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Freeman76
Member
Mate you are fucking clueless. Read up on the differences between men and women. Educate yourself. Luckily here there is an ignore button but in RL you will make enemies fast unless you get a bit of pragmatism about you.
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
F
fantomena
- you're approaching the problem from the angle that men are simply defective women. This is simply not the case. I don't judge men who engage in more feminine activities but their freedom should not come at the cost of men's freedom to be masculine. I'd be curious on your opinion of the advert btw - https://www.neogaf.com/threads/off-...rsonal-keep-it-in-here.1462647/post-253716046 I make the point that if it was about being a Muslim it would be considered hugely offensive. What say you?
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
Nothing wrong with crying when it’s appropriate.
In saying that, men and women are different. Always have been, always will be. Biology, pure and simple.
You can try your darndest to turn a man into a woman, but it ain’t happening. Try to teach a lion not to hunt or try to teach a fish to walk. Not gonna happen.
It’s just nature. It is what it is.
In saying that, men and women are different. Always have been, always will be. Biology, pure and simple.
You can try your darndest to turn a man into a woman, but it ain’t happening. Try to teach a lion not to hunt or try to teach a fish to walk. Not gonna happen.
It’s just nature. It is what it is.
This seems like a statement so obvious that it doesn't need to be said.
Like, of course if something is "toxic" then it is going to be a problem by definition.
The problems comes in when we are pretty fucking vague on what is actually "toxic", why and to what extent.
"Toxic Masculinity is bad". Well, no shit, Sherlock. It's toxic.
Problem:
You are asked to give examples of "non toxic" masculinity.
"That he can cry to whatever he wants." - That can be toxic too. If someone just crys whenever they feel like it it can have a negative impact on their life. It's toxic.
"He can eat what he wants." - That can be toxic too. Just eating what you want can lead to health issues etc. Negative impact. Toxic.
"That he can be as emotional he wants." - Potentially toxic. There is a time and a place for certain emotions and keeping emotions in check can be invaluable in certain situations. Negative emotions, and emotions not appropriate for the situation at hand. CAN be destructive and toxic.
You get the idea by now, I'm sure.
The problem with the label "toxic" is that you can easily come up with a way to apply it to almost anything.
I could say you are a toxic individual just from the fact that someone who fully buys into your List of Bullshit could end up hindering themselves over some stupid belief that following "fantomena's Seven Rules For Life" will mean they are a non-toxic male.
Don't buy into this "Toxic Masculinity" bullshite mate. Is it true that some men are fucking terrible people? Yup. Is that horribleness an inherent feature of masculinity? Nope.
Is there such a thing as Toxic Femininity? Can you give me some examples?
Maybe it's just that some women can be awful people too but it's not a feature of femininity?
It's going to fucking wreck your head when you discover that some men are emotional and sensitive, not afraid to cry, not ashamed of going vegan, willing to take their wife's name, willing to let the wife bang other dudes, willing to take care of the kids and not give a damn what society things AND STILL are horrible fucking cunts who do shitty things that your average "toxic male" would never dream of doing.
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Thanks. So, you've listed categorically feminine traits or cultural markers of female gender identity.
Masculinity is toxic if it's masculine, and non-toxic if it's feminine? Does that not strike you as a strange assertion?
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
Re toxic femininity:
- crying used as a weapon, a means to subdue opposition or get what you want.
- deliberately getting pregnant to trap a man (damaging condoms, 'forgetting' to take the pill - more common than you might think, I know a few guys who've been trapped that way)
- social bullying (to be fair, the crying one is part of that) - women are vicious to each other, and any male working in a female-dominated workplace doesn't stand a chance against that stuff - we're simply not equipped to fight back in that arena
- hating women who are more attractive - seriously, women fucking hate each other
Just a few off the top of my head.
mekes
Member
I agree with
F
fantomena
in that everyone should be whoever they want. I don’t see any issue in a guy carrying his baby around like that, I think that’s a pretty masculine thing to do. I take issue in the call out culture creating all of these buzz words, you know the ones by this point. Saying men need to stop this, need to stop that. These people that see one or 2 videos and decided that guys are all “this” or “that.” There is so much labelling going on amongst what I assume to be a very vocal group of negative youngsters. Toxic masculinity isn’t a thing just because some morons on twitter said the words. Sexual assault, violence and bullying are things, we can talk about those. Toxic masculinity is such a loaded, bullshit statement that the message is always going to be confusing and hard to discuss.
