• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Spider-Man graphics downgrade?

itsjustJEFF said:
Because it doesn't fit the narrative they're trying to sell you. God of War, Horizon, and Detroit were all hit with "downgraded graphics" claims before they released. Nothing came of those after they released, at least not that I know of... except maybe Detroit? Some people are still fighting the "console war" you can't like one without hating the other.
Click to expand...


See, this is why I want to see Digital Foundry to a proper analysis. God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn already proved PS4 delivered on the graphics. Nobody got their hands on the actual game to make a proper judgement.
 
[Not a] Statement from Insomniac games:
"Thanks to modern technology we are able to build an authentic play-world, driven by player interaction. This interaction is even connected to your real world via a social media API.
In summary, the puddles in Spiderman environments have been programmed to be inversely proportional to the amount of tears cried about the game.
We may extend this technology to set draw-distance, LODding, AI and other factors automatically.
Not happy about the frame-rate?
Cry more."
 
There is zero chance it'll look anything like the E3 stuff. That was on a high end PC as usual. It was bound to get some drop.
 
Games always undergo optimization, resulting in trade offs later in their dev cycle.

ThatOneGrunt said:
I can't think of any Valve bullshots. or 2K. Has Nintendo? Hell did Microsoft ever release a bullshot for one of it's first party titles?
Click to expand...

Valve made compromises to their new Source version to allow HL2:E1 to scale better in slower hardware. IIRC, not all of the features advertised regarding lighting made the cut initially.

MS has also released target renders passing as in-game graphics as far back as Halo 2 on the original Xbox. I also remember reading complaints about 4 and Reach online. Of course, back then people just understood that those things happen and moved on.
People didn't seem so invested in console wars back then.
 
Last edited:
Mercer_CAR said:
I don't care what these Devs say, there is a graphical downgrade

Click to expand...


For what it's worth, cutscenes are always a really terrible benchmark for graphical comparisons. Many outlets make this mistake (including in comparisons between different consoles), i.e. definitely when there's pre-rendering involved there's very little disparity & it's not a good standard to judge a game's visuals on. It's the in-game gameplay which matters. Panning the camera around, fast movement, combat etc. which reveals framerate, aliasing, texture detail, reflections etc.
 
itsjustJEFF said:
Okay, fair point. So now let me ask you this... does Insomniac, and the press, think we consumers are SO STUPID and so easily manipulated that they can just say "there is no downgrade" in the face of those screenshots? If your answer is yes, then they are so brazen that they are willing to possibly alienate their audience just a week out from release. The same audience, that in a week, will have the game in their hands and be able to pick it apart themselves... If they are doing that to OUR faces then this could be one of the last games Insomniac every releases, cause I don't know who would every believe them ever again.
Click to expand...
It wouldn't be the first time the gaming press says "the gamers are wrong, we are right" about something ridiculous and lots of people will still side with them to get that illusion of having the higher ground. Insomniac probably knows this and they are happy to play along, I don't think it's a smart move though.
 
This controversy about something as irrelevant as graphical downgrades is wasted effort that could have gone to better causes, like social issue outrages or holding Ubisoft accountable for the lack of political statements in Far Cry 5. Shameful.

Anyone pointing this out or not satisfied by the game's final look should be relentlessly mocked and their concerns dismissed, no matter whether they are presented as whining rants or calm comments.
 
Last edited:
Digital Foundry will go into detail explaining the scene in detail. Hopefully people will move on from this, but I think there's going to be a lot of people saying, "I told you so" a few days after the video is released next week.
 
MP! said:
you want frames or puddles? you can't have both.
This is part of optimization folks.

My question is why there was so much water inside a building to begin with
Click to expand...

Have you ever been in a building that is open and under construction? I was shocked when we built our new house and got hit with some rain. The whole bottom floor was a swimming pool. Upstairs also had some spots. Granted it was nothing but concrete and wood but just small window openings allowed a bunch of water in. If a building like in the screenshot had that much open it wouldn't shock me to see that many puddles.
 
ThatOneGrunt said:
Mission accomplished?

