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"NBC has killed the Bill Cosby pilot amid the mounting accusations of rape..."

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Derwind

Member
Jesus, what a piece of shit. That account from that Nurse is just nightmare fuel. My hearts out to all those victims. Fuck.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx6KAd_Su3I

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Eh, I'm old enough to remember Spanish Fly. No one then considered it a rape dug, it was something that made girls uncontrollably horny. I remember even girls/women joked about it. Mind you, back then rape was often considered the girls fault, and things like drinking and driving was the norm. So glad it's not that like (as much) now.


So how many women is it up to now?

I heard 5 ... And I heard 15, so not really sure
 

Sanjuro

Member
Releasing unedited footage is gotcha journalism? Cosby dug his own grave in that video.

The manner of the interview, not the release of it.

Also, no. He didn't. He comes off surprised, agitated, and a bullish. There is no shocking revelation gained.
 
The manner of the interview, not the release of it.

Also, no. He didn't. He comes off surprised, agitated, and a bullish. There is no shocking revelation gained.
I mean it depends on how you see it, but when you pair that video up with other accounts of him doing scary stuff in interviews (he once mailed a reporter a rotten piece of fruit for portraying him as a control freak), that video really makes him come across as a person throwing his weight around. He very calmly, but clearly, tells the reporter "don't mess with me, I can have your career ruined if you don't do what I say".
 

Sanjuro

Member
I mean it depends on how you see it, but when you pair that video up with other accounts of him doing scary stuff in interviews (he once mailed a reporter a rotten piece of fruit for portraying him as a control freak), that video really makes him come across as a person throwing his weight around. He very calmly, but clearly, tells the reporter "don't mess with me, I can have your career ruined if you don't do what I say".

Sure. I just don't think the reaction is very surprising, maybe to some individuals. As stated before, nobody comes away looking great in the video.
 
Reading through the thread, and the internet in general, the overwhelming assumption is that he's guilty. It's to the point where people are just waiting for him to confess.

After listening to SERIAL, I'm at the point where I'm re-examining perception and released information. I'm not saying Cosby did or didn't. I'm only adding to the comment above: """...if he did it.

I'm assuming nothing.
 

stufte

Member
And Bill Cosby may have ruined 16 lives all by himself. What's your argument?

It's that *may* part that gets me. The sad part is that it may very well be true, but I'm not going to be yet another person who refuses to let justice take it's course before leveling a judgement against him.

I know over a dozen women in this story who I'm sure agree with you.

Good, because I'd give them the exact same benefit I'm giving him.
 
but I'm not going to be yet another person who refuses to let justice take it's course before leveling a judgement against him.

Why?

What are you getting out of that?

I mean, you've gotta be getting something pretty substantial out of this deal if you're willing to entertain the notion 16 separate women are all lying about getting raped by Bill Cosby.

So what is it you find so distasteful about being one of the people who has read what's come out, digested it, and come to the VERY reasonable conclusion it's safe to assume he probably did this shit and is a disgusting person for it?

edit: no, you're not giving them the benefit. In order for you to take the stance you're taking, you have to allow for the idea all 16 of them are lying. That's not the benefit of the doubt. In order to give it to Cosby, you have to believe they could be lying. In order to give it to them, you have to believe Cosby could have done it.

And if you believe he could have done it, and you're even remotely paying attention to what he's been accused of, and read any of the testimonials given by the people he raped - then what's the point of straddling the fence on this specific issue? What are you getting out of that?
 
Bill Cosby doesn't need the defense. Him having it for decades from the public is why none of these women have gotten any sort of justice.

I do not know what Bill Cosby did.

I know that 5, 10, or 15 different women have said that Bill Cosby did a horrible thing. I do not know them, nor do I know Bill Cosby. I know that each of those women recounted a series of events. I know that I was not privy to the original time the accusations went to court. I know that I was not privy to the why and wherefores of why Bill Cosby settled out of court with some of the women. I can only assume based on limited information and my own personal biases, convictions, and beliefs. Those assumptions can lead me to a conclusion that Cosby can be innocent, or that the girls are telling the truth. It depends on how I choose to take the information.

Here's what I CANNOT do: I cannot assume that because Bill Cosby (or any celebrity) is rich or beloved, that they do not NEED the defense. I cannot assume that because a large group of people feel one way, therefore that opinion is truth or fact.

So yeah, man. I hope Bill Cosby does come clean - if he did it.

