Support NeoGAF

[Deku]

Financial failure? It put up 150k in Japan and far more in USA and is yet to be released in Europe.

I don't see the failure anywhere. I see an awesome new IP that is getting way many good critics from both press and users, that sold ok in Japan, that its selling better in USA and that has yet to see how it sells in Europe to measure its financial success.

How can it be an awesome new IP when the studio is closed.

 

[LanceStern]

You guys called Okami a failure because it only did ~ 150k in Japan. You guys had your own standards in mind, they didn't meet them so everyone cried BOMBA. Almost everyone does this on GAF who likes sales.

STANDARDS will always be here, I just voice mine ^_^

Capcom to dissolve Clover Studio
Company set up to "inspire the future of gaming" to be shuttered in March 2007.
By Emma Boyes, GameSpot UK
Posted Oct 12, 2006 9:43 am PT
Capcom today announced plans to dissolve its wholly owned Clover Studio after a decision made at the publisher's Board of Directors meeting.

Originally established in July 2004, the studio's lineup of critically acclaimed titles included the quirky action game Viewtiful Joe, as well as a pair of games that saw release only in the US: the Japanese-folklore-inspired Okami and the tongue-in-cheek brawler God Hand.

Clover Studio employed an all-star lineup of Capcom development talent, including Atsushi Inaba (producer of Steel Battalion and Viewtiful Joe), Shinji Mikami (Resident Evil creator), and Hideki Kamiya (Devil May Cry director).

The developer was based in Osaka, Japan, where Capcom itself is also headquartered. Clover Studio was so named as an abbreviation of "creativity lover" and because "the four-leaf clover...signifies happiness and creativity." The company was set up to make innovative games that would "inspire the future of gaming."

The announcement came as a shock to many, with the reason for the dissolution stated in the press release as follows: "Clover Studio Co., Ltd. has met the goal of developing unique and creative original home video game software, however, in view of promoting a business strategy that concentrates management resources on a selected business to enhance the efficiency of the development power of the entire Capcom group, the dissolution of Clover Studios Co., Ltd. has been raised and passed at a Board of Directors' meeting." The company will be officially dissolved at the end of March 2007.
Capcom also released a notice of revision of earnings and dividend forecast. The report explained that although there had been favourable growth in sales of Dead Rising, the Mega Man Battle Chip Stadium arcade game had not performed well.

The dissolution of Clover Studio comes after Capcom pulled themselves out of spiralling losses. In 2003 they announced losses of $163 million and shelved plans for 18 previously scheduled games. However, the company appeared to have bounced back and reported a healthy $7.02 million profit in this year's first quarter.

Capcom added on the end of the press release: "The impact of the dissolution of Clover Studio Co., Ltd. on the financial forecasts, separately announced on the same day, is inclusive as part of Extraordinary Losses amounting to 400 million yen," or approximately $3.5 million.

And if I'm reading that right, it looks like Capcom LOST money by closing Clover...

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

How can it be an awesome new IP when the studio is closed.

Yes, you can play the stupid way to ignore the rest of the post but that.

It is a new IP, its not an old IP. Sure its not a franchise or a series, its a new game and a new intelectual property for Capcom.

 

[LanceStern]

How can it be an awesome new IP when the studio is closed.

Because Capcom is incompetent. They've shut down how many studios, voiced their envy of which titles, mispredicted how many game-sales predictions (RE0, RE4, Onimusha, DMC2), lost how much money and cancelled how many projects for it to be said?

I'm thinking the only thing keeping them alive is their ability to milk their great franchises. But Dead Rising and Lost Planet is a good start... Okami, Killer 7, PN03 and Viewtiful Joe might've been

 

[Deku]

Yes, you can play the stupid way to ignore the rest of the post but that.

It is a new IP, its not an old IP. Sure its not a franchise or a series, its a new game and a new intelectual property for Capcom.

I misread your post. Thought you mean new series/franchise.

I take back my comment.

 

[LanceStern]

Yes, you can play the stupid way to ignore the rest of the post but that

Though I might be out of line in saying this depending on your... um... alliance but, now you see what I have to go through.

Have a few decent points? Balderdash if they can find one small contestable comment in there.

