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[mAcOdIn]

so.. judging by the snarkyness, you just don't care? collective punishment is alright if it feels good?

If they are at this point they've made a conscious decision to do something other than championing a cause, there's been plenty of time for them to step up. Since before all of us have been born, really. Not sure why yesterday'd have been the day they decide to fix the broken justice system in the US.

I'll come out and say I don't care. BLM, come block me next. Amarillo, Texas, block off I-40 East around 4:30 pm, that'll get me during my commute.

Look, I only know of two ways of these issues getting resolves, disruption or revolution, and I'm for trying disruption first and giving that a fair shot. I'm fairly sure if disruption's harsh for you, you'd hate a revolution so I think you should give disruption a chance too. As for working within the system, well how long should people expect to keep trying something that hasn't worked yet?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Your'e saying the why they are protesting. Not the how they intend to stop it.

What about body cameras that's footage is sent to server owned by a civilian authority instead of the county police?

What about better education?

Psychological evaluations for the officers on the front line?

Harsher penalties for not just the officers found committing murder but for all the officers involved in the cover up.


Who is pushing for these and how do I support them?

So it is on them and basically only them to tell society how to not murderer them?

Just demanding not to be murdered is sufficient grounds

 

[KarneeKarnay]

So it is on them and basically only them to tell society how to not murderer them?

Just demanding not to be murdered is sufficient grounds

It's not though. The way you make it sound is like you want people to stop murdering other people. I don't think that has ever worked in the history of anything. You said this was about the police. Not society.What do you want? Do you want the police to stop murdering black people or do you want society to stop murdering black people? What are you trying to say?

Who is pushing solutions and how do I support them?

 

[excelsiorlef]

It's not though. The way you make it sound is like you want people to stop murdering other people. I don't think that has ever worked in the history of anything. You said this was about the police. Not society.What do you want? Do you want the police to stop murdering black people or do you want society to stop murdering black people? What are you trying to say?

Who is pushing solutions and how do I support them?

Society = Police. The police murder and society watches.



So they can't just protest their murders at the hands of the police? That's not enough for you?

 

[The Kree]

You wanna know who's pushing solutions.

We already have laws against abuse, oppression, murder. Somehow though, merely having these policies on the books isn't enough because we see cops getting away with horrible shit routinely, even when caught on video. Hence the disruption.

You can't legislate empathy. So, if we keep telling a group of people that their lives are worthless and that the law isn't meant to work for them, should we be surprised when they start getting in our way? Should we be surprised if they don't want to bother trying to change minds that don't care to be changed? Should they give a fuck about a country that doesn't give a fuck about them?

The disruption is the solution. Fuck my shit up, I'm fucking your shit up. Want me to stop? You first.

 

[KarneeKarnay]

Society = Police. The police murder and society watches.



So they can't just protest their murders at the hands of the police? That's not enough for you?

No it's not. Protest is not protest for the sake of protest. You do a massive disservice to anyone who was hurt or killed in a protest just saying that. Protest is to bring about change. If you have no idea what you need to achieve to bring this change then your protest is just a collective pity party.

It's not enough to demand change. You have to work for it. You need an actual objective to reach. The Suffrage Movement wanted equal rights for women. To that end they campaigned for the right to vote. MLK wanted equal rights for Black people. To that end he campaigned for the end of segregation and a Black right to vote.

 

[excelsiorlef]

No it's not. Protest is not protest for the sake of protest. You do a massive disservice to anyone who was hurt or killed in a protest just saying that. Protest is to bring about change. If you have no idea what you need to achieve to bring this change then your protest is just a collective pity party.

It's not enough to demand change. You have to work for it. You need an actual objective to reach. The Suffrage Movement wanted equal rights for women. To that end they campaigned for the right to vote. MLK wanted equal rights for Black people. To that end he campaigned for the end of segregation and a Black right to vote.

They're campaigning to end police brutality

 

[KarneeKarnay]

You wanna know who's pushing solutions.

We already have laws against abuse, oppression, murder. Somehow though, merely having these policies on the books isn't enough because we see cops getting away with horrible shit routinely, even when caught on video. Hence the disruption.