You're not bothered by that? He's flying in the air.
Click to expand...
lol no, I'm not bothered by the superhero videogame character giving the player the ability to grab and fling things while staying still enough to make it possible. I just think it's a strange thing to notice and be nitpicky about and it's something you'd only notice from staring at a gif. If you were playing the game, the thought would never even enter your mind.

Batman's flight cape never would have actually worked, either.
 
So instead of using their time and money to actually make the product they promised, they decide to announce DLC before the game's even out.
 
phil_t98 said:
agreed but they don't get defended as much as this game has, Spiderman will still be a great game though
Click to expand...
John Linneman from DF posted on resetera and his comments and he agrees that there's no downgrade in the two scenes that are being discussed.
 
AprXSihezIII said:
Then the target shouldve of been 30 from the start. Not pretty slideshows that have been passed though samsungs motion plus filter.
Click to expand...

You're banned, but I'm going to respond anyway. At an early showing of a game, it's essentially impossible to know exactly what you're going to end up with. Not everything is coded, and not everything is running that will be running when the game is launched. For example, what if explosion physics and lighting have not even been implemented yet, but you are asked to present a trailer two years in advance. What if AI isn't complete? Well, you fake it all. You do your best job, maybe put some characters on Scripts, xcetera. Or maybe you have a lightning engine in there that's so power hungry that once you implement explosion physics later on you need to cut one or the other to hit your FPS.

now, given that you have no way to know exactly what's going to be in the game and exactly how it's going to look, it makes sense just to make it look great for a preview. You sure as hell wouldn't want to make it look like s*** for the preview, since people will latch on to that and rag on your game for 2 years. sure, you might not hit every single goal, but I would think that most people are mature enough to understand a preview is not the final release. Some things will look worse. But lots of things will work better.
 
Last edited:
DForce said:
John Linneman from DF posted on resetera and his comments and he agrees that there's no downgrade in the two scenes that are being discussed.
Click to expand...

There clearly has been a downgrade in some scenes, no matter how people try and spin it. The movement of the sun has caused a reduction of specular highlights, shaders, texture quality and AO?
 
Last edited:
CJY said:
I take your point about the reflection being downgraded. But they were always screen-space reflections in spider-man, something that the PS4 is eminently capable of, regardless of what NV showed off
Click to expand...
Yeah... He don't have Spiderman on his console, so, yeah...
 
Vtecomega said:
There clearly has been a downgrade in some scenes, no matter how people try and spin it. The movement of the sun has caused a reduction of specular highlights, shaders, texture quality and AO?
Click to expand...

They said months ago that they were going to reduce the highlights because it was too bright.

That is not considered a downgrade. Things such as AO is going to be reduced because of the scene is lighter.

Looks like you're just throwing stuff even though you don't know what you're talking about. This is why DF will make a video because people don't understand what's going on.
 
I'm not going to sit here and debate this topic.

People just need to wait for the DF video because they know more than most people who are debating this topic.
 
DForce said:
They said months ago that they were going to reduce the highlights because it was too bright.

That is not considered a downgrade. Things such as AO is going to be reduced because of the scene is lighter.

Looks like you're just throwing stuff even though you don't know what you're talking about. This is why DF will make a video because people don't understand what's going on.
Click to expand...


so what about shadow quality and reflection quality? that has nothing to do with scene being lighter
 
Unless we have side by side uncompressed 4k footage of identical sequences, this is all conjecture. Promo screenshots aren't representative of anything.
 
MrTickles said:
Unless we have side by side uncompressed 4k footage of identical sequences, this is all conjecture. Promo screenshots aren't representative of anything.
Click to expand...

I get what your saying but can't you see from the two screenshots side by side any differences whatsoever?
 
Frank Spencer said:
Knew it was a good idea to wait for PS Plus around 2020. :pie_moneyface:
Click to expand...

That is quite a bit of exaggeration/over reaction IMHO even if the massive downgrades were true, but you are entitled to it of course.

Still more restrained and self aware than the Dreams thread comment "game is boring and shite... and still no release date either".
 
