NPD Sales Results for July 2013 [Up2: 3DS Minimum, AC:NL, LM2/NSMBU LTDs, Xbox 360]

Nov 21, 2006
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Maybe if they can do a quick turn around with direct sequels and reuse assets. Super Mario 3D Land 2, new Fire Emblem/Advance Wars, Majora's Mask 3DS, new Starfox, Pokemon Z. I agree with the price though. $120 and under always felt like great value for handhelds. I remember the GBC being less than some new N64 carts.
I agree, those handhelds are way too expensive. Not the hardware itself, but the cost of having them as plataforms.

Look at the Vita for example, crazy priced memory cards and 40 dollar games. It won´t work. If there´s one thing that smartphones have told us is that mobile entertainement should be 10 dollars or less.

No need to try to go AAA on Vita.

Even the physical releases should be 20 at best. I´m not saying the handheld would set the industry on fire, but at least it would do respectable numbers as a niche system.
 
Nov 13, 2011
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This actually isn't true. As far as TVs are concerned, 3D TV sales were up YoY in the first quarter of this fiscal year, and manufacturers are realizing that 3D is a relevant selling point on larger TVs, not smaller ones, and are shifting to match that demand. On top of that, Disney has found that, while not successful in theaters, their 3D versions of both classic Disney films and Pixar's library are huge hits on Blu-Ray, and look to be continuing to convert titles to 3D moving forward. I assume other studios have found the same, given the increasing number of 3D Blu-Ray releases, including older titles like Predator and The Wizard of Oz, which will be re-released in 3D later this year.
 
Jul 27, 2009
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I really wish Nintendo would drop the two screen handheld. It's just awkward and bulky, and I haven't played anything that really benefited from it. (I realize this is just a preference thing.)
 
Jan 5, 2012
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Gaming trends. PS3 selling less than the PS2. Vita failing in the west. Smartphone/Tablet gaming on the rise. Then again, I might be looking too into those things. We should get a good idea on how things are playing out a year or two into next gen.

I'm excited to be getting my PS4 this fall. Hopefully in October like it's rumored. *fingers crossed*
Gaming trends of x360+ps3 selling 160 milions combined and still counting versus total of 200 milions ps2+xbox+gc ?

With Nintendo comiting market suicide and Microsoft fully concentrating on USA+UK I'd say Sony can hope to dominate market.

This actually isn't true. As far as TVs are concerned, 3D TV sales were up YoY in the first quarter of this fiscal year, and manufacturers are realizing that 3D is a relevant selling point on larger TVs, not smaller ones, and are shifting to match that demand.
It's nearly impossible to buy higher end tv without 3d mode.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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So you're saying that because people may have begun looking to mobile instead of dedicated handhelds, they may fall down a slippery slope to no longer wanting big screen console experiences.
generally speaking, yes. this happened in japan to a degree (although people jumped from consoles to dedicated handhelds). there's nothing to suggest it can't, won't, or hasn't happened with the shifting market in america.

I just personally don't see as much overlap and substitution between the iPhone and the home console, compared to them very easily serving as a substitute for a handheld, even for the casual (not the audience the Wii brought in) market. Perhaps when FIFA, Madden and COD type games become pervasive and equivalent enough experiences on such devices.
i am talking about the casual market. not just the audience the wii brought in, but the one that usually buys inexpensive or valuable hardware (the ps2's fanbase and the 360's late fanbase as well).

consider the 3ds the canary in the goldmine. if something very definite is happening one once incredibly stable and successful part of the market (even when the ds was facing a huge uphill battle, the psp and the gba kept on trucking), it probably doesn't mean that everything else is just hunky dory.
 
Feb 5, 2009
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That would be impossible without dual screens to support said games.
And then i'll tell you: "Look at the type of interactions developers are employing with the dual screen of the 3DS".