You can't legislate empathy. So, if we keep telling a group of people that their lives are worthless and that the law isn't meant to work for them, should we be surprised when they start getting in our way? Should we be surprised if they don't want to bother trying to change minds that don't care to be changed? Should they give a fuck about a country that doesn't give a fuck about them?

The disruption is the solution. Fuck my shit up, I'm fucking your shit up. Want me to stop? You first.

-More education in schools? How about the lowering of costs to go to university for all?

Racism is bred for ignorance. You want to change that then increase the funding to the school system. What can I do to help the person pushing that? People talk about how change never happens and things will be awful forever. I saw someone earlier say things hadn't changed from 1766. Well make a change. Start protesting senators that want to cut funding to schools in the city. A highway isn't going to change anything.

They're campaigning to end police brutality

How do they achieve it?

Body cams? A new body of authority? Harsher penalties?

I'm not trying to sound like a dick here, but I want to know who is doing what to bring about change in BLM and what I can do to support them. Honestly I don't think anyone here seems to know.

 

[The Kree]

District attorneys who won't even indict crooked cops are very well educated. I think most congressmen and senators are ivy league educated. Those conservative Supreme Court justices who kept arguing against gay marriage were smart motherfuckers. I don't know where you got the idea that education is some kind of cure-all when it takes a fair bit of education and intellect to help maintain an oppressive system - at least as much as it takes to tear it down. But sure, more spending on education would be great.

Clogging up a highway is protesting against the government. There are protests in Washington DC almost daily. It's so routine that they don't report on them. Clogging up a highway on MLK day, however, sends a loud message and causes a ripple effect. People in other cities will be inspired to protest loudly and more frequently. As the protests become more frequent, public officials who identify with and agree with the movement may naturally emerge to address the issues in a positive way.

The disruption is the solution. They will stop when discernible positive change happens. The people who make policies need to start upholding them in equal favor for black citizens. There's not much black people can do until the laws that already exist start actually working for them.

 

[Nephtis]

They're campaigning to end police brutality

How do they achieve it?

Body cams? A new body of authority? Harsher penalties?

I'm not trying to sound like a dick here, but I want to know who is doing what to bring about change in BLM and what I can do to support them. Honestly I don't think anyone here seems to know.

I think I see what Karnee's coming from - BLM right now doesn't really seem to have a goal other than to disrupt to bring the conversation to the table. Which so far it has achieved - but not much else beyond that. Ok, so we're talking about it - now what? What changes do we need to implement? How are we going to go about bringing said changes? Who will be leading this?

Occupy's movement started out great - it was strong, it had a lot of support and it was gathering a lot of attention from the media. But there was no clear direction. There was a goal, but no path to achieve said goal. It had no leadership, and after a certain point people were just lost since they didn't know what to do next. That's why it lost so much support so quickly and ended up failing big time.

I started to look things up to explain BLM's goals and how to get there a little better and I found this article from The Atlantic. It does a pretty good job of making things a little clear, but it's too decentralized (which seems to have been done on purpose) and too vague.

MLK was successful because he was the clear leader of the movement. He gave people something to work towards and he pretty much made it very specific about what he wanted done. It wasn't just "don't kill us!", it was "we want x, y, z."

What we're seeing today seems to represent more the symbolism of what he stood for, rather than it being a movement or a revolution to make things better.

 

[mAcOdIn]

I feel that what has to be done is to continue to create a ruckus until it's an issue for all Americans. Because, lets say you got an awesome President, Governor, Mayor and DA and the grand juries still side with the cops. America as a whole has to want this.

To me, when the whole Black Lives Matter thing started and people didn't even want to say it, I mean, that right there is the problem. Asking someone to say Black Lives Matter is no different than a loved one asking you to tell them you love them and when you're answer's "eh, I love everyone," what's that say? How would that fly over with your mother, wife, or whoever? Until America can say Black Lives Matter without having to add a caveat I think these protesters should keep going. Basically I feel like most Americans are emotionally stunted children who can't come to terms with the idea that loving black people doesn't mean they have to stop loving whatever group they're in, or maybe worse, that they'd be perceived as a traitor by that group for loving black people. Or maybe they just don't love black people.

