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[Crimsonclaw111]

Generations is optimized fairly well on GPU usage (it's very low), it's just that the engine is very reliant on CPU usage and it's got some cache bugs that don't completely clean the terrain loaded into memory (i.e. stuff will start having more pop-in after subsequent playthroughs of stages). If you have a fairly powerful CPU you can overpower those issues easily.

You don't need to worry about that developer anymore anyway.

Well that's sort of depressing.

My CPU is an i5 3570k, idk why it would struggle.

 

[BPoole]

It's strange how Sega picks and choses which games to being to PC. We obviously egt all the stuff from Creative Assembly, and a lot of the Sonic games, but then we get more obscure stuff like Binary Domain.

Several character action games have come to PC the past few years (DMC3/4, DmC reboot, MGR, Castlevania:LoS1/2, Enslaved), and it would make so much sense for Sega to at least bring over Bayonetta and Vanquish.

I don't know how Valkyria Chronicles would work since it was a PS3 exclusive and I'm not sure if Sony holds the rights to that.

 

[Dario ff]

My CPU is an i5 3570k, idk why it would struggle.

It really shouldn't, I have an i5 2500k OC @ 4.4 GHZ tho. Either that or I don't mind/notice the frame drops as much. Chemical Plant is just bugged tho, I wouldn't fret too much over it. I would try playing on SSD/Fast HDD just in case since it's very reliant on HDD access.

 

[Zarx]

can't see Sega putting more resources into Bayonetta since they gave up on the franchise and let Nintendo take over. Porting is still an investment, and they will not benefit significantly from expanding the fan-base.

We are talking about the company that ported this steaming pile of mediocrity 4 years after release despite having no plans for a sequel.

All the games talked about in this thread are cult favorites with a built in fanbase, and generally well regarded. So I don't think that is really a concern for them.

 

[TaroYamada]

We are talking about the company that ported this steaming pile of mediocrity 4 years after release despite having no plans for a sequel.

All the games talked about in this thread are cult favorites with a built in fanbase, and generally well regarded. So I don't think that is really a concern for them.

IIRC it had a partially completed PC version, the development team (Hardlight, who made that Sonic runner on mobile) claimed that after starting the studio up they had some spare money in their budget from SEGA and they chose to spend it on a port of that game.

 

[dtg]

I'm almost buying a PS3 just to play a few Sega games. If Valkaryie Chronicles, VF5FS, Vanquish and Bayonetta were on PC I'd save a nice chunk of change. Day one buys (assuming solid ports) for each.

 

[CertifiedFP]

What's to say we can't jumpstart this again when the timing becomes better?

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

It really shouldn't, I have an i5 2500k OC @ 4.4 GHZ tho. Either that or I don't mind/notice the frame drops as much. Chemical Plant is just bugged tho, I wouldn't fret too much over it. I would try playing on SSD/Fast HDD just in case since it's very reliant on HDD access.

Eh, I'm far too lazy to move it to my SSD. It's been beaten anyway

 

[Grief.exe]

It could be for a lot of reasons, maybe even just lack of interest, but it didn't help that it started during a weekend, when no gaming site had even a chance to pick the story and publish a news about it.

I'm thinking about waiting until tomorrow to try to get this put up on reddit. Get more eyes on the issue and possibly some media attention.

 

[Poetic.Injustice]

Sega generally has most of their western games ported to PC, You just can't say that for their Japanese output.

 

[Nillansan]

I'm thinking about waiting until tomorrow to try to get this put up on reddit. Get more eyes on the issue and possibly some media attention.

Wouldn't it be better to push for media attention until after the 1st of January? Most outlets seem to be in holiday mode.

Edit: I also want to thank you for putting this in motion, Grief.

 

[Grief.exe]

Wouldn't it be better to push for media attention until after the 1st of January? Most outlets seem to be in holiday mode.

Edit: I also want to thank you for putting this in motion, Grief.

Genius.

