in the rear-view mirror. And then, to John: "I ain't afraid of you, pal. I don't care what you are."

Is Room 24 Really Haunted?

Yes – at least as far as Barry the Lotto winner is concerned. During the climactic gun-wielding scene in the Snug Harbor parking lot the day before, Barry revealed that he'd been "deflowered" in that room at age 10. When he dares to open the door to Room 24 here, Barry sees – or perhaps merely believes he sees – the ghost of his abuser, and the specter terrifies him. Shaken, he returns to the hotel office and announces to Ramon and Dickstein that the room is haunted.

"You've mentioned you had an unpleasant experience there," says Dickstein, the lawyer who administered Barry's recent purchase of the motel.

"It was all one in my mind," Barry replies, making it clear that the abuse was recurring. "Time flies when you're having fun."

In this scene, Ramon, the hotel's manager, also reveals a predisposition to believe in the supernatural. When Barry says, "I woke up this morning happy. I mistook that freedom for power," Ramon sees through to the source of Barry's anxiety. Ramon: "Ghost showed you what was what."

DVR Moment

If you have the show recorded, here's a moment worth replaying: In the hospital, shortly before Zippy kisses Shaun, keep an eye on Doctor Smith (the neurologist caring for the injured boy) as he watches Bill walk toward him with the bird in his pocket. Bill's approach clearly fills the physician with awe. When Smith says, "Are you here to see Shaun?" his expression and tone are almost pleading, as if to say, "Please say yes – please tell me you've come to save the boy." One might say the doctor's an early believer as well.

Alternate Titles

Three alternate titles to the official one ("His Visit: Day Two"):

a. "A Minor Temblor"
b. "Fume Control"
c. "A Family Outing"
Pretty cool to see Charlie Utter and Wolcott/McCall again. :D
 

Solo

Member
I saw the first episodes. Weird little show, but utterly hilarious. John and Ed O'Neill are awesome.

"I took a dump a grown man would be proud of" :lol
 

gsnyder

Member
I stumbled across something last night when I was telling a friend about the show:

John from Cincinnati : JfC : Jesus f****** Christ

I'm sure it's just a coincidence. But I'm starting to enjoy the show.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
I'm really loving the credits sequence too.
The opening credits rule - just a nice blend of music and the old films of people surfing. Makes me want to go surfing. It's the first show in a while that I've watched the opening credits more than once.
 
I think I'm gonna watch it for its ten episode run, but I highly dislike the religious undertone. I also don't like all these Deadwood actors showing up which is just very distracting. Other than that Al Bundy is doing a great job and has the best role so far.

What are the ratings for the show, is it successful?
 

Solo

Member
I don't think HBO shows have "ratings" per se. There are no ads, so theres no ad revenue coming in. I'm not sure how HBO and other cable shows define success, in all honesty.

But they're not waiting on ratings like the networks, ABC et al.
 
From Wikipedia
The John from Cincinnati premiere had an audience of 3.4 million viewers, less than one third of The Sopranos finale's total audience. HBO studio executives remain adamant that the Nielsen Rating system is unreliable and inaccurate.
 

Solo

Member
So they do use ratings then, eh? For some reason I thought Showtime/FX/HBO based success on other factors. But yeah, something weird and generally hard to classify like JFC will never be a ratings success.
 
Solo said:
I don't think HBO shows have "ratings" per se. There are no ads, so theres no ad revenue coming in. I'm not sure how HBO and other cable shows define success, in all honesty.

But they're not waiting on ratings like the networks, ABC et al.

There were certainly plenty of talk about ratings last week with the Soprano's last episode. I'm sure the same applies to other HBO shows. But I haven't heard a peep on how this is doing.
 
Solo said:
So they do use ratings then, eh? For some reason I thought Showtime/FX/HBO based success on other factors. But yeah, something weird and generally hard to classify like JFC will never be a ratings success.
I think those are Nielson numbers, but HBO doesn't really care quite as much about them. Your original post about ratings was pretty close, from what I've heard. Ratings mean something, but not everything to HBO.
 
I think it will be an okay show, maybe going for three seasons or something like that. Production costs can't be that high. But a replacement for Sopranos/Deadwood/Rome it is not.
 

Flynn

Member
I don't really get all the hate on the kid. Sure, he's not very expressive, but he's pretty much acting exactly like half the sullen pre-teens and teenagers I come across. It's a fairly naturalistic performance. I think people are confusing hate with the character as he's been written and cast with hate for the acting.
 

RumFore

Banned
Seems weird. It will take a few episodes for me to get it. I don't know if these people have super abilities or what.
 
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