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PS4 PRO: for best IQ (Native 4k + HDR + 60 HZ + 4:4:4) 2160p-YUV420 or 2160p-RGB?

M

Mindman

Member
dark10x said:
I really think you need to see it for yourself.

Try playing a game in 4:2:0 and you'll see that, at 4K, it doesn't really have a significant impact on quality from a normal viewing distance (4-5ft from a 55", for example).

The entire point of HDR (when used properly) is to take advantage of the wider color spectrum.

Using Shadow Warrior 2 as an example, playing in 8-bit RGB mode looks AWFUL with HDR enabled in many scenes. The dramatic color gradients used in the sky, for instance, appear horribly posterized with very obvious banding. It just looks incorrect since this mode was designed to utilize 10-bits per channel.

What I'm saying is that 4:4:4 + 8-bit + HDR looks much worse, image quality wise, than 4:2:0 + 10-bit + HDR.
Click to expand...


Yeah you're right, I will have to see it for myself, and I appreciate your input on this. Now I just wonder when the HDMI 2.1 standard will actually come out that would allow 10-bit HDR with 4:4:4, even though current hardware like PS4 Pro won't even support it. I'm leaning towards getting an HDMI 2.0a TV today and hoping for a few years of it not being outdated. But then again maybe HDMI 2.1 will be a firmware upgrade, and we will all be safe buying a TV now...
 
L

Liabe Brave

Member
dark10x said:
The PS4 only outputs 1080p with HDR metadata which does not exceed the bandwidth of HDMI 1.4

The reason 10-bit RGB 4K60 isn't possible on HDMI 2.0 is a limitation of bandwidth.
Click to expand...
But the bandwidth isn't a necessary physical limitation of the HDMI encoding chip. It's just the standard for current encoding. As with the addition of HDR to 1080p signal, a firmware change to the encoder might be all that's needed.

That's far from guaranteed--it'd probably be a waste for Sony to include this future-proof flexibility in their chipset--but I don't think it's completely impossible as you said.
 
D

d9b

Banned
This is a great thread and very informative, I think we're nailing it. I just want to say thanks to everyone who contributed (and is still contributing)!
 
dr_rus

dr_rus

Member
family_guy said:
Don't these contradict each other? If I can't get HDR 10(which makes UHD worth it IMO) when I set it to RGB then why would I see better results with movies?
Click to expand...

The world doesn't end on HDMI 2.0. Eventually you will be able to run 4K HDR10 60Hz in RGB/444 and in this case the decoder and/or the TV set may be able to improve the color quality of UHD video encoded / stored in YPbPr 4:2:0 by some postprocessing math.

I also wonder if you'd be able to run 4K HDR10 24/30Hz in RGB/444 over HDMI 2.0 right now - considering that most video content is still encoded in 24 fps there's not much reason to go above it on the output port.

Liabe Brave said:
But the bandwidth isn't a necessary physical limitation of the HDMI encoding chip. It's just the standard for current encoding. As with the addition of HDR to 1080p signal, a firmware change to the encoder might be all that's needed.

That's far from guaranteed--it'd probably be a waste for Sony to include this future-proof flexibility in their chipset--but I don't think it's completely impossible as you said.
Click to expand...

Bandwidth is usually determined by the underlying hardware (lanes numbers, working frequencies), you generally can't increase bandwidth with a software update.
 
PLASTICA-MAN

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Mindman said:
Yeah you're right, I will have to see it for myself, and I appreciate your input on this. Now I just wonder when the HDMI 2.1 standard will actually come out that would allow 10-bit HDR with 4:4:4, even though current hardware like PS4 Pro won't even support it. I'm leaning towards getting an HDMI 2.0a TV today and hoping for a few years of it not being outdated. But then again maybe HDMI 2.1 will be a firmware upgrade, and we will all be safe buying a TV now...
Click to expand...

Some tech sites assume that HDMI 2.1 will be a firmware update but who knows.
 
F

family_guy

Member
Sony should have copied Microsoft's checklist of supported options for your TV that they have on the Xbox One S.




cG3F09N9.jpg
 
Freshmaker

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
SonicAaron said:
I'd like to thank Gaf for another mind boggling thread where none of us now know the best setting for PS4 Pro lol
Click to expand...
It's kinda moot since no ps4 pro game will be running 4:4:4 anyway. They will be 4:2:0. So stressing out over getting your system to run the pc monitor setting is completely useless.
 
