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Sony confirms Crash Bandicoot rights still with Activision

Hexa

Member
The first Crash Kart game on iOS was the top selling game app for several years in a row.

ALSO

Since people STILL apparently don't understand this:

Sony had a publishing contract for Crash 1, 2, Warped, Team Racing, and Bash.

They have no usage rights for them. And while I can't say for SURE, this contract is presumably the reason that when they distribute the games AS IS, the copyright text is the copyright text that is already listed on the games, with Universal Interactive Studios, as the contract would most likely not be altered thereafter.

There were rumors (which were alluded to in an official capacity somewhere, unless I'm remembering totally wrong) that Activision was the reason it couldn't be put out on Vita in NA regions.

Anybody who has REALLY played the first Crash game can look at the Uncharted 4 segments and tell you CONFIDENTLY that it's not the same code, and it's only partially the same art. The physics are different, the crates act differently, it's just NOT Crash 1. It's a convincing approximation but it's NOT emulated, and it's NOT ported, which would IMMEDIATELY disqualify them from saying "Hey, we made this one, it's ours" even if they DID have that level of usage rights, which they DO. NOT. HAVE.

If you need any more evidence, Naughty Dog used exclusively art from Crash 1-TR in their Art book. Art that they own and created (and some by Charles Zembillas and Joe Pearson, who are ALSO credited). They still had to credit Activision for their ownership of Crash Bandicoot.

They are using the Crash Bandicoot LOGO. Nate SAYS the WORDS "Crash Bandicoot".
Regardless of the game content, the logo and name are Activision's IP regardless.

Another example of Activision's full ownership: The
Uncharted 4 segment
uses Crash Bandicoot 1 music. This is ACTUALLY the BEST example of how Activision owns the first several games, now that I think of it: Josh Mancell, the composer of the music for Crash 1 through Team Racing, has been trying to work with a label to release the Crash Bandicoot music on CD and digitally -- he has been unable to because Activision has not been working with him. Sony has told him that they do not own the music or content from the games, as well.

If all the content in the first few games was owned by Sony just because they had the publishing and distribution contract, he wouldn't have to jump through all the hoops to deal with Activision to release music HE WROTE. If it was Sony-owned, they'd have been released by now.

No matter who 'made the content' or whether it's new or not, it's ACTIVISION'S PROPERTY under the current trademarks.

The fact they
are not listed under the Uncharted 4 credits as owning it
is VERY FUCKING SUSPECT when they are listed in the fucking art book, and 10 months ago, Naughty Dog members said
that the fucking segment was IMPOSSIBLE (VERBATIM, mind you), for the very reason that they "didn't own it". The segment is IN THERE NOW. What does that imply to you? What else could people POSSIBLY ascertain from that wording and the resulting segment BEING in the game?

This is a fantastic post. I'm going to expand on it a bit, primarily related to the spoiled portions, so I'm just spoiler tagging everything.

The reason its important to enforce having some sort of trademark message in new works when something is licensed is that it provides an easy defense against naked licencing accusations. Naked licencing essentially means allowing a licencor to use a mark in a new work without exercising any control over said work, and can result in a loss of the mark. This happening is pretty rare, but major corporations aren't known to take chances, and just having a requirement to throw in a "______ is a trademark of _____" when licencing is really simple, so in general it pretty much always a guarantee. Hence, for it to not be there in UC4 with Activision still holding rights would be incredibly bizarre if this is from a third party deal.

Second, what constitutes a new work. Ultimately licencing agreements aren't set in stone and offer an incredible amount of flexibility. We may never know what exactly the full rights are of what Sony owns with the first three Crash games, but based on their comments earlier we can guess that it's pretty limited when it comes to new works. Would Crash in UC4 count as a new work. It's significantly different from the PS1 version in terms of code and even somewhat in terms of content. Could they argue in court that it's the same work? They could... and I guess I can see somewhat of an argument, though I personally think they'd lose. But at the end of the day, none of that matters because as I said, big corporations don't take risks with this stuff when it comes to other big corporations. They always work out some sort of deal beforehand, and said deal should involve crediting Activision.