Everyone has standards and I showed it with GoW, FFXII, Zelda, etc... but I accidently bring up the Okami scenario and the whole thing is ignored

 

[Galactic Fork]

Brain training
enlish training
brain training 2
general knowledge training
kanji test
kanji brain
love and berry
big brain academy
kanji dictionary
brain stress:head scan
iq supply
cooking navi
1000 DS recipes

I'm on the fence with nintendogs and clubhouse games

I can't speak for english training, but the bolded training games are games in every stretch of the imagination. Can you explain how they aren't games please?

 

[Grampa Simpson]

I can't speak for english training, but the bolded training games are games in every stretch of the imagination. Can you explain how they aren't games please?

He probably hasn't played them.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

I mean, lets just not think for a moment, if Okami is a bomb because it sold just 150k in Japan, I wonder what Lost Planet and Dead Rising are!


Oh no! Dead Rising isn't a bomb because it did awesome in USA and Europe? Then why don't we wait to see how Okami sells in USA and Europe? Isn't that the new Capcom way of success? Or does that work just sometimes?

I can see too that Okami didn't do awesome in Japan, in fact, it did worse than most other Capcom big guys on PS2...but you are not even waiting for the European release. PS2 titles have a lot of shelf life actually, see how RE4 looked like it won't beat GC version and actually it has done it and went quite ahead.

If Okami does in Europe as good as in NA, with a budget re-release later in 2007, I can see it breaking 1m ww easily.

 

[LanceStern]

Why do we go through this all the time? They aren't traditional games...

It's a game about testing how big your brain is with Sudoku, talking in a mic, COUNTING syllables, counting CUBES stacked in strange ways, finding patterns, reading out loud, tracing lines etc. It's a test to stimulate your brain. There's no action, there's no story, there's no climax, no pro/antagonists, no finish....

I mean sports and puzzle games can almost been seen like that, but like I said before they've been accepted as traditional gaming and even those can have stories etc..

These titles were MADE with a non-gamer market in mind and you guys know that. Gosh you guys just like going over the most pointless stuff time and time again.

And how can you say I haven't played them when I made the topic about what's your fastest CALCULATION x20 score on GAF?

 

[Deku]

I mean, lets just not think for a moment, if Okami is a bomb because it sold just 150k in Japan, I wonder what Lost Planet and Dead Rising are!

Those are 360 games and MSFT doesnt mind spending money to get those games, and Lost PLanet is certainly not an Okami quality wise, but it will probably appeal tot he 360 base.

Bottom line is Okami isn't a smashing success, not even by Capcom standards.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Why do we go through this all the time? They aren't traditional games...

It's a game about testing how big your brain is with Sudoku, talking in a mic, COUNTING syllables, counting CUBES stacked in strange ways, finding patterns, reading out loud, tracing lines etc. It's a test to stimulate your brain. There's no action, there's no story, there's no climax, no pro/antagonists, no finish....

I mean sports and puzzle games can almost been seen like that, but like I said before they've been accepted as traditional gaming and even those can have stories etc..

These titles were MADE with a non-gamer market in mind and you guys know that. Gosh you guys just like going over the most pointless stuff time and time again.

And how can you say I haven't played them when I made the topic about what's your fastest CALCULATION x20 score on GAF?

I bet that if you fought the giant, disembodied head of Professor Kamashima at the end with a giant sword, Lance would say it's a game.

 

[A Link to the Past]

And you're being dumb, Lance.

Elite Beat Agents was put into the Touch! Generations lineup, so is it not a game? Several non-gaming friends and family members have gotten into it, so is it not a game?

Are you implying that non-gamers, at no point in their lives, will play a "real" video game?

 

[BorkBork]

:lol Here we go again.

 

[LanceStern]

I remember back when Okami launched in Sept. before the NPD it had like 88,000. I'd estimate it was near 200k by now but without hard numbers...

 

[A Link to the Past]

I remember back when Okami launched in Sept. before the NPD it had like 88,000. I'd estimate it was near 200k by now but without hard numbers...

Wow, how subjective

How much money did it cost to make? How much money did it make?