 

[mullet2000]

I'm thinking about waiting until tomorrow to try to get this put up on reddit. Get more eyes on the issue and possibly some media attention.

I know I'm just one dude, and it's my opinion in a thousand others, but I really think framing it as "We want PC ports from Sega, starting with Bayonetta/Vanquish", or just starting with Bayonetta/Vanquish themselves, and adding in @platinumgames to @sega for now would be a good idea. Trying to ask for everything at once is the road to being ignored because it'll be perceived as too much of a risk by Sega.

Ultimately it's your post and you can do what you want with it. Who am I to tell you what to do. I just don't want to see the whole thing fall flat on its face before it has the chance to start (because I really want these games on PC too!). Either Bayonetta or Vanquish (or both) being out there and doing well, alongside Metal Gear Rising doing well on preorders (because it's a similar type of game, and a platinum game), is a much, much more convincing argument to a publisher than asking for a sweeping "We want PC ports" that covers half a dozen games before they have a test bed.

I'm not saying whether that fair or not, or that's ideal for us as gamers, I'm just saying be careful not to be dismissed as just another port-beg or as "whining," which could unfairly happen if you try to ask Sega to bite off more than they think they can chew. Patience can lead to a lot of stuff coming in the long run, but being too hasty can lead to nothing coming.

 

[GoodCoffeeJoey]

I'd kill for a Vanquish port.

 

[nbnt]

I did my part.. For Vanquish, that game deserves a higher res than 1024x720. And I want Vanquish 2.

 

[Grief.exe]

I know I'm just one dude, and it's my opinion in a thousand others, but I really think framing it as "We want PC ports from Sega, starting with Bayonetta/Vanquish", or just starting with Bayonetta/Vanquish themselves, and adding in @platinumgames to @sega for now would be a good idea. Trying to ask for everything at once is the road to being ignored because it'll be perceived as too much of a risk by Sega.

Ultimately it's your post and you can do what you want with it. Who am I to tell you what to do. I just don't want to see the whole thing fall flat on its face before it has the chance to start (because I really want these games on PC too!). Either Bayonetta or Vanquish (or both) being out there and doing well, alongside Metal Gear Rising doing well on preorders (because it's a similar type of game, and a platinum game), is a much, much more convincing argument to a publisher than asking for a sweeping "We want PC ports" that covers half a dozen games before they have a test bed.

I'm not saying whether that fair or not, or that's ideal for us as gamers, I'm just saying be careful not to be dismissed as just another port-beg or as "whining," which could unfairly happen if you try to ask Sega to bite off more than they think they can chew. Patience can lead to a lot of stuff coming in the long run, but being too hasty can lead to nothing coming.

Its want to stress that this isn't my campaign, but everyone's. We need to work together to make this happen.

I do agree, I believe Bayonetta and Vanquish have the best chance of success and the easiest path for porting. Valkyria Chronicles has the highest potential for success on the platform and should really be included in the campaign.

Up to this point I have structured the campaign so as to alienate as few people as possible, show Sega there is large demand and let them sort out the best business move for themselves.

 

[Crownjo]

Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown.

 

[Ushiwaka]

can't see Sega putting more resources into Bayonetta since they gave up on the franchise and let Nintendo take over. Porting is still an investment, and they will not benefit significantly from expanding the fan-base.

Sega already put more resources into Bayonetta. They funded a Bayonetta anime movie. I'm pretty sure a PC port of Bayonetta costs much less than an anime movie.

 

[Hypron]

Bayonetta and Vanquish on PC would be.. .SO FUCKING GOOD. Especially Vanquish. Gggngng

 

[Lime]

Alan Wake PC took the third party developer Remedy handed over the task 5 months to do. http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/16/sleep-talking-alan-wake-interview/

The core PC porting team was 5 people: http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/alan-wake_/credits



QA was 3 people:



And 3 Remedy dudes were overseeing the work done by the third party (while working full time on American Nightmare for XBLA themselves).

