Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Mass shootings and guns are cool and ok, but legalizing sex? Would someone please think of the children!
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Should Prostitution Be a Crime? (NYT Magazine)
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this is somehow a depressing kind of description for some reason.
why would that be the case? who the hell would make a brothel where racism is the basis of business? A racist? Who the hell would go to a racist brothel? Racists?
fuck all of those people, figuratively. And as far as sex providers, why would they only provide on a racial basis if they were out for commercial profit and making their own living? That doesn't make any sense.
GeordieMark
Member
Nope. Regulate it and make it safe. It reminds me of the old NOFX song. Prostitutes aren't selling bodies. They their sell time, just like anyone else. I'm
I'm in no position to tell anyone else what to do with theirs.
I'm in no position to tell anyone else what to do with theirs.
InfectedZero
Member
I was thinking of that same thing haha
| Praxis |
Banned
The one like two decades ago? I'm on about a story on BBC news now.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
I'm not sure what you mean by a "protected right". But, yes, there are protections about haircutting in the UK - the cutting of hair without consent amounts to actual bodily harm (DPP v Smith [2006] EWHC 94).
Well duh. If you could regulate it and make it safe literally everything should be legal. The problem is how do you make it safe in the first place?
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
To put my answer first before reading... I say I think it should be legal. But as with other things, it really just has to be well regulated. If porn is legal, I just can't understand why prostitution (if the person signing up is cool with it) isn't. Let people do what they want with their bodies, including selling it.
Plus imagine the lives it will save if it is legal and the money that can be gained and taxed (yes, I have no shame) because there is a demand for it?
Plus imagine the lives it will save if it is legal and the money that can be gained and taxed (yes, I have no shame) because there is a demand for it?
While what you say makes sense, we can go on an escorting site right now and look at the restrictions that almost all of the women have for customers/ clients. Money doesn't mean much
and its all still very illegal and run by pimps and traffickers and dudes with guns for the most part. black people attract attention, hell a black man walking down the street is liable to be followed by a police car just on general principal. So that sort of makes sense if they only want to see the most nondescript money carrying customers, especially if they're also connected to traffickers and whatever else.
Many of those requirements are for safety reasons as much as they are preference. A great deal of the safety reasons are rooted in racism--which I'm not going to blame someone for having per se, but it's important to call it as it is.
Even on non-physical sex work sites many of the workers still have preferences. I know a great deal of camgirls that aren't into girl/girl (or guy/guy or guy/girl, etc, etc) interactions or interacting with certain races--as their experiences have led to certain prejudices along with base preference to begin with.
But why would making it legal immediately remove the risk of danger, unless we are saying only brothels are legal and woman can't be independent contractors that get health check ups etc
I'm not saying making it legal would remove any of the risks of danger. I'm just saying that many of the requirements for their clientele are based off of safety as well as preference. Legality isn't likely to change anything about that.
Well yeah that's what I was saying. I understand why their are restrictions but the above poster was making it seem like those would all go away since its legal
You really think they are the same? One is the rights of the person who is providing the service, the thing you are talking about is the rights of the consumer. Forcing someone to give you a haircut is not even remotely the same as forcing someone to sleep with you. At most the first is theft, the second is theft + rape
If they don't want to have sex with certain people then they shouldn't be prostitutes then. You can't make exceptions on something like racial discrimination.
My mistake in that case! None of that would go away if it would be legal--but according to current law it should. I mean, just don't go saying that you're turning someone away for being black and you're likely in the clear. But someone would slip and say that and bam! Lawsuit.
Legalisation would take a ton of legal work to perform. Businesses have the right to refuse service, they just can't say or imply why they're refusing said service.
That's cute but naive. Being a prostitute isn't always a matter of choice, and people that are doing it as a last resort--or even as an actual career choice--should still have their choice respected. I can refuse to work with a client for any number of reasons, I just don't say it. Just don't go sayin' no black people. Just say no and turn them away.
well if its legal, and you say get out of my house, and the person doesn't they're immediately legally liable, heading into illegality if they don't comply. If you're talking danger of violence, etc, there are also now legal protections since the person would definitely be prosecuted. The most simple way to solve things is take your money and gtfo, unless they're sick or something. and if everything is on record since its all legal, so the provider knows who you are, I mean, there is a lot of baked in resistance to all the stuff people are afraid of today.
Keeping up with health regulations and necessary licensing and taxation as a freelance sex detective (that is what I will have on my business card) should all be part of the institutionalized sex industry once legalization occurs.