What's funny of course is that for some of the things F fantomena has listed not only are they stereotypical feminine traits but if they are taken to extremes they could easily come under a banner of Toxic Femininity.
She cries to whatever she wants.
She can eat what she wants.
That she can be as emotional she wants.
That she cares about the things she wants.
Take any of these too far and you have an individual who becomes an absolute nightmare for anyone to deal with.
An individual who is emotionally volatile, unpredictable, unstable.
An individual who, due to the above characteristics, corrodes relationships and poisons friendships.
An individual who some might describe as "toxic".
Papa
Banned
A weasel
Papa
Banned
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/gill...mmercial-highlighting-metoo-movement.1471050/ for the gaf topic on Gilette's wankishness.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
I think the major issue here is to even call characteristics and behaviour masculine or feminine if they are observable in both sexes and in a very large range. Of course, there are characteristics or interests that are statistically more common in males or females, or even are linked to sexual hormones (thinking e.g. aggressiveness), but identifying them beyond statistics to sex is a major issue that leads to identity problems and I feel it is one of the big reasons we even have the whole gender discussions and a majority of transgender cases: internalised expectations of behaviour and interests based on sex.
Maybe let me try to list a few things that are more common with males or commonly associated with male sex (be it right or wrong, I'm no biologist to be able to validate if these things are actually linked in a way to male sex) that are not (per se) toxic:
- Eagerness (unless it extends tow zealotery)
- Competitiveness (to reach new heights e.g. in science; basically as long as competitiveness is motivating to improve the own work rather than diminishing others)
- Persuasiveness (unless it extends to harassment)
- Rationality (unless it extends to cruelty / heartlessness)
- Braveness (unless it extends to stupidity)
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D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, it was an odd way for them to list HAVING to have those traits in order to be a "non-toxic" man. To me, non-toxic masculinity is just not being a dominating asshole. They don't have to have those traits themselves, but they also shouldn't look down on men who do.
To me, examples of toxic masculinity are the dominating, asshole types who insult men who have what are more often considered feminine traits, insult gay men, insult women who don't adhere to strict gender roles, don't respect women in the work force/don't like working for women, are sexual harassers/womanizers/objectifiers and so on. Not that it requires all that type of stuff in any one person, just that those kind of views and behaviors are what I see as toxic masculinity.
Gamergate really ruined the online gaming community IMO as so much degenerates into fighting between feminists and anti-feminists and everyone in between who cares enough to engage with either side and most sites skew more to one side or the other. One of many reasons that has me on my quest to spend less time online in 2019--and I've been doing a good job of cutting back so far.
kbear
Member
https://www.resetera.com/threads/why-is-era-so-particularly-angry-this-2019.93449/#post-16869170
Tremendous post right there, much better than the typical ERA whining, dude nails it on every front
Tremendous post right there, much better than the typical ERA whining, dude nails it on every front
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
“It is not what he has, or even what he does which expresses the worth of a man, but what he is.” –Henri-Frédéric Amiel
"Toxic masculinity" is a joke of a term made up by the regressive left to emasculate men to push a very specific, very narrow view of what men should be. Norman Mailer said it near perfect: “Because there is very little honor left in American life, there is a certain built-in tendency to destroy masculinity in American men.”
