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Media Create Sales: Week 10, 2013 (Mar 04 - Mar 10)

Alrus

Member
Apr 4, 2010
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595
Belgium
It's plain as day.
Not really. Comparing a game that isn't in a particularly popular genre (aside from DMC) releasing on a platform that isn't particularly starved from that kind of game, to a game in the most popular genre in Japan right now, on a platform starved from interesting exclusive makes no sense.
 

donny2112

Member
Apr 18, 2005
18,797
1
0
In Media Create, Soul Sacrifice sold 92,396 of the single pack (including bundles) and 22,050 of the double pack. If people want to mix that up and say it sold 136K copies, they can, but it's not going to change the numbers we track or that get posted in the thread. Same as people who keep track of the approximate number of eShop Animal Crossing sales. They can say AC has sold 3.5m, but that's not going to change the numbers in the OP. Both are useful concepts to keep track of, but they're not going to replace the official numbers.
 

Kid Ying

Member
Mar 17, 2010
1,943
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To get it straight. I´m not calling everyone who disagrees with me fanboys, only the trolling users with an obvious bias like Dave.
I don't think Smokydave is trolling. He's biased, but he never tried to disguise that. There's a lot of users much worse in that area for both sides of the coin.

Either way, in Media create's site, they got the rest of the top 50.
 

AranhaHunter

Banned
Mar 20, 2006
10,669
0
0
First day sellthrough

Super Robot Wars - 50-60%
Sword Art Online - sold out
Kingdom Hearts - 50%
God of War - no one cares
Darkstalkers (PS3 version) - 50-60%
I care. Was the number not given or did you just put that there?

PSP HW increase this week? Would be funny for the 2nd week in a row.

Yeah, Kagari was the other GAFfer I was referring to. I was just reluctant to call out a mod.

During the run-up to TGS 2011, she also made a handful of posts hyping up her insider knowledge of a Final Fantasy game for Vita as though it were a major exclusive that would go a long way towards erasing doubts about the platform's third-party support. Oops!
I still remember her old tag. Though, to be fair to her, famous, and even Mielke, even Shuhei Yoshida has hyped up a couple of events that turned out to be nothing at all. I distinctively remember him saying "watch this event if you're a vita owner" or something and then I think Vita was mentioned maybe once lol. I'm pretty sure that was before the PS4 unveil too.

Working in IT, though in another industry, I know things change and change fast. A couple of years back I worked on a project that turned out to be obsolete and never released. Most of the decision had been made some months prior but we only got the word way after everything was set and done. It's possible that those folks heard something was coming but then the higher ups changed that, even though people were working on the product at the time.

I do understand what you're saying though, if you say you're an insider and make the wrong call, then you're not really credible anymore. If I were an insider I would be 100% sure before I leaked stuff, though to be honest I probably wouldn't leak a damn thing.
 

Laguna

Banned
Dec 29, 2004
1,674
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OmegaTreeFish is actually being pretty nice to you, Laguna. Do not waste his kindness by calling him beyond stupid.
I didn´t call him stupid, but his defences for a troll post that deliberately ignored part of a sentence and changed the meaning of words (some -> significant number) just to have an excuse to troll are beyond stupid.
 

SmokyDave

Member
Dec 8, 2008
35,663
33
825
England
In Media Create, Soul Sacrifice sold 92,396 of the single pack (including bundles) and 22,050 of the double pack. If people want to mix that up and say it sold 136K copies, they can, but it's not going to change the numbers we track or that get posted in the thread. Same as people who keep track of the approximate number of eShop Animal Crossing sales. They can say AC has sold 3.5m, but that's not going to change the numbers in the OP. Both are useful concepts to keep track of, but they're not going to replace the official numbers.
I don't really get the confusion on this issue. The double pack is a single SKU. If you sold two of that SKU, you sold two of that SKU even if that means four actual games. It's interesting to know how they're counted from a potential userbase point of view, but it's obvious how the numbers should work. One barcode, one sale.

I didn´t call him stupid, but his defences for a troll post that deliberately ignored part of a sentence and changed the meaning of words (some -> significant number) just to have an excuse to troll are beyond stupid.
I've never pretended to be impartial, but I'm not a troll. My objection to your pointless comparisons and pointless speculation was genuine. If 'some' wasn't significant in any manner, why even bother mentioning it?
 

OmegaTreeFish

Banned
Feb 8, 2012
5,018
0
0
I didn´t call him stupid, but his defences for a troll post that deliberately ignored part of a sentence and changed the meaning of words (some -> significant number) just to have an excuse to troll are beyond stupid.
But thats not what I said. Read it again.

And it wasn't a defence. It was possible reasons for confusion over what you wrote.
 

Skyzard

Banned
Jun 3, 2012
20,772
0
0
In Media Create, Soul Sacrifice sold 92,396 of the single pack (including bundles) and 22,050 of the double pack. If people want to mix that up and say it sold 136K copies, they can, but it's not going to change the numbers we track or that get posted in the thread. Same as people who keep track of the approximate number of eShop Animal Crossing sales. They can say AC has sold 3.5m, but that's not going to change the numbers in the OP. Both are useful concepts to keep track of, but they're not going to replace the official numbers.
I bet digital sales are closer to 40% for SS.