Lastly, while TESS is updated daily on weekdays, who ultimately own a trademark in the USPTO database at some specified time doesn't necessarily mean that the mark still belongs to them as they just need to file the paperwork within a reasonable time frame. However, Boyes said it still belongs to Activision. But the thing with UC4 is already there. So that would mean that there would have to be some sort of agreement involving licencing leading up to a transfer, but that's also something really strange and something I've never seen before. Plus, it's something they really didn't have to do, as pretty much the only benefit of such a deal would be that Boyes could claim "Activision still owns Crash", which really isn't necessary. Another alternative is that they set the date of transfer to the UC4 release date, but that's been delayed a good amount and agreements such as these are usually more set in stone before hand.

So ultimately, there is definitely something fucky going on with the Crash IP. It could just be a long series of coincidences teasing wise followed by Naughty Dog making a pretty dumb blunder in terms of accreditation for a deal that was supposedly hard to obtain a year before hand, but personally I believe pretty strongly that Crash is coming back.
 

RK128

Member
It always feels like there's some hardcore Nintendo fans out trying to retcon history on social media over the past few years, you even see it here on NeoGAF, always a group of people trying to downplay the success of other games and convince people they only like it because of "nostalgia", that the games were really crap, not good at all, and that (funnily enough) only games like Mario 64, Banjo Kazooie and Conker's Bad Fur Day are the ONLY platformers from that era which were not only good, but the greatest of all time, and if you don't think that, you clearly like bad games and let nostalgia cloud your judgment.

I don't why it's difficult for these kind of people to accept that HEY, people did enjoy those games, they still sell, etc. Yet anytime a Crash thread, or a Sonic thread, or any other platformer type thread appears, they're there shouting about how bad the games were and how only N64 games hold up.

While I don't think this is super common, I do agree this happens often enough to be noticeable. Thankful my Retrospectives (which cover Sonic, Ratchet, Crash and Mega Man so far) didn't have this problem but I do see it.

Shame that is the case but people outside Nintendo can make great platformers. They are just either different or have 'the Nintendo polish' that makes them special from other games. Not better all the time, but different.
 
This is a fantastic post. I'm going to expand on it a bit, primarily related to the spoiled portions, so I'm just spoiler tagging everything.

[post content]

Excellent additions. Yes, I think if you really take a second look at the whole situation, it's pretty clear it's not so simple.
 

NOLA_Gaffer

Banned
It always feels like there's some hardcore Nintendo fans out trying to retcon history on social media over the past few years, you even see it here on NeoGAF, always a group of people trying to downplay the success of other games and convince people they only like it because of "nostalgia", that the games were really crap, not good at all, and that (funnily enough) only games like Mario 64, Banjo Kazooie and Conker's Bad Fur Day are the ONLY platformers from that era which were not only good, but the greatest of all time, and if you don't think that, you clearly like bad games and let nostalgia cloud your judgment.

I don't why it's difficult for these kind of people to accept that HEY, people did enjoy those games, they still sell, etc. Yet anytime a Crash thread, or a Sonic thread, or any other platformer type thread appears, they're there shouting about how bad the games were and how only N64 games hold up.

The Playstation had more great platformers than the Nintendo 64 based on the fact that the Playstation had multiple times more software than the Nintendo 64 period, and I feel like that's a pretty objective statement.
 

SNURB

Member
I REALLY wanna hear how ND implemented the minigame though. Could ND possibly have a hard drive of their Crash art and assets in their archives? It would make sense since everything is in close proximity to the original (minus a few things like Crash's model, the physics, et all) and usually stuff like that is abandoned and lost forever.
 

Eolz

Member
The Playstation had more great platformers than the Nintendo 64 based on the fact that the Playstation had multiple times more software than the Nintendo 64 period, and I feel like that's a pretty objective statement.

Ahahah, come on.
Even if the PS1 had a great library, you know it didn't have more great platformers.
A lot of average doesn't suddenly make them great, it doesn't work like that.
 
I would only be interested in a new Crash if ND were doing it themselves, and with being fresh off of UC4, that seems unlikely.