But I won't make any assumptions about anybody or any situation. Actual court, and not a jury of public opinion, is what our country uses to sort this type of thing out.

And after listening to SERIAL, that system is VERY broken.
 
And after listening to SERIAL, that system is VERY broken.

It's good that you like the podcast - it's a damn good podcast.

The case in that podcast and what Bill Cosby did to 16 women over the space of 30 years isn't similar, and you can't approach both situations with the same sort of mindset. One is a story selected SPECIFICALLY for it's ability to become compelling drama. The other is a really tired, really basic story of a well-known celebrity leveraging their power to abuse the less-powerful.

They're not similar. Simply saying "Well, I've beeen listening to Serial" isn't a good excuse for seeing a situation where a powerful man raped 16 women and going "well, now wait a min..."
 

stufte

Member
Why?

What are you getting out of that?

I mean, you've gotta be getting something pretty substantial out of this deal if you're willing to entertain the notion 16 separate women are all lying about getting raped by Bill Cosby.

So what is it you find so distasteful about being one of the people who has read what's come out, digested it, and come to the VERY reasonable conclusion it's safe to assume he probably did this shit and is a disgusting person for it?

edit: no, you're not giving them the benefit. In order for you to take the stance you're taking, you have to allow for the idea all 16 of them are lying. That's not the benefit of the doubt. In order to give it to Cosby, you have to believe they could be lying. In order to give it to them, you have to believe Cosby could have done it.

And if you believe he could have done it, and you're even remotely paying attention to what he's been accused of, and read any of the testimonials given by the people he raped - then what's the point of straddling the fence on this specific issue? What are you getting out of that?

Now that's just not true. I don't know if they're lying or not. Just like I don't know if Cosby is innocent or not. Just because I choose to see how this plays out doesn't mean I am not willing to believe them, I'm just not making a judgement about it, because I *don't know* the truth, just like all of you. You think you do, and that's fine. But people who don't know aren't somehow rapist supporters.
 
Why?

What are you getting out of that?

Can I ask what you personally get out of believing so firmly that he's guilty? I'm honestly interested. Does that bring you happiness? Clearness? What exactly? Why is your stance better than simply saying 'I don't know Cosby. I don't know these women. I don't know if this is true.'

Again, I'm not judging, would just honestly like to know.
 

Dr.Acula

Banned
It's good that you like the podcast - it's a damn good podcast.

The case in that podcast and what Bill Cosby did to 16 women over the space of 30 years isn't similar, and you can't approach both situations with the same sort of mindset. One is a story selected SPECIFICALLY for it's ability to become compelling drama. The other is a really tired, really basic story of a well-known celebrity leveraging their power to abuse the less-powerful.

They're not similar. Simply saying "Well, I've beeen listening to Serial" isn't a good excuse for seeing a situation where a powerful man raped 16 women and going "well, now wait a min..."

After hearing about Cosby's pilot and comedy special going down in flames horribly, his life is more closely mirroring that podcast "Start-up."
 
Can I ask what you personally get out of believing so firmly that he's guilty? I'm honestly interested. Does that bring you happiness? Clearness? What exactly? Why is your stance better than simply saying 'I don't know Cosby. I don't know these women. I don't know if this is true.' Again, I'm not judging, would honestly like to know.
One aspect is you're no longer contributing to a culture that disbelieves women who say they've been raped and makes them afraid to come forward about it. 16 women being involved means you have to believe 16 women are all lying and 1 man is telling the truth even just to waffle on it.
 
Now that's just not true.

Sure it is. You're currently allowing for a possibility where 16 different women are lying about Bill Cosby drugging their drinks or feeding them pills and then sexually assaulting them. If you're allowing for that possibility even AFTER reading their experiences, then I don't know, man. It's weird to say "I'm going to wait on taking a stance here" after that, to me.

CartridgeBlower said:
Can I ask what you personally get out of believing the other side?

The small sense of satisfaction that comes in knowing I'm not defending/supporting a multiple rapist?

There's that.

Sometimes, you gotta pick a side. It's not any more morally righteous to cram a whole fence up your ass sideways in this instance than it is to pick a side.
 
Damn. Old Bill Cosby is really fucking unsettling.

Carnage2-transform(b).gif

That's definitely one way to look at it. Here's another - I've been in LA long enough where I see this type of PR handling as typical. Type A power people roll like this all the time. Shigeru Miyamoto, for example, is supposedly gangsta like this off cam, too. It's just what it is. He doesn't come off any creepier ( to me), but rather, a typical hollywood producer used to the game. Fortunately/unfortunately: AP went rogue and posted it. That's that new journalism in the age of the internet. All kinds of taboos being broken. Can't say whether that's good or bad. It's just race for soundbites an relevancy.