Since Nintendo opted to use the assymetrical screen setup with the 3DS the touch screen has been relegated to a secondary use. While it might not work for every 3DS game port is a lot easier now, since It is a far cry from the DS games when you had the main interactions taking place on the touch screen. So basically you toss of the ever persistent map on the 2nd screen or the shortcut keys and port your game.

Take for example how MHTri or Revelations were ported to home consoles.
 
3D is still going up the scale though... A lot of 50 inch sets are now coming into that $650-$800 range without 3D which is really enticing to people who bought 32-37 inch sets awhile back. It's hard to say where 3D goes from here, but Nintendo could easily continue using it in a handheld because frankly, it's very striking if you don't own a set already.

I really like it.
 
Jun 9, 2012
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3D is still going up the scale though... A lot of 50 inch sets are now coming into that $650-$800 range without 3D which is really enticing to people who bought 32-37 inch sets awhile back. It's hard to say where 3D goes from here, but Nintendo could easily continue using it in a handheld because frankly, it's very striking if you don't own a set already.

I really like it.
Like i said though who produces these 4 inch 480p plus glasses free 3d screens. Also 3D's detrimental effect on the battery even while turned off is not a good trade.I really don't see nintendo worrying too much about 3d
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Mar 10, 2011
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As far as i know sharp doesn't have any higher res 3d screens. The 3d fad is dead and i dont think they would even choose 3d for the 3ds given the option. They need a new angle next time although there seems to be very little new tech that can benefit games.

I think a 149 handheld with a 5-6 hour battery with a new 2d mario and something else at launch would do fine.
Launch doesn't need a 2D Mario. Launch needs a 3D Mario. Despite 2D Mario being theorically the biggest seller by far, 3D Mario seems to me much better suited for a launch. Especially if it's made with the 3D Land formula in mind. 2D Mario is better one / two years after the launch, I feel.
 
Mar 25, 2005
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At least with european data we get weekly charts and individual formats. Fuck npd. The combined top 10 has ruined everything
If NPD is going to insist on giving us the Top 10 only, I would rather it be a combined Top 10 than having them break apart games by platform. Sure, this means that a lot of mid-tier exclusives never chart, but I wouldn't want a Nov 2013 Top 10 that was 2-3 COD Ghosts, 2 Assassin Creed 4s, 2 Watchdogs, etc.
 
Like i said though who produces these 4 inch 480p plus glasses free 3d screens. Also 3D's detrimental effect on the battery even while turned off is not a good trade.I really don't see nintendo worrying too much about 3d
I suppose Nintendo produces them! Via an outside manufacturer of course. You don't HAVE to use off the shelf parts for a handheld.

We'll see. I suspect the next handheld (which is at least two years away IMO) will be another blue ocean design. A next third pillar if you will. It's time.
 
Nov 13, 2011
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We'll see. I suspect the next handheld (which is at least two years away IMO) will be another blue ocean design. A next third pillar if you will. It's time.
I disagree. 3DS is still a big success, so I suspect we have at least one more system in the DS line to go.

On the console front, though, I suspect we'll get either a big tech push next time, or another blue ocean design, simply because Wii U has proven something BIG needs to change with regards to hardware design, software development schedules, and marketing.
 
May 9, 2006
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An honest question guys.

PS3 and Xbox360 are selling bad because they cost so much right?
PS360 sales peaked in 2011,during the week of Black Friday.

Xbox 360 Sells Nearly 1M Consoles in Biggest Week in Xbox History (29 Nov 2011)

Between January 2012 and July 2013 PS360 sold an additional 11 million units at ludicrous price points.

PS360 has already surpassed the previous generation of PS/XB,so hardware sales are suffering.

Price drops cannot stop the sales decline,but they can extend the cycle. For example,the PS2 started its decline in Spring 2003.

Price cuts will help PS360 in the US,but keep in mind that 1) the US is an early-adopter market compared to the rest of the world 2) the dominant console in the US market was launched in 2005

So if Sony and MS decide to drop the price to $99-129, wouldn't that eat into the next generation sales?
The PS2 is the only traditional console that exploded out the gate.Sony sold 50 million units in less than three years.

