Medium actually.
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PS4 PRO: for best IQ (Native 4k + HDR + 60 HZ + 4:4:4) 2160p-YUV420 or 2160p-RGB?
- Thread starter PLASTICA-MAN
- Start date
Medium actually.
Samsung JU6400, using PC mode as my output
it doesn't seem like changing the RGB setting does anything at 4K, but they work again if i change the resolution to 1080. so i guess i'm locked in at RGB Limited?
TV doesn't support HDR btw
Make sure you have:
1.) latest firmware, check online. You may need to update via USB stick.
2.) HDMI UHD Color enabled. This is typically burned in settings and not all ports will have this option.
3.) The HDMI port must support HDMI 2.0 for 2160p 60Hz RGB 4:4:4
4.) Come to a Tribe show and watch the three kids rip
It's supposed to be turned off. HDR is meant to be viewed in a dark room.
latest firmware is installed. i don't have a UHD Color option anywhere; i don't think Samsung updated the US version to support HDR.
every spec sheet i've looked at for my TV says all of the inputs support HDMI 2.0 though, not sure what's going on there.
and yeah, represent represent
looks like 2160p 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 is not a supported resolution. sorry. Maybe just choose auto and you should still get 10-bit 4:2:0 in limited.
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/ju6400
Rtings has the info. 4K RGB 4:4:4 only available at 30 Hz for "PC" input. So thats not compatible with Pro output 60 Hz.
Samsung's out here lying lol.
ah well, the resolution difference is still massive and the banding isn't really that bad. like i said it seems like the resolution increase just amplifies it a bit.
Same TV, same question.
byron_hinson
Member
For those who want to see banding again. Try The Witness HDR update. Once again it's 4:2:2 causing it and looking like it's outputting 8 bit colour. Change to 4:2:0 and it's fixed. But you shouldn't have to keep switching resolutions on a console.
DJ Lushious
Member
What TV do you have?
Futurevoid
Member
f@luS
More than a member.
thats what i though as well but after some research and jstevenson advice here few days ago it looks like it has to be normal for hdr as well
Futurevoid
Member
That doesn't make sense but ....ok. I'll give it a test later tonight.
...and I was right it seems:
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=516410&page=384
jstevenson reponds back after Genejin posted about the need for wide for HDR use on that page. Though I'll still test tonight. I'm having my set professionally calibrated in mid-December so I'll definitely post some settings impressions.
Basically, the YUV format has been created because bandwidth was limited in the mid-XX th century. It's based on the idea that eyes are sharper with intensity than with color. So instead of transmitting all three colors (R, G and B), they transmit luminosity (Y) and colors (U and V, which are roughly the difference between green and red intensity, and green and blue intensity).
This way, you can transmit the luminosity Y at full resolution, and use trick to compress the color information (U and V). NTSC, PAL and SECAM are different take on the color compression for analog signals. The other advantages are easier handling of black & white TV sets (they only need Y) and easier image adjustment (luminosity act on Y, saturation and color on U/V).
YUV is also used on digital media since you can compress U and V without loosing too much information.
420 means you have half the vertical and horizontal resolution for chroma. If the image is 1920x1080, the luminance will be 1920x1080 but the colors will be transmitted as a 960x540 image.
422 means you have half the horizontal resolution, but full vertical resolution. If the image is 1920x1080, the colors will be transmitted as a 960x1080 image.
444 gives you full resolution for color.
So by using 420, you loose some color resolution. The difference in quality depends on your TV set, since it has to upscale the color image. It can produce slightly colored fringes around white objects on black background, for example. It's not that obvious, though.
Also, by using YUV, even with 444, you loose some color information. That's because not all YUV values are "correct", so the ratio data/bit is lower. All RGB > YUV and YUV > RGB conversions are lossy.
So by using YUV 420 you'll lose some resolution (for color) and have slightly altered colors.
byron_hinson
Member
Samsung JS9000
Wow very awesome read.
I just keep reading reports that when auto only switches to 422 for hdr im only getting 8 bit and not the 10 bit i need.
Its crazy to me bc i get an insanely good image, and switching abck and forth between auto and y20 i see zero difference,
But i cant ignore what people are saying and will simply manually switch from auto to y20 anytime i use hdr.
Its just a pita. Also sometimes auto DOES switch to y20 in the same damn games which just adds to my confusion
This is accurate.
That being said, HDR material from game with auto will net YUV420 and YUV422 to displays with a proper EDID at 10 or even 12 bits. Also, RGB 4:4:4 is not supported for HDR currently.