Not really. Comparing a game that isn't in a particularly popular genre (aside from DMC) releasing on a platform that isn't particularly starved from that kind of game, to a game in the most popular genre in Japan right now, on a platform starved from interesting exclusive makes no sense.
How about the MGS franchise, is that not popular there? And not to forget the competition from 3DS MH but yeah the fact that SS is a hunting game on a handheld did help in Japan too. The PS3 has been relatively dry otherwise since Rising's first week sales was an example of a good seller in general for the PS3 in Japan recently - which will take into account the PS3 userbase. I'm sure some of the SS sales were from new customers too though. Still all in all, great numbers for Vita/SS, especially if they don't drop too much next week.
 
Sep 15, 2011
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Probably sold -100K digitally. People bought in retail and returned it digitally by shoving the cartridge completely through their PS Vita. OP should say 17K SS sold, then.
I have read this sentence 3 times and I still don't know what you are talking about.

Edit: Over my head joke :)
 

frankie_baby

Member
May 3, 2007
18,401
0
0
I bet digital sales are closer to 40% for SS.



How about the MGS franchise, is that not popular there? And not to forget the competition from MH but yeah the fact that SS is a hunting game on a handheld did help in Japan too. The PS3 has been relatively dry otherwise since Rising's first week sales was an example of a good seller for the PS3 in Japan recently. I'm sure some of the SS sales were from new customers too though :p
Sorry but SS is a new unproven IP there's no way like that many people would buy it digitally and thus miss out on the chance to sell it back
 

Call Me Maybe

Banned
Dec 31, 2012
839
0
0
Overall, everything did well this week. I am especially glad at how well the PS Vita and Soul Sacrifice did (and it looks like once you add all the digital and double pack numbers, my initial prediction of 150k units wasn't far of). What's next on the horizon for PSV? Dead or Alive 5+? Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2+?

The 3DS is doing well, but the last few weeks have gone by without a major software release, and this is reflected in both the hardware charts (where it conceded first place to the Vita for the first time ever) and the software charts (where it's mostly just Animal Crossing). Thankfully, the stream of releases picks up again soon, and I'm not too worried about the 3DS.

Wii U... damn, Nintendo. This is clearly a console that, from the in house software perspective, was released too early, rushed to the market to gain a potential year head start which you've only squandered, and from a third party software perspective, released at least a couple of years too late. I think the system itself as well as its value proposition, is flawed, although I do see it doing well in the end largely because of Nintendo's full software backing. I think. I hope.
 

Skyzard

Banned
Jun 3, 2012
20,772
0
0
Sorry but SS is a new unproven IP there's no way like that many people would buy it digitally and thus miss out on the chance to sell it back
There was a demo long ago as well as the hype, it also coincided with what, a 100K boost in sales over 2 weeks? Which is... like 600% of normal sales? I think it's fair to say it was somewhat responsible for quite a few Vitas sold - people tend not to worry about the game (they bought a system for) being too naff. Not to mention it's a known addictive genre with players often spending many, many hours on it - I have a feeling they'd know that.

For reference, with a relatively short game like AC:L (which had/has a steep price), digital sales were reportedly 20% (of 600K). Their 20% is worldwide though iirc and I don't know how often Japan buys digitally on new handhelds. Still, you'd think it would be a higher percentage than AC, which is much more of a one-off. I wouldn't be shocked if it was 40%, although of course I'd be pleased.


[Btw guys, let's remember it's friday afternoon for some of us :p].
 

eighty(one)

Member
Jul 8, 2012
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*squeee* all you want, but if you can't come up with a relevant example to the topic how am I supposed to take your argument seriously?

Do I think that hardware bundles should count for sales? Yes, so long as they are not the only SKU of the hardware available. If there is more than one SKU available and customers are not disadvantaged by buying the one without the game, other than the game itself, I don't see why they shouldn't be counted. There's a strong argument that those consumers are purchasing the bundle for the game, in that case, and would have bought the game even if it wasn't bundled.

Do I think that selling two copies of the same game as 1 'pack' should count as two sales? No.



Is that a sufficiently long post for you, ohlawd?
Saying every hardware + game bundle should count also as a software sale, is not entirely accurate.

2/5 = I picked up my physical Fire Emblem physical copy + art book.

2/8 = I purchased the FE 3DS. I purchased the system because of the FE custom design and color. The system is bundled with a digital copy of the game, which is downloaded from the Eshop. I never had any intentions of buying the game digitally. That the system came with the game, meant nothing to me, I already had my physical copy already - and I wanted the system itself. I system transferred from my XL and currently use my FE system solely.

I still have yet to download the free copy of bundled game.

In my case, I didn't give a piss about the software, but it was provided regardless.

What I am getting at, is the only way to get a certain system (color or design), in many cases, is with a bundled game. Not every one wants or will use said game. It's the system they want.

The same can be said for the SS 2 pack. I agree with being a single sku. I do not agree that it is one copy sold. It costs more than the single copy, and is 2 games (exact same) with a slight discount incentive.

My 3DS was $199 (w/ said unredeemed game), saving $10 if I had purchased each individually. I had already purchased the physical game days earlier - I play that. I wasn't given a choice of separating the system - to get the system, the game came along with it. I wanted the system - I don't think I should count as 2 FE game sales, then a seeing I wanted and use one.