(shut up lol, we could have guns and badges, plus I could do something I like and make money in my spare time. Like Uber for sex. You know as soon as they do it, whoever gets it will make a few million on the phone app.)
If sex as work is legal and the same as any service, as some people have said, could your at any regular job demand you to do it or be fired? Like could your boss say its part of the secretaries job now to provide sex? How would you handle sexual harassment in the workplace if you can offer your employee 100$ to service you, legally? Wouldn't that make a work place uncomfortable?
If I worked at McDonald's and refused to serve minorities would you also say the same thing? It's not naive, I'm being principled, you aren't.
Wat.
This is concern trolling at it's finest. Work places still have sexual harassment rules. If your workplace implements a policy that would allow that sort of transaction you can choose to not work there.
You're equating sex work with working at McDonald's. That's kind of absurd in and of itself. Besides, mcdonalds itself has internal policy about serving everyone. If that runs counter to your beliefs--you don't work for McDonald's.
If a brothel has the same policy and you aren't comfortable with their requirements of employment, you don't work for that brothel.
Yeah it is nonsense, but so is saying sex work is just like any other service. people are literally arguing you shouldn't be able to choose who you have sex with as a sex worker
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
No, of course I don't think they are the same. Not at all.
I was arguing against the claim that payment vitiates consent, which it doesn't.
Aeriscloud
Banned
They need to legalize it so that I can get a job.
LiquidSolid
Member
It has helped in New Zealand. And while sure, we're fairly isolated and that helps prevent shitty things like trafficking, I don't understand why a well regulated and policed prostitution industry can't work. To me, all the things being said about the industry in Germany doesn't make it sound like the idea is bad, just that their execution is bad.
Yeah I am. Why should we treat prostitution different than other jobs? Prostitution is a service, if it is legal, labor laws and discrimination laws that apply to other jobs should apply to it.
Please explain how this is absurd.
If your on the clock then you shouldn't be able to. Unless they are doing something that would be covered under the right to refuse service.
legislatures in lots of places have given sex work some special categories, so its very much not like refusing to bake a cake. It is more like refusing to massage an old wrinkly dude. You lose money, lose business, lose reputation points on sex Uber, but ultimately its all very legal.
now, what they need to do is build in protections for women so that the inherent sexism of the world doesn't turn it all into legalized sex slavery.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Most of the justifications to criminalize it are simply not valid. Criminalization of sex work puts women in poverty at greater risk as they may still go into it even if it is illegal - thereby increasing the spread of STDs and making it so that if they are robbed, assaulted, or worse, they have no legal recourse. The "sex work industry" is absolutely the best way to fix these problems - unfortunately, the true reason why it's illegal - "morality" - is more important than anything else.
Moral Panic
Member
But can you refuse to massage black people?
How is that supposed to work? Make all men eunuchs? (that would still leave lesbian prostitution unsolved though...)
History has shown that criminalizing questionable human behavior has never worked, prohibition failed, the war on drug is failing (and there is a push to legalize drugs) and prostitution is not called the oldest profession without some reason behind it. Criminalizing only makes this a business case for organized crime and there the weak are then completely unprotected.
I think it's more or less if your on the clock, you take customers that come . Not saying you have to have sex at all times of the day even if your not working. That's forcing somebody. If your shop is open, why would you choose who to serve. Why even be in that business then
Vigilant Walrus
Member
It is legal in Denmark, but like other posters pointed out, the big problem is human trafficking.
Why? Because it's not clear when someone is a prostitute, and when someone is a human sold into slavery. The confusion has caused a mass systemic rift in trying to solve the issues.
I've recently researched the topic for a branding campaign for womens rights. We engaged in a viral campaign trying to inform the buyers of prostitutes to report it anonymously to the police if they see signs of human trafficking.
Some of the key identifiers are; When you ask her questions about what day it is, what city she is in, how long she has been here - If she cannot answer those questions, more than likely she is not free and is being controlled.
This raises enough another conundrum, because there are prostitutes who are not slaves but are essentially being abused by their pimp and/or have serious addiction problems.
I believe as a society we have revolutionize the way we look at sex, prostitution and porn. If we can get prostitutes organized, and not just in terms of paying taxes, but to make sure they are properly protected and their rights are maintained.
Don't forget- millions of people all over the world are dependent on prostitutes. Many, many people for various circumstances be it severe disabilities, or other physical or mental problems are unable to find sexual stimulation in the real world, and they are dependent. Many special care homes for the disabled or handicapped have visits from prostitutes who help these people.