Contrary to that, I wouldn't have any interest in Crash if ND were making it. They're not the same company who made the original games and I don't think they have any desire to go back to making games like that any more. Sanzaru would be a much better fit, and I wonder whether this is why Sly 5 never happened after Thieves in Time seemed to be pretty successful.
 

Dargor

Member
Hey, has someone made the joke "key word being still..." yet.

Cuz if not, shame on you Gaf been slipping lol
 
The Crash Bandicoot and Sonic franchises are pretty damn similar when you think about it.

The first few games were great to good and then it slid into mediocrity. The difference is that Activision knew when to quit but Sega can't get the message.

Uh Crash had great games after the first 3.

Actiivision also didn't quit, they milked him dry.

I mean "Nostalgia Crash fans" seem to have two tiers, actual fans of the series, and people who likely didn't play any Crash games or only played the first 3 games and then decided the other were trash just because why not?
 
The Playstation had more great platformers than the Nintendo 64 based on the fact that the Playstation had multiple times more software than the Nintendo 64 period, and I feel like that's a pretty objective statement.

I agree with your opinion, but that's the thing, it's an opinion.

ALso in terms of 3D platformers PSX only had like 7-10 more.
 

Spaghetti

Member
That's pretty much what I meant dude?

Sorry to have to go back from another thread and post links that Sony is supporting the game.




Polygon



The escapist

It goes on to talk about what you showed which was the marketing, advertising, promotion. But it sounds like there are others involved as well, and that they could be using Sony's Third party relation production house to facilitate it with Sega.
None of what you quoted is in the ballpark of what you said: "Sony is actually funding the game a decent amount".

The quotes you provided are largely vague, and it's only recently that Sony's role has been fully clarified as assisting marketing and publishing of the PS4 version. Unfortunately the mainstream gaming media loves to publish its own conjecture as fact, so the information isn't widely known.

Sony's Third Party Productions team didn't do anything in regards to YSnet and Shibuya Productions getting the Shenmue licence either, as they shopped it around to Microsoft prior to agreeing the marketing deal with Sony. (Source: Gameblog)

So I say funding, and you automatically think funding development? There are different ways to back/fund projects. Microsoft does it too.
Yes, again, because you said: ""Sony is actually funding the game a decent amount". They aren't. If a small French production company is a larger investor than Sony, you can be sure they aren't putting in a "decent amount". You never elaborated on what type of investment you meant, so it isn't exactly my fault if I misread your meaning either.

Sony kept their distance until it seemed safe to piggyback on the Kickstarter's success, but they're ultimately taking the credit for "bringing Shenmue back" when all they did was facilitate the KS announcement and assist in publishing and marketing the PS4 version. It's a good PR decision, but I can't say I'm thrilled that they keep closely associating themselves with a project they're tangentially involved in.

Also what is with the shitty response with Hi.No? It's like you didn't read the end of my comment where I say it's a lucrative deal for all involved "Publishing wise" Which basically is what Sony, Sega are among others are doing. Sega has probably put some development money to the project, but that I have no clue on just guesses.
Hey, I'm sorry that I was a blunt asshole-

-but, the "Sony is funding Shenmue III" bit is a persistent lie perpetuated by the gaming media because they're largely too lazy to do the appropriate research to piece together the real story, and I'm sick to death of seeing it continued a year later.

Again, sorry I was rude, but the apathy of the mainstream gaming press towards doing their job right has frustrated me to no end.

Also, Sega has no development stake in the game either, and their involvement is also solely providing the licence and as many pre-production materials remaining from the development of the original games. (Source: Gameblog)

What does this mean for Crash? I don't know. It's best not to use the template of Shenmue III or FF7R to guess what Sony are going to do with the series. It's a different arrangement, and Crash has a different meaning to Sony as a company than those either two properties.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
None of what you quoted is in the ballpark of what you said: "Sony is actually funding the game a decent amount".

The quotes you provided are largely vague, and it's only recently that Sony's role has been fully clarified as assisting marketing and publishing of the PS4 version. Unfortunately the mainstream gaming media loves to publish its own conjecture as fact, so the information isn't widely known.

