But for what really? At what cost?
Never seemed worth it unless you're a first (or second) party studio With a pretty good safety net.
Shit, middleware engines were one the reasons the ps2 gen had so many releases.
Renderware was the shit
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Kingdom Hearts 3 is now using Unreal Engine 4
- Thread starter duckroll
- Start date
Never seemed worth it unless you're a first (or second) party studio With a pretty good safety net.
Shit, middleware engines were one the reasons the ps2 gen had so many releases.
Renderware was the shit
EightBitNate
Member
That probably isn't a good sign for development. This game isn't coming for a looong time.
Trigonometrize.
Member
Truly, that old LUMINOUS trailer shown off for the second time at the PS4 reveal event was worth Sony's time.
It's good news for KH3, it's bad news for the outlook on S-E's R&D.
FalsettoVibe
Member
If using UE4 helps Japan get their act together, I'm all for it.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I'd say is the contrary.
I don't think anyone is saying that Unreal 4 would impact the game negatively, it may actually ease development. The negative reaction is that they are ditching their in house engine despite dumping tons of resources on it.
Bad news for any KH news in the near future
A great move. I was hoping for something like this. The value of building these internal engines, that have been an obscene cash-pit and source of constant delays is just non-existent. As long as SE are only going to get a few 'AAA' consoles games out a generation, using middleware is the obvious solution.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
Don't worry about using UE4:
http://www.engadget.com/2014/10/06/unreal-engine-4-5/?ncid=rss_truncated
https://www.unrealengine.com/blog/unreal-engine-45-preview-notes
The new update will add a new approach for Screen-space Subsurface Scattering using the technic presented a year ago by Jorge Jimenez: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6R6N4Vy0nE&feature=player_embedded#!
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/activision-shows-off-next-gen-visuals/1100-6406090/
http://www.iryoku.com/stare-into-the-future
It will also add Ray Traced Distance Field Soft Shadows for more accurate glitch-free shadows and now Mobile games can handle dynamic shadows for movable directional lights.
The best way to compare is to compare apples to apples:
When I see this in Thief (using the latest version of UE3 that is heavily modified and can be counted among the best versions):
http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/50987989622074338/82FD42842D746D29C7452ADE7745C0D1939C8349/.
(Oh BTW, in Thief and in the same stance of the pic the sahdows are flickering when you look carefully when you are playing unlike what you will get with UE4 next update)
Then seeing this in UE4 (made by one person btw):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAwWuSAjKvs&list=UUjpFOf-YWpois6WVG6hqXNQ
You can really expect a bright future for UE4.
http://www.engadget.com/2014/10/06/unreal-engine-4-5/?ncid=rss_truncated
https://www.unrealengine.com/blog/unreal-engine-45-preview-notes
The new update will add a new approach for Screen-space Subsurface Scattering using the technic presented a year ago by Jorge Jimenez: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6R6N4Vy0nE&feature=player_embedded#!
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/activision-shows-off-next-gen-visuals/1100-6406090/
http://www.iryoku.com/stare-into-the-future
It will also add Ray Traced Distance Field Soft Shadows for more accurate glitch-free shadows and now Mobile games can handle dynamic shadows for movable directional lights.
The best way to compare is to compare apples to apples:
When I see this in Thief (using the latest version of UE3 that is heavily modified and can be counted among the best versions):
http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/50987989622074338/82FD42842D746D29C7452ADE7745C0D1939C8349/.
(Oh BTW, in Thief and in the same stance of the pic the sahdows are flickering when you look carefully when you are playing unlike what you will get with UE4 next update)
Then seeing this in UE4 (made by one person btw):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAwWuSAjKvs&list=UUjpFOf-YWpois6WVG6hqXNQ
You can really expect a bright future for UE4.
Luminous tech that they developed over the years could benefit them in more ways than one.
Even If they can't officially use it as "luminous engine" ,the program may have helped their tech staff be better equipped for the realities of this generation of games.
I remember they said they devised various production pipelines.There could be other beneficial takeaways from this kind of research and development.
But,yeah,admittedly I am no expert and know little about these issues.
KH3? Currently XBO and PS4.
Hibiki Kurosawa
Member
I really don't think we were getting anything major soon anyway. FFXV is SE's next big release. The HD collections of KH can tide us over.
Blood Diamonds
Banned
I think it's good news. Luminous engine seems to be causing so much trouble for them, might as well use an engine that allows them to work fast.
So far it's announced for PS4/XB1. PC doesn't seem implausible given the engine, but it's not announced.
I'm assuming it's not on mobile, but if they wanted to do a spin-off, they could also leverage the same toolchain.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Real talk: The age of developers making their own engines for games, especially Japanese developers, is probably on its death bed. Capcom may push Panta Rhei like they did MT Framework because the latter worked out well for them, but if Panta Rhei does not catch on (they're not exactly putting it at the front and center right now), expect them to jump to the UE4 or Cryengine ships.
Hell, remember when Sega created an engine with Sonic Unleashed with the specific, stated intention of wanting developers to license it out and nobody ever did? That was a huge waste of time and resources for something most people could have seen coming a mile away.
Japanese developers were caught with their pants down last generation because they weren't on the UE3 train, for better or worse. They know this. The decision to just dump your engine and go with a known quantity is getting easier and easier to make as time goes by.
Hell, remember when Sega created an engine with Sonic Unleashed with the specific, stated intention of wanting developers to license it out and nobody ever did? That was a huge waste of time and resources for something most people could have seen coming a mile away.
Japanese developers were caught with their pants down last generation because they weren't on the UE3 train, for better or worse. They know this. The decision to just dump your engine and go with a known quantity is getting easier and easier to make as time goes by.