The PS2 had record sales during the first months,but the most important thing is that games like FF/MGS/GTA 3/GT3/DMC/Onimusha were next-gen titles,so core gamers didn't have a choice in 2001.

If you give core gamers an option,this is what happens (PS360 was a monumental waste of money,Blu-ray and RROD were the icing on the cake)

Code:
US Hardware Sales (First 18 Months)
 
  360    5,399,661  

  Xbox   5,220,174
Code:
 Global Shipments (October 2005 - September 2009)

               HW         SW
            
  PS2         47.6       588.9         
                          
  360         33.6        -

  PS3         27.0       213.6

The vast majority of PS360 owners arrived late to the party,so HD Twins sales are still great (PS software sales increased last quarter).The global demand is increasingly shifting to the small markets,which means that you have to play ball at the PS3 strongholds.

Code:
                                  PS360 Hardware

                             US Sales       Shipments         %                          
  
      LTD                     63.6 m         156 m           40.8

July’12 – June’13             7.8 m          23 m            33.9

PS360 has all the tools to slow down the transition in most regions (sales,room to drop prices,big games).

That said,Microsoft has done a fantastic job in selling the PS4 in the early-adopter markets (basically US/UK),so the PS4 sales will exceed expectations in the early stages,caeteris paribus.
 
Mar 25, 2005
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Price cuts will help PS360 in the US,but keep in mind that 1) the US is an early-adopter market compared to the rest of the world 2) the dominant console in the US market was launched in 2005
Not counting developing markets, it the US really an early adapter market? I seem to remember the Wii and DS dying out a lot quicker in Japan/Europe than North America. I think the PS2 fared better here in later years than Japan as well. The GBA definitely did. Japan strikes me as the quickest to switch over to something new.
 
I feel I should note that the Nikkei said the following:

Gamasutra said:
In a bid to hasten game development on both its 3DS and Wii U video game systems, Nintendo plans to merge its handheld and console divisions next month, Nintendo has confirmed to Gamasutra.

On February 16, the Japanese publishing giant will bring the separate divisions together, opening a new unified sector that will include 130 console engineers and 150 handhand engineers.

A Nikkei report (subscription required) also states that Nintendo plans to open a new $340 million facility next to its headquarters in Kyoto, with the aim to open the new building by the end of the year.

The hope is that by merging these two divisions, the company will also be able to speed up its hardware development cycle to better compete with tablets and smartphones.

http://gamasutra.com/view/news/1848...handheld_and_console_divisions_next_month.php
And that Iwata said the following:

Iwata said:
As you might already know from some newspaper reports, we will reorganize our development divisions next month for the first time in nine years. Two divisions which have independently developed handheld devices and home consoles will be united to form the Integrated Research & Development Division, which will be headed by Genyo Takeda, Senior Managing Director.

Last year we also started a project to integrate the architecture for our future platforms. What we mean by integrating platforms is not integrating handhelds devices and home consoles to make only one machine. What we are aiming at is to integrate the architecture to form a common basis for software development so that we can make software assets more transferrable, and operating systems and their build-in applications more portable, regardless of form factor or performance of each platform. They will also work to avoid software lineup shortages or software development delays which tend to happen just after the launch of new hardware.
Some time ago it was technologically impossible to have the same architecture for handheld devices and home consoles and what we did was therefore reasonable. Although it has not been long since we began to integrate the architecture and this will have no short-term result, we believe that it will provide a great benefit to our platform business in the long run. I am covering this topic as today is our Corporate Management Policy Briefing.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/130131/05.html
Unless they intend to try to shove an IBM CPU and AMD GPU into a handheld (lol), chances are they're interested in using mobile parts for both their handhelds and consoles, while upclocking/using more powerful ones in their consoles.

