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Miyamoto: Zelda is too Complicated and wants Zelda Wii more Approachable
- Thread starter Jason's Ultimatum
- Start date
brandonh83
Banned
curls said:
The enemies looked good as did some of the environments. I just really despise the more "humanistic" character designs.
Glass Soldier
Banned
God damn this thread. Someone should take one for the team, post some Zelda x Biggoron hentai and get this thread locked.
ShockingAlberto
Member
by TP did you mean toilet paperGeneralIroh said:
Because I can kind of see how that makes sense
I actually agree that TP´s design was as expressive as TWW´s. It´s just that...TP´s story and events NEVER had it put to use. Link was much more involved in TWW which allowed for more situations where they could show his facial expressions, while in TP, cutscenes mostly focused on other characters or more general happenings. Just saying, technically, TP wasnt any worse in terms of facial expressions. I was actually honestly impressed back then. It´s easier showing off facial expressions when your game is full of slap-stick like TWW.
Really? You take one of the best NPCs from TP to show how bad it was? Malo-haters gonna hate.
why is it funny? If anything it´s prove for saying that TP wasnt any less expressive than TWW.
Fimbulvetr said:
Say what you will about WW's humans, they're nowhere as bad as uncanny valley incarnate up there.
Really? You take one of the best NPCs from TP to show how bad it was? Malo-haters gonna hate.
why is it funny? If anything it´s prove for saying that TP wasnt any less expressive than TWW.
Fimbulvetr
Member
brandonh83 said:
Say what you will about WW's humans, they're nowhere as bad as uncanny valley incarnate up there.
Edit: Isn't it funny how Midna has the most expressive face in TP?
Glass Soldier
Banned
Vinci said:
I wouldn't even know where to look! Personally, I vote for Zelda's HUELEN
selig
Malo was a horrible, horrible character. Expressionless to boot.
Edit: I agree on Midna though, that's one of the main reasons why I liked TP. Midna has a lot of the expressions that a lot of the WW characters have. Anger, sorrow, sickness, happiness and of course the evil grin she has.
Edit: I agree on Midna though, that's one of the main reasons why I liked TP. Midna has a lot of the expressions that a lot of the WW characters have. Anger, sorrow, sickness, happiness and of course the evil grin she has.
Fimbulvetr
Member
selig said:
It's funny because she is the least realistically detailed of the main characters; save for the runes on her helmet.
In fact, she could almost feel at home in Wind.... Waker.
See what I did there?
Fimbulvetr
Member
TunaLover said:
We weren't arguing about the games as a whole(at least I wasn't) just their art styles.
GeneralIroh
Member
Yeah like toucan sam....curls said:
TP had better enemy designs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYyh8zi3aI#t=2m11s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYyh8zi3aI#t=2m51s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6CEA4_U5a4&feature=related#t=6s
Midna was also a very expressive character.
Seems like none of you guys played TP because this these are proof that Link displayed more expressions than lifeless neutral expressions complaint you guys seem to pull out of your asses.
I do have to admit though that TWW's graphics did age better. I'm tired of TWW character design but I hope they reuse the cel-shading technique.
xs_mini_neo
Banned
Sadist said:
Malo's sarcastic whateva personality was transplanted from an internet message board member. He may look funky, but he was a breath of fresh air as far as NPCs in Zelda games go.
Malo + Midna >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the entire WW cast.
GeneralIroh
Member
Twilight Princess had some decent designs.
http://www.zeldawiki.org/images/3/3d/Deathswordrender.png
http://www.zeldawiki.org/images/c/ca/Morpheel.png
http://www.zeldawiki.org/images/e/eb/Queen_Rutela.png
http://www.zeldawiki.org/images/e/ef/Shad.png
http://www.zeldawiki.org/images/d/da/DarkBeastGanon_TP.png
http://www.zeldawiki.org/images/0/0e/Great_Fairy.png
It was Malo's only attribute and it got old very fast.
Whatever you say, it's a matter of perspective. (These absolutes are redicioulus as well) I personally didn't call TP characters expressionless, because Link definitely shows several emotions in the game. Still, I think when compared to Wind Waker's expressions TP's showing felt a bit bland. I'm not saying bad or anything, but I've seen better. Midna by far was the best character in the game and that's because her design was totally different from other TP characters.
Edit: Oh fuck the layout man
Whatever you say, it's a matter of perspective. (These absolutes are redicioulus as well) I personally didn't call TP characters expressionless, because Link definitely shows several emotions in the game. Still, I think when compared to Wind Waker's expressions TP's showing felt a bit bland. I'm not saying bad or anything, but I've seen better. Midna by far was the best character in the game and that's because her design was totally different from other TP characters.
