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McConnell and GOP Senators desperately working on a new "Skinny Repeal" for the ACA

shira

Member
Apr 6, 2011
47,398
76
585
bit.ly
Get ready America for TrumpCare


PS don't get sick ever
 

Afrodium

Banned
Apr 21, 2009
4,470
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So did this pass because moderate members of the GOP have still been campaigning on repealing Obamacare, and would therefore look silly voting to not even discuss a repeal?
 

adj_noun

Member
May 28, 2013
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Thank God McCain pulled through to vote for killing millions of Americans!

It's almost a perfect movie scenario, ain't it?

Senator gets cancer, comes back, goes against party and refuses to vote yes on the basis of the empathy his experience gave him. Demands that each American get the same level of care he got.

Maybe that happened in some other dimension.
 

Christian

Member
Jul 25, 2006
1,679
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I don't even understand what they voted on, although I'm just jumping in now. They voted to hold a debate regarding outright repealing the ACA? What have they been talking about for six months??
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Jun 7, 2004
77,906
3
1,490
Oregon

Damn.

I can't recall a time I've been on the side of cancer, but McCain is making a strong argument to make an exception.

I don't even understand what they voted on, although I'm just jumping in now. They voted to hold a debate regarding outright repealing the ACA? What have they been talking about for six months??

Before they can debate a bill, there is a "motion to proceed" to the debate. Generally (though not always) that vote can be seen as a prelude to the final vote.

They also usually have an actual bill to debate. Here they don't even know what they're going to debate after.
 

Mrbob

Member
Jun 7, 2004
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I'm not ready to freak out yet because McCain basically said this current bill is garbage and he won't vote for it in his speech.

I still think there is a huge uphill battle to get something done.

Damn.

I can't recall a time I've been on the side of cancer, but McCain is making a strong argument to make an exception.

...
 

darkstar0155

Member
Aug 15, 2012
1,151
0
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So did this pass because moderate members of the GOP have still been campaigning on repealing Obamacare, and would therefore look silly voting to not even discuss a repeal?

Yep, and why this should have been expected to pass. This really doesn't do anything other than give them some kind of win that isn't even really a win. I mean, McConnell knew a straight repeal would have failed, he knew his bill would have failed, both for different reasons. It really only matters when they actually vote on a bill itself, not just to begin to debate.
 

Shauni

Member
May 31, 2011
8,598
2
0

Thanks for this, I feel like this happened so out of the blue this time it's hard to get a really good tick-by-tick play. Seems like the plan ultimately is to still cobble together some plan that can manage to apply to everyone and can get through reconciliation, which is what they've been doing and failing at since the beginning. I really don't even understand why this step even happened. Was this just like a symbolic vote mentally for the party?
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Jun 7, 2004
77,906
3
1,490
Oregon

It is difficult to empathize with a man who is spending his last small window of life trying to fuck people over and take away their healthcare, while he's in the process of receiving very expensive (covered) healthcare. People will die as a direct result of any variation of the GOP bill passed, not to mention untold suffering from lack of treatment and hardships from massive medical bills.

Very difficult to empathize.
 
Nov 10, 2005
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I'm not ready to freak out yet because McCain basically said this current bill is garbage and he won't vote for it in his speech.

I still think there is a huge uphill battle to get something done.



...

John McCain: "This is the worst bill in my life"

"But what's your vote"

"Yay"
 

Cyrano

Member
Dec 20, 2010
5,422
6
800
Yet, this hasn't happened despite conservative messaging trying to sell any of the bills, and healthcare reform, especially those that touch Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security have always been a death kiss politically for either party. So yeah, it's easy to decry votes as stupid, and they generally are, but they get surprisingly a lot smarter when something happens that directly affects them. There's a reason why the right and left are still incredibly split on literally every other issue except healthcare. There was a poll of Fox News viewers and 74% wanted to see the GOP and Dems working together to improve the ACA or at least devise a better bill. 74% of Fox News viewers.
This is only a couple million people.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/cable-news-ratings-fox-news-msnbc-1202017940/

Even extrapolated, Fox News doesn't speak for a lot of people, even Republicans. My personal belief is that they are just a live version of Breitbart at this point, catering to the most malicious viewpoints. Because that sort of extremism is what attracts a highly niche audience, and increasingly, extremism is the order of the day for entertainment media.
 