Until we know that, we should assume that a company that usually makes flops was closed down for that reason.

 

[P90]

Brain training
enlish training
brain training 2
general knowledge training
kanji test
kanji brain
love and berry
big brain academy
kanji dictionary
brain stress:head scan
iq supply
cooking navi
1000 DS recipes

I'm on the fence with nintendogs and clubhouse games

So then Scrabble, Trivial Pursuits, Jeopardy, Battleship, Yahtzee aren't "games" either.

 

[LanceStern]

And you're being dumb, Lance.

Elite Beat Agents was put into the Touch! Generations lineup, so is it not a game? Several non-gaming friends and family members have gotten into it, so is it not a game?

Are you implying that non-gamers, at no point in their lives, will play a "real" video game?

Why the hell are you trying to stretch my words. Of course non-gamers will play a "real" videogame sooner or later thanks to non-games like Brain age and Common sense age etc dragging them into it. I mean 4 million traditional gamers aren't buying New Super Mario Bros. in Japan. SOme of that cut is non-gamers or lapsed gamers.

Doesn't EBA have a story? Doesn't it have pro/antagonists? Doesn't it have a climax? Doesn't it have a designated ending?

AND BEFORE YOU TRY AND USE THAT AGAINST ME THAT'S NOT JUST THE SOLE, END ALL BE ALL DEFINITION OF A REAL GAME

I didn't say titles like EBA or DDR aren't games, but Brain training and the like are certainly not traditional or real games.

 

[LanceStern]

So then Scrabble, Trivial Pursuits, Jeopardy, Battleship, Yahtzee aren't "games" either.

You guys really are impossible aren't you?

And I bet a lot of people in this thread would agree that the list I made (exceptions to some people) listed a good amount of "non-games". It's just no-one would really like to step up and agree, lest they be seen as treason for siding with a madman.

I could have gotten so much work done today. Darn sales numbers

 

[A Link to the Past]

Why the hell are you trying to stretch my words. Of course non-gamers will play a "real" videogame sooner or later thanks to non-games like Brain age and Common sense age etc dragging them into it. I mean 4 million traditional gamers aren't buying New Super Mario Bros. in Japan. SOme of that cut is non-gamers or lapsed gamers.

Doesn't EBA have a story? Doesn't it have pro/antagonists? Doesn't it have a climax? Doesn't it have a designated ending?

AND BEFORE YOU TRY AND USE THAT AGAINST ME THAT'S NOT JUST THE SOLE, END ALL BE ALL DEFINITION OF A REAL GAME

I didn't say titles like EBA or DDR aren't games, but Brain training and the like are certainly not traditional or real games.

So Brain Age = imaginary?

By the way, you have basically stated that Tetris and Madden are not real games.

 

[xsarien]

Dear LanceStern,
Before you continue digging that wonderfully large hole of yours, perhaps you'd like to dial it back a bit and define "game."

xoxo,
me

 

[Souldriver]

Why the hell are you trying to stretch my words. Of course non-gamers will play a "real" videogame sooner or later thanks to non-games like Brain age and Common sense age etc dragging them into it. I mean 4 million traditional gamers aren't buying New Super Mario Bros. in Japan. SOme of that cut is non-gamers or lapsed gamers.

Doesn't EBA have a story? Doesn't it have pro/antagonists? Doesn't it have a climax? Doesn't it have a designated ending?

AND BEFORE YOU TRY AND USE THAT AGAINST ME THAT'S NOT JUST THE SOLE, END ALL BE ALL DEFINITION OF A REAL GAME

I didn't say titles like EBA or DDR aren't games, but Brain training and the like are certainly not traditional or real games.

Can't you just leave it at non-tradional games like you said at the end of your post? Then the argument would stop.

 

[LanceStern]

So Brain Age = imaginary?

By the way, you have basically stated that Tetris and Madden are not real games.

What part of

I mean sports and puzzle games can almost been seen like that, but like I said before they've been accepted as traditional gaming and even those can have stories etc..

AND BEFORE YOU TRY AND USE THAT AGAINST ME THAT'S NOT JUST THE SOLE, END ALL BE ALL DEFINITION OF A REAL GAME

Don't you understand?
You're a waste of time to talk to now.

