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[SheSaidNo]

I am German, and unless you can provide a source for that, I am calling bullshit.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-a-prostitute-we-can-stop-your-benefits.html

 

[sibarraz]

Prostitution should be legal and regulated.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

The trafficking is a problem in Germany but it's a difficult issue to solve, since by regulating it there is a market, but at the same time you have good safety nets for sex workers in general. It's ultimately better than having it illegal and also trafficking occurring.

There is good protection for sex workers in Germany. It's not perfect in Germany but police are very active in visiting and raiding brothels to enforce regulation and stop illegal activity. There are also a lot of gay brothels in the country (Berlin is after all the gay capital of Europe) that must adhere to the same regulation.

I definitely don't think it's perfect but I think it's on the right track in some places in at least protecting sex workers, especially regarding their health. It being regulated in Germany has made it much safer for sex workers than in other parts of the world where it's illegal.

It's a tough issue, but I really don't feel it's something that should be a crime. It needs regulation and protection while also measures to limit trafficking. It is at least half way to improving lives of sex workers, it's better than nothing at all in my opinion.

Haha what? No. By making it legal the police in Germany now has much less options to investigate human trafficking. And forced prostitution is booming in Germany. This absolutely made life worse for prostitutes. Most prostitutes in Germany are not doing this voluntarily, the whole business is still controlled by organised crime. And imo this absolutely warants a ban on prostitution. Of course such a law must be designed in a way to not criminalize the victims, but the perpetrators.

 

[Meffer]

It would be A LOT safer for the women if it was legal

That's my line of thought as well. If it became legal, systems and regulations would implemented to keep both sides safe.

 

[ElTorro]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-a-prostitute-we-can-stop-your-benefits.html

That was mistake by the case worker at the employment agency. (Apparently, the job was as a bartender.) Brothel owners may post open jobs through the agency, but the agency is not allowed to communicate them unless the unemployed person asks for them. The agency can only deny money if the unemployee rejects a reasonable job, and prostitution does not qualify as that.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Haha what? No. By making it legal the police in Germany now has much less options to investigate human trafficking. And forced prostitution is booming in Germany. This absolutely made life worse for prostitutes. Most prostitutes in Germany are not doing this voluntarily, the whole business is still controlled by organised crime. And imo this absolutely warants a ban on prostitution. Of course such a law must be designed in a way to not criminalize the victims, but the perpetrators.

How is it harder to investigate compared to the US, for instance? If it's regulated, then that implies records need to be kept, licenses and whatnot. In the US, the whole operation is off-the-grid. Do you know how hard it is to collar a pimp or trafficker here? Much harder than someone doing it through established businesses with paper trails.

 

[koji kabuto]

Trying to stop prostitution is laughable.

 

[SlipperyMoose]

No it should not be a crime. Prostitution essentially is legal already just in another name, pornography. People get paid to have sex with each other and then record it and sell videos of them having sex for more money.

 

[entremet]

Trying to stop prostitution is laughable.

I don't know if that's the motive otherwise the War of Drugs would be over.

It exists mostly because of the prison industrial complex.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

imprisoning prostitutes and organizing these stings/raids to 'end' prostitution, driving it further and further underground and in skeevy territory, has a negative effect. I believe that it does need some kind of regulation or maybe encourage participants to record all encounters.

Escorting isn't rare in this day and age, anyway. It's just that now that it's been driven underground so it has heavy attachments to the heavy drug scene and unsafe fetish.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

How is it harder to investigate compared to the US, for instance? If it's regulated, then that implies records need to be kept, licenses and whatnot. In the US, the whole operation is off-the-grid. Do you know how hard it is to collar a pimp or trafficker here? Much harder than someone doing it through established businesses with paper trails.

The prostitutes here get their licenses and documents from their pimps. From the outside it looks like legitimate businesses, and that's why it's hard/impossible for the police to request surveillance and warrants. Often they can only sit and watch.

A better approach could be to only criminalize the customers and pimps of prostitutes. That way the women can get their health services/protection etc., and the police can act against those people behind them.

 

[SheSaidNo]

That was mistake by the case worker at the employment agency. (Apparently, the job was as a bartender.) Brothel owners may post open jobs through the agency, but the agency is not allowed to communicate them unless the unemployed person asks for them. The agency can only deny money if the unemployee rejects a reasonable job, and prostitution does not qualify as that.