This is getting beyond stupid now. You can make any excuse you want but at least in my vocabulary "some" doesn´t mean " significant number" and a quick look at your post history reveals why you seem so emotionaly invested when people openly say that they aren´t impressed by SSs sales performance.
Ummm...pot meet kettle?
 
Sep 15, 2011
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There was a demo long ago as well as the hype, it also coincided with what, a 100K boost in sales over 2 weeks? Which is... like 600% of normal sales? I think it's fair to say it was somewhat responsible for quite a few Vitas sold - people tend not to worry about the game (they bought a system for) being too naff. Not to mention it's a known addictive genre with players often spending many, many hours on it - I have a feeling they'd know that.

For reference, with a relatively short game like AC:L (which had/has a steep price), digital sales were reportedly 20% (of 600K). Their 20% is worldwide though iirc and I don't know how often Japan buys digitally on new handhelds. Still, you'd think it would be a higher percentage than AC, which is much more of a one-off. I wouldn't be shocked if it was 40%, although of course I'd be pleased.
That ninja boob game released the week before SS had about 20k DD sales, roughly 20% of total sales. So I think 20% is a good baseline, however, it could have been higher for SS because of the demo and just from the cooperative nature of the game.
 

DaBoss

Member
Dec 5, 2012
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There was a demo long ago as well as the hype, it also coincided with what, a 100K boost in sales over 2 weeks? Which is... like 600% of normal sales? I think it's fair to say it was somewhat responsible for quite a few Vitas sold - people tend not to worry about the game (they bought a system for) being too naff. Not to mention it's a known addictive genre with players often spending many, many hours on it - I have a feeling they'd know that.

For reference, with a relatively short game like AC:L (which had/has a steep price), digital sales were reportedly 20% (of 600K). Their 20% is worldwide though iirc and I don't know how often Japan buys digitally on new handhelds. Still, you'd think it would be a higher percentage than AC, which is much more of a one-off. I wouldn't be shocked if it was 40%, although of course I'd be pleased.


[Btw guys, let's remember it's friday afternoon for some of us :p].
I'm sorry to say this bluntly, but an digital numbers/percentages you're saying for SS is all from your ass. It isn't as easy as X sold this much in digital, so that means Y sold that much. They have to come out and say it.
 

Nekki

Member
Aug 31, 2011
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570
I don't really get the confusion on this issue. The double pack is a single SKU. If you sold two of that SKU, you sold two of that SKU even if that means four actual games. It's interesting to know how they're counted from a potential userbase point of view, but it's obvious how the numbers should work. One barcode, one sale.


I've never pretended to be impartial, but I'm not a troll. My objection to your pointless comparisons and pointless speculation was genuine. If 'some' wasn't significant in any manner, why even bother mentioning it?
You can also look at it from a revenue perspective. The double pack is 2000 yen more expensive than the normal game which is -rounded up by 20 yen- 6000.

That means every 3 double packs that are sold, 4 games -revenue wise- are sold to customers, but 6 end up in the hands of a user. This means that 1/3 of the sales are lost.

But I do think it's a great strategy for this type of game, where they surely want to build word-of-mouth, and where local multiplayer is a component of the experience.
 

OmegaTreeFish

Banned
Feb 8, 2012
5,018
0
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You can also look at it from a revenue perspective. The double pack is 2000 yen more expensive than the normal game which is -rounded up by 20 yen- 6000.

That means every 3 double packs that are sold, 4 games -revenue wise- are sold to customers, but 6 end up in the hands of a user. This means that 1/3 of the sales are lost.

But I do think it's a great strategy for this type of game, where they surely want to build word-of-mouth, and where local multiplayer is a component of the experience.
Im kinda surprised they didn't do a 4 pack SKU as well. Its a 4 player game after all. If its popular among friends to play these games together over there it would prob sell.

Steam sometimes do this. They did for L4D2 I seem to recall.
 

Skyzard

Banned
Jun 3, 2012
20,772
0
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Thanks for the figures Man-is-Obsolete.

I'm sorry to say this bluntly, but an digital numbers/percentages you're saying for SS is all from your ass. It isn't as easy as X sold this much in digital, so that means Y sold that much. They have to come out and say it.
What if next time I come across you speculating with reasons, even when you are clear that's what you're doing, you're getting an 'ass reply' with a 'sorry'. I gave a few more reasons than that too btw. Not that I even believe it's 40%. Probably 60% tbh, it doesn't make sense to buy this retail for most.

30-35%, I don't want to spend all day here :p
 

Father_Brain

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
22,707
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New York, NY
I still remember her old tag. Though, to be fair to her, famous, and even Mielke, even Shuhei Yoshida has hyped up a couple of events that turned out to be nothing at all. I distinctively remember him saying "watch this event if you're a vita owner" or something and then I think Vita was mentioned maybe once lol. I'm pretty sure that was before the PS4 unveil too.

Working in IT, though in another industry, I know things change and change fast. A couple of years back I worked on a project that turned out to be obsolete and never released. Most of the decision had been made some months prior but we only got the word way after everything was set and done. It's possible that those folks heard something was coming but then the higher ups changed that, even though people were working on the product at the time.