A more relevant example perhaps, Sega's Binary Domain PC port outsourced to Devil's Details was done by 5 people. http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/binary-domain/credits

And QA was: 1 + 7 people.

Sonic Generations PC port again outsourced to Devil's Details was 8 people and 1+1 testers. http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/sonic-generations/credits

Edit yeah I know about the frame drops in the Chemical Zone..

One last one: http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/darksiders/credits

Darksiders "core" PC porting team was 1 lead + 3 programmers.

3 designers, 2 additional programmers, 2 UI artists and 2 QA testers make the rest of the team.

But of course for example the UI artists (making the updated menu for the PC version and new button icons) wouldn't work full time on it for months, like the programmers.

From what I can see the core programming team of PC ports is ~5 people and another ~5-10 people do supplementary tasks (eg new menu, etc).

So, on average, how much would people say that a PC port of a game would cost? 6 months of time with 5-10 people working on it isn't that much, I could imagine.

 

[JaseC]

So, on average, how much would people say that a PC port of a game would cost? 6 months of time with 5-10 people working on it isn't that much, I could imagine.

No more than half a million or so would be my guess.

 

[angular graphics]

So, on average, how much would people say that a PC port of a game would cost? 6 months of time with 5-10 people working on it isn't that much, I could imagine.

Some incredibly crude calculations:

Core programming team: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_programmer#Salary

Lead programmer average salary: $127,900
+
5 x programmers average salary: 5 x $72,000
---------------------------------------------------------------
$487,900 for a year's work, so about $243,950 for 6 months work. Let's round it up to $250K.

Now for the rest of the team:

As I said the QA guys, or the artists making kb/mouse button art do not work on this straight for 6 months like the programmers do, but what the hell, let's double that $250K to include these guys and make it $500K.

And before one argues that a port might take more than 6 months, what the hell, let's double it again, and say the total cost is $1M. And that is with a lot of "what the hell, let's exaggerate" concessions. Half of that ($500K) is probably the more accurate answer and that might be only for the most expensive ports.

And that is with US salaries. Port houses like QLOC, being Polish, are likely used at considerably lower salaries, making the cost of porting a game by them considerably lower.

And a specific example:

Revengeance is selling for $24, 70% of which goes to Konami: so $16.8.

If the port's cost was $500K - $1M, then they need to sell 30K - 60K copies to break even, and that is with the special, lowered, preorder price, soon to change.

Meanwhile a $20 game like Antichamber, far fewer people have heard off compared to a game called "Metal Gear", sells over 100K copies in less than two months. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-03-20-antichamber-has-sold-over-100-000-copies-in-seven-weeks
http://www.steamprices.com/us/app/219890/antichamber

 

[Nillansan]

Alan Wake PC took the third party developer Remedy handed over the task 5 months to do. http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/16/sleep-talking-alan-wake-interview/

The core PC porting team was 5 people: http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/alan-wake_/credits

QA was 3 people:

And 3 Remedy dudes were overseeing the work done by the third party (while working full time on American Nightmare for XBLA themselves).

Also as a little side note, Remedy recouped the porting and marketing costs in 48 hours.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Also as a little side note, Remedy recouped the porting and marketing costs in 48 hours.

This is what I don't understand from Big Developers.
Both Alan Wake and Dark Souls showed that ports even late can recoup cost's quickly.
Guarantee we'll be hearing something from Konami after MGR releases. Hell I know they were please with Castlevania Sales. More Devs need to take the plunge.

 

[angular graphics]

This is what I don't understand from Big Developers.
Both Alan Wake and Dark Souls showed that ports even late can recoup cost's quickly.
Guarantee we'll be hearing something from Konami after MGR releases. Hell I know they were please with Castlevania Sales. More Devs need to take the plunge.

Sometimes the devs have already started work on the next game and they don't have any spare people to work on a port of their old one(s). I can understand that.

And that is where porting houses like QLOC make a lot of sense..