Ah I see, even then the sentiment that sex working is not a regular job or product remains. It's basically paying to abuse women. Making it legal won't make it less abusive. If a man violates a woman or does something she did not agree to initially, how would the man be punished? I support decriminalizing sex workers but going after the johns. How can sex working be a choice when most of the people who do it rely on the income to survive?

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I don't know if that's the motive otherwise the War of Drugs would be over.

It exists mostly because of the prison industrial complex.

I wouldn't be surprised if it has more to do with a bunch of old men not liking the idea of women having the right to offer sex based services.

 

[Valhelm]

Prostitutes should not be punished for their circumstance, but I don't think it's good for sex to be an accepted commodity. The normalization of sex work is bad for both women and men, because when sex is treated as a product, consent is compromised. Unlike baking a wedding cake, sexual consent can't be reconciled with discrimination laws. Many prostitutes explicitly turn away clients of certain races, and many prostitutes refuse to patronize people of the same sex. This is contrary to the American legal system, but the alternative is state-sanctioned rape. In addition, the normalization of sex work has disconcerting implications for non-monetary sexual relationships.

Prostitution should stay illegal, but we should look upon sex workers with sympathy rather than scorn. Instead of sending these people to prison, we should help them find better economic opportunities.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

I wouldn't be surprised if it more exists because a bunch of old men don't like the idea of women having the right to offer sex based services.

Sigh. Do people really think this? Where I live, feminists are strongly against prostitution. Because they know that the women who are actually doing this by their own will, are just an incredibly small minority. The vast majority are forced to do this, and they are suffering. And with prostitution being legal here, those feminists also don't think that a bunch of old men "don't like the idea of women having the right to offer sex based services". They think that a bunch of old men don't like the idea that they can't visit those prostitutes anymore.

 

[SheSaidNo]

I wouldn't be surprised if it has more to do with a bunch of old men not liking the idea of women having the right to offer sex based services.

Governments with the most women elected democratically in them usually support laws that decriminalize sex working but prosecuting the people buying

 

[Ray Wonder]

Walk around with a sign everywhere I go

blowies 4 sale: $10

 

[PdotMichael]

Ah I see, even then the sentiment that sex working is not a regular job or product remains. It's basically paying to abuse women. Making it legal won't make it less abusive. If a man violates a woman or does something she did not agree to initially, how would the man be punished? I support decriminalizing sex workers but going after the johns. How can sex working be a choice when most of the people who do it rely on the income to survive?

No, not really.

Also it's just plain naive to think that forbidding something makes it somehow dissapear - war on drugs etc.
Take away criminal groups their base and prostitution will become businesss between two adult people.

 

[Valhelm]

Sigh. Do people really think this? Where I live, feminists are strongly against prostitution. Because they know that the women who are actually doing this by their own will, are just an incredibly small minority. The vast majority are forced to do this, and they are suffering. And with prostitution being legal here, those feminists also don't think that a bunch of old men "don't like the idea of women having the right to offer sex based services". They think that a bunch of old men don't like the idea that they can't visit those prostitutes anymore.

In the US, prostitutes and pimps were allowed to operate pretty freely until the turn of the century. Feminist groups, Catholic clergy, and Protestant groups like the Salvation Army all opposed prostitution for its perceived moral evil, especially as suffered by women. Many feminists believed that prostitution should be banned, because it was a system in which good white girls were into sin. In addition, there was a serious moral fear of chaste housewives being abandoned by neglectful husbands who'd rather spend time cavorting with prostitutes.

Because attitudes toward sex have changed, there is no longer a single feminist attitude toward prostitution.

 

[Yaboosh]

Pimping should be illegal.

 

[RurouniZel]

Prostitutes should not be punished for their circumstance, but I don't think it's good for sex to be an accepted commodity. The normalization of sex work is bad for both women and men, because when sex is treated as a product, consent is compromised. Unlike baking a wedding cake, sexual consent can't be reconciled with discrimination laws. Many prostitutes explicitly turn away clients of certain races, and many prostitutes refuse to patronize people of the same sex. This is contrary to the American legal system, but the alternative is state-sanctioned rape. In addition, the normalization of sex work has disconcerting implications for non-monetary sexual relationships.

Prostitution should stay illegal, but we should look upon sex workers with sympathy rather than scorn. Instead of sending these people to prison, we should help them find better economic opportunities.

The bolder is an important point that I agree with. If prostitution is made legal it makes it much harder for sex workers to claim a lack of consent if they are raped.