Mattdaddy

Mattdaddy

Gold Member
d9b said:
Does it support HDR10?
Click to expand...

This is what rtings said.

"Although the KU6300 support HDR10 input, it does not really benefit from it, since it does not support a wide color gamut and it cannot really get highlight very bright."

I guess that's a yes, it reads like a "kinda, not really". Hell I get so confused.
 
N

NewDust

Member
Mattdaddy said:
This is what rtings said.

"Although the KU6300 support HDR10 input, it does not really benefit from it, since it does not support a wide color gamut and it cannot really get highlight very bright."

I guess that's a yes, it reads like a "kinda, not really". Hell I get so confused.
Click to expand...

It's HDR capabilities are as good as opening an 2160p picture on your PC and display it fullscreen on a 1080p monitor and say "look it supports 4K". The KU6300 gets only half as bright as most "lower end" 4k screens. That is about as much as a regular HD tv. Same for color space.

The only thing it really does is 4K resolution.
 
J

jonno394

Member
NewDust said:
It's HDR capabilities are as good as opening an 2160p picture on your PC and display it fullscreen on a 1080p monitor and say "look it supports 4K". The KU6300 gets only half as bright as most "lower end" 4k screens. That is about as much as a regular HD tv. Same for color space.

The only thing it really does is 4K resolution.
Click to expand...

I think you are being overly harsh especially when countless reviews praise the unit. Please show me these standard HDTVs that match the peak brightness of the 6300 and also, please show me the "lower end" (im assuming you mean price because the 50KU6300 only cost me £450, so which TVs beat it by 100% at that price?) TVs that it is half as bright as based on the following:

http://uk.rtings.com/tv/tests/picture-quality/peak-brightness

It's ranked 13th out of all the UHD TVs rtings have tested for peak brightness btw, well off the 1000 nits, but still much better than a lot of sets.
 
blu

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
iTehDroiD said:
Yea I should have said that I mean the RGB setting in the screenshot.

RGB can be 4:4:4 or 4:2:0. Just subsample a YUV signal and convert it to RGB and you have your subsampled RGB signal. In this case RGB means no subsampling has been done.
Click to expand...
I understand what you're saying, but that'd be just full-sampled RGB signal carrying degraded source data. RGB encoding itself (also as found in HDMI) does not support component subsampling, since there's no physiological basis for that. In contrast to luma/chroma encodings where subsampling is based on the fact human vision is less sensitive to chrominance.
 
B

brau

Member
family_guy said:
Sony should have copied Microsoft's checklist of supported options for your TV that they have on the Xbox One S.




cG3F09N9.jpg
Click to expand...

Im just happy i get all of these green check marks with my setup right now.

But i agree, the PS4 Pro should have something similar that tells you what your TV is compatible with in its current settings.
 
L

lord pie

Member
My understanding is:

When the PS4 is set to 'Automatic', then in an HDR game it'll choose either 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 based on TV support, and for SDR games it'll chose RGB (again if the TV supports it).

The explicit settings are likely there so you can force a mode if the handshake screws up.
So my advice is use "automatic" unless you are having display issues.
 
E

Eylos

Banned
Ok to summarize everything,if you are not playing 60 fps game, no worries

If you are then you have to choose rgb or hdr ,that's it?
 
F

FarFromAnyGame

Banned
dose said:
Except it's not. Like I said earlier, if you have a HDR TV but you don't want to (or can't) run a game higher than 30fps, then you should choose RGB.
Click to expand...

Let's say I'm playing Tomb Raider 4k mode which is 4K@30fps, I should choose RGB?

And when I switch to NBA2K17, I choose 420?
 
Caayn

Caayn

Member
dose said:
Except it's not. Like I said earlier, if you have a HDR TV but you don't want to (or can't) run a game higher than 30fps, then you should choose RGB. So..
HDR@30fps=RGB.
Click to expand...
That'll only work if the console actually switches to a 30hz signal when playing a 30fps game.