Edit: Oh fuck the layout man
GeneralIroh
Member
Thats all i could find.Varjet said:
Fimbulvetr
Member
GeneralIroh said:
Here, for the love of god, here: http://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda11-twilight-princess-characters.php
Looking at all these great TP-designs makes me remember what I really hated about the game:
NOT EXPLAINING SHIT! And no, that´s not part of "leaving some myth to something". For example, the revel group was really great. Especially Shad´s design is fantastic, he looks cooler than Link himself and I´d love to play a game with him as the hero. But each rebel group-member only served as an event-trigger instead of being an actually active rebel group.
And then the second biggest "hole" that drives me crazy: That mid-boss from the desert prison-dungeon. That invisible demon with his 3 meter-sword. What a GREAT design. But he appears randomly inside that dungeon, you fight and defeat him, and that´s it. Please, give me some info about that guy, some bits of story or so. Not necessarily pushed into the player´s face a la "this is the demon soul of an evil criminal etc etc", but...somewhere. Let players that are interested in the game find out more about what they encounter.
NOT EXPLAINING SHIT! And no, that´s not part of "leaving some myth to something". For example, the revel group was really great. Especially Shad´s design is fantastic, he looks cooler than Link himself and I´d love to play a game with him as the hero. But each rebel group-member only served as an event-trigger instead of being an actually active rebel group.
And then the second biggest "hole" that drives me crazy: That mid-boss from the desert prison-dungeon. That invisible demon with his 3 meter-sword. What a GREAT design. But he appears randomly inside that dungeon, you fight and defeat him, and that´s it. Please, give me some info about that guy, some bits of story or so. Not necessarily pushed into the player´s face a la "this is the demon soul of an evil criminal etc etc", but...somewhere. Let players that are interested in the game find out more about what they encounter.
Why would you do that?
Member
What? How are there Malo haters? He was the greatest NPC in the game. He was sarcastic, firm, and still had room to create the greatest store chain in the Zelda universe.
In all, I actually liked Wind Waker's character design more, but I like Twilight Princess's characters more...
. That was a huge surprise that made me go "Woah!" and I was happy.
In all, I actually liked Wind Waker's character design more, but I like Twilight Princess's characters more...
To be honest, I preferr it this way. It leaves more surprises in the game. For instance, the final boss of Zelda IIselig said:
Dark Link
GeneralIroh
Member
All bosses you fight should have some kinda legend or story behind them either before you enter a dungeon or after you defeat them. I liked how they built up that flying dragon boss in OOT before u faced it.
As for the character's facial animation, I prefer the way its done in TP. It felt like there was more work done to the character's faces. In TWW they animated the characters by changing the sprite or textures.
As for the character's facial animation, I prefer the way its done in TP. It felt like there was more work done to the character's faces. In TWW they animated the characters by changing the sprite or textures.
Why would you do that?
Member
I guess you're right. However, I feel like some things don't have to be explained. I feel that this is a difference between many Western games and many Japanese games... in that the Western games go out of their way to explain weird phenomena (like in Portal... Your character has these weird things on her legs to explain how she can fall a larger than normal distance and not get hurt. I found that weird) and Japanese games don't do this as much.selig said:
I feel that enemies don't need explanation, unless they're important, like Zant. I don't think enemies (including bosses, minibosses, or standard enemies) need explanations all the time, especially when you can assume their background somewhat (like King Dodongo). I think it allows for more farfetched and unique creations, like Bongo Bongo. However, that doesn't mean that having a story behind enemies is bad. Twinrova's and Volvagia's stories were pretty great to me.
(It turns out I only mentioned Ocarina of Time bosses. Sorry about that.)
Christopher said:
It really seems to depend on the person.I can really remember every character from this game,even these random NPCs who are just walking around in Hyrule Town(I tried closeups with the Warp glitch,my favorite NPC there is the chinese girl).I even played 80 more rupees to have Sheena with me on the boat for fishing and I loved to make her angry,happy or whatever in any way (and I must say that it looked excellent-no wonder,as I said before,it uses the Wind Waker Graphics Engine,and you can still clearly see the influence from Wind Waker).And the Zoras-I just love them.Like the one Zora who just unfreezed,shivering and asking what just happened.I really could feel that she was still fragile.
WW also did an amazing job.The blue-haired girl from Outset Island who gets frightened when you shoot her pot away.Or Zelda/Tetras expressions.
I even can say that the expressions and character designs in WW and TP made a huge step forward from Oot/MM.They are still not the greatest,but they are good.
The music...I just love it.It's just my most favorite soundtrack in the whole series.The night theme of Hyrule field is so increbily beautiful,and together with the beautiful art design it is the most intense and atmospheric thing I've ever seen and heard in any Zelda game.
The thing with the realistic look-I recently played Ocarina of Time,and it felt so lifeless for me.Oot had a bigger realisitic style than TP,and Link only seems to have two or three expressions maximum-and most NPCs have only one.It is a great game,but nowadays it felt so lifeless for me.