 

[Branduil]

It wouldn't be a Media Create thread without Lance's insanity.

 

[LanceStern]

Yea I think that might be the solution Souldriver. Nongamer is faster to type.

Non-traditional game, LttS.

Are you Link to the Past? Because how did you get your SN changed?

 

[AniHawk]

Because how did you get your SN changed?

He told the NPD about GAF.

 

[BorkBork]

Wouldn't it just be easier for you to give up your nebulous definition of a non-game?

 

[LanceStern]

Are there any new releases out next week for MC?

 

[LanceStern]

Wouldn't it just be easier for you to give up your nebulous definition of a non-game?

No it wouldn't. Because there'd be no way to define a large amount of touch generation games and their success.

If they were "traditional" games, they wouldn't be selling as crazy as they do in Japan and other places. They wouldn't appeal to the type of audience these titles are because "traditional" games don't all of a sudden open new fanbases and produce 3- 3 million sellers in Japan, some being > Dragon Quest Monsters: the biggest franchise in Japan.

There's no way "traditional" games could do that... except for some reason Mario, the father of gaming ^_^

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Lance's perception of games falls squarely in the red area, with a little bit of the light blue barely registering to him.

He should read this article. Maybe it will help.

 

[lordfroakie]

Never mind

 

[Galactic Fork]

It's a game about testing how big your brain is with Sudoku, talking in a mic, COUNTING syllables, counting CUBES stacked in strange ways, finding patterns, reading out loud, tracing lines etc. It's a test to stimulate your brain. There's no action, there's no story, there's no climax, no pro/antagonists, no finish....

I don't know... In each test there's a beginning, the build up of action as time gets close to being up, the mad dash at the end before time runs out could be the climax. You are the protagonist, the Dr. Kamashima is the antagonist. You are scored, and encouraged to play again to better your score. Seems umm very game-ish to me. Heck, it's much more game like than most of the very first video games.

I mean sports and puzzle games can almost been seen like that, but like I said before they've been accepted as traditional gaming and even those can have stories etc..

See what you did there? You negate everything in paragraph one by stating that none of that is really important, the only important thing is that it's "Accepted as traditional gaming." But now you're left the task as defining "traditional gaming" since obviously it's not the story, protagonist, antagonist, and "action" stuff you were talking about before. Since you negated it.

And nothing's preventing training games from having a story.

These titles were MADE with a non-gamer market in mind and you guys know that. Gosh you guys just like going over the most pointless stuff time and time again.

Actually these titles were MADE to INCLUDE people who don't usually play video games. That's a big difference. Why is trying to broaden an audience a bad thing? Or even negate its value to the base? Many gamers find them fun, why isn't that enough?

They are Quiz games, (I'd put it in as a subgenre of puzzle games), and frankly the genre is much more appealing to me than many genres of what you call real games. The only difference is that I don't go around claiming that FPSs aren't real games and downplay their success or tout it as a sign of the end times (I can't immediately recall you ever saying that so if you haven't, it doesn't include you, but others who always bring up nongames have).

OK... I'm done ranting.

 

[A Link to the Past]

What part of




Don't you understand?
You're a waste of time to talk to now.

Right

So being popular means that it can ignore your subjective and idiotic rules that don't apply to hundreds of different video games.

 

[LanceStern]

Actually these titles were MADE to INCLUDE people who don't usually play video games. That's a big difference. Why is trying to broaden an audience a bad thing? Or even negate its value to the base? Many gamers find them fun, why isn't that enough?

They are Quiz games, (I'd put it in as a subgenre of puzzle games), and frankly the genre is much more appealing to me than many genres of what you call real games. The only difference is that I don't go around claiming that FPSs aren't real games and downplay their success or tout it as a sign of the end times (I can't immediately recall you ever saying that so if you haven't, it doesn't include you, but others who always bring up nongames have).

OK... I'm done ranting.

Were they made to include or CATER to them though. How can a brain-training game be stated as a game to cater towards people who like FPS, Racers etc. It seems as if they are going for outsiders, non-traditional gamers more than regular gamers. And in that processes, enticing gamers to check and see what the title is about.