---

Theoretically could one larger high res touch screen still have digital BC?
Take your pick, sans the on screen buttons:

 
Jul 9, 2007
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Launch doesn't need a 2D Mario. Launch needs a 3D Mario. Despite 2D Mario being theorically the biggest seller by far, 3D Mario seems to me much better suited for a launch. Especially if it's made with the 3D Land formula in mind. 2D Mario is better one / two years after the launch, I feel.
Launches need a game that provides a new experience that excites people about the possibility of the platform. That can be anything from Wii Sports to Halo. This is even more important for Nintendo since they can't/don't rely on simple graphic upgrades to provide a feeling a newness for their platforms.

If they're going to do a 3D Mario game, it's better that it's revolutionary like Mario 64 than a direct sequel like 3D Land 2. Providing people with something they feel they can get elsewhere will get the base interested, but with no growth (see: NSMBU).
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Mar 10, 2011
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Launches need a game that provides a new experience that excites people about the possibility of the platform. That can be anything from Wii Sports to Halo. This is even more important for Nintendo since they can't/don't rely on simple graphic upgrades to provide a feeling a newness for their platforms.

If they're going to do a 3D Mario game, it's better that it's revolutionary like Mario 64 than a direct sequel like 3D Land 2. Providing people with something they feel they can get elsewhere will get the base interested, but with no growth (see: NSMBU).
"3D Land formula in mind" doesn't mean it needs to be 3D Land 2. I mean, it should be a big effort, with some big changes (especially in appearance; or better, the game's world being rather different than the usual Mushroom Kingdom, like in Galaxy games), but it shouldn't abandon the 3D Land formula (i.e. levels that feel perfect for a portable system)
 

John Harker

Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Feb 26, 2005
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Yes:

"New Super Mario Bros. U for Wii U surpassed 830,000 lifetime sales of combined physical and digital units."
I mean, I knew numbers were low, but that's lower than I would have projected.

Still, it's probably the NSMBU audience specifically, these guys just bought the console for that game, so you'd expect most of that attach to be retail to hardware on purchase. I suppose that makes sense. Any other examples that combine the two?
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Mar 10, 2011
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I mean, I knew numbers were low, but that's lower than I would have projected.

Still, it's probably the NSMBU audience specifically, these guys just bought the console for that game, so you'd expect most of that attach to be retail to hardware on purchase. I suppose that makes sense. Any other examples that combine the two?
Animal Crossing:

505k first month, with around 20% of sales through eShop
150k second month

Total (retail + eShop) = around 660k.

EDIT: The first month they combined the bundle too, so it should be the same for July...unless there's no bundle anymore.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Mar 10, 2011
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Shin Megami Tensei IV between 65k and 70k, without digital sales being considered (I'd estimate around, given it was high in eShop charts) is an amazing result. In around 20 days, it smashed the LTD results of many other SMT titles. And this despite being priced 49.99. On the eShop too.

This is a good sign that the Club Nintendo promotion worked, and in a good way, and this is why I hope Nintendo will apply it again and again...but there's a catch, looking at Nintendo. I'll explain it better.
Since this promotion gives a $30 credit to who buys both Fire Emblem and SMT, it's obvious that this is only possible thanks to Nintendo "sacrifying" 30$ profit for each Fire Emblem copy used for the promotion. It's impossible to ask to a third party to do that. So, promotions like this (or the European one for W101) need a first party title. But here's the real problem.
You can certainly combine SMT and FE: they are two JRPG franchises, sharing a lot of their audience. In the same way, Mario 3D World and Sonic Lost World can be combined, and it's what I'm expecting to see in this upcoming Holidays...but Watchdogs? What Nintendo first party title can be combined with Watchdogs? No Nintendo title on Wii U right now can be combined with it. Maybe, if X were released now...but, in the current situation, it's impossible. The same can be said for Assassin's Creed IV, Call of Duty: Ghosts, Splinter Cell Blacklist, Batman Arkham Origins...
The same on 3DS: Batman Arkham Origins Blackgate can't be combined with any of the current Nintendo 3DS offering. However, on 3DS the situation is nowhere near as bad, ironically due to the low-profile Western support, combined with the high level Japanese support: I'd say combining Pokémon X/Y and Monster Hunter 4 is possible, it'd be a great way to make many older Pokémon fans (and they are quite consistent) discover a different take on catching monsters; combining Fire Emblem Awakening (again!) with Etrian Odissey: Millennium Girl; combining Zelda: A Link Between Worlds with...Adventure Time: EtdbIDK!. Yeah, Adventure Time is a far bigger possibility for these promotions than Batman XD