Sony's Third Party Productions team didn't do anything in regards to YSnet and Shibuya Productions getting the Shenmue licence either, as they shopped it around to Microsoft prior to agreeing the marketing deal with Sony. (Source: Gameblog)


Yes, again, because you said: ""Sony is actually funding the game a decent amount". They aren't. If a small French production company is a larger investor than Sony, you can be sure they aren't putting in a "decent amount". You never elaborated on what type of investment you meant, so it isn't exactly my fault if I misread your meaning either.

Sony kept their distance until it seemed safe to piggyback on the Kickstarter's success, but they're ultimately taking the credit for "bringing Shenmue back" when all they did was facilitate the KS announcement and assist in publishing and marketing the PS4 version. It's a good PR decision, but I can't say I'm thrilled that they keep closely associating themselves with a project they're tangentially involved in.


Hey, I'm sorry that I was a blunt asshole-

-but, the "Sony is funding Shenmue III" bit is a persistent lie perpetuated by the gaming media because they're largely too lazy to do the appropriate research to piece together the real story, and I'm sick to death of seeing it continued a year later.

Again, sorry I was rude, but the apathy of the mainstream gaming press towards doing their job right has frustrated me to no end.

Also, Sega has no development stake in the game either, and their involvement is also solely providing the licence and as many pre-production materials remaining from the development of the original games. (Source: Gameblog)

What does this mean for Crash? I don't know. It's best not to use the template of Shenmue III or FF7R to guess what Sony are going to do with the series. It's a different arrangement, and Crash has a different meaning to Sony as a company than those either two properties.

It's all good but my tale end of my original statement literally says publishing. ANd thats why I was a little put off the way you responded. ANd the tweet you put up was the same talk they had last June about involvement and third party productions by SOny is mentioned in one of those articles. Not directly but implied. Also you failed to read where I explained Kickstarter was used to gauge how much money and involvement Sony among others would have with the project.
 
I don't get why these big companies can't just play nice. Is their no goodwill left? ND created this thing, why can't they just give it back because ya know, we each have other hugely successful IP, here's a sign of goodwill.
 

Eolz

Member
I don't get why these big companies can't just play nice. Is their no goodwill left? ND created this thing, why can't they just give it back because ya know, we each have other hugely successful IP, here's a sign of goodwill.

Because IPs are worth money and none of those companies need to give goodwill to the other. They are in a good relationship already.
Unless this post was sarcastic obviously, hard to tell the difference nowadays.
 
I don't get why these big companies can't just play nice. Is their no goodwill left? ND created this thing, why can't they just give it back because ya know, we each have other hugely successful IP, here's a sign of goodwill.

Stock companies cannot have goodwill. It is actually illegal for them by default in many jurisidictions (with different phrasing, typically closer to "stock company has to solely maximize its profit").

That, and there are less extreme methods of "playing nice".
 
I don't get why these big companies can't just play nice. Is their no goodwill left? ND created this thing, why can't they just give it back because ya know, we each have other hugely successful IP, here's a sign of goodwill.

Play nice? What is this? Bernie's America?

And why are so many 'fuck Activision'... they are not doing anything wrong, and most likely they have already worked out a partnership with Sony on this.
 

Aequitas

Member
Play nice? What is this? Bernie's America?

And why are so many 'fuck Activision'... they are not doing anything wrong, and most likely they have already worked out a partnership with Sony on this.

Bernie's America would probably be the best timeline tbh. Maybe we'll get universal health care after Clinton (or Trump ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ) leaves office.

On topic: Sony and Marvel struck a deal for using Spider-Man in Civil War, why can't SIE strike one with Activison?
 
Why are people so beholden to an IP?

Xenosaga shows that where there's a will, there's a way.

Platformers featuring characters aren't in right now, else we'd have an Ape Escape and a Jak and Daxter game. Crash is a relic of the past. Spyro is an action figure franchise. Lara's best game is on mobile, and Jak was last in a mascot fighting game.
 
Why are people so beholden to an IP?