Is this confirmed to be the case for PS4 Pro?
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Caayn said:
That'll only work if the console actually switches to a 30hz signal when playing a 30fps game.

Is this confirmed to be the case for PS4 Pro?
Click to expand...
Absolutely not. The Pro only outputs at 60hz for games.

24hz is supported for movies, of course, but 30hz is right out.

It's not a good idea either. 30hz input feels extremely laggy, I've found (having tested it on the PC).
 
M

Metfanant

Member
All I'm getting from this topic is that I hope my trusty 1080p Samsung LED DLP doesn't shit the bed on me anytime soon...

Too many compromises to be made going with just about any of the available TV's out there right now unfoetunately
 
Caayn

Caayn

Member
dark10x said:
Absolutely not. The Pro only outputs at 60hz for games.

24hz is supported for movies, of course, but 30hz is right out.

It's not a good idea either. 30hz input feels extremely laggy, I've found (having tested it on the PC).
Click to expand...
Thanks for the confirmation.
 
B

b0bbyJ03

Member
ah shit, i just bout a new HDR tv like 2 weeks ago and this thread made me feel like its going to be obsolete in like a year. lol. Had no idea that the HDMI bandwidth was limiting the TV.
 
T

Tiduz

Eurogaime
dark10x said:
Absolutely not. The Pro only outputs at 60hz for games.

24hz is supported for movies, of course, but 30hz is right out.

It's not a good idea either. 30hz input feels extremely laggy, I've found (having tested it on the PC).
Click to expand...

yep i have the XD80 and my amd r9 390 has hdmi 1.4 so i only get 30 hz on 4k, the mouse alone is extremely laggy, disgusting. :(
 
A

Aztechnology

Member
Silent-blades said:
What about

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/js8500

I've asked this before in other threads and got zilch.


Thanks
Click to expand...

What about it?

b0bbyJ03 said:
ah shit, i just bout a new HDR tv like 2 weeks ago and this thread made me feel like its going to be obsolete in like a year. lol. Had no idea that the HDMI bandwidth was limiting the TV.
Click to expand...

There will always be evolving standards and increases in technology. As someone who has dabbled in 4k high end over the last few years and always end up selling as we "weren't quite there yet" for the first time feel like we've hit a nice point. I just wouldn't spend several thousand dollars on a TV unless you have a ton of disposable income and won't miss it. The lower the cost of the TV the easier it is to resell later and get a great proportionate amount back. It's like Graphics cards, there's definitely a point of diminishing returns.

as for YUV 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 you likely won't notice it too much outside of PC usages like documents and design work. Which is why it's probably not recommended to pick this up if you're trying to do graphics design at 4k. 1080p RGB 4:4:4 still works though.
 
B

b0bbyJ03

Member
Aztechnology said:
What about it?



There will always be evolving standards and increases in technology. As someone who has dabbled in 4k high end over the last few years and always end up selling as we "weren't quite there yet" for the first time feel like we've hit a nice point. I just wouldn't spend several thousand dollars on a TV unless you have a ton of disposable income and won't miss it. The lower the cost of the TV the easier it is to resell later and get a great proportionate amount back. It's like Graphics cards, there's definitely a point of diminishing returns.

as for YUV 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 you likely won't notice it too much outside of PC usages like documents and design work. Which is why it's probably not recommended to pick this up if you're trying to do graphics design at 4k. 1080p RGB 4:4:4 still works though.
Click to expand...


well its too late for me. already took the plunge and bought a B6. Its not like I regret it or anything. Every time I sit down and watch anything on it I just can't believe how good the picture quality is. As long as I stay off the forums I'll be happy.
 
S

Silent-blades

Banned
Aztechnology said:
What about it?



There will always be evolving standards and increases in technology. As someone who has dabbled in 4k high end over the last few years and always end up selling as we "weren't quite there yet" for the first time feel like we've hit a nice point. I just wouldn't spend several thousand dollars on a TV unless you have a ton of disposable income and won't miss it. The lower the cost of the TV the easier it is to resell later and get a great proportionate amount back. It's like Graphics cards, there's definitely a point of diminishing returns.

as for YUV 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 you likely won't notice it too much outside of PC usages like documents and design work. Which is why it's probably not recommended to pick this up if you're trying to do graphics design at 4k. 1080p RGB 4:4:4 still works though.
Click to expand...