This is the only catch about this kind of promotion, and it's all due to Nintendo's first party lineup. 2014 shows there would be many "mature" titles from Nintendo, making pormotions with Western core titles far more possible...but then there will probably be a different problem (i.e. third parties not looking back at Wii U).

However, I hope this thing will be repeated again (many times, I'd say), and being applied by Sony and MS too. Heck, you know what? It would be the PERFECT way to enhance launch sales! Think about it: a Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft title (especially a new IP) giving the possibility to have a 40-50% on one title of a closed selection (3 titles), with things like AC, COD, WD, etc. in it, if you buy both digitally. In this way

1)You'd give the brand new IP a good spotlight, giving it the possibility to have good, if not great sales
2)You'd actively help third parties in selling their content right at launch
3)Audience for that kind of games would start being built quickly
4)People would discover the digital way much sooner.
5)People would have more money for buying other titles, if they want, digital exclusives or retail ones.
 
Sep 30, 2012
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Nintendo 3DS: Above 141K (+14%)
Xbox 360: 107K (-47.3%)
Microsoft PR said:
Xbox 360 continues to maintain its lead in the U.S. console market. Xbox 360 sold 107,000 units, more than any other console in the U.S., making July the 31st consecutive month Xbox 360 was the best-selling console in the U.S.
Why is Microsoft lying in their raport?


I really wish Nintendo would drop the two screen handheld. It's just awkward and bulky, and I haven't played anything that really benefited from it. (I realize this is just a preference thing.)
No no no no, 2 screens must stay.
I don't want ever again pause game to look at inventory or map.
 
Feb 23, 2010
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I tend to agree with this. Lest people think I'm an anti-Nintendo fanboy from my posts in this thread, I think that the 3ds/3ds XL will be the best-selling console this generation, once all of the pre-orders and launch holiday sales of the PS4 and Xbox One are over. There just isn't a good market for non-portable consoles anymore, with the mobile market in general (which the 3ds is a part of) being so dominant for people's money and attention.
This post is so funny. Yeah, let's lump the 3DS together with its biggest competition and pretend that home consoles have suffered a greater impact from mobile devices than portable consoles have, despite the fact that we've seen the exact opposite occurring.
 
Aug 3, 2009
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You can certainly combine SMT and FE: they are two JRPG franchises, sharing a lot of their audience. In the same way, Mario 3D World and Sonic Lost World can be combined, and it's what I'm expecting to see in this upcoming Holidays...but Watchdogs? What Nintendo first party title can be combined with Watchdogs?
Well clearly you haven't played the iconic LEGO City.
 
Mar 25, 2005
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I feel like that $30 eShop credit is not going to cost Nintendo nearly as much as $30 times whatever number of credits were claimed. Maybe it is slightly different in Canada than it is in the US, but when I look at the recent software top sellers on the 3DS eShop, 16 of the top 20 are Nintendo titles (9 out of the top 10). Most of that money is just going to go towards Nintendo titles and DLC, which doesn't cost them anything out of pocket other than a potential lost/reduced price sale. Their cut from increased SMT sales and perhaps some additional Fire Emblem sales will also offset that.

All in all, I think it was a pretty safe promotion.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Mar 10, 2011
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Well clearly you haven't played the iconic LEGO City.
...!
I...totally forgot about it. And I'm so sorry :( But, thinking more about it, I don't think Lego City is such a good partner for Watch Dogs, audiences are probably very different between the two games, I fear. Yeah, I know there are many instances in the game with jokes only grown up people can comprehend (like the CHOPPA's reference), but I don't think it's enough to say who bought Lego City could use a promotion for buying Watch Dogs.
 