Seeing politicians flub this was hilarious. But telling.

 

[AnathemicOne]

Blocking traffic isn't cool. But this protest is in the Bay Area? I mean yeah its a big city but I don't recall any recent incidents of police brutality in that area with racist motives.

 

[The Kree]

Police brutality is less cool than blocking traffic.

"Police, don't kill us" should be a specific enough message for a decent human being.

 

[PopeReal]

Blocking traffic isn't cool. But this protest is in the Bay Area? I mean yeah its a big city but I don't recall any recent incidents of police brutality in that area with racist motives.

So if you don't think there has been enough incidents of police brutality you don't think they should protest? What.

 

[AnathemicOne]

So if you don't think there has been enough incidents of police brutality you don't think they should protest? What.

No of course not. I'm questioning whether the Bay Area is an area of where commonplace police brutality fueled by racism occurs. Because if not, well I find it odd and subsequently question what's the purpose of protesting the people/areas that aren't against your cause.

It's similar to complaining at an asian restaurant about italian food they don't serve.

 

[PopeReal]

No of course not. I'm questioning whether the Bay Area is an area of where commonplace police brutality fueled by racism occurs. Because if not, well I find it odd and subsequently question what's the purpose of protesting the people/areas that aren't against your cause.

It's similar to complaining at an asian restaurant about italian food they don't serve.

Double what. I am just going back to bed.

 

[Chariot]

I feel that what has to be done is to continue to create a ruckus until it's an issue for all Americans. Because, lets say you got an awesome President, Governor, Mayor and DA and the grand juries still side with the cops. America as a whole has to want this.

To me, when the whole Black Lives Matter thing started and people didn't even want to say it, I mean, that right there is the problem. Asking someone to say Black Lives Matter is no different than a loved one asking you to tell them you love them and when you're answer's "eh, I love everyone," what's that say? How would that fly over with your mother, wife, or whoever? Until America can say Black Lives Matter without having to add a caveat I think these protesters should keep going. Basically I feel like most Americans are emotionally stunted children who can't come to terms with the idea that loving black people doesn't mean they have to stop loving whatever group they're in, or maybe worse, that they'd be perceived as a traitor by that group for loving black people. Or maybe they just don't love black people.

Seeing politicians flub this was hilarious. But telling.

Yeah, to this day Hillary refused to say the words right? Pretty good sign how the denocratic establishment is standing on this.

 

[Africanus]

So guys, I know it's been a few days since Martin Luther King Jr. day.

But, I have a question, why are they protesting on the bridge? Don't they know it won't help their cause?
I read through the thread as all honorable posters do and still ask this question in complete ignorance.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Have we proceeded beyond the "they shouldn't block traffic, it's hurting their cause" phase? No? Didn't think so. At this point people could just click a page at random and find that their 'point' has already been addressed ad nauseam.

 

[Ethereal Ardor]

Thank you for the valuable information and insight here guys. I was not unlike the majority of the populace leaning against the protesters. The thought process behind the actions of the BLM protesters and a brief yet in-depth history of MLK's civil rights movement gave me a much needed second opinion and clarity on the issue. I have been educated.

 

[Ethereal Ardor]

So guys, I know it's been a few days since Martin Luther King Jr. day.

But, I have a question, why are they protesting on the bridge? Don't they know it won't help their cause?
I read through the thread as all honorable posters do and still ask this question in complete ignorance.

The action itself has no bearing whatsoever on the issue at hand. The purpose behind it is to cause people to be "inconvenienced" enough to notice and disprupt them from their bubble/ zombie status and hopefully inform themselves, and take action.

Although the movement unfortunately hasn't made much traction because of a lack of a figurehead such as MLK & Malcolm X, people having dismissed the existence of racism, and/or people having adapted to passive/ closeted racism.

 

[theignoramus]

The action itself has no bearing whatsoever on the issue at hand. The purpose behind it is to cause people to be "inconvenienced" enough to notice and disprupt them from their bubble/ zombie status and hopefully inform themselves, and take action.

Although the movement unfortunately hasn't made much traction because of a lack of a figurehead such as MLK & Malcolm X, people having dismissed the existence of racism, and/or people having adapted to passive/ closeted racism.