There's that, but I was actually thinking of how they're handling the new UT and how cheaply the engine is being offered to indies and college students. I could get UE4, if I wanted it.
Guess I'll have to be the one then.
Square just shot themselves in the foot.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about game engines (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in programming where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over on game engines, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is the game engine enthusiast public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase KH3 for either system, nor will they purchase any of Square's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Square has alienated an entire market with this move.
Square, publicly apologize and cancel KH3 for UE4 or you can kiss your business GOODBYE.
Square just shot themselves in the foot.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about game engines (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in programming where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over on game engines, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is the game engine enthusiast public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase KH3 for either system, nor will they purchase any of Square's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Square has alienated an entire market with this move.
Square, publicly apologize and cancel KH3 for UE4 or you can kiss your business GOODBYE.
funkystudent
Member
Final Fantasy Type 0 is coming soon.
A internal engine struggling to make the next gen leap
A directionless final fantasy in development hell and years from release that seems to be stripping ideas out in hopes of making it a shippable game.
Kingdom Hearts 3 has been in pre production for years at some dark corner of SE.
If you told me all this was information given out at a Square Enix interview at TGS 2007 I would believe you.
KH3? PS4 and Xbox One.
Being that this is UE4 a PC port is also a possibility, from a technical standpoint at least.
Its bad because SE is fucking stupid with their development chain where they cant get their engines working for shit. Its good because UE4 is a great engine and will save a lot of time money and development cost in the future if they continue with it.
The Japs should have leaped wholesale on middleware last gen, maybe then they would be in a better position development wise in console land.
I can't even imagine if Namco Bandai puts Tales on UE4. HOLY SHIT. No more beholden to crappy assets and way faster dev times with that particular brand of anime art style? Jesus...
ShockingAlberto
Member
Tales is always going to be budget-limited. An engine change isn't going to fix that.
ramuh
Member
neogaffer1
Banned
Epic games must really own the industry outside of the indies who use Unity and the few studios left who still use their own engines...
I don't see how this can be bad news for KH3. From Tabata's comments, the luminous team is solely focusing on FFXV. Osaka has only been making handheld games, they probably need all the help they can get and if everyone is over helping XV then they got nothing.
They say they're working closely with epic and people here are saying this is a big deal for epic so I think they'll find all the help they need now.
I think Square Pictures takes the cake for most embarrassing.
Just another chapter in 'How Square Fucked Up'.
donutzsick
Member
Now i wonder if square will bother to do another in house engine for more of their games. I also wonder if Tabata will keep the luminous team incorporated with his team for whatever projects he does after XV.
History repeating itself is pretty funny I gotta say
History repeating itself is pretty funny I gotta say
Don't Bethesda, EA, Ubisoft, Activision and R* all use their own engines now. That's probably most of the core industry revenue-wise.
Honestly, that's the thing. I think it's a good thing for game companies. Spend the extra money that could have been used developing a custom engine to make the game outright better. I'd love to see more companies use existing engines rather than create their own.
I understand each game likes to create their own elements or focus on different technical aspects in games but things like Cry Engine or UE4 or Unity... can do a lot of that stuff already now. Lighting, hair, shadows, even destruction and that kind of thing. It's already there.
My question is how good was the documentation for Japanese developers for the majority of the last gen cycle?
Well when you spell it out like that...
I'm pretty sad about Luminous though. It was a great idea but in practice I guess it didn't pan out...
The bright future promised in 2012 has come to an end for SE.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Didn't Square wasted our time showing TWICE that Agni's Philosophy tech demo of their Luminous engine? They even chose to show it that second time in its entirely during the PS4 Reveal event!
What a waste of resources. Didn't FFXIII's biggest reason of its insane development cycle was struggling with their own White engine? I mean I guess I'm happy KH3 is on UE4. This can only mean it's gonna be developed faster, right?
If there is one big videogame company with a horrible lack of direction its Square Enix.
Hopefully UE4 is up to the task.
What a waste of resources. Didn't FFXIII's biggest reason of its insane development cycle was struggling with their own White engine? I mean I guess I'm happy KH3 is on UE4. This can only mean it's gonna be developed faster, right?
If there is one big videogame company with a horrible lack of direction its Square Enix.
Hopefully UE4 is up to the task.
Budget limits don't need to make your game's IQ terribad though. Just look at Atelier.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the FFXV sequels using the same engine FFXV is now.
It's just that those will probably be the only games implementing Luminous at all.
From a technical standpoint I would be interested to see how long it takes them to get that demo up and running on UE4.
It's just that those will probably be the only games implementing Luminous at all.
From a technical standpoint I would be interested to see how long it takes them to get that demo up and running on UE4.
Hint: it probably wouldn't take near as long on luminous.
Poetic.Injustice
Member
Better chance to hit PC at least.
For some reason I was under the assumption that use of the engine had simmered down, but I can see how it'd pick up again.
How many major franchises use UE still? Seems like most pubs/devs opt for proprietary engines to cut costs in the long run.
True, but the fact of the matter is, UE4's development chain makes it much easier to create competent visuals from nothing and with much less effort than UE3 or many other older engines. For many things its simply slide and click.
So even if Tales team has a small budget, what they can do with that budget will be much more once they are not limited by their tools.
Its the same with something like the Atelier devs or even indies in general.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
NegativeCero
Banned
You know what, if it's cheaper for them and it runs well, I don't care at all. Just let me play this game. Making new engines for big games isn't sustainable anyway.
I guess now we know why he left.
Hmmm, 1080p60 Sonic game and Vanquish 2 with UE4? Awww yeah!
MrCunningham
Member
So easy PC port then?