I mean, the Brain trainings weren't even ADVERTISED as games. But a different type of game: non-traditional ones.

I guess the shortened "non-game" term just isn't um.... can't think of the word... productive

 

[lordfroakie]

Were they made to include or CATER to them though. How can a brain-training game be stated as a game to cater towards people who like FPS, Racers etc. It seems as if they are going for outsiders, non-traditional gamers more than regular gamers. And in that processes, enticing gamers to check and see what the title is about.

I mean, the Brain trainings weren't even ADVERTISED as games. But a different type of game: non-traditional ones.

I guess the shortened "non-game" term just isn't um.... can't think of the word... productive

http://www.geocities.jp/gyakugene/Obj_God.swf?InputStr=<_<

 

[A Link to the Past]

Were they made to include or CATER to them though. How can a brain-training game be stated as a game to cater towards people who like FPS, Racers etc. It seems as if they are going for outsiders, non-traditional gamers more than regular gamers. And in that processes, enticing gamers to check and see what the title is about.

I mean, the Brain trainings weren't even ADVERTISED as games. But a different type of game: non-traditional ones.

I guess the shortened "non-game" term just isn't um.... can't think of the word... productive

Dur? FPS and Racers are not the only ****ing genres in gaming.

So basically, it doesn't matter that BBA/Brain Age have no less gameplay than Tetris, because they're only games if people "accept them as one".

Be a part of the ****ing solution, stop using the term non-games

 

[mj1108]

Someone buy Lance "Common Sense Training" and "Logic Training".

Were they made to include or CATER to them though. How can a brain-training game be stated as a game to cater towards people who like FPS, Racers etc. It seems as if they are going for outsiders, non-traditional gamers more than regular gamers. And in that processes, enticing gamers to check and see what the title is about.

No shit, sherlock.

Nintendo said they were going after "everyone".

 

[Galactic Fork]

Were they made to include or CATER to them though. How can a brain-training game be stated as a game to cater towards people who like FPS, Racers etc. It seems as if they are going for outsiders, non-traditional gamers more than regular gamers. And in that processes, enticing gamers to check and see what the title is about.

Here, I will explain this clearly and simply. Video games have different genres. Each genre has fans, and these fans are able (somehow) to enjoy more than one genre. Me personally? I like Puzzle games, RPGs (S, J, and some W), survival horror, adventure games and Flight Sims (mostly space, but some air) the most. And FPSs just don't appeal to me at all. Do you get mad that an RPG doesn't cater to FPS fans? Expecting a game to cater to a specific genre it's not a part of is rather silly.

As I said before, I'd put the training games closer to puzzle games.

I mean, the Brain trainings weren't even ADVERTISED as games. But a different type of game: non-traditional ones.

That really makes no sense.

I guess the shortened "non-game" term just isn't um.... can't think of the word... productive

Yes because non-game = not a game, which is just wrong. And the fact that you were questioning whether table top games were "games" because of who it was aimed at proves this.

 

[Kobun Heat]

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

:lol

 

[Parl]

Brain training
enlish training
brain training 2
general knowledge training
kanji test
kanji brain
love and berry
big brain academy
kanji dictionary
brain stress:head scan
iq supply
cooking navi
1000 DS recipes

I'm on the fence with nintendogs and clubhouse games

Only the training software and Nintendogs are non-games on that list, mister. And even then, the Nintendogs titles are games if you count them seperately.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Only the training software and Nintendogs are non-games on that list, mister. And even then, the Nintendogs titles are games if you count them seperately.

Brain Age/BBA/Nintendogs are games.

 

[Parl]

It's impossible for a game to sell over 1,000,000 on DS. Nintendogs is a game, I agree. But Nintendogs total is simply not.

 

[Galactic Fork]

Brain Age/BBA/Nintendogs are games.

I'm pretty sure he was joking because if a game sales REALLY well for the DS there are 50 jokes about them being non-games now. I'm assuming that because nintendogs only enters the REALLY well category if you combine them.