I disagree, BLM has forced two presidential campaigns to speak bluntly and earnestly about institutional racism. Even Bill Clinton paid lip service to BLM and admitted his tough on crime policy of the 90s did more harm than good. Key leaders talking about the issue in open discussion is hugely important and will pay dividends decades down the road.

 

[Ethereal Ardor]

I disagree, BLM has forced two presidential campaigns to speak bluntly and earnestly about institutional racism. Even Bill Clinton paid lip service to BLM and admitted his tough on crime policy of the 90s did more harm than good. Key leaders talking about the issue in open discussion is hugely important and will pay dividends decades down the road.

I hope it becomes more than just lip service once their presidential campaign ends.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

How do they achieve it?

Body cams? A new body of authority? Harsher penalties?

I'm not trying to sound like a dick here, but I want to know who is doing what to bring about change in BLM and what I can do to support them. Honestly I don't think anyone here seems to know.

http://www.joincampaignzero.org/#vision

Tah-Dah! Here's one of numerous orgs that have been advising government officials and presidential candidates.

There out there, you just need to look. And guess what? They are almost all affiliated with BLM!

 

[indigo lily]

No of course not. I'm questioning whether the Bay Area is an area of where commonplace police brutality fueled by racism occurs. Because if not, well I find it odd and subsequently question what's the purpose of protesting the people/areas that aren't against your cause.

It's similar to complaining at an asian restaurant about italian food they don't serve.

I'm hoping you just read the thread title and just decided to comment. If so, I'd suggest to read through all 29 pages and see if you still think your comparison is valid.

But seriously this thread is making me feel very disturbed and hopeless...

 

[Yaboosh]

No of course not. I'm questioning whether the Bay Area is an area of where commonplace police brutality fueled by racism occurs. Because if not, well I find it odd and subsequently question what's the purpose of protesting the people/areas that aren't against your cause.

It's similar to complaining at an asian restaurant about italian food they don't serve.

Oakland, BART and SF police have plenty of recent high profile police brutality cases.

 

[Silver Arrows]

How many rabbit holes have we've gone through at this point?

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I sympathize with people who have places to be because of blocked traffic. But like, people domt protest in the middle of the road for fun. Its to make a point. Life isnt over because you were late for work.

 

[KarneeKarnay]

http://www.joincampaignzero.org/#vision

Tah-Dah! Here's one of numerous orgs that have been advising government officials and presidential candidates.

There out there, you just need to look. And guess what? They are almost all affiliated with BLM!

Very informative and exactly what I was looking for. Couple of policies they want, kinda shocks me that they weren't in use everywhere. This is the sort of thing I would like to see at these protests. That PDF of the polices they want implemented should be being handed out at every protest.

 

[Slayven]

No of course not. I'm questioning whether the Bay Area is an area of where commonplace police brutality fueled by racism occurs. Because if not, well I find it odd and subsequently question what's the purpose of protesting the people/areas that aren't against your cause.

It's similar to complaining at an asian restaurant about italian food they don't serve.

Google " Fruitville Station"

 

[Gotdatmoney]

When people say use other methods i wonder if they think all minorities just keep the governments private numbers in their back pocket and are too lazy to call. I'd love to call Obama, Hilary and Bernie with a nice powerpoint explaining my position. You got that number guys?

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Very informative and exactly what I was looking for. Couple of policies they want, kinda shocks me that they weren't in use everywhere. This is the sort of thing I would like to see at these protests. That PDF of the polices they want implemented should be being handed out at every protest.

They added this today.

http://useofforceproject.org/

 

[Dai101]

How many rabbit holes have we've gone through at this point?

You mean Groundhog Days

 

[Dalek]

No of course not. I'm questioning whether the Bay Area is an area of where commonplace police brutality fueled by racism occurs. Because if not, well I find it odd and subsequently question what's the purpose of protesting the people/areas that aren't against your cause.

It's similar to complaining at an asian restaurant about italian food they don't serve.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Not surprised I posted exactly what this protest was for one page ago with quotes from Black.Seed's spokesperson and like 5 people came in asking what this solves and what it's for.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

lol..

