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[Zelent]

But there have been multiple massive changes in FPSes.
Like there's is a huge difference between Doom-clones and Half-life. It was a mind blowing experience.
Similarly it was huge when Counter-Strike came out, when everyone was used to fast twitchy arena shooter multiplayer of Quake and Unreal. Or playing Call of Duty single player when it first came out, that cinematic on-rails experience was something new and fresh.

And every time there's a big jump, it is followed up by an army of copy-cats.
Even playing a battle-royale for the first time with a squad of friends is mind blowing experience compared to counter-strike or team fortress.
And even within battle-royales, there's quite a bit of difference between PUBG, Fortnite and Apex.

But there are no big-jumps in JRPGs, the turn-based battle systems are as shallow and dumb as they were 30 years ago on NES.
The basic item systems, loot systems are as bare bones as ever.

There are very few if any big "wow" moments.

The biggest "wow" moment in JRPGs for me basically was "wow, finally after 30 years seems like random encounters are gone".


There have been past JRPGs that didn't have "random encounters" in classical sense, but those games were more of an exception.

Nowadays not having random encounters is the norm.
Like I can play DQ XI without fighting randoms, but just the bosses.
I can play XC2 with disabled enemy aggro and just fighting bosses and specials.

And not having to do hundreds of random filler battles makes these games so much better.
It really did take 30 years for Japanese to figure it out and for it to become a norm.

Maybe it will take 30 more years before Japanese figure out that the basic turn-based combat is brainless and boring,
and start to come up with new ideas like XC2 tries to do.

Sorry... but this is a really bad take.

Based on what you described, FFXV should have been one of these "big-jump" JRPGs. It removed the turn-based battle system for a very active one, there are no random battles, and it features an open-world environment.
And you know what... I consider FFXV not only the worst Final Fantasy, but also one of the most boring and unsatisfying JRPGs I've played my entire life.
Your tastes in gaming does not reflect the majority of RPG players. If the Final Fantasy franchise is going to ever recover, it needs to go back to its roots.

 

[RealGassy]

Sorry... but this is a really bad take.

Based on what you described, FFXV should have been one of these "big-jump" JRPGs. It removed the turn-based battle system for a very active one, there are no random battles, and it features an open-world environment.
And you know what... I consider FFXV not only the worst Final Fantasy, but also one of the most boring and unsatisfying JRPGs I've played my entire life.
Your tastes in gaming does not reflect the majority of RPG players. If the Final Fantasy franchise is going to ever recover, it needs to go back to its roots.

FFXV sucking has nothing to do with what I said.
I don't expect Square Enix to make a good JRPG. It's just not going to happen.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

But there have been multiple massive changes in FPSes.
Like there's is a huge difference between Doom-clones and Half-life. It was a mind blowing experience.
Similarly it was huge when Counter-Strike came out, when everyone was used to fast twitchy arena shooter multiplayer of Quake and Unreal. Or playing Call of Duty single player when it first came out, that cinematic on-rails experience was something new and fresh.

And every time there's a big jump, it is followed up by an army of copy-cats.
Even playing a battle-royale for the first time with a squad of friends is mind blowing experience compared to counter-strike or team fortress.
And even within battle-royales, there's quite a bit of difference between PUBG, Fortnite and Apex.

But there are no big-jumps in JRPGs, the turn-based battle systems are as shallow and dumb as they were 30 years ago on NES.
The basic item systems, loot systems are as bare bones as ever.

There are very few if any big "wow" moments.

The biggest "wow" moment in JRPGs for me basically was "wow, finally after 30 years seems like random encounters are gone".


There have been past JRPGs that didn't have "random encounters" in classical sense, but those games were more of an exception.

Nowadays not having random encounters is the norm.
Like I can play DQ XI without fighting randoms, but just the bosses.
I can play XC2 with disabled enemy aggro and just fighting bosses and specials.

And not having to do hundreds of random filler battles makes these games so much better.
It really did take 30 years for Japanese to figure it out and for it to become a norm.

Maybe it will take 30 more years before Japanese figure out that the basic turn-based combat is brainless and boring,
and start to come up with new ideas like XC2 tries to do.

I see. Fair enough. I feel the over abundance of FPS I played from so many developers on multiple platforms during the years made them feel and look homogenized to me. Yeah, the titles that introduce something new are followed by a plethora of copycats.