 

[Ray Wonder]

That wouldn't really happen though. You could just go to a brothel and pay that without creeping or getting a drink thrown on you. It'd be like someone in a bar trying to buy your pants instead of just going to a clothing store to buy their own pants.

So you're saying people wouldn't have normal sex anymore? I'm saying after being rejected by a person they're interested in, they may offer to pay. Not go to the bar seeking out someone to ask to be a prostitute.

 

[Amory]

It should be legal in regulated brothels. Street prostitution should remain illegal, too many dangers associated with it

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Where I live, feminists are strongly against prostitution.

And where I live 'feminists' are a varied group of individuals ranging from supporting the legalization, to decriminalization, to criminalizing it, and everything in between. None of that changes that American politics have long been established by old men who have a clear track record of denying rights to everyone else.

 

[Ray Wonder]

It should be legal in regulated brothels. Street prostitution should remain illegal, too many dangers associated with it

I can get behind this.

 

[SheSaidNo]

It should be legal in regulated brothels. Street prostitution should remain illegal, too many dangers associated with it

More workers are attacked and abused in a brothel, at least on the street protestitues know how to get away And have greater control over who they choose

 

[shintoki]

It should be legal in regulated brothels. Street prostitution should remain illegal, too many dangers associated with it

That would be the idea. Its the same with legalizing weed.

When its illegal, the only people who do it are crime syndicates since its big money.
When its legal, fucking Wal Mart is going to sell that shit. Crime syndicates can't compete with big business.

 

[E92 M3]

Legalizing prostitution would put a lot of scumbags (pimps/traffickers) out of "work." It should be done.

 

[massoluk]

To me, it's immoral, but shouldn't be illegal. Very simple premise. Better to have it out in the open than hidden underground, no matter how bad it sounds

 

[entremet]

It should be legal in regulated brothels. Street prostitution should remain illegal, too many dangers associated with it

So it would be the same?

The appeal with street walking and other forms of prostitution is the low overhead for pimps.

 

[dave is ok]

Legalizing prostitution would put a lot of scumbags (pimps/traffickers) out of "work." It should be done.

What's to stop those scumbags from incorporating and running legal brothels where they can treat their employees poorly?

 

[Somnid]

You should need a license. To keep your license you need monthly checkups where they basically ask you a series of questions about your health, safety and give you an STD check.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Sex workers shouldn't be going to jail, or get a Criminal Records that hang around their necks for life.

Also, The Bunny Ranch in Nevada is a thing, so why exactly don't we have laws allowing for well regulated brothels like that in this Country? It feels like something, as long as it's very well regulated and safe, that should not be illegal, and could even be a positive thing for a whole lot of people.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

That would be the idea. Its the same with legalizing weed.

When its illegal, the only people who do it are crime syndicates since its big money.
When its legal, fucking Wal Mart is going to sell that shit. Crime syndicates can't compete with big business.

Jesus, you can't compare this to products sold by Walmart. If prostitution was legal, and free from criminal activities and force, prices would explode. Turns out that women aren't so keen on spreading their legs for a few dollars, when there are better alternatives. The only reason prices are so low is because those women are forced to, and because the industry is in the hands of organised crime. And when it's "legal", those crime syndicates will found companies to exploit their victims on an even bigger scale.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Prostitution, yes
Trafficking, no

Let the women control the whole exchange safely and there is no need for it to be illegal.

 

[PdotMichael]

What's to stop those scumbags from incorporating and running legal brothels where they can treat their employees poorly?

Imagine a law system with labor protection laws.

 

[entremet]

Prostitution, yes
Trafficking, no

Let the women control the whole exchange safely and there is no need for it to be illegal.

Those against prostitution argue trafficking exists because of the demand for paid sex.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Those against prostitution argue trafficking exists because of the demand for paid sex.

And part of that demand could be caused by it being illegal since it becomes more difficult to find those willing to break the law among the local pool. So they traffic those from the outside who have no other choice.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Those against prostitution argue trafficking exists because of the demand for paid sex.

They aren't entirely wrong. We need to put the infrastructure and regulations in place to make it a proper working environment. Best example I can think of is what goes down in Holland. Get a license, rent a place to do business, and its regulated by the government. It's not perfect but its miles ahead of where we are in the US.

 

[studyguy]

Demand for paid sex is always going to exist.
Trafficking is an inevitable outcome of the demand if it's not met through legal means. The problem comes in when legalized, how does one address the concerns raised by the new industry without fucking it up tremendously on a state level. We can't even get an agreement through on how we should fund women's health or who should use public restrooms in many states.