 

[Branduil]

:lol

 

[Scottlarock]

awesome! :lol does the mom have a penis?:lol

 

[AniHawk]

:lol

 

[starship]

Traslation: "Bluedragon was...."i am spouting bs, but it's big bs, and i like bs. Oh, bs, how great you are, I love using you in the internet, my sources are not clear, but my bs people will fear....la la la la....here's some more bs for you....thought I was done? haha...i've just begun...wait a minute and more bs will come...I don't have sources, my numbers are wrong, but i'll keep playing the bs song...bs bs how great you are, you give me voice, i am a bs superstar"

The end.

Just STFU douche, you are the worst clown I've ever seen in my whole life.
And this is just for fun, some quotes from you dumbass:

Japan likes GOW more than Europe confimed?

:lol

BD turn-around confirmed?

Last week I was getting flamed for saying that BD may have helped turn things around for the 360. While the 360 is still below the Xbox's LTD at this point, the original Xbox never had 4 weeks in a row like this in Japan a year after it came out. Most people dismissed the idea that this could happen as soon as BD fell off the charts, but I think that's because most people were unrealistically expecting the game to sell 500k and give the 360 a 300k boost in hardware. This, however, is more in line with what I was expecting. BD may be off the charts, but it has not stopped selling, and it has not stopped moving hardware. It's just simply selling very small amounts but it's also selling hardware along with it. It's still too early to call but if the 360 doesn't drop back to 2-3k next week(we should know tomorrow) that would pretty much solidify it, especially considering how much the other two systems dropped in comparison.

So now that X360 didn't drop below 3k, BD turn around confirmed, even if we know the fact that first week of the year is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) weeks of the year in Japan.

The Wii took a huge drop-off. So do you guys think it's safe to say supply is now > demand for both PS3 and Wii in Japan?

Yeah, pretty much its drop off related to its demand not its supply (which various sources such as IGN claimed there were no Wiis in Japan at that time.)

I agree. It seems now there's plenty of supply for both systems. So tomorrow's numbers should be the first "real" numbers after the dust settled.

Plenty of Wiis?
:lol :lol

I can't wait to see how the Wii's popularity holds up(although this week should bring up a red flag), how the price of the PS3 will affect its sales, and finally if I am right in that the 360 won't fall back down to 2k a week again.

Yeah you are right genius, and everyone else expected that 360 would drop below 2k in the biggest week of the year. :lol

I really don't think 1 million units over 6 YEARS is being far too optimistic. It all comes down to the games really. So let's face it, 475k people bought the Xbox, with half of them to just play DOA. The other half I think were probably the same guys buying a second console to replace the first one to play DOA, because I can't think of what else they bought it for. The 360, oth, has currently one of the best rpg line-ups, which Japanese love. I certainly think that if it can manage to get 3-4 strong rpgs exclusive or at least time exclusive on the system, along with DOA5, it will do 1 million over 6 years.

240k sales for DoA3 in Japan confirmed, according to dumbo mumbo jimbo.

Oh and how would the naysayers explain the 360 in Japan if it indeed manages to stay around the same numbers for the first week of the year?[/B]

We can't say anything except you are full of shit and know nothing about sales trends.

So to re-cap:

360 > Wii +PS3
GOW LTD > Wii + GC Zelda LTD
and finally.....

PS3 = 68% of shipped = Jimbo(price matters) > GAF 2006 (price doesn't matter)


I still can't believe how stupid those arguments were.

Just how much does price matter? I repeat: the freaking PS3 sold 68% of its total shipment its 2nd month after launch! Even I who expected this to happen, didn't expect it to happen so soon.

Yeah, because:
1. There are no other countries in NA. (1m in NA =! 1m in US)
2. No one here knows what Sony shipment numbers means. (in terms of Sony's numbers, shipment = units which leave production facilities)
3. NPD covered through Dec. 31th (which is not the case and a lot of those shipments made available on that day, Dec. 31th)

Seriously, just STFU.

 

[A Link to the Past]

It's impossible for a game to sell over 1,000,000 on DS. Nintendogs is a game, I agree. But Nintendogs total is simply not.

All versions of Nintendogs have sold 1 million copies.

 

[Chris_C]

Does anyone have any idea what the Japanese or total worldwide sales for MGSO are like?