Xenosaga shows that where there's a will, there's a way.

Platformers featuring characters aren't in right now, else we'd have an Ape Escape and a Jak and Daxter game. Crash is a relic of the past. Spyro is an action figure franchise. Lara's best game is on mobile, and Jak was last in a mascot fighting game.

And Ratchet just had a successful, better-than-expected launch.
 
If we're playing semantics, neither is Jak then. Crash 3 is more than half non-platforming levels.

Ratchet is a colorful, mascot platformer shooter.

Ratchet is not semantics, the reason why Insomniac created Ratchet was to get away from games like Spyro which is basically what Crash is outside the open roaming.

At best you can say it's an action platform fused with a TPS mechanics and actions which is still not in the same league as Crash or Spyro. Same with Jak 2 and 3.

Now Jak 1 you may have something but Jak 1 isn't what got the remake treatment.

Instead you should use Sly 4 as an example. Which doesn't show much promise.
 
What is with this smear campaign against 3D platformers not named Mario lately? I'm seeing it from all sides. Sonic should die. Crash has no place and no one wants his return. Ratchet isn't a platformer and never was. What the hell?

I don't see any other genre, no matter how niche get this kind of treatment.
 
Ratchet is not semantics, the reason why Insomniac created Ratchet was to get away from games like Spyro which is basically what Crash is outside the open roaming.

At best you can say it's an action platform fused with a TPS mechanics and actions which is still not in the same league as Crash or Spyro. Same with Jak 2 and 3.

Now Jak 1 you may have something but Jak 1 isn't what got the remake treatment.

Instead you should use Sly 4 as an example. Which doesn't show much promise.

Platforming is the core method of maneuvering and exploration... Ted Price talks about this genre as a whole in the Double Fine "Dev Play" series, and refers to his love for it, and refers to Ratchet inside of it. Also, Sly 4 supposedly did well enough financially, so I don't get why we're going down that road, unless you're speaking subjectively about the quality of it.
Fuck that cliffhanger.
 

SNURB

Member
What is with this smear campaign against 3D platformers not named Mario lately? I'm seeing it from all sides. Sonic should die. Crash has no place and no one wants his return. Ratchet isn't a platformer and never was. What the hell?

I don't see any other genre, no matter how niche get this kind of treatment.

Hey, there's even people who don't even consider Crash a 3D Platformer because it shares some sidescrolling 2D platforming aspects.

Like, what are these people smoking?
 

pixelation

Member
I suggest that all nay-sayers get a bandicoot-ized avatar when its eventually announced that lasts until it (the game) releases... :3
 

SNURB

Member
I don't know if I should bring this up but
did anyone manage to get a good look at the game case of Crash? It's at the second time you play it right?
 
Ahahah, come on.
Even if the PS1 had a great library, you know it didn't have more great platformers.
A lot of average doesn't suddenly make them great, it doesn't work like that.
It really does. Banjo is a collect athon with average level design. Doesn't have any great movement options like mario speed, wall jumps or levels, conker is good but still misses all that as well. Spyro has that, crash has more platforming than most of.them.

N64 has rocket which is just ok imo

Ps2 is the platform king anyways.

Sly, Ratchet, tak

There still isn't really a game with Marios movement and good level design and creativity.. Will there ever be another like it even from Nintendo
 

Spaghetti

Member
It's all good but my tale end of my original statement literally says publishing.
But, again, it is prefaced with:

Sony is actually funding the game a decent amount

Which is inaccurate. The specific wording of the end of your post is:

That Kickatarter money along with Sony's help make the game a more lucrative deal for all involved publishing wise.

You never make the distinction of Sony as a publishing partner, and combined with the start of your post, you can understand the confusion.

ANd the tweet you put up was the same talk they had last June about involvement and third party productions by SOny is mentioned in one of those articles. Not directly but implied.
Actually, that tweet is probably the first time Shibuya Productions has been named as a specifically larger contributor than other parties. It's a shame that YSnet and Shibuya Productions were badgered enough into revealing financial information they didn't really have to because of gaming press conjecture, but now we know, with certainty, that Sony are not a large player in the production of Shenmue III.