I do understand what you're saying though, if you say you're an insider and make the wrong call, then you're not really credible anymore. If I were an insider I would be 100% sure before I leaked stuff, though to be honest I probably wouldn't leak a damn thing.
I get your point, but I think it's less embarrassing/funny when disingenuous or simply inaccurate hype comes from Sony than when it comes from people whose investment in Vita's success seems to be primarily emotional.

Re: SS, I don't see the need for controversy. It debuted strongly for a new IP on a small userbase, no question, but its legs will be the real test of its success.
 

DaBoss

Member
Dec 5, 2012
20,948
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What if next time I come across you speculating with reasons, even when you are clear that's what you're doing, you're getting an 'ass reply' with a 'sorry'. I gave a few more reasons than that too btw. Not that I even believe it's 40%. Probably 60% tbh, it doesn't make sense to buy this retail for most.

30-35%, I don't want to spend all day here :p
You're making up numbers with baseless speculation based on digital sales of other games. I'm not saying it can't be 30%, 20% or even 50%, but the reasoning should be reasonable to make these claims. I'm not sure what other reasoning you had in that post, so sorry that I overlooked it, but can you point it out to me.
 

Skyzard

Banned
Jun 3, 2012
20,772
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You're making up numbers with baseless speculation based on digital sales of other games. I'm not saying it can't be 30%, 20% or even 50%, but the reasoning should be reasonable to make these claims. I'm not sure what other reasoning you had in that post, so sorry that I overlooked it, but can you point it out to me.
Sure, here were my reasons (hopefully better explained) on why I think it's more than likely it sold more (as percentage of the total) digitally than what some games have been reported of selling (20%):

The game itself is considered a system seller. A game therefore that people would less likely be worried about being able to return since it is one they are likely to have a lot of interest in and less likely to want to return (even though it is a new IP). The many videos showing what the game would be like beforehand, as well as the demo itself means it's more likely people know what they are getting into when they buy it too.

It is also considered one of the biggest games for the Vita, so in relation to other titles, you'd particularly want to have this title available for your convenience. Especially when it is a game people know they will put many hours into, and the online and local multiplayer emphasis of the game only plays into that.

[Btw the game's filesize is 2GB, which isn't considered too massive for a Vita title and new users will likely have space for it even on a 4GB card after some purchases.]

Sure there are reason why this might not work out (Japan's particular digital buying habits), but I'd hardly call it talking out my arse.

I also believe the 20% digital baseline is too low for Vita in general. The PSN store beats the PS3's store even with its puny userbase. AC and the boob game aren't digital must-haves by any stretch yet they're the only ones we have had so far, which is why I consider the 20% baseline way too for SS especially. The AC game in particular was rather expensive digitally and despite having hype, it makes way more sense to get the game retail. Its multiplayer was barely existent and the SP wasn't particularly long or reviewed all that well. The boob game doesn't sound good.
 

frankie_baby

Member
May 3, 2007
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0
Sure, here were my reasons (hopefully better explained) on why I think it's more than likely it sold more (as percentage of the total) digitally than what some games have been reported of selling (20%):

The game itself is considered a system seller. A game therefore that people would less likely be worried about being able to return since it is one they are likely to have a lot of interest in and less likely to want to return (even though it is a new IP). The many videos showing what the game would be like beforehand, as well as the demo itself means it's more likely people know what they are getting into when they buy it too.

It is also considered one of the biggest games for the Vita, so in relation to other titles, you'd particularly want to have this title available for your convenience. Especially when it is a game people know they will put many hours into, and the online and local multiplayer emphasis of the game only plays into that.

[Btw the game's filesize is 2GB, which isn't considered too massive for a Vita title and new users will likely have space for it even on a 4GB card after some purchases.]

Sure there are reason why this might not work out (Japan's particular digital buying habits), but I'd hardly call it talking out my arse.

I also believe the 20% digital baseline is too low for Vita in general. The PSN store beats the PS3's store even with its puny userbase. AC and the boob game aren't digital must-haves by any stretch yet they're the only ones we have had so far, which is why I consider the 20% baseline way too for SS especially. The AC game in particular was rather expensive digitally and despite having hype, it makes way more sense to get the game retail. Its multiplayer was barely existent and the SP wasn't particularly long or reviewed all that well. The boob game doesn't sound good.
Using tits as a comparison is flawed as its digital figures have obviously been enlarged (pun intended) by the retail sell outs
 

Afrit

Member
Dec 7, 2012
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I think next weeks SS numbers will warrant more critic, I think they'll fall off a cliff.
Well, It's expected to fall next week anyway. That wouldn't be shocking.
It will be more shocking if it didn't chart at all next week. Then someone will commit a seppuku xD

But If SS managed at least 35k next week, I think either Sony or Inafune will announce that they reached 200k copies sold in 2 weeks (ofc they'll count dual packs as two in addition to downloads numbers) as a marketing stunt.
 
Jan 28, 2010
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graphmag.wordpress.com
I see. Was it really many people who said this though? Personally i only saw that someone mentioned that it was sold out in a few stores, i didnt see anyone claim that it was the case for Japan overall. But i didnt read all posts, so maybe i missed some of them. That is why i asked :)
It's not that people are saying this. It's more subtle; just the fact that people are posting anecdotal evidence (I saw people posting Vita's Near... So what? It's like if I'm posting my daily StreetPass activity in the PAL charts topic) and attaching enthusiastic comments on it, implies that they are thinking, and they want us to think that they're more than representative of the market. I mean, in the last thread we saw people posting Famitsu Most Wanted, report from one single store, etc. If you look for those posts in the previous thread, you will easily find everything.