I actually find strategy in most turn based JRPGS. Going from Shadow Hearts: Covenant, FF10-2, Parasite Eve, Last Remnant, Lost Odyssey, FF12, Dragon Quest 11, Vagrant Story, Persona 5 and FF13 feel like entirely different to me. I do understand what you mean though.

As you said, there are a multitude of copycats which can make any genre feel stagnated. Then again, when RPG’s go the action route, imo sometimes they feel “off” or like glorified or watered down action games.

 

[Zelent]

FFXV sucking has nothing to do with what I said.
I don't expect Square Enix to make a good JRPG. It's just not going to happen.

I think Square has the potential to make an amazing Final Fantasy. They have just been chasing the wrong carrot lately, trying too hard to differentiate their new games from what the made the old ones classics.
DQ 11 was very well done.
The release of Octopath Traveler is also a good sign.

 

[FMXVII]

It being one-to-one exactly like it was 30 years ago is one of the main reasons why it's so bad.
It's a battle system from a friggin NES game.
That's not a compliment.

JRPGs basically carbon-copying the same trite thing over and over again is one of the main reasons why they are so shit and "nobody likes them"
outside of maybe an odd Persona, XC2 and Pokemon game or something.

DQ having bunch of RNG in it, and having to trial and error to figure out and eyeball success rates of various spells isn't "strategic" or "deep".
Moreover it isn't necessary when playing on normal, evading all randoms and just fighting the bosses.

Because nothing good ever came of a NES game.

Nope.

No nuance whatsoever.

I friggin' LOVE DQ's battle system.

I am pretty certain I am not the only "nobody".

Also: I LIKE tactical battles.

Even if they are "easier to beat" than your hyperbole.

The only thing "SHIT", in your post, is your post.

 

[cireza]

Your tastes in gaming does not reflect the majority of RPG players.

Final Fantasy XV had already sold more than 8 million copies more than a year ago, so who is the minority ? The few vocal people saying how the game is shit on the internet, or the other 8 million that simply played it and enjoyed and don't need to debate about it ?

I greatly disliked Zelda BotW and stated why a few times, in the "controversial opinion thread" for example. I am done, and I am good with this. The game sold 16 millions copies, if it is not for me, I will play something else and let people have what they like. That's it.

Reminder of the very first screen when booting the game :

 

[Shin]

If nothing else, I'd love to see Yoshitaka Amano return to do character designs. When playing the SNES FF games, I'd imagine the world looking similar to his illustrations. I've seen enough belt buckles and pristine Fabergé architecture for one life time.

His drawing of model Lindsey Wixson (among a few other artists that Vogue Italy asked to do an cover art).

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I think they already are doing this. Bravely series, Octopath Traveller, Final Fantasy Explorers, FF: Crisis Core, FF: Type 0, Dragon Quest IX and XI, to say nothing of all the great ports and remakes they've been putting out over the past ~10 years.

Square Enix has more-or-less remained the very same Square Enix of the 80s and 90s that everyone pines for... on the handheld line of systems. Between the DS, PSP, and 3DS you have just as many excellent "classic" SE titles as the golden years, in my opinion.

 

[Bigrx1]

Being turn-based doesn't automatically make it deeper.
FFX requires exactly 5 braincells to play.

All 5 of my braincells loved the FFX battle system.

 

[Bigrx1]

I miss the games having an actual world that felt like a world, an overworld that was a big sphere and gave you some sense of HERE IS THE WORLD. FFIV-IX had this I think and then it just went away unless it exists in XII or XV which I haven't played. FFXIV same way just feels like a bunch of random zones and not like a true WORLD.

 

[Rat Rage]

Square should look back and see themselves in the ps1 era.

Brave Fencer Musashi, Final Fantasy Tactics, Vagrant Story, Threads of Fate, Xenogears, Chocobo's Dungeon 2...and Final Fantasy!!

Square was one hell of a developer, taking risks, creating awesome and unique games...now its just final fantasy, no innovation nor risks...

It would also help if Square would make fucking JRPGs with classical turn based combat again, you know, the exact genre they always were best at making as well as helped making super popular in the west, as opposed to continue making generic charcter action games.