Which mode should I use? Or I guess best mode to use. Also I see folks say use game mode. Would using it in PC input cause issues as that's what I use now.
 
A

Aztechnology

Member
Silent-blades said:
Which mode should I use? Or I guess best mode to use. Also I see folks say use game mode. Would using it in PC input cause issues as that's what I use now.
Click to expand...

Try this thread specifically for the 8000/8500 set. I haven't received mine yet so I can't comment.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1308315&highlight=

As far as I know the 8500 is the same as the 8000 just curved.

Silent-blades said:
Which mode should I use? Or I guess best mode to use. Also I see folks say use game mode. Would using it in PC input cause issues as that's what I use now.
Click to expand...

Try this thread specifically for the 8000/8500 set. I haven't received mine yet so I can't comment.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1308315&highlight=

As far as I know the 8500 is the same as the 8000 just curved.

Robot Pants said:
YES
See my wonderful adventures here: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1299888

It's amazing how many manufacturers straight up LIE about the specs of their switches and splitters.
The only one that does everything needed right now is Integral HD fury and it's like 300 bucks.
Click to expand...

There Isnt a HDR Tv on the market currently that can do 4k 10bit HDR 4:4:4 (unless there's one with DisplayPort 1.3b or 1. 4 I don't know about). It's a limitation of HDMI 2.0 in general.
 
M

Mar Nosso

Banned
This thread has made it wonderfully clear to me that the best thing to do right now is to wait until next year's TVs come out before getting a 4K set.

Which I'm very happy about as I'm buying the Pro and building a new PC this year.

Thank you kindly GAF!
 
JrBaconCheeseburger

JrBaconCheeseburger

Member
Call me crazy but couldn't Sony have used a better naming method than 2160PYUV420 OR 2160RGB?

I read every post in this thread and i think my head is about to explode.

Still confused.
 
Yautja_Warrior

Yautja_Warrior

Member
Not really played much HDR content on my Sony 55-X8509c so far, as I don't have a UHD blu-ray player yet, just a few very early clips off a USB stick but I saw that YouTube has just launched its HDR support, so thought I'd give it a try.

Holy shit, the colours and contrast are incredible, way better than I ever thought possible, as my TV is not exactly the latest model. Cannot wait to try some HDR games now, Infamous with the Neon power should look awesome.

Here's the link if anyone wants to check it out.

https://youtu.be/tO01J-M3g0U
 
T

Torgo

Junior Member
I haven't read all of this thread yet, but I wanted to let y'all know that the PS4 Pro is definitely working fine with the Vizio P Series (I have a P55-C1)

I've set my resolution to 2160p - RGB, everything else to Auto, and HDR is showing "Yes" when I play Ratchet & Clank, and it looks spectacular.

Also, I set my resolution to 1080p on the Pro, and HDR is definitely working.
 
Robot Pants

Robot Pants

Member
Yautja_Warrior said:
Not really played much HDR content on my Sony 55-X8509c so far, as I don't have a UHD blu-ray player yet, just a few very early clips off a USB stick but I saw that YouTube has just launched its HDR support, so thought I'd give it a try.

Holy shit, the colours and contrast are incredible, way better than I ever thought possible, as my TV is not exactly the latest model. Cannot wait to try some HDR games now, Infamous with the Neon power should look awesome.

Here's the link if anyone wants to check it out.

https://youtu.be/tO01J-M3g0U
Click to expand...

A lot of us have your TV (the 65 version though) and all the HDR stuff looks great. Infamous especially.
 
D

DBT85

Member
Torgo said:
I haven't read all of this thread yet, but I wanted to let y'all know that the PS4 Pro is definitely working fine with the Vizio P Series (I have a P55-C1)

I've set my resolution to 2160p - RGB, everything else to Auto, and HDR is showing "Yes" when I play Ratchet & Clank, and it looks spectacular.

Also, I set my resolution to 1080p on the Pro, and HDR is definitely working.
Click to expand...

Have you tried 4:2:0 to compare?
 
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