Then I'm not against anecdotal or limited evidences such as Comgnet, Amazon, stores report, etc. but it's always necessary to consider them for what they are, and avoid too much enthusiasm.
 

DaBoss

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Dec 5, 2012
20,948
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Sure, here were my reasons (hopefully better explained) on why I think it's more than likely it sold more (as percentage of the total) digitally than what some games have been reported of selling (20%):

The game itself is considered a system seller. A game therefore that people would less likely be worried about being able to return since it is one they are likely to have a lot of interest in and less likely to want to return (even though it is a new IP). The many videos showing what the game would be like beforehand, as well as the demo itself means it's more likely people know what they are getting into when they buy it too.

It is also considered one of the biggest games for the Vita, so in relation to other titles, you'd particularly want to have this title available for your convenience. Especially when it is a game people know they will put many hours into, and the online and local multiplayer emphasis of the game only plays into that.

[Btw the game's filesize is 2GB, which isn't considered too massive for a Vita title and new users will likely have space for it even on a 4GB card after some purchases.]

Sure there are reason why this might not work out (Japan's particular digital buying habits), but I'd hardly call it talking out my arse.

I also believe the 20% digital baseline is too low for Vita in general. The PSN store beats the PS3's store even with its puny userbase. AC and the boob game aren't digital must-haves by any stretch yet they're the only ones we have had so far, which is why I consider the 20% baseline way too for SS especially. The AC game in particular was rather expensive digitally and despite having hype, it makes way more sense to get the game retail. Its multiplayer was barely existent and the SP wasn't particularly long or reviewed all that well. The boob game doesn't sound good.
See, the reasoning is sound, but the numbers aren't something you can back up with the reasoning, which is why I said the numbers are baseless. I'm not saying that it is unreasonable to say this game would be perfect for owning digitally, but you can't just say some random percentage. You can't make a baseline based on very little information. If we had digital sales for at least 6 months, it may be possible to make some sort of baseline, but with so little information, it isn't possible.
 

donny2112

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Apr 18, 2005
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The game itself is considered a system seller.
Blue Dragon was a system seller for the 360. Game was returned in droves, along with the system, once they beat the game. On Vita, we've already had two other system sellers seeing the same kind of affect. There is nothing about a game being a system seller that makes it more likely to be purchased digitally. If anything, based on concrete examples from the past, being a system seller on an unpopular console makes it more likely for the game and system to be returned after beating it making digital purchases less likely.

Also, the only acceptable baseline to consider for digital sales for any system is 0%. Anything other than that better have some concrete numbers or commentary from people "in the know" to support it on a game-by-game basis, or it's as useful as FADEZ (digital arm of VGC) numbers.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Mar 22, 2007
23,613
2
1,130
It's not that people are saying this. It's more subtle; just the fact that people are posting anecdotal evidence (I saw people posting Vita's Near... So what? It's like if I'm posting my daily StreetPass activity in the PAL charts topic) and attaching enthusiastic comments on it, implies that they are thinking, and they want us to think that they're more than representative of the market. I mean, in the last thread we saw people posting Famitsu Most Wanted, report from one single store, etc. If you look for those posts in the previous thread, you will easily find everything.

Then I'm not against anecdotal or limited evidences such as Comgnet, Amazon, stores report, etc. but it's always necessary to consider them for what they are, and avoid too much enthusiasm.
I understand. I'm not sure if they necessarily means that it represents the general market, i could see it being posted with the intention of just being some positive anecdotal evidence. Hopefully most people will notice that it is only anecdotal evidence.


So, are there any factual reports, anecdotal or otherwise, about how SS and Vita hardware are selling this week?
The only anecdotal stuff i've seen online is that it is still charting relatively high in the Amazon Top 100 list (currently at #17) and that the double pack is out of stock at Amazon. Impossible to say how it reflects the general market in Japan, but at least it is something anecdotal =)
 

saichi

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Apr 8, 2010
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Sure there are reason why this might not work out (Japan's particular digital buying habits), but I'd hardly call it talking out my arse.

I also believe the 20% digital baseline is too low for Vita in general. The PSN store beats the PS3's store even with its puny userbase. AC and the boob game aren't digital must-haves by any stretch yet they're the only ones we have had so far, which is why I consider the 20% baseline way too for SS especially. The AC game in particular was rather expensive digitally and despite having hype, it makes way more sense to get the game retail. Its multiplayer was barely existent and the SP wasn't particularly long or reviewed all that well. The boob game doesn't sound good.
not sure if you are talking out of your arse but your reasoning is laughable.

1. The "boob game" had a 90%+ sell thru at retail which might have driven higher digital sales. SS had a 79% sell thru which means there is less a drive for digital purchase. Also, why does the boob game being good or not have anything to do with digital sale rate? Where is the evidence to show a better reviewed game would have higher digital sales?

2. You are applying the AC 20% digital sale rate to Japan market which the number is not for Japan market.

3. Miku had a 75% sell thru rate at retail and 10% digital sale rate for the first week. The Sega spokeperson mentioned 10% is typical for games. Suddenly 20% baseline is too low for VITA according to you?
 