Adry9 said:
It wouldn't be the first time the gaming press says "the gamers are wrong, we are right" about something ridiculous and lots of people will still side with them to get that illusion of having the higher ground. Insomniac probably knows this and they are happy to play along, I don't think it's a smart move though.
Click to expand...

Do you have examples of these times? I don't think you read my post. You're saying that Insomniac is knowingly, along with the press, deceive us in front of evidence 1 week away from launch... at which time we'll have the game in hand and be able to ROAST them alive If that were the case.
 
Panajev2001a said:
That is quite a bit of exaggeration/over reaction IMHO even if the massive downgrades were true, but you are entitled to it of course.

Still more restrained and self aware than the Dreams thread comment "game is boring and shite... and still no release date either".
Click to expand...

I was never going to buy this game at least at full price however my post was really about the hope of it coming to PS Plus one day.

I explained my reasoning for that Dreams comment. Oh and I never said I thought it was shite. Learn to read. Stalker.
 
tommyleelynn said:
The "press" already has review copies of the game.
Click to expand...
Yes. What's your point?

itsjustJEFF said:
Do you have examples of these times? I don't think you read my post. You're saying that Insomniac is knowingly, along with the press, deceive us in front of evidence 1 week away from launch... at which time we'll have the game in hand and be able to ROAST them alive If that were the case.
Click to expand...
A example of the press siding with pubs against gamers? Did you miss the entire GG? And I don't think we need to wait one week for that, there's already plenty of comparisons that show a clear downgrade.

Also, I don't know exactly what you mean by "ROAST them alive", but it sounds a bit too dramatic for this situation.
 
Adry9 said:
A example of the press siding with pubs against gamers? Did you miss the entire GG? And I don't think we need to wait one week for that, there's already plenty of comparisons that show a clear downgrade.

Also, I don't know exactly what you mean by "ROAST them alive", but it sounds a bit too dramatic for this situation.
Click to expand...

What is the entire GG?
Also, you don't wanna wait for the game to release and judge it by yourself and have a definitive answer?
 
Last edited:
Gradly said:
What is the entire GG?
Also, you don't wanna wait for the game to release and judge it by yourself and have a definitive answer?
Click to expand...
Gamer-Gate.

I'll play the game eventually, but from what we've seen in the latest materials I think there's very clear evidence.
 
I'm surprised no one posted the Uncharted 3 comparison picture yet.

I don't see a big enough difference to think the game has been downgraded. The suit design has changed a bit (different colors), but I can't say if that's for the better or worse without having played and seen the suit in action yet.
 
TimFL said:
I'm surprised no one posted the Uncharted 3 comparison picture yet.

I don't see a big enough difference to think the game has been downgraded. The suit design has changed a bit (different colors), but I can't say if that's for the better or worse without having played and seen the suit in action yet.
Click to expand...

reflections downgraded shadow quality?
 
Frank Spencer said:
I was never going to buy this game at least at full price however my post was really about the hope of it coming to PS Plus one day.

I explained my reasoning for that Dreams comment. Oh and I never said I thought it was shite. Learn to read. Stalker.
Click to expand...

It was you? 😂 sorry if it felt like I were stalking you, but I genuinely did not know it was you, your post here just brought the other post to mind.
 
Adry9 said:
Gamer-Gate.

I'll play the game eventually, but from what we've seen in the latest materials I think there's very clear evidence.
Click to expand...

I haven't come across any comparison that does show downgrade under the SAME lighting condition because lighting makes all the difference, anyhow, I don't remember any downgrade was in Insomniac's latest console exclusive games Ratchet and Clank or in Sunset Overdrive or in the latest Sony exclusives like God of War or Uncharted 4 or Horizon or Gran Turismo or even the old Driveclub all that came similar or maybe better than the reveal gameplay

A ton of gameplay and walkthroughs will be on Youtube in a few days and people will see and decide for themselves
 
Still looks good. Also the game is still in development and if they really downgraded it, which happens in game development, it was probably for a good reason.
 
phil_t98 said:
so what about shadow quality and reflection quality? that has nothing to do with scene being lighter
Click to expand...