Mrbob

Member
Jun 7, 2004
63,747
6
0
It is difficult to empathize with a man who is spending his last small window of life trying to fuck people over and take away their healthcare, while he's in the process of receiving very expensive (covered) healthcare. People will die as a direct result of any variation of the GOP bill passed, not to mention untold suffering from lack of treatment and hardships from massive medical bills.

Very difficult to empathize.
He didn't vote for the bill. He voted for a motion to proceed. Huge difference. Let's see what happens with the actual bill first. He actually talked about some sort of bipartisanship solution in his speech so if he backs off on this then it's fair game.
 

PopeReal

Member
Sep 25, 2012
5,734
0
0
He didn't vote for the bill. He voted for a motion to proceed. Huge difference. Let's see what happens with the actual bill first. He actually talked about some sort of bipartisanship solution in his speech so if he backs off on this then it's fair game.

Lol another sucker.
 

Arkeband

Banned
Mar 11, 2015
11,981
0
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He didn't vote for the bill. He voted for a motion to proceed. Huge difference. Let's see what happens with the actual bill first. He actually talked about some sort of bipartisanship solution in his speech so if he backs off on this then it's fair game.

They're the same thing ya ninny.
 

Dartastic

Member
Mar 14, 2007
18,368
2
0
Portland, OR
He didn't vote for the bill. He voted for a motion to proceed. Huge difference. Let's see what happens with the actual bill first. He actually talked about some sort of bipartisanship solution in his speech so if he backs off on this then it's fair game.

Lol another sucker.
Exactly. McCain consistently talks the talk then backs down. His whole "Maverick" schtick is just theater. He's a piece of shit who consistently falls in line. He had a chance to make a stand. He didn't. Then he gave a speech blasting people for the very same thing HE JUST DID BY VOTING FOR THE MOTION TO PROCEED.
 

Shauni

Member
May 31, 2011
8,598
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This is only a couple million people.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/cable-news-ratings-fox-news-msnbc-1202017940/

Even extrapolated, Fox News doesn't speak for a lot of people, even Republicans. My personal belief is that they are just a live version of Breitbart at this point, catering to the most malicious viewpoints. Because that sort of extremism is what attracts a highly niche audience, and increasingly, extremism is the order of the day for entertainment media.

Yeah, but that isn't really relevant to my point. He was taking about the right-wing spin machines will make this suddenly beloved, and I pointed out a poll from viewers of the most mainstream right-wing spin machine that contradict that.
 
Apr 3, 2007
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He didn't vote for the bill. He voted for a motion to proceed. Huge difference. Let's see what happens with the actual bill first. He actually talked about some sort of bipartisanship solution in his speech so if he backs off on this then it's fair game.
Lol, so you're just trolling then? I don't understand these posts.
 

Maledict

Member
Feb 16, 2013
8,779
1
600
He didn't vote for the bill. He voted for a motion to proceed. Huge difference. Let's see what happens with the actual bill first. He actually talked about some sort of bipartisanship solution in his speech so if he backs off on this then it's fair game.

That's not how this works. at all.

You have to be deliberately ignoring all political history around this, and the actions of the Republican party since Trump was elected. They will pass a bill. It will get 50+1 votes. This is now guaranteed.

McCain, Heller, Portman, Capito, Flake, Paul and all the others are just a bunch of hypocritical shitheads who lie everytime they open their mouths and happily climb into bed with Trump.