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you really think he's guilty?

I don't know. My personal horse in the race? I hope not. Bill Cosby means a lot to me personally. My heart is genuinely broken that TV Land pulled the Cosby Show. If he's innocent, I hope that it comes to light and that he'll be cleared to the public's standards considering his legacy is really all he has.

If he's guilty, many women were raped. Justice has to be served, rich or poor. That is HORRIBLE and a monstrous abuse of power. The punishment should fit the crime. Period. To that end, the punishment should be equally awful. If so, it better be proven.

Then there's the matter of re-examining his legacy. Is the implication that all of it gets tossed? All of the good works?

Many questions. It's messy.

I'm not assuming a damn thing.
 
It's good that you like the podcast - it's a damn good podcast.

The case in that podcast and what Bill Cosby did to 16 women over the space of 30 years isn't similar, and you can't approach both situations with the same sort of mindset. One is a story selected SPECIFICALLY for it's ability to become compelling drama. The other is a really tired, really basic story of a well-known celebrity leveraging their power to abuse the less-powerful.

They're not similar. Simply saying "Well, I've been listening to Serial" isn't a good excuse for seeing a situation where a powerful man raped 16 women and going "well, now wait a min..."

Again: How do you know that he did it? Because 16 women said that he did it? Has it been proven? How can it be proven satisfactorily?
 
Again: How do you know that he did it? Because 16 women said that he did it?

Have you not read some of the stories these women have put on the public record, with their names attached to them?

How much do you actually know about the particulars of this controversy, man?

I don't like that he did this either. Almost everything I ever learned about comedy, I learned from listening to Bill Cosby LPs through headphones attached to my mom's hi-fi stereo. I had "Bill Cosby is a Very Funny Fellow" memorized by the time I was age 7. The whole thing. Front to back. Bill Cosby's voice, his mannerisms, his stand-up, his TV show, are all very strongly tied to specific childhood memories that brought a smile to my face.

But none of that means shit compared to knowing he raped 16 women over the course of 30 years. And it would be shitty of me to place my rose-colored memories on a level of importance ABOVE the amount of suffering and abuse he dealt out in those three decades.

I would like that he didn't do it either. But my having laughed a lot at his stand-up doesn't make the likeliness that he did that shit any lesser. And it doesn't provide me enough doubt to question those 16 women and their stories.

You're a guy who doesn't want him to have done it, who is listening to a podcast about real-life mysteries, and conflating the two as a means to hold out hope you don't have to think about one of your heroes differently.

I'm a guy who doesn't want him to have done it, who's read up on what he's been accused of, how he's reacted to it, what he's done in response to the stories that have come out, read what those stories are, and decided that I can't always get what I want.

I believe he raped those women. The level of satisfactory proof, for me, has been met. I get the sense you've placed that level at "his confession" and I dont' think that's a thing we're going to get, because if he had the stones for that shit, he'd have either let the case go to trial the first time it was brought, or he'd have admitted it then.
 

slit

Member
I don't know. My personal horse in the race? I hope not. Bill Cosby means a lot to me personally. My heart is genuinely broken that TV Land pulled the Cosby Show. If he's innocent, I hope that it comes to light and that he'll be cleared to the public's standards considering his legacy is really all he has.

If he's guilty, many women were raped. Justice has to be served, rich or poor. That is HORRIBLE and a monstrous abuse of power. The punishment should fit the crime. Period. To that end, the punishment should be equally awful. If so, it better be proven.

Then there's the matter of re-examining his legacy. Is the implication that all of it gets tossed? All of the good works?

Many questions. It's messy.

I'm not assuming a damn thing.

I guess that's up to the individual. Publicly? Probably. His legacy is completely tarnished. I see no logical explanation for why all these women would lie. That would entail a major conspiracy that has no reason to exist. You don't have to assume anything if you don't want to, but a lot of people know when something is as plain as day. His influence and talent does not excuse anything he did. He only has himself to blame, nobody else. If you're disappointed, be disappointed in him. Not the media and not people on a message board.
 
I want to know who the enablers and confidants are. Unlike Polanski and Allen, whose crimes were more 1-on-1, the sheer volume here pretty strongly suggests that many others knew about it. Can those people live with themselves?
 
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