I'm not sure in what context you're referring to Third Party Productions here. It's a fact that a Shenmue III deal was brokered between YSnet, Shibuya Productions, and SEGA before Sony ever became involved. Sony's TPP is of course involved now, but they're involved in many titles, coming from large studios, to small developers, and they're not funding development of those either. I don't know what we're arguing here.

Also you failed to read where I explained Kickstarter was used to gauge how much money and involvement Sony among others would have with the project.
I read it, but it isn't true. It's kinda obvious by now that despite a triple record breaking Kickstarter, Sony are still going to ride on the "We brought it back" lie, and not put their money where their mouth is.

Shenmue III is entirely in the hands of the fans and the developers. It's a good thing the series has one of the most dedicated fanbases of all time, and the development is being headed by a seasoned gaming legend.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
But, again, it is prefaced with:



Which is inaccurate. The specific wording of the end of your post is:



You never make the distinction of Sony as a publishing partner, and combined with the start of your post, you can understand the confusion.


Actually, that tweet is probably the first time Shibuya Productions has been named as a specifically larger contributor than other parties. It's a shame that YSnet and Shibuya Productions were badgered enough into revealing financial information they didn't really have to because of gaming press conjecture, but now we know, with certainty, that Sony are not a large player in the production of Shenmue III.

I'm not sure in what context you're referring to Third Party Productions here. It's a fact that a Shenmue III deal was brokered between YSnet, Shibuya Productions, and SEGA before Sony ever became involved. Sony's TPP is of course involved now, but they're involved in many titles, coming from large studios, to small developers, and they're not funding development of those either. I don't know what we're arguing here.


I read it, but it isn't true. It's kinda obvious by now that despite a triple record breaking Kickstarter, Sony are still going to ride on the "We brought it back" lie, and not put their money where their mouth is.

Shenmue III is entirely in the hands of the fans and the developers. It's a good thing the series has one of the most dedicated fanbases of all time, and the development is being headed by a seasoned gaming legend.

I'm done, because you seem incapable of understanding that funding a project doesn't always mean funding development. It means paying for certain aspects of a game project period. And Sony must be a big enough contributor for PR, advertising, show promotions, and their "Third Party Relations group" which you seem to know nothing about to have it exclusive.

It's the same group used for the Port of Street Fighter 4 ultimate on PS4 when they had a deal with Capcom. If you had read any of the articles it clearly states the involvement of Sega for licensing, and use of assets from SHenmue 1-2.

If you had also done more research from reputable sources outside of a fucking tweet, you would know there have been many articles that all say the same thing in terms of Snet and Shibuya Productions involvement as in it's their baby with other partners such as Sega+ Sony lending money and assets on a publishing level. I bet Sony is using their Third party Production Group to facilitate publishing for this game.

And the fact you don't understand my last sentence talking about all publishers involved which means, Sega, Sony and who ever else there is that's not known at this time.

Their investment in (and support of) Shenmue have helped to realize a sequel that will stand proud with its predecessors. While it is not business practice to discuss the specific details of such arrangements, I can say that with their assistance on the production and marketing end, and in Sony's case with some publishing support as well, Ys Net is able to use more of the money we collect through Kickstarter purely for Shenmue 3's development. It is also important to note that your funds are going strictly to Ys Net for development of Shenmue 3 — Sony and Shibuya Productions are not seeing a cent of your Kickstarter dollars."

Polygon
 
I agree with the above that even if Sony isn't funding development, funding any part of the production at all should pretty much just be called funding the game. Whether they're paying for actual dev or paying for marketing, they're still putting their hands in the pie.

Crash is coming you guys, when they announce it at E3 we will see it had been obvious all this time.

It certainly feels obvious to me.
 

SNURB

Member
The Crow eating thread will be fantastic. One way or the other.

I believe!

It's funny that after FF7 Remake, TLG, & Shenmue 3 all got announced last year that people want to dismiss a Crash reboot as ridiculous and impossible despite all of the hints from insiders and Sony themselves. So funny.
 
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