 

[robin2]

Meanwhile a $20 game like Antichamber, far fewer people have heard off compared to a game called "Metal Gear", sells over 100K copies in less than two months. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-03-20-antichamber-has-sold-over-100-000-copies-in-seven-weeks
http://www.steamprices.com/us/app/219890/antichamber

Yes. The data and the outcome of the past conversions we've had, speaks clearly: it's pretty much foregone that these games would do positively if converted. And we all agree on that.

Problem is that big publishers aren't interested in "do positively", even when it's guaranteed; the "potential for a smash hit" is needed for them to bother. "Safe 5x return on investment" isn't interesting; "chance of a 50+x return" is what they covet.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Sometimes the devs have already started work on the next game and they don't have any spare people to work on a port of their old one(s). I can understand that.

And that is where porting houses like QLOC make a lot of sense..

Yeah that is understandable.
But as you said porting houses make a lot of sense for the Publishers as well.
Apparently Climax UK did Castlevania for Konami and that's one of the best PC ports of this year from console. Would be interesting to see if porting houses started becoming more and more prevalent. Seems there's plenty of people who would work on such things to push them out for other companies.

 

[angular graphics]

Yes. The data and the outcome of the past conversions we've had, speaks clearly: it's pretty much foregone that these games would do positively if converted. And we all agree on that.

Problem is that big publishers aren't interested in "do positively", even when it's guaranteed; the "potential for a smash hit" is needed for them to bother. "Safe 5x return on investment" isn't interesting; "chance of a 50+x return" is what they covet.

True. But also not very relevant. Why?

-->

The vast majority of AAAA..AA games from big Western publishers already have PC ports. And more often than not they are released the same day as the console versions. Despite not necessarily bringing $$$$$$$$$$$ western publishers can afford them and appreciate them.

On the other hand we are mostly talking in this thread about Japanese games that are already a bit of a niche, eg Bayonetta. Or Resonance of Fate, it wasn't exactly a success. http://segabits.com/blog/2010/04/16/npd-both-resonance-of-fate-yakuza-3-fail-to-chart/

These games can sell quite a bit over the years on Steam.

Ironically, you see, the games that depend the least on having a PC version, already do!
And the games that it would help the most to have a PC version, they don't!

Madness!

 

[MrCunningham]

I haven't read this thread. But who knows? If Metal Gear Rising does well enough on Steam, maybe Platinum would consider Bayonetta or some of titles, for PC?

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I haven't read this thread. But who knows? If Metal Gear Rising does well enough on Steam, maybe Platinum would consider Bayonetta or some of titles, for PC?

The problem is that the ball is in Sega court. The IP belongs to them and only them can pay PG to do the ports.

Sega as others Japanese companies, have been extremely incosistent with their PC ports. So who knows at this point.

 

[Durante]

Ironically, you see, the games that depend the least on having a PC version, already do!
And the games that it would help the most to have a PC version, they don't!

Madness!

Yeah, I've also noticed this pattern with some Japanese games.

 

[Sentenza]

Some incredibly crude calculations:

CUT

And before one argues that a port might take more than 6 months, what the hell, let's double it again, and say the total cost is $1M. And that is with a lot of "what the hell, let's exaggerate" concessions. Half of that ($500K) is probably the more accurate answer and that might be only for the most expensive ports.

And that is with US salaries. Port houses like QLOC, being Polish, are likely used at considerably lower salaries, making the cost of porting a game by them considerably lower.

Good post, and I think this bolded part should be stressed.
Your rough calculation makes some *heavy* concession to these costs and takes high profile ports as reference.
In reality I would guess the average cost for a port is substantially lower than that and stories I heard from people working in the industry seem to confirm that.

Just for the sake of comparison, and as additional reference, let's just point that an average port from Windows-to-Linux is even simpler and it's often handled by a single programmer or two, across one-to-three months.

Still, even taking these (probably) inflated numbers as reference, you can see that breaking even is something pretty easy for anything that isn't a massive failure.