It's a facet of society not many wants to talk about, but they serve an important function in many of these peoples lives. Yet we still treat sex workers like the scum of the earth and the lowest. We don't have to give out PHDs in being a hooker, but we can improve the way we engage them. Community initiatives and NGOs might help make courses that teach them to protect themselves and anonymously network with others who might be abused.
A political effort may put forth that seeks to punish those that harms prostitutes and demeans them as people instead of harming them. Prostitution is the oldest profession in the world and it is not going away.
There is also a hope that emerging technologies like Mobile pay, might allow for prostitutes of the future to not need a pimp as a middle man giving them more independence.
Why? Because it's not clear when someone is a prostitute, and when someone is a human sold into slavery. The confusion has caused a mass systemic rift in trying to solve the issues.
I've recently researched the topic for a branding campaign for womens rights. We engaged in a viral campaign trying to inform the buyers of prostitutes to report it anonymously to the police if they see signs of human trafficking.
Some of the key identifiers are; When you ask her questions about what day it is, what city she is in, how long she has been here - If she cannot answer those questions, more than likely she is not free and is being controlled.
This raises enough another conundrum, because there are prostitutes who are not slaves but are essentially being abused by their pimp and/or have serious addiction problems.
I believe as a society we have revolutionize the way we look at sex, prostitution and porn. If we can get prostitutes organized, and not just in terms of paying taxes, but to make sure they are properly protected and their rights are maintained.
Don't forget- millions of people all over the world are dependent on prostitutes. Many, many people for various circumstances be it severe disabilities, or other physical or mental problems are unable to find sexual stimulation in the real world, and they are dependent. Many special care homes for the disabled or handicapped have visits from prostitutes who help these people.
It's a facet of society not many wants to talk about, but they serve an important function in many of these peoples lives. Yet we still treat sex workers like the scum of the earth and the lowest. We don't have to give out PHDs in being a hooker, but we can improve the way we engage them. Community initiatives and NGOs might help make courses that teach them to protect themselves and anonymously network with others who might be abused.
A political effort may put forth that seeks to punish those that harms prostitutes and demeans them as people instead of harming them. Prostitution is the oldest profession in the world and it is not going away.
There is also a hope that emerging technologies like Mobile pay, might allow for prostitutes of the future to not need a pimp as a middle man giving them more independence.
yes. and hopefully your business will eventually suffer because of it, but if you don't want to personally rub your hands all over a man's bare black buttocks, I don't think you should be forced to. its your loss, because it glows red when you rub it with oil. like burnished bronze.
Unless you're providing therapy or something. But sex work? no.
A Link to the Past
Banned
It's a tricky situation, but sex, while it is a valid "commodity", is different than baking a cake or building a house.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
That's actually a really good point that hadn't occurred to me before.
xXCrazyCostaXX
Member
Holy shit! Close the thread lol
Frankfurter
Member
Is there a reason why porn is legal while prostitution is illegal?
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sarcastor said:
/thread
Chainsawkitten
Member
Commercial surrogacy is not legal in the majority of the world.
Jack Remington
Banned
Philosophically, should never be monetized. So yes.
Pragmatically, and I fucking hate to say this, legalization might be a good idea.
Pragmatically, and I fucking hate to say this, legalization might be a good idea.
God Dayumm
Banned
There is human trafficking and exploitation in other legal industries, in the US. Farming, restaurants, nail salons have underpaid and overworked illegal immigrants sometimes brought against their will. These instances should be accounted for changing regulation but not for outlawing these services, and the same should apply for prostitution.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
What are the philosophical arguments against?
Sex is bad 'Cuz Jesus says so.
I'd say this sum my thought on it pretty much. I think legalization until now has in large part failed because while it's technically legal, it's also still socially unacceptable. This is like the weed thing, but in reverse. There need to a campaign to bring consciousness on sex trafficking, prostitution etc... before or at least along actual legalization.
Maybe having prostitutes only being able to work by themselves and not be actually employed by someone else could also help? Or permit them to be only auto-employed or state employed. I think it's a work that certainly need special protections to avoid abuse. State-controlled brothels could help curtail the trafficking effect. You'd need to have official documents and all etc... I don't doubt corruption would be everyhwere in there then.
j0hnnix
Member
This.. I agree. Why not?
Isn't dating prostitution? You pay to take them out to eventually get them to bed, woman expect to be paid, treated well, you know "wine and dine". They just shadow it for their own emotional benefits and to feel better about themselves. legalizing prostitution would probably benefit both men and woman in the long run. Those that actually don't want to be in a relationship and just need to satisfy their needs.
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