Shin Megami Tensei IV between 65k and 70k, without digital sales being considered (I'd estimate around, given it was high in eShop charts) is an amazing result. In around 20 days, it smashed the LTD results of many other SMT titles. And this despite being priced 49.99. On the eShop too.
Wait... what? So the 65-70k was just the retail? Then probably the sales will be 80k++ with digital included? If that's the case then, that's pretty awesome for SMTIV. Nice!
 
Mar 25, 2005
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Wait... what? So the 65-70k was just the retail? Then probably the sales will be 80k++ with digital included? If that's the case then, that's pretty awesome for SMTIV. Nice!
I'd imagine that SMT4 skewed more heavily towards retail than normal. The eshop version was still $50 even though it was missing all the goodies. On My 3DS' recent top sellers charts, SMTIV is 4 places below Fire Emblem, even though Fire Emblem has been out for 6 months.
 
Oct 13, 2009
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This was surprising, not unexpected, but surprising.

According to analytics firm SuperData, the U.S. mobile market has seen a 32 percent uptick in revenue over the same period in 2012, coming in at $271 million. Leading the pack is, to the surprise of no one, King's Candy Crush Saga, which brought in $438,000 a day in the month of July.

Meanwhile, digital sales for PC and console are on a downward trend, dropping to $286 million last month -- a year-on-year decrease of 12.6 percent. In this category Valve's Steam service was again the chief breadwinner, bringing in $158 million of the month's digital sales for PC.
from Gamasutra by Kris Ligman.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/198482/Digital_games_are_now_a_11_billion_market_thanks_to_mobile.php

I thought a rising tide would lift all boats. I wonder why spending is still going down on the PC and consoles.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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^^^^

Err, that is some interesting extrapolation. As far as I know Valve hasn't made Steam numbers public. You get individual games here and there, but we have no idea the totality of monthly Steam revenue.

The Club Nintendo promotion is the only reason why I bought SMT4 right away. Worked on me.

Waiting to see if we will get a similar Wonderful 101/Pikmin 3 promotion like Europe has.
 

jcm

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Jul 26, 2006
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Wait... what? So the 65-70k was just the retail? Then probably the sales will be 80k++ with digital included? If that's the case then, that's pretty awesome for SMTIV. Nice!
I doubt SMTIV's digital sales were anything significant. The retail version came in the fancy deluxe packages with a nice artbook and a sampler soundtrack, while the digital edition came with nothing but a $50 price tag.
 
I'd imagine that SMT4 skewed more heavily towards retail than normal. The eshop version was still $50 even though it was missing all the goodies. On My 3DS' recent top sellers charts, SMTIV is 4 places below Fire Emblem, even though Fire Emblem has been out for 6 months.
I doubt SMTIV's digital sales were anything significant. The retail version came in the fancy deluxe packages with a nice artbook and a sampler soundtrack, while the digital edition came with nothing but a $50 price tag.
Oh well, I guess I'm being too optimistic upon reading that :lol
 
Mar 25, 2005
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Who is analytics firm Superdata, and what is the source of their Super Data?
According to their website:

Data

Q:
What type of data do we have and where do we get it?
A:
Every month we collect the spending data of 2,850,000 unique paying online gamers directly from publishers and developers, totaling 50+ publishers and 450+ game titles.
Without knowing what publishers they cover, who knows how much they can be trusted. If most of those pubs are mobile ventures, than their Steam stuff is likely to be as accurate as Chartzz.
 
Oct 13, 2009
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Who is analytics firm Superdata, and what is the source of their Super Data?
I looked them up:
SuperData publishes industry-relevant key performance indicators. Using our proprietary data set—pulled directly from publishers and developers—on 2,850,000 paying digital gamers, we establish monthly benchmarks such as ARPPU, conversion rates, lifetime value, and revenues.
http://www.superdataresearch.com/about/

Edit: and beaten