You and the rest of the regressive left ideologues seem to project your own personal issues with yourselves onto other men and then denigrate those who act in any way, shape, or form differently than you. David Gilmore once wrote that, “There is a constantly reoccurring notion that real manhood is different from simple anatomical maleness, that it is not a natural condition that comes about spontaneously through biological maturation but rather is a precarious or artificial state that boys must win against powerful odds. This recurrent notion that manhood is problematic, a critical threshold that boys must pass through testing, is found at all levels of sociocultural development regardless of what other alternative roles are recognized.” This can be seen right here, right now in this thread and through social media such as Gillette's recent advertisement debacle. The simple fact of the matter is that the continued "reinvention of manliness/masculinity" is unneeded, unfounded in any sort of scientifical realm. Look through history and see the difference between yourself and the men of the past. Whether it b e Theodore Roosevelt, Confucious, or Plato:
“We do not admire the man of timid peace. We admire the man who embodies victorious effort; the man who never wrongs his neighbor, who is prompt to help a friend, but who has those virile qualities necessary to win in the stern strife of actual life.” –Theodore Roosevelt
“The way of a superior man is three-fold: virtuous, he is free from anxieties; wise, he is free from perplexities; bold, he is free from fear.” –Confucius
“For the man who makes everything that leads to happiness, or near to it, to depend upon himself, and not upon other men … has adopted the very best plan for living happily. This is the man of moderation; this is the man of manly character and of wisdom.” –Plato
*That* is what it means to be a man. Having control of one's emotional state, helping others when needed, being a leader, standing strong for what you believe in and being of sound character and person where he does not need to be held up by others.
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Acerac
Banned
I'm legitimately shocked that thread wasnt locked.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
They've been better about not locking threads that are critical of the community as long as they aren't attacking specific members, mods etc.
There was this long thread last month about all the negativity their lately that stayed up and hit 14 pages before discussion died down.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/whats-with-all-of-the-negativity-lately.88334/
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Both of these threads never got closed.
I think it’s more the owners are worried about losing subscriptions and ad views as the community gets sick of the negativity, hostility and dog piling of the minority of extremist views.
I never thought the leaders of the site cared about the “safe space” stuff as much as some mods do and just pounced on the opportunity to start a new site and get tens of thousands of members to jump ship from here due to the scandal. And then monetize them with ads and subscriptions to remove ads.
I imagine there’s some tension between those making the money and the activist mods/members driving tons of banning which drive down ad views and subscriptions. It will be interesting to see how that plays out over time. They’re probably hoping Trump loses in 2020 and things calm down some.
Mochilador
Member
Yeah, pretty much nailed it.
Ellis
Member
kbear
Member
Crying used to be manly and pious until that frigid shit British Empire took over everything.
The Elite
BOSS
Page 9 (100 posts a page) of that thread is a fun read.
kbear
Member
You’re just a big tough fancy guy aren’t ya?
Grinchy
Banned
He's a guy with a broken calculator because there are only 10 pages at 50 per page.
The Elite
BOSS
I don't know why people are troubled by this post. None of these things are inherently feminine besides the last name thing, and that's only due to years of custom based on patriarchy.
Redneckerz
Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Little bit more context from memory: NoMoreTrolls actually was banned last year for making a similar post, or so i remember rather vividly.
If they would, it would cause an outrage against self.
There are other users do who have made similar, albeit less summarized statements, and not much was done with that aswell. But at the same time staff does get extra picky on pretentious reasonings like transphobia. Crappy rhetorical excuses to ban users.
Its an interesting development, to say the least.
Ellis
Member
Willing to put money on it that shortly after that thread has been closed, he will be banned for that post.
Too obvious to do it whilst the thread is still active.
RedVIper
Banned
I think you're also dismissing evolutionary traits that have developed over millions of years. There's a reason virtually every society can agree on what are masculine traits and what are feminine traits, they exist. Now it's fine if people want to brake societal norms and be different, but to paint masculinity as inherently toxic is harmful, there's plenty of female traits that could be considered toxic, but no one paints femininity as a whole toxic, you point specific behavior and hold the ones that exhibit it accountable, not half the world population.
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Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Redneckerz
Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
At the very least he is now marked and stuff like this will play a part later on when he gets banned for something else.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Who says it will get closed? The negativity thread from December I linked to is still open and had the same type of comments in it. I don't think it generated any bans either (at least that I can recall from then and I spent a lot of time in it).
They don't seem to mind criticism of the site too much unless it's things like bashing them for banning people for things like "dismissing transphobia/sexism/racism" that go against the safe space mantra the site has (and is listed in their FAQ with site rules).
I'm sure the mods/admins hate most of the anger/negativity as it generates a ton of fighting and work for them. They don't mind the bashing of whoever said something they see as bigoted, but the general anger/negativity/hostility that permeates the forum has to suck for mods and admins. It's bad everywhere on the internet anymore, but that place is extreme on those fronts.