Sep 15, 2011
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One could easily argue that SS sell through was 79% because the DD sales were very good, thus the retail demand would be lower.

In other words no one here knows for sure, it's all speculative. I do think that SS digital sales should be extremely good.
 

Alrus

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One could easily argue that SS sell through was 79% because the DD sales were very good, thus the retail demand would be lower.

In other words no one here knows for sure, it's all speculative. I do think that SS digital sales should be extremely good.
But why? We know that Japanese people usually avoid digital if they can and most instances where the digital version has sold very well were when the retail version of the game was supply constrained. Soul Sacrifice isn't supply constrained and I doubt it's because it suddenly broke all trend and suddenly sold much better digitally than any other Vita game.
 

Nekki

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One could easily argue that SS sell through was 79% because the DD sales were very good, thus the retail demand would be lower.

In other words no one here knows for sure, it's all speculative. I do think that SS digital sales should be extremely good.
Sure. You could also speculate that the game has already crossed 1 million sales thanks to digital.

Sure, here were my reasons (hopefully better explained) on why I think it's more than likely it sold more (as percentage of the total) digitally than what some games have been reported of selling (20%):

The game itself is considered a system seller. A game therefore that people would less likely be worried about being able to return since it is one they are likely to have a lot of interest in and less likely to want to return (even though it is a new IP). The many videos showing what the game would be like beforehand, as well as the demo itself means it's more likely people know what they are getting into when they buy it too.

It is also considered one of the biggest games for the Vita, so in relation to other titles, you'd particularly want to have this title available for your convenience. Especially when it is a game people know they will put many hours into, and the online and local multiplayer emphasis of the game only plays into that.

[Btw the game's filesize is 2GB, which isn't considered too massive for a Vita title and new users will likely have space for it even on a 4GB card after some purchases.]

Sure there are reason why this might not work out (Japan's particular digital buying habits), but I'd hardly call it talking out my arse.

I also believe the 20% digital baseline is too low for Vita in general. The PSN store beats the PS3's store even with its puny userbase. AC and the boob game aren't digital must-haves by any stretch yet they're the only ones we have had so far, which is why I consider the 20% baseline way too for SS especially. The AC game in particular was rather expensive digitally and despite having hype, it makes way more sense to get the game retail. Its multiplayer was barely existent and the SP wasn't particularly long or reviewed all that well. The boob game doesn't sound good.
Your reasoning is flawed due to several reasons (some of which have been pointed out before):

- It being a system seller is up for discussion, but this has not shown any relevant change in the digital market for other games, so it probably wouldn't help in this situation.

- It really is one of the most important Vita games of late (I actually think Shinovi Versus has been more important than this, even with lower sales). But how could that impact digital sales? Convenience for playing with other people is not enough of a reason to see a high spike in digital sales. Games that are easily more convenient to have in digital form due to daily play length being short haven't even seen a raise of above 20% digital sales (Animal Crossing notwithstanding).

- This is one of the most important factors, Japan just isn't big on digital purchases. It has grown, but only slightly, not enough to see that big of a difference.

- And lastly, you're comparing worldwide sales numbers to one region. There's no baseline for that. For all we know AC:L digital sales could be 1-5% for Japan.

Previous games have shown that the digital sales range can vary from 5-15% but not really past that, save for huge exceptions. Most of the games on the higher end of the spectrum, have actually been supply constrained at retail, something that did not happen with Soul Sacrifice.
 

Skyzard

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^ I've mentioned the worldwide numbers issue in my previous posts.

Games that are easily more convenient to have in digital form due to daily play length being short haven't even seen a raise of above 20% digital sales (Animal Crossing notwithstanding).
Nintendo is a different ball-game, I'd bet their online store doesn't get as much use generally in comparison to their retail figures given their demographic compared to Vita which gets more use than PS3. Although again, Japan..so not sure, I can appreciate that they might not just be big on it, but if it were to grow anywhere, I'm not surprised if it'd be on Vita and especially with SS if any title. It's pretty shocking others think it would make it less likely to be picked up digitally. Well.

Also about system sellers not known to be leading to increased digital sales - I can appreciate that, gotta say I'm only applying this to portables, which have only recently had digital stores. I still don't see it being enough of an improvement in convenience with consoles.. with a handheld it's much more likely though. Especially since iOS. But even as early as the modded handhelds last gen. But with big titles we've seen a lot of before release, there's less to worry about by going digital and since it makes more sense to go digital if you aren't returning it and will be playing it a lot, I'm happy to stand-by my reason.

Blue Dragon was a system seller for the 360. Game was returned in droves, along with the system, once they beat the game. On Vita, we've already had two other system sellers seeing the same kind of affect. There is nothing about a game being a system seller that makes it more likely to be purchased digitally. If anything, based on concrete examples from the past, being a system seller on an unpopular console makes it more likely for the game and system to be returned after beating it making digital purchases less likely.

Also, the only acceptable baseline to consider for digital sales for any system is 0%. Anything other than that better have some concrete numbers or commentary from people "in the know" to support it on a game-by-game basis, or it's as useful as FADEZ (digital arm of VGC) numbers.
Is Blue Dragon the most representative example? This seems like the minority rather than the majority. And how many people buy and sell consoles after playing one game :S what a huge hit to take.