 

[roknin]

Not surprised I posted exactly what this protest was for one page ago with quotes from Black.Seed's spokesperson and like 5 people came in asking what this solves and what it's for.

I'm trying to find stronger words than "utterly frustrating" to describe the feeling I get reading this thread.

Thankfully some are seeing it and its turning some heads. But every ensuing "can't they do something less disruptive, people have places to go" post makes my eyes roll back inside my head.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Thinking about this topic lately I actually dont think people actually inconvenienced by the protest need to be demonized. If you have ever had this sort of thing happen to you it is infact pretty annoying and I do genuinely understand why it pisses people off.

But quite genuinely, those people don't matter to the end goal. Blocking a bridge isn't meant to get the attention of joe average. Its meant to get media and government to acknowledge the cause the protesters are supporting or bringing up. If they turn away some people whose perspective is basically "fight for your cause but dont involve me who did nothing" or "you lost a supporter after inconveniecing me" honestly, who cares? Whether these people support or not they arent the ones with the power to enact change even if they cared enough to try which they dont.

I dont demonize them though because yeah, these types of disruptive protests do demonstratably suck if you are on the other end.

These protests are calculated risks. Getting the attention of 5% of people who have power and influence probably can justify losing a handful of support.

 

[Enzom21]

Thinking about this topic lately I actually dont think people actually inconvenienced by the protest need to be demonized. If you have ever had this sort of thing happen to you it is infact pretty annoying and I do genuinely understand why it pisses people off.

But quite genuinely, those people don't matter to the end goal. Blocking a bridge isn't meant to get the attention of joe average. Its meant to get media and government to acknowledge the cause the protesters are supporting or bringing up. If they turn away some people whose perspective is basically "fight for your cause but dont involve me who did nothing" or "you lost a supporter after inconveniecing me" honestly, who cares? Whether these people support or not they arent the ones with the power to enact change even if they cared enough to try which they dont.

I dont demonize them though because yeah, these types of disruptive protests do demonstratably suck if you are on the other end.

These protests are calculated risks. Getting the attention of 5% of people who have power and influence probably can justify losing a handful of support.

I don't think people are vilifying people being inconvenienced on that bridge.
What a lot of people have issue with is those coming in here talking about "Don't inconvenience white folks with problems that disproportionately affect black people"
"Is this what Malcolm Parks Douglas Jr. would have done? Do something that respects his memory, like another 'I have a dream speech'."

Basically, do something that makes white people comfortable... you know, like that Jr. guy.

They care more about the message is delivered than the message itself.

 

[ABK]

Police brutality is less cool than blocking traffic.

"Police, don't kill us" should be a specific enough message for a decent human being.

I guess I just don't understand what it accomplishes? Of course the ongoing police brutality is way worse than fucking blocking traffic for a bit. I just don't understand who this converts? What white person in that traffic looks at that and then tells themselves "yeah, I should start supporting this movement!" I feel like they would've made that decision way before hand and that happening to them will only make them hate its existence.

 

[shintoki]

I'll be honest, I'd be fucking pissed off if I got stopped for that. I'd definitely want to see the cops come and move their asses off. And if it made me late for work, I'd be even more pissed.

But its also something I'd understand after cooling down.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I guess I just don't understand what it accomplishes? Of course the ongoing police brutality is way worse than fucking blocking traffic for a bit. I just don't understand who this converts? What white person in that traffic looks at that and then tells themselves "yeah, I should start supporting this movement!" I feel like they would've made that decision way before hand and that happening to them will only make them hate its existence.

Why do you think this is about converting white people? Where did you hear or read that this was a goal? Even if they were "converted," what would that even accomplish? Feeling good?

It's unreal how many responses keep making the feelings of white people the goal of this. None of you have ever listened to any black activists.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I'll be honest, I'd be fucking pissed off if I got stopped for that. I'd definitely want to see the cops come and move their asses off. And if it made me late for work, I'd be even more pissed.

But its also something I'd understand after cooling down.

And most would understand your frustration. Without a single doubt.