Ellis
Member
I was perma banned for criticising the site re-design a few times. I had no prior warning or bans.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
I think I remember seeing that (not sure if it was you or someone else).
My thought on that was a perm was way too harsh, but I could see a short suspension as the person I'm thinking of was being pretty hostile about it and kind of a broken record with the same complaints in a few threads (not that I can talk about being a broke record as much as I drone on about the things I hate about forums today!).
Ellis
Member
I did go on a bit, but that ban was too harsh. They turn a blind eye to cunts that defend beating their own children, but ban some dumb schmuck for moaning a bit about the new layout.
I'm glad though now. Opened my eyes even more to just how fucked the place is.
GAF Classic Light Theme >>>>>>>>> everything else
I'm glad though now. Opened my eyes even more to just how fucked the place is.
GAF Classic Light Theme
>>>>>>>>> everything else
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Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
I agree, though it also is not specifically masculine. It is just something humans (of both sexes) may do.
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
You know, for someone who goes on and on (and on and on) about being over it and having better things to do and (paraphrasing): “I’m going to be spending waaaay less time on the internet, I’m over forums, you won’t see me much ‘round here no more”, you sure do pop up on the regular to dispel negative (truthful) comments about resetera. You’re “nothing to see here” posts stand out like dog’s balls.
Just an observation, carry on.
The Elite
BOSS
Pretty much. It's also stuff that some may seem as weak in men. That's what the poster was getting at.
captainraincoat
Banned
Most of those points men of today would adopt in their own way but calling someone out as being toxic because they have a differing view on these is pretty harsh as some of these qualities are leaning towards the feminine side of the fence.
I’m not sure what your childhood was like but my childhood kids who played with dolls and dressed in pink usually ended up gay...which there is nothing wrong with.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
To be fair, a majority of my posting over there the past month has been bitching about the negativity and hostility the the threads linked above.
My problem is I've been on forums 25+ years and have had little fun and gotten little out of them the past 5+ years after loving them for the most part for the better part of two decades. The problem is probably partly just that society and the internet have gotten more negative, angry, jaded and hostile and partly just that I'm older and most people my age or older quit forums long ago so I'm left bickering with teens and twenty to early 30 somethings I mostly don't enjoy engaging with in real life either.
In any case, my bitching and clinging to the past is pathetic and it's time for me to really cut back. This site needs cut as there's just pretty much no content here that I enjoy so I just end up checking this thread. Era I just need to never go to Etcetera, check the gaming first couple of pages for news once a day and otherwise just book mark my watched threads list which is just OTs/communty threads for games I'm playing News and those threads were all that was worthwhile on GAF before and on Era now.
I've failed at stopping posting here for a more than a month or two a couple times, so I'll request a ban this time and you guys can poke fun at Era in peace.
captainraincoat
Banned
Men are genetically wired to do dumb and stupid shit..no escaping evolution
Which is why I love my mrs as she is my perfect counter weight to balance me out
Now excuse me I have to go
Which is why I love my mrs as she is my perfect counter weight to balance me out
Now excuse me I have to go
Tesseract
Banned
Men are genetically wired to do dumb and stupid shit..no escaping evolution
Which is why I love my mrs as she is my perfect counter weight to balance me out
Now excuse me I have to go
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
Sorry to see you go, mate - but honestly a lot of the issue is on you. I don't think forums have become more jaded, negative, or angry in general - you just became lazy and entitled. Nearly 80% of your posts since the schism has been either you defending ResetEra or whining that forums are too political (and you failing to see the irony in that). When requested to actually help make this forum less political and one you would enjoy given your preferences, you refused. You didn't want to put forth any effort to see the change you wanted and expected everyone else to conform to your whims.
Oh well, all is in the past. Enjoy your break.
Which Dumb/Dumber film is that? the first?
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
I doubt he is going anywhere. He has repeated the same monologue ad nauseum and he’s still here. Just seems like some weird attention seeking mixed with the resetera defence force.
He gets one thing right though, there is better ways to spend your time.
Papa
Banned
damn killer
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