Using tits as a comparison is flawed as its digital figures have obviously been enlarged (pun intended) by the retail sell outs
Yeah I'm not surprised many wouldn't want it digitally. Thanks though, did not know.

See, the reasoning is sound, but the numbers aren't something you can back up with the reasoning, which is why I said the numbers are baseless. I'm not saying that it is unreasonable to say this game would be perfect for owning digitally, but you can't just say some random percentage. You can't make a baseline based on very little information. If we had digital sales for at least 6 months, it may be possible to make some sort of baseline, but with so little information, it isn't possible.
That's why they're expectations. I can make an estimate of how many people I would consider to be thinking along those lines based on the reasons I gave.

not sure if you are talking out of your arse but your reasoning is laughable.

1. The "boob game" had a 90%+ sell thru at retail which might have driven higher digital sales. SS had a 79% sell thru which means there is less a drive for digital purchase. Also, why does the boob game being good or not have anything to do with digital sale rate? Where is the evidence to show a better reviewed game would have higher digital sales?

2. You are applying the AC 20% digital sale rate to Japan market which the number is not for Japan market.

3. Miku had a 75% sell thru rate at retail and 10% digital sale rate for the first week. The Sega spokeperson mentioned 10% is typical for games. Suddenly 20% baseline is too low for VITA according to you?
If it hasn't sold out at retail digital wouldn't necessarily be less, it just means people aren't forced to buy it digitally, they have plenty of reason to like I said previously (big(gest?) game, lots of hours to complete, high-replayable, less likely to want to return quickly if at all). People might in fact just be buying more copies digitally leaving retail stock. It's laughable to think what I thought was laughable but this is concrete.

I mentioned 2. Never saw 3, still can't find it where they said 10% is usual. - I wouldn't expect the 30-35% digital in Japan if it was true though and if the Japanese really hate digital (on handhelds) I wouldn't be surprised if it was 15%, I'd disappointed with lower though.

We have any other stats on Japan Vita digital sales other than the supply constrained boob game?
 
Sep 15, 2011
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But why? We know that Japanese people usually avoid digital if they can and most instances where the digital version has sold very well were when the retail version of the game was supply constrained. Soul Sacrifice isn't supply constrained and I doubt it's because it suddenly broke all trend and suddenly sold much better digitally than any other Vita game.
Only that the online component of SS is a major part of it's appeal, also it is game with a lot of replayability and would be something someone would want to hold onto for a long time, and having easy always on the system access could also be a big driver for digital sales.


I don't think it unreasonable to expect 20-30k DD so far, IMO.
 

test_account

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Why should it be counted as two sales in the trackers though? Then any publisher could do this and tout that they'd sold twice as many copies as they actually did.

It's not about the receipt, it's about the pack. It would show up as one item. 10 3DS's would show up as 10 3DS's not 1 pack of 10. False equivalency.
I dont see what is false equivalency with it. How do you mean? Keep in mind that the double pack cost more than the standard SKU, so you're paying for two copies even if it is cheaper than buying two seperate copies of the standard/single SKU (it wouldnt have mattered much if the 2nd copy in the double pack was free though, because it would still be a sale and it means that 1 extra copy are in gamers' hands). I also think it is very safe to assume that the sales of the standard SKU would have been higher if the double pack didnt excist.

I do agree that it shouldnt show up as two copies in the sales charts though. This would give a wrong impression of how many copies of a double pack that was sold indeed. But since Media Create seperates the two SKUs in their charts, we can easily see how many SKUs that are sold and how many copies that are sold without giving any wrong sales impressions on how many copies that are in gamers' hands :)


By the way, it wont be a problem for publishers to get the sales data anyway. Since there are two different SKUs, the trackers do track them seperately (even if Famitsu combines them in their chart, i think that their internal data have sales numbers for both SKUs individually). This way the publishers get to see how many double packs that are sold, and they can just multiply that number by two.

It is the same with hardware bundles as well. For example, Nintendo reported once that over 45 million copies of Wii Sports was sold eventhough that it was included in every Wii system sold in Europe and US. Another example might be Wii Play, a game that was only bundled with a Wii controller as far as i know. Is it false equivalency to include this game in the charts because it could be counted as a controller sales instead? The price of the game wasnt really that much higher than buying a regular controller. Personally i dont think so, i think it is fine to include Wii Play in the gaming sale charts as well eventhough that it comes with a Wii controller.
 

Nekki

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Nintendo is a different ball-game, I'd bet their online store doesn't get as much use generally in comparison to their retail figures given their demographic compared to Vita which gets more use than PS3. Although again, Japan..so not sure, I can appreciate that they might not just be big on it, but if it were to grow anywhere, I'm not surprised if it'd be on Vita and especially with SS if any title. It's pretty shocking others think it would make it less likely to be picked up digitally. Well.
Nobody says it's less likely that people will pick this game up digitally. Of course it has digital sales. But it breaking the norm is what's not likely.

Can it happen? Sure.

Did it happen? The only answer is we don't know, but analyzing everything we know, it would point that it is unlikely.
 

Skyzard

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Jun 3, 2012
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Nobody says it's less likely that people will pick this game up digitally. Of course it has digital sales. But it breaking the norm is what's not likely.

Can it happen? Sure.