Likely certain states would turn this into a fucking mess. I'd worry for the safety of the women, but I guess anything is better than the unregulated black market we have that exists now. Idk

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

The existance of legal porn really makes the whole argument against decriminalization a hypocritical fraud. Its legal as long as its for the public's entertainment? Lol okay.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Personally I don't believe it should be illegal. I do think it should be pretty well regulated though because I worry about forcing people to be sex workers including illegal immigrants and the like.

There's probably ways to regulate that to fight groups that force people to be sex workers.

 

[ZackieChan]

Members of the human rights group in Norway and Sweden resigned en masse, saying the organization’s goal should be to end demand for prostitution, not condone it.

I'd expect nothing less from the home of the Struggwich

 

[hobblygobbly]

Haha what? No. By making it legal the police in Germany now has much less options to investigate human trafficking. And forced prostitution is booming in Germany. This absolutely made life worse for prostitutes. Most prostitutes in Germany are not doing this voluntarily, the whole business is still controlled by organised crime. And imo this absolutely warants a ban on prostitution. Of course such a law must be designed in a way to not criminalize the victims, but the perpetrators.

You're not wrong and the law in 2002 did reinforce forced sex work but people working in legal establishments are still protected better than when there is no law (and yes I know that some are not really ""legal"" in its truest sense due to the organised crime). With the last update to the act with enforcing mandatory condoms a lot of brothels adhere to this for example.

There is absolutely organised crime still involved particularly in outright illegal brothels/establishments but the "sex tourists" that come from other parts of Europe and regular customers usually attend the brothels that are well regulated and legal and where women and men are much more protected through regulation than they otherwise would be by having it a legal activity where they at least get social insurance from. Obviously this doesn't exist in the purely illegal establishments, but I was more talking in context of the legal ones (which still aren't perfect). Again I'm not at all saying it's perfect since I have seen it with my own eyes passing by a brothel being raided for illegal activity that occurred (trafficking, underage girls).

I don't have any numbers or anything of how many women truly benefit from regulation and are fine with their work, but I think it's safe to say they are a small amount sadly. My initial post was based on those that benefit entirely in a positive way which admittedly was naive of me.

I haven't been living in Germany for a few years (will be returning home in 2-3 years), so I haven't kept up to date with everything, especially with updates to the law that's being planned so I'll admit I'm not entirely knowledgeable on the subject and situation right now. I feel sex work should be legal and there must be more in place to curb illegal activities (especially the illegal establishments), I think sex work should ultimately be a legal and unstigmatised career.

 

[Chille]

'It's legal to have guns to shoot the fuck out of each other but don't you gals be selling your thing for men to put their thing in, ya hear'!!

We are only selling one type of load in this shop mister

 

[E92 M3]

What's to stop those scumbags from incorporating and running legal brothels where they can treat their employees poorly?

Yeah, sure, but like any legal business the employees can leave. Lots of scumbag business owners out there. I'm sure you can tell the difference between legal and illegal.

 

[Valhelm]

Legalizing prostitution would put a lot of scumbags (pimps/traffickers) out of "work." It should be done.

That's incorrect.

Legalizing prostitution creates a "gold rush" effect, in which mass numbers of women are trafficked into these countries fur the purposes of prostitution.

 

[Speedy Blue Dude]

I don't believe it should be legal. But my answer comes from pure personal morals and religious views, and are also oppressive and hateful ("How bad is your life that you can't do anything else but sell your body to pay the bills? How bad is your life that the only way for you to experience intimacy with another human is to pay them"?) I guess... So I can see I'm in the wrong.

There's no reason it should be legitimately illegal. If we can't support our own people well enough that they have to resort to this to survive, we have bigger problems than continuing to screw people over and getting rid of their options for reviving income. Allow it to be legal but regulate it. Increase harsher punishments for Sex Workers doing it illegally/unregulated, and make those who want to do it receive a "license" that requires regular STD test.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Yeah, sure, but like any legal business the employees can leave. Lots of scumbag business owners out there. I'm sure you can tell the difference between legal and illegal.

Exactly, it's a silly argument. If you're being treated poorly, you report them and get a new job.

 

[E92 M3]

That's incorrect.

Legalizing prostitution creates a "gold rush" effect, in which mass numbers of women are trafficked into these countries fur the purposes of prostitution.

Depends on how it's regulated. Secondly, it's a lot harder to smuggle people into the US due to geographic constraints.