You are insanely confused. Keeping in auto will net you 2160p RGB 4:4:4 full on all non-HDR games at 8-bit. As soon as you boot up an HDR game, you will get YUV420 or 422, depending on the game.
I seriously doubt the KS8000 has an EDID handshake issue. You are likely getting 10-bit 420 or 422.
You should be. Test it and see. I've been testing this and 422 only gives 8-bit. Using my PC I can select higher bit depths at 422 but the PS4 only does 8. No idea why.
422 seems to give the exact same picture quality as auto.
I don't know how to check how many bits I'm getting. If anyone can tell me how I will check what 422 gives me.
My receiver shows this information but I also see banding in some HDR games (depending on how it's used).
Yeah I don't have a reciever which is where I'm sol on knowing what's happening.
So I guess I'm back to switching between auto insurance y20 until this is concrete.
I'm on samsung ks8000 if that helps. I imagine you are on an oled tv tho.
Audioboxer
Member
I run my PS4 via full RGB, so will run Pro that way as well (yes TV supports it). From my quick glance through this topic I'm best just to leave resolution to auto? Currently I've selected the 4K RGB option.
Actually, now that I think about it, if you're plugging right into the TV you might be OK.
I just thought to test that by eliminating the receiver from the chain and 422 mode does seem to display at a higher color depth.
...which is odd since I CAN actually display 422 10-bit through the receiver when using my PC and it looks correct. Perhaps the Pro is detecting something incorrectly?
The source of the confusion might be centered on that, actually. It seems that, in many cases, the automatic setting might result in banding for users but not necessarily always.
DJ Lushious
Member
What receiver do you have?
Ok so it sounds like maybe it's the receiver messing things up?
First time I've been glad to be using an optical logitech pc surround lol.
Because I've probably spent 2 hours switching back and forth between auto and y20 to see zero difference.
That and the fact that auto looks completely outstanding leads me to believe it is the receivers doing this.
First time I've been glad to be using an optical logitech pc surround lol.
Because I've probably spent 2 hours switching back and forth between auto and y20 to see zero difference.
That and the fact that auto looks completely outstanding leads me to believe it is the receivers doing this.
JaguarCROW
Member
I have a Denon X6200 and PS4 Pro.
I continue to get constant disconnect and reconnects when connecting up the PS4 pro to my receiver. I have tried both with HDCP 2.2 disabled and in alternative output modes (Automatic, 4K YUV420 , 4K RGB, and even 1080p) and I still continue to get very frequent disconnects.
This is running System Software 4.06 and the latest firmware on my Denon X6200W. If I connect up the PS4 Pro directly to my LG TV I don't get the issues, but they I lose the 7.1 Surround Audio that my receiver provides.
Anyone else have a similar setup and having any luck?
I continue to get constant disconnect and reconnects when connecting up the PS4 pro to my receiver. I have tried both with HDCP 2.2 disabled and in alternative output modes (Automatic, 4K YUV420 , 4K RGB, and even 1080p) and I still continue to get very frequent disconnects.
This is running System Software 4.06 and the latest firmware on my Denon X6200W. If I connect up the PS4 Pro directly to my LG TV I don't get the issues, but they I lose the 7.1 Surround Audio that my receiver provides.
Anyone else have a similar setup and having any luck?
JaguarCROW
Member
Note I also have a the Samsung UHD Blu-Ray player connected to the receiver which I have played numerous HDCP 2.2 required UHD Blu-Rays through with no issues. I am really suspecting the System Software in the PS4 has significant HDMI hand-shaking issues. (Note I don't even need to connect a TV to the chain to get the current connection issues)
As noted, I'm using an X3200w and it works fine with the Pro outside of the aforementioned 422 issue. No disconnects.
Have you tried swapping cables around? Trying different cables entirely?
Kamina
Golden Boy
Backlight was already on 20. I've tried every setting except raising the base beightness of the tv. dynamic comtrast immediately fixed the problem and made all games beatiful. After googling the issue i found others who confirmed that too. I own a HU7200 with evolution kit.
The other option would be to keep DC off and max ingame brigthness.
What? The screen looked like brightess was lowered to a quarter of the No-HDR setting. This is definitely not how it's supposed to look.
Yes, there are issues with EDID handshakes for some people. I have a Denon-X1300W and can confirm that the Pro does put out higher than 8-bit using auto settings, and with different games I see 10 - 12 bit 422 and 420 being reported. I do get 8-bit RGB full 4:4:4 with non HDR games.