Did it happen? The only answer is we don't know, but analyzing everything we know, it would point that it is unlikely.
Blue Dragon was a system seller for the 360. Game was returned in droves, along with the system, once they beat the game. On Vita, we've already had two other system sellers seeing the same kind of affect. There is nothing about a game being a system seller that makes it more likely to be purchased digitally. If anything, based on concrete examples from the past, being a system seller on an unpopular console makes it more likely for the game and system to be returned after beating it making digital purchases less likely.

Also, the only acceptable baseline to consider for digital sales for any system is 0%. Anything other than that better have some concrete numbers or commentary from people "in the know" to support it on a game-by-game basis, or it's as useful as FADEZ (digital arm of VGC) numbers.
Also, we don't really know what the norm is and seeing as SS has everything in its favour for being a digital purchase except for being completely supply-constrained (thankfully, nice to see Sony having quite a lot of faith in their titles, also so sales happen) as well as being possibly Sony's biggest push on the platform, it is more likely that it does break into the higher digital sales in Japan, given the relative infancy of the dedicated handhelds' digital stores. Not to mention the differences between the Vita and the PSP and their stores. Not entirely sure why digital sales wouldn't be even higher for Nintendo in Japan if the demographics are similar there though, maybe the 3DS just gets so much shelf space that the lure is strong :p or their digital policy/store functions sucks - maybe nothing though as well of course.
 

eighty(one)

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Also, we don't really know what the norm is and seeing as SS has everything in its favour for being a digital purchase except for being completely supply-constrained (thankfully) as well as being possibly Sony's biggest push on the platform, it is more likely that it does break into the higher digital sales in Japan, given the relative infancy of the dedicated handhelds' digital stores.

I get what you're saying.

SS's digital ownership appeal makes sense, logically, in similar ways Brain Age, Nintendogs or Animal Crossing might appeal digitally: you don't have to swap carts.

Even more so, on Vita, as PSN IS highly emphasized throughout much of the systems features/firmware. You have integrated trophies, party chat, the PSN market place; even the video app has PSN video release headings, in NA.

SS is an online multiplayer game, with online voice enabled (if you choose) communication. Being able to put the game into a save state (like suspended iOS or Android apps/games), to which you can easily jump back into, makes a lot of sense. Especially, for a game of this genre/type. The ease of use and play, is appealing - without having cart swaps - and being able to bounce between apps and whatnot.

I'd speculate higher digital sales, are quite possible and even appealing, for this game.

With 3DS, I prefer retail - CN and booklets. There's a certain 'collector' mentality I have with 3DS games. Vita, not so much. I have majority of Vita games from retail - only to save space on my 16 GB. The Vita carts (and lack of packaging), havent had that same collector feelings/appeal of physical purchases (excepting games like P4:G). They're just so threadbare. I'm more invested emotionally, with Nintendo game purchases.

Hell, I regret not getting Brain Age: Concentration Training digitally vs. retail. I'm even going back and forth, as whether to move my paid off AC:New Leaf preorder to digital....but I love 3DS/Nintendo packaging (collecting).
 

extralite

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Sony introduced download cards for SS in an attempt to emulate Nintendo. They should be included in the Famitsu numbers I guess (edit: I checked on the Famitsu site and the ~106k sold includes standard edition, hardware bundles, double pack and download cards).

Anyway, since SS didn't have that many preorders and is more of a mainstream title, selling well because of the marketing push and bundles, most of digital sales are probably already accounted for in download cards.
 
Feb 9, 2007
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Don't worry about digital download sales. There's sort of a growing trend with sales numbers announcements in that now there's numbers for digital and physical copies.
So if SS sells a reasonable number of copies on the PSN store, we'll know eventually.
 

Skyzard

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Jun 3, 2012
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^ I hope so. Seems likely they'd say so if they were good.

And the conclusion is... Until we don't have data about digital sales, we cannot be say anything about digital sales.


Still though, it's logical to see an increase with SS.

@eighty(one), good point about the collection with 3DS vs Vita, I suspected but wasn't sure, also on the crappy manuals too :/

Sony introduced download cards for SS in an attempt to emulate Nintendo. They should be included in the Famitsu numbers I guess (edit: I checked on the Famitsu site and the ~106k sold includes standard edition, hardware bundles, double pack and download cards).

Anyway, since SS didn't have that many preorders and is more of a mainstream title, selling well because of the marketing push and bundles, most of digital sales are probably already accounted for in download cards.
Oh I didn't know about the cards as well, thanks for the info. The Famitsu figure seems low compared to others we've heard though, no?
I wouldn't be surprised if digital store was a lower due to download carts and bundles though yeah...cards don't really count as digital (in that it doesn't really show how well store is doing on its own) although Sony might say so for SS.
 

donny2112

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And how many people buy and sell consoles after playing one game :S what a huge hit to take.
In Japan, quite a lot. There is no rental system in Japan, and if they buy it and sell it back in a week or two, they can get back 75% or more of the purchase price usually. It's not like GameStop for trade-ins in the U.S.

Still though, it's logical to see an increase with SS.
It's not a "play a few minutes at a time" game, and big-seller/important game has shown no correlation to higher download %s, to my knowledge (outside of sellouts). Therefore, there's no logical reason to expect an a large % of downloads with SS that I can see.