EDIT: Also, if he wanted bipartisanship, you don't vote for this bill. Voting for this bill *prevents* Bi-partisanship. The commitee structure he talked about? That can't happen by this method! He's literally saying what he wants to happen whilst voting for EXACTLY the opposite.
 

Psychoward

Banned
Aug 17, 2011
22,257
1
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He didn't vote for the bill. He voted for a motion to proceed. Huge difference. Let's see what happens with the actual bill first. He actually talked about some sort of bipartisanship solution in his speech so if he backs off on this then it's fair game.
There will be no bipartisan bill. The reason no dems voted for this motion is because McCain nor his party have ever alluded to a legitimate bipartisan Healthcare bill.
 
Aug 29, 2009
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Not GAF, lol
That's not how this works. at all.

You have to be deliberately ignoring all political history around this, and the actions of the Republican party since Trump was elected. They will pass a bill. It will get 50+1 votes. This is now guaranteed.

Nothing is at all guaranteed. They're not going into this assuming something is guaranteed (hence this thread).
 
Apr 3, 2007
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That's not how this works. at all.

You have to be deliberately ignoring all political history around this, and the actions of the Republican party since Trump was elected. They will pass a bill. It will get 50+1 votes. This is now guaranteed.
You also have to ignore McCain's entire voting history........
 

ramoisdead

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Feb 21, 2013
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450
He didn't vote for the bill. He voted for a motion to proceed. Huge difference. Let's see what happens with the actual bill first. He actually talked about some sort of bipartisanship solution in his speech so if he backs off on this then it's fair game.

"Guys, he didn't vote to kill millions of people. He just voted to see if killing millions of people is okay with you."

Yeah I feel so much better.
 
Jan 20, 2010
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Such a new bill would still need to go through the House, right? I have a feeling it doesn't go nearly far enough for the most conservative House members
 

iammeiam

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Dec 28, 2006
10,664
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He didn't vote for the bill. He voted for a motion to proceed. Huge difference. Let's see what happens with the actual bill first. He actually talked about some sort of bipartisanship solution in his speech so if he backs off on this then it's fair game.

All he had to do was call in sick due to brain cancer, and prevent the disaster that is proceeding with a bill literally nobody can accurately describe because what's in it changes from moment to moment.

Trump talks about bipartisan solutions every time he can't railroad something through because a section of the GOP rebels. Thusfar, there has been nothing in the way of actual bipartisanship because Republicans have fallen in line at the end of the day. Nobody's talking about real bipartisanship, they're just setting the table to blame the other side if things go south.

The motion to proceed doesn't benefit the country; the reason we don't know what's in the bill they're proceeding to debate is because every version they've come up with has been too horrific to pass. All McCain had to do was not show up to vote to proceed to debate a bill with mystery content, especially given that you'd think he has other priorities at the moment, but he failed to do that. It's kind of upsetting.
 

Maledict

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Feb 16, 2013
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Such a new bill would still need to go through the House, right? I have a feeling it doesn't go nearly far enough for the most conservative House members

At no stage in this process have the "principles" of the right wing groups in the senate or house been proven to be true. They have both caved and voted for stuff they said they would never vote for. Same with the moderates.
 

Sirpopopop

Member
Jun 7, 2004
7,785
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1,475
Please keep telling me how McCain is a war hero for being imprisoned by Vietnamese fighters fighting for their independece as a nation while he keeps voting to kill millions of his own countrymen.

Come on dude, you're handwaving away torture that was in gross violation of the Geneva Convention. Was Abu Ghraib alright with you?

.
 

Cyrano

Member
Dec 20, 2010
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Yeah, but that isn't really relevant to my point. He was taking about the right-wing spin machines will make this suddenly beloved, and I pointed out a poll from viewers of the most mainstream right-wing spin machine that contradict that.
Just saying that people want the government to work on a better healthcare bill isn't really surprising though. Of course people want better healthcare. But the poll is not people's views of what they want to see in healthcare (single-payer for example), nearly so much as it's a view that people want better healthcare.