Just look at what the Enix side of SquareEnix is doing. They've just had great success with Dragon Quest 11 - and that is one of the most claccial JRPGs with turn based combat ever.

If Square still wants to try to be "cool" and "western" by making character action games, they should invent NEW ips and not use their most famous "Final Fantasy" brand for that.

 

[cireza]

FFX had a great battle system, but otherwise there isn't so much to take inspiration from in older FF games. They are all a mess of unbalanced difficulty and broken mechanics. They actually improved quite a bit on this topic in FF XIII and XV.

 

[E.T. Waifu]

whoever dares shitting on FFX will get choked by me deadass

Anyway, I think SE is still able to make great games, or at least ideas. The problem lies in the fact that the higher ups are pushing the teams to focus mostly on graphics and animations, and unfortunately, those are very expensive and time consuming. This is why FFXIII and FFXV are beautiful but they are clearly missing a lot of what FF should be. FFVII Remake looks amazing, the demo definitely shows how talented they are and not just that, the game seems to be great gameplay-wise, too! But are they able to maintain that quality for the entire game? That's what worries me.

 

[RE2_Apocalypse]

I LOL at all these gaf'ers saying FFX is overrated, lol. Don't make me laugh. Is it simple to play? Sure, but no where does that not make it one of the greatest FF games out there.

Shadowbringers was incredible as well. Jesus, any self-proclaimed FF fan has to play this or lose that damn title.

I personally love the changes SE makes most of the time, and enjoyed XV. I always have my old games to play and currently replaying 7 in anticipation for 7remake.

Personally as well. I have they make XVI different as well. That what brings new experiences to the table and keeps things somewhat fresh. If I want old games, I will play them along with game like Bravely Default that keep old trends going =D

 

[Deleted member 774430]

I don't care about FF since XII, but that said i'm happy with other things at Square Enix right now

Dragon Quest XI is very much the classical big budget JRPG you wish FF would be;

Team Asano (Bravely Default, Octopath Traveler) is getting bigger and Square is willing to invest in this team for AA type of RPGs.

Also the resurgence of the Mana series has been great and i hope they keep investing more in that franchise.

Square Enix has other issues for me:

1) So much money wasted.
Luminous Productions posted an insane loss 1-2 year ago of like 33 mln dollars, they invested on stuff like the engine they may never use again; Honestly they should have pulled the plug on XV earlier.

They had Studio Istolia, run by Hideo Baba (who worked for many years on the Tales games), in 2 years that studio did not release a single game and ultimately they shutted down. I don't know what happened there but that's sounds like a bad investment to me.

Dubious games that somehow made the release like The Quiet Man and Left Alive.

2) The management of their western games.

They kept investing into Tomb Raider probably considering the magnitude of the IP but all the recent games have been meh or just okay to me.

On the other hand they had Sleeping Dogs, Square Enix's own GTA, one of my favourite games of all time, and they destroyed not even understanding its potential.

Now they have Avengers on which they have very high expectations.

3) Tokyo RPG Factory can't find a way to make good games.

They're just too low budget probably, Oninaki was their best attempt so far.

 

[EDMIX]

It would also help if Square would make fucking JRPGs with classical turn based combat again, you know, the exact genre they always were best at making as well as helped making super popular in the west, as opposed to continue making generic charcter action games.

Just look at what the Enix side of SquareEnix is doing. They've just had great success with Dragon Quest 11 - and that is one of the most claccial JRPGs with turn based combat ever.

If Square still wants to try to be "cool" and "western" by making character action games, they should invent NEW ips and not use their most famous "Final Fantasy" brand for that.

They do, you just don't pay attention.

I don't understand this concept of asking for something, then ignoring when its happening right in front of you. They've been doing that for years BEFORE DQ11...

So you know what I think? I think Square is wondering why folks are asking for something they are also neglecting to even support...to them, you guys don't like turned based cause you don't even buy those games in huge numbers compared to let say KH series or FFXV etc

Many ignored much of what I listed (besides clearly FFVII remake) in hopes of just Square making a AAA turned based game, not realizing NOT SUPPORTING THOSE GAMES IS WHY THEY ARE NOT MAKING MANY AAA TURNED BASED GAMES! Did you folks really not realize that?

Why should they spend money on a AAA turned based on when you are not even buying then ones they put out? It tells Square that such a market is