 

[robin2]

Argument & Madness!

I ultimately always agreed with you: it's seemingly absurd that all these games wholly dismiss the existence of the PC market, they could literally live a little second life on PC.

I'm just trying to decipher the rationale behind this. What you say is correct, these games aren't even "smash hits wannabe".. but they've basically been dropped by the publisher now, right? (VC has been "sent to death" on PSP, Vanquish won't ever get a sequel, and Bayonetta 2 happening AFAIK was quite surprising). There's also the choice of cancelling Obsidian's Alien RPG and going with the run of the mill Colonial Marines. I don't follow SEGA, but maybe now it has assimilated to the standard AAA "multi-millions or nothing" mentality? If it's not the case then it's just "Japanese companies market shortsightedness"?

 

[wildfire]

on



I will probably die if I ever see the sega logo on the gog front page. They already sell DRM free games on dot emu.

I wondered if there was another place besides GoG and a quick glance says they do have different games besides Sega. Thanks for the tip!

 

[MrCunningham]

The problem is that the ball is in Sega court. The IP belongs to them and only them can pay PG to do the ports.

Sega as others Japanese companies, have been extremely incosistent with their PC ports. So who knows at this point.

Yeah, I realize that Sega owns the rights. But I was pointing out that if another Platinum game gets a good reception on Steam, maybe they would consider the idea of working with them again on porting Bayonetta to PC? It might be something that both parties could agree on?

I would love to see OutRun 2006 get a re release on Steam again... but without the Ferrari license, it probably wouldn't happen. ;(

 

[angular graphics]

Yeah, I realize that Sega owns the rights. But I was pointing out that if another Platinum game gets a good reception on Steam, maybe they would consider the idea of working with them again on porting Bayonetta to PC? It might be something that both parties could agree on?

I would love to see OutRun 2006 get a re release on Steam again... but without the Ferrari license, it probably wouldn't happen. ;(

That's the main idea of this thread

 

[Saintguine]

As much as I definitely would like to see Bayonetta and Vanquish on PC, I have serious doubts that there ever will be a port.

My guess would be to make the PC release of Metal Gear Rising a success and bother Inaba and SEGA about it.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Yeah, I realize that Sega owns the rights. But I was pointing out that if another Platinum game gets a good reception on Steam, maybe they would consider the idea of working with them again on porting Bayonetta to PC? It might be something that both parties could agree on?

I would love to see OutRun 2006 get a re release on Steam again... but without the Ferrari license, it probably wouldn't happen. ;(

Since you only mentioned PG, I though you meant it depended of them. Yeah, Rising doing good may open some doors. I hope this works too, but Japanese companies have been so wierd with their PC support. Namco releases Naruto games but no Tekken? Capcom basically ports everything to PC but somehow they left Dragon's Dogma aside? And many others. Sometimes it just bizarre.

I hope that Sega embraces fully the PC. I would love Outrun 2006 since I don't hook up my 360 anymore.

 

[Sentenza]

Why people want Outrun 2006 back so much?
I have it in my Steam library, I bought it years ago, and it's not exactly stellar...

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Why people want Outrun 2006 back so much?
I have it in my Steam library, I bought it years ago, and it's not exactly stellar...

You mean the port?

I think the game is truly great: Great music, beautiful varied enviroments and great controls. With so many gritty arcade racers it would be nice to have a "BLUE SKIES" Arcade racing game on Steam.

 

[MrCunningham]

Since you only mentioned PG, I though you meant it depended of them. Yeah, Rising doing good may open some doors. I hope this works too, but Japanese companies have been so wierd with their PC support. Namco releases Naruto games but no Tekken? Capcom basically ports everything to PC but somehow they left Dragon's Dogma aside? And many others. Sometimes it just bizarre.

I hope that Sega embraces fully the PC. I would love Outrun 2006 since I don't hook up my 360 anymore.

I think it comes down to what internal and external developers these Japanese companies are working with.