Question. Would you find constant harassment frustrating? A larger segment of society deciding you're a criminal by default, until proven innocent, frustrating? Being pulled over, as a passenger, and having the police pull you aside just to ask your other three white friends if they're in a "bad" neighborhood willingly, frustrating? I wish I could just say "would." It wasn't the case as a youngin. It's not the case today..

 

[shintoki]

And most would understand your frustration. Without a single doubt.

Question. Would you find constant harassment frustrating? A larger segment of society deciding you're a criminal by default, until proven innocent, frustrating? Being pulled over, as a passenger, and having the police pull you aside just to ask your other three white friends if they're in a "bad" neighborhood willingly, frustrating? I wish I could just say "would." It wasn't the case as a youngin. It's not the case today..

That's the entire point. That's why I would understand. They are fighting for a legitimate cause and reason instead of me being inconvenienced for an hour. My petty grievous is nothing in comparison to the larger picture they are trying to get across.

I think it's alright to be frustrated. Just make sure you end up taking it out on the right people. It isn't the ones on the street.

Should have elaborated more.

 

[norm9]

I guess I just don't understand what it accomplishes? Of course the ongoing police brutality is way worse than fucking blocking traffic for a bit. I just don't understand who this converts? What white person in that traffic looks at that and then tells themselves "yeah, I should start supporting this movement!" I feel like they would've made that decision way before hand and that happening to them will only make them hate its existence.

What blocking traffic does is make the city, state, and federal government enact laws that limit the police's power and their abuse of that power.

 

[phillipgessert]

I just don't understand who this converts?

It's not a recruitment tool.

 

[kame-sennin]

I guess I just don't understand what it accomplishes? Of course the ongoing police brutality is way worse than fucking blocking traffic for a bit. I just don't understand who this converts? What white person in that traffic looks at that and then tells themselves "yeah, I should start supporting this movement!" I feel like they would've made that decision way before hand and that happening to them will only make them hate its existence.

That's not what these protests are for. They are not designed to win people over. Even raising awareness is not their primary goal.

The purpose of these protests is to non-violently attack the infrastructure relied upon by the government and corporate America:

Ken Langone, the co-founder of Home Depot and a major Republican donor, said the protests like those in New York City last fall are bad for business. “If people are afraid to go out of their homes, they don’t shop,” Mr. Langone said.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/bill-de...ness-leaders-over-crisis-with-nypd-1450453369

What protestors are trying to do is twist the arm of those in power. The choice is simple, fix this broken system or see it shut down altogether.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

...arrest them blocking the flow of commerce is like one of the greatest crimes you can commit. and what a shitty chant, it should be more like, "hey ho these are the reps in our district and they don't do SHIT about police brutality and now they will go and we are going to run and govern ourselves"

Then they would realize they've been fucked by zoning laws already.

 

[adamsappel]

Isn't it obvious that this does more harm than good to their cause? These ill conceived blanket disruptions are just as likely to be fucking with the lives of people who support them as not.

What form does that support take? Posting on Facebook or Instagram? Who cares about that? That won't change anything. Like kame-sennin is saying, traffic disruptions, boycotts, etc. are about being a pain in the ass of people who can make a difference. Business owners, tourists, politicians; even cops may decide that while it's a lot of fun being able to harass, beat, and kill black people with impunity, protests against it are impacting their work in such a way that it'd be simpler to make some official policies against it.

 

[mAcOdIn]

Yeah, to this day Hillary refused to say the words right? Pretty good sign how the denocratic establishment is standing on this.

I don't know if she has or not but I think it's kind of irrelevant now.

My thing was this: As a white guy when I heard this was their manner of protest I kinda rolled my eyes. I wondered what good it'd do to go around asking people this, especially of politicians, I mean can't they just be like "yes, black lives matter" as pandering shit just like they do when they give lip service to any other group. Politicians champion women's rights without adding that they also have to protect men's rights and shit like that, the whole thing seemed like a non-issue. So when everyone freezes like a deer in headlights and has to run a mental check to see if it's politically safe to say black lives matter and that some come to the conclusion that they can't, that tells me the problem's much bigger than I thought. I, seemingly wrongly, assumed the issue was a politically safe issue to at the least hold vocally.