Reflection quality has not changed, but they way they reflect has. If you compare both videos, you can see they're not reflecting the same spot. Do you think the shadows are going to appear lighter when the scene is lighter?

This is why we need digital foundry because people are just throwing around the word downgrade whenever they see change.
 
DForce said:
Reflection quality has not changed, but they way they reflect has. If you compare both videos, you can see they're not reflecting the same spot. Do you think the shadows are going to appear lighter when the scene is lighter?

This is why we need digital foundry because people are just throwing around the word downgrade whenever they see change.
Click to expand...

look at the shadow on the building in the background, same position of shadow as the first pic, no staircase in the shadow just a blurry mess and less defend. Even if the shadow is light the detail should be there, sun is in the same position as the shadow in exactly the same place, shows on the left by the yellow pipe have dissapeard when they still should be there and reflection quality has definitely dropped in the puddles, this in no way effect gameplay and will still be a great game but you can see where they have scaled back
 
phil_t98 said:
look at the shadow on the building in the background, same position of shadow as the first pic, no staircase in the shadow just a blurry mess and less defend. Even if the shadow is light the detail should be there, sun is in the same position as the shadow in exactly the same place, shows on the left by the yellow pipe have dissapeard when they still should be there and reflection quality has definitely dropped in the puddles, this in no way effect gameplay and will still be a great game but you can see where they have scaled back
Click to expand...

Why can't that one be the base PS4, and others the Pro?

It is not unheard of to have greater shadow detail and SSR in one over the other. This is why we wait for the final game, and see what the differences are between the two machines.
 
DeepEnigma said:
Why can't that one be the base PS4, and others the Pro?

It is not unheard of to have greater shadow detail and SSR in one over the other. This is why we wait for the final game, and see what the differences are between the two machines.
Click to expand...
if you read my posts I said it could possibly be this also
 
phil_t98 said:
look at the shadow on the building in the background, same position of shadow as the first pic, no staircase in the shadow just a blurry mess and less defend. Even if the shadow is light the detail should be there, sun is in the same position as the shadow in exactly the same place, shows on the left by the yellow pipe have dissapeard when they still should be there and reflection quality has definitely dropped in the puddles, this in no way effect gameplay and will still be a great game but you can see where they have scaled back
Click to expand...

I told you that the reflections from 2017 has changed in 2018, which you actually look at both videos instead of comparing two screenshots. You basically ignored this and repeated most of what you said earlier. DF video will be shown on Tuesday and lets see if you're here when that happens.
 
I've peeked at the videos again and the major change seems to be global illumination. Too much focus on assets and not enough on how they're lit. That's why the transparency on the hair, eyelashes and eyebrows(I'm splitting hairs now) changed. Probably from the GI. From what I can see, the outside looks better, but there are some tradeoffs indoors where the solution can't reach and you get an odd accumulation of "darkness". Example:
The buildings look better to me. More correctly lit.
buildings.jpg
Click to expand...
Some parts of the indoor scenes look weird though. Darkness accumulates in corners, and NPCs and objects are oddly illuminated.
caf1.jpg
Click to expand...

caf2.jpg
Click to expand...

Could just be a tradeoff of the lighting scheme. Spider-Man is more about the city and buildings than the cafeteria, although some NPCs are oddly lit. It's a decent trade for visibility and nobody knows how much that might have impacted gameplay. Just my two cents, I loved Sunset Overdrive, so no hate towards Insomniac.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Can we get remasters of the PS1 Spider-Man games?
2
61
1K
VulcanRaven replied
Spider-Man model appears to tease new PlayStation game in now-deleted post
Rumor  2
72
1K
Mr. PlayStation replied
RTTP Spiderman 2: Why are the Graphics So Bad?
Opinion 
32
450
Fake replied
What is happening to consumer Graphics Cards?
26
368
existensmaximum replied
Why Fidelity is Ruining Graphics
47
1K
IAmRei replied
Top Bottom