However,I just friggin' love TP and WW.Both.
Haunted
Member
Good man, ignore the low res peons.GeneralIroh said:
Truly some great designs in there! Clearly, the weakest are the regular human NPCs (at least to me), but the monster/enemy/boss and other NPC designs are absolutely top notch.
Of course, Wind Waker had absolutely gorgeous design as well. Comparing the concept art, I feel that both of the recent titles are a vast improvement over the N64 games.
edit: also, Selig is crazy.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
my praise of WW has nothing to do with bashing TP. i do prefer WW's art and graphical style more, but there were plenty of times during TP that i was wigging out with how glorious it looked.
GeneralIroh
Member
I really like the clothes for the people of Ordon. Sure people are ugly, but thats variety for u. I like how that village has a sense of culture.
DieNgamers
Member
I'm one of those guys who really liked the whole style and feel of Wind Waker but didn't "get" the design of link himself. There were many awesome characters but Link really looked like a cat sometimes. That comparision is spot on, I think. :lol
the thoroughbred
Member
GeneralIroh said:
This is very true. The whole concept of Twilight Princess was in subtleties. When it came to physics, graphics, colour palette, weather effects, everything was very realistic, in the sense that they were subtle. And this is also true for Links facial expressions. There is that cut scene when Link goes into a higher level of consciousness, a trance, and he looks like he is experiencing the God Head. He has the facial expression of the jokester archetype.
The facial expressions of Links in Twilight Princess may also appear less effective because of the combination of colour palette and inherently more detailed environments. This made the screen slightly mushy and muddy first appearance, making small details like facial expressions esoteric. But this was the whole intent. The developers have said they made the game around the GC controls and they wanted an emphasis on the landscaping scenic views. You can see this intent with the "Zoom Out/Panoramic" view option with the GC version.
While I prefer some things to be left unexplained one of my biggest gripes with TP was that there was no explaining behind how Link obtained triforce/suit. The "Lol u r hero of legend so you has them" was plain dumb, considering that in the previous installments it was dealt with in some way. This time they took the lazy path.selig said:
Overall Triforce felt pretty inexistent. It is a revered symbol, sent by the Gods but we don't have almost anything about it in the plot itself.
PS. Nah, selig isn't crazy - he is insane.
But "it feels so good to read him"
If you look at the sheer design of WW and TP I believe WW winds hands down. The world doesnt feel like a sum of connected areas but like a real ocean. The character design is more cute and whimsical then TP (which suits my taste more) and Link with all his items blend into the surroundings much better then he does in TP (in WW Link looks like a small kid playing with his toys in town while Link in TP feels kinda weird with all his gadgetery when he enters towns. not to mention that he cant use any of his items in castle town).
But the overall gameplay is just much better in TP. The Battle system in WW is too automatic compared to TP and it does not have as much combat options as in TP. The Dungeon design of WW is lacking (not to mention the amount of dungeons you have in WW) compared to the Dungeons in TP (Twilight Dungeon for example). The Overworld (while being a bunch of connected area) is much more fun then the overworld in WW (Boring Boring Sea travel). The only thing that WW does much better is the sidequest stuff. But seriously you can beat WW in about 6 hours so without the sidequest stuff the game would feel way to mondaine..
SO yeah while WW is definately more charming Id say TP is the overall better game.
But the overall gameplay is just much better in TP. The Battle system in WW is too automatic compared to TP and it does not have as much combat options as in TP. The Dungeon design of WW is lacking (not to mention the amount of dungeons you have in WW) compared to the Dungeons in TP (Twilight Dungeon for example). The Overworld (while being a bunch of connected area) is much more fun then the overworld in WW (Boring Boring Sea travel). The only thing that WW does much better is the sidequest stuff. But seriously you can beat WW in about 6 hours so without the sidequest stuff the game would feel way to mondaine..
SO yeah while WW is definately more charming Id say TP is the overall better game.
If..BorkBork said:
The reality is that there were islands that had one single chest and thats it
The Music of Twilight Princess is designed to play a supporting role to gameplay While in Wind Waker its a very important gameplay element.Christopher said:
In Wind Waker Link is a conductor while in Twilight Princess he doesnt have any musical instruments outside of some grass he uses to get epona or a hawk.
Also Wind Wakers overall atmosphere is very cheery and bright while Twilight Princess is dark and gloomy. So the music of Twilight Princess is very ambiant and maybe thats the reason why its not memorable .
theMrCravens
Member
I know it's a bit unusual for the Zelda games, but they should start adding difficulty settings.
Can't ask them not to mainstream it. Just add in a HARD mode for the rest of us.
Can't ask them not to mainstream it. Just add in a HARD mode for the rest of us.