People wanting better healthcare has never really been controversial. But what Republicans define as better and what Democrats define as better is very different (though unfortunately, neither group really supports single-payer, which is actually something that would lead to better healthcare - due in part to lobbies, and in part to the malicious thinking by many in the Senate and House that the federal government should literally do nothing - the dumb states' rights thing).
 

excelsiorlef

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Sep 20, 2014
32,454
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He didn't vote for the bill. He voted for a motion to proceed. Huge difference. Let's see what happens with the actual bill first. He actually talked about some sort of bipartisanship solution in his speech so if he backs off on this then it's fair game.

There is no bipartisan solution.

It's bullshit speak.
 
Jan 20, 2010
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Would such a stripped down bill save enough money to be able to follow reconciliation rules and be filibuster proof? Wasn't cutting Medicaid the way in which they were proposing to save money in order to adhere to reconciliation rules?

The Freedom Caucus are just as big of showboaters as Heller, Portman and the rest.

They'll vote for whatever the Senate puts in front of them.

But didn't they cause lots of issues in getting the initial House bill through? Is making a ruckus about it less politically viable after the Senate has voted on it?
 

Maledict

Member
Feb 16, 2013
8,779
1
600
There is no bipartisan solution.

It's bullshit speak.

The thing is - there cannot be a bipartisan solution using this method to pass it. It's literally impossible. No committee hearings, no cBO score, and McConnell gets to have the final amendment that can literally strip everything else away

John McCain literally stood up and said one thing whilst doing the exact opposite with his vote. Let's not beat around the bush here - he's a hypocritical liar.
 

Shauni

Member
May 31, 2011
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But didn't they cause lots of issues in getting the initial House bill through? Is making a ruckus about it less politically viable after the Senate has voted on it?

They did, he's full of shit on that point and has no idea what he's talking about. As for the other part, it is one thing to be the ones in the beginning, but when you're the last thing standing in the way, there's way more pressure. General feeling is they'll cave at the end of the day when it comes down.
 

Shauni

Member
May 31, 2011
8,598
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Just saying that people want the government to work on a better healthcare bill isn't really surprising though. Of course people want better healthcare. But the poll is not people's views of what they want to see in healthcare (single-payer for example), nearly so much as it's a view that people want better healthcare.

People wanting better healthcare has never really been controversial. But what Republicans define as better and what Democrats define as better is very different (though unfortunately, neither group really supports single-payer, which is actually something that would lead to better healthcare - due in part to lobbies, and in part to the malicious thinking by many in the Senate and House that the federal government should literally do nothing - the dumb states' rights thing).

That's a long version of just saying, "I agree" lol, because that's exactly what I was saying. The part you zeroed, you just kind of missed the overall context in relation to what he was saying.
 

Kusagari

Member
Dec 29, 2005
47,639
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Gainesville FL
They did, he's full of shit on that point and has no idea what he's talking about. As for the other part, it is one thing to be the ones in the beginning, but when you're the last thing standing in the way, there's way more pressure. General feeling is they'll cave at the end of the day when it comes down.

Where did I say they weren't causing problems on the house bill?

They did, but they also had everyone falling over themselves to please them. It's not like they ever had a true "put up and shut up" vote and voted against a bill.

When the end of Obamacare is put in front of them, they're not going to quibble over things. They're going to vote for it.
 

Glix

Member
Jan 28, 2008
10,359
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955
New York
The thing is - there cannot be a bipartisan solution using this method to pass it. It's literally impossible. No committee hearings, no cBO score, and McConnell gets to have the final amendment that can literally strip everything else away

John McCain literally stood up and said one thing whilst doing the exact opposite with his vote. Let's not beat around the bush here - he's a hypocritical liar.

FYI if they don't get it scored they need to get 60 or kill the filibuster.

I strongly believe that neither of those things will happen, so whatever garbage they come up with WILL be scored. Thats why its nice for them that they have been undermining the CBO in their talking points for a few months now.