Sega already has purchased quite a few PC centric western developers, all of these studios have been paying off in a big way for Sega. Sports Interactive's Football Manager series has been a serious money maker for Sega, if you look at the Steam top sellers for the last few months, you can see that it has been floating around the top 10 on a regular basis. The Creative Assembly and Relic have also been delivering bit profits for Sega as well. Sonic Racing Transformed and House of the Dead Overkill are two other Sega western made games ported by western studios. I think a lot of what they have ported so far to the PC have been handled by western studios. But then again,Sega has been playing around with PC development for a long time now going all the way back to the 90's. Anyone remember SegaSoft?

From what I understand a lot of Capcom's PC ports are handled by European teams as well. Though who knows why Dragons Dogma hasn't received a port?

As for Namco, it probably depends on the studio's/ teams they are working with. Dark Souls saw a release on PC, most likely because they thought it could capture some of that Skyrim money. Yeah, granted, it's a different game from Skyrim, but I have seen people mistake it for Skyrim just by looking at it from a glance. But the game itself has sold really well for them on PC as From Software is making the PC port for the sequel a much higher priority. The Ridge Racer game on Steam was made by a Western dev, So they probably felt this was a platform where it would find an extended audience. Pac-Man CE started out as an exclusive for the Windows 8 app store, obviously they pushed it over to Steam to get more exposure.

I think to summarize, a lot of the big Japanese publishers don't bother with porting their own games to PC internally and just outsource a lot of them to western studios. Though some of the more independent Japanese developers have been warming up to the idea of releasing their games on PC. I am heavily looking forward to Ikaruga, personally. .

You mean the port?

I still have a boxed copy of OutRun 2 Coast 2 Coast, and it has been one of my favorite arcade racers for years now.

 

[Grief.exe]

Great discussion going on this morning.

 

[amdnv]

Problem is that big publishers aren't interested in "do positively", even when it's guaranteed; the "potential for a smash hit" is needed for them to bother. "Safe 5x return on investment" isn't interesting; "chance of a 50+x return" is what they covet.

You would have a point if significant internal resources were needed to do the port. These resources could be spent developing the next smash hit instead.
But when a portation is outsourced to an external studio it does not eat up any resources, apart from some handholding that may need to be done to guide the contracting studio.

 

[Grief.exe]

Why people want Outrun 2006 back so much?
I have it in my Steam library, I bought it years ago, and it's not exactly stellar...

People want what they can't have.

 

[Krusenstern]

If the MGR port sells well we need to point that out to them and do another push, bothering Platinum and Sega day after day to release more PC ports. If necessary we spam Kamiya's twitter until he loses his shit again.

I want Bayo and Vanquish SEGA, and I want them before I grow a grey beard!

 

[Sentenza]

If the MGR port sells well we need to point that out to them and do another push, bothering Platinum and Sega day after day to release more PC ports. If necessary we spam Kamiya's twitter until he loses his shit again.

I guess you're mostly joking, but on a serious note I don't think that would be a very productive strategy.

 

[Grief.exe]

I want Bayo and Vanquish SEGA, and I want them before I grow a grey beard!

After finding out about Valkyria Chronicled I am more interested in that title, but I would buy and play all three instantly.

 

[Sinatar]

Yea Valkyria Chronicles is the big one, it would appeal to the PC crowd the most as well being a strategy game and all.

I've actually played all 4 of the games in the OP, I'd rank them:

1. VC
2. Bayo
3. Vanquish
4. Resonance of Fate

RoF is kinda... not good though, no big loss if they skip that.

 

[Grief.exe]

RoF is kinda... not good though, no big loss if they skip that.

I highly doubt that one will get a support, though it might be pretty successful considering how JRPG starved we are.

A very niche game like RoF or Nier would find significant success on PC since they wouldn't get swept under the rug like they do on consoles.

 

[ArjanN]

People want what they can't have.

No. It's just a very basic port, but the game itself is actually really good even if it might not seem like it at first.