Yours looks like a 2015 model. My X1300 is a low-mid tier 2016 model. Have you checked for any firmware updates?
So OLED without receiver and auto works with accurate 10-bit?
That's correct.
That's definitely how it's supposed to look, you just aren't used to it. Dynamic Contrast makes dark areas darker and light areas brighter, crushing the detail in both but giving the image that "POP" that so many seem fond of.
Data Ghost
Member
The fact that we are having to debate this shows that it's not as simple as it should be.
I'm going back to SD.
I'm going back to SD.
JaguarCROW
Member
I have. I have tried both with the included HDMI cable with the PS4 Pro and 2 certified Blue Jeans Cable High Speed Premium HDMI cables. Both of those cables work to send a 4K HDCP 2.2 signal through the Denon X6200W to the LG TV without issue. But all 3 cables produce the same frequent disconnect/ reconnect cycle with the PS4 Pro.
I tried to register and start the Online support trouble ticket with Sony but when I tried they would not accept my PS4 Pro Serial Number. I don't really want to sit on hold to have someone tell me (Switch cables, & Connect it to your TV). I work in the technology sector for a major computer manufacturer and I could use some equipment at work to prove this but I strongly suspect what the PS4 Pro is doing for in its initial hand-shaking is the issue.
Rbk_3
Member
What setting do I use to not get 4:4:4 on non HDR? Reason being is I don't want 4:4:4 cause it raises the input lag on the KS8000.
Kamina
Golden Boy
The thing is, it made everything darker so the light areas were just a gray shade. I had to manually raise the ingame brightness to make it even remotely natural looking.
I understand now that DC is bad for HDR after reading the KS8000 thread, however without additional brightness it doesnt look nice.
Calibration simplifies things.
Audioboxer
Member
Set to 2160p YUV420 limited.
I have posted this before, but the average luminance of an average scene in-game should NOT change when HDR is enabled. If you enable HDR and everything gets washed out or changes drastically, something is not set up correctly to begin with.
In an average scene, colors should also NOT change their saturations between SDR and HDR. Find an average luminance seven to test this in to find out if you are set up properly. Although these games are using the WCG container (Rec 2020) it is doubtful that the colors saturations have been mapped outside of Rec709 area, just re-mapped to the Rec2020 equivalent.
Agreed! Even a basic luminance calibration will do most people wonders and fix 99% of these issues I see. This requires no purchase, can be done by eye and is quite easy.
All HDR enabled gaming is in limited, not full. Don't force full.
Audioboxer
Member
My man, thanks for answering that. Feels good when someone that knows their shit can answer in one sentence lol.
I'll leave everything on auto. It seems to default to RGB full on normal gaming, and as you said it must be limited when the likes of UC4 turns on HDR mode. If you know the technical reasons behind why HDR gaming opts for limited I'd be interested to know, given I've been told standard gaming does use the 0-255 range. I assume it's just something to do with the HDR standard rather than devs choosing to opt for limited?
Either way like there was at the PS3/Xbox 360 launch and the misusing of RBG settings on consoles/TVs, this added layer of HDR is probably going to have even more people out there with incorrectly calibrated TVs. Like me my TV does support RGB full, but until you answered my questions I had no idea HDR gaming works in limited. I only asked because I thought things were a bit too washed out, but others might never ask about that and just chalk it all up to what HDR does lol.
Everything on auto is a good idea. As far as your other questions, the HDR10 'standard' for UHD Blu-ray alliance specs YUV420 10-bit. As you know, these are games, not UHD blu-rays, and not all chroma subsampling from the Pro is in YUV 420, you will also see some YUV422. But you will not see 2160p RGB 4:4:4 (full) with HDR, as the bandwidth required is too high for the current HDMI 2.0a specification.
I agree people are having all kinds of incorrect settings. Most people should just leave everything in auto, unless they are having issues. And like you guessed, HDR shouldn't wash anything out. In an scene of average luminance, SDR and HDR should look identical. It isn't until you move into a high contrast scene, like some part of the image has very bright or the sun shining into it should you see a difference.
If PS4 Pro is in auto, for standard games it will output 2160p RGB 4:4:4 (full). In an HDR enabled game, it will automatically switch to limited, and then YUV420 or 422, with a bit depth greater than 10-bits (unless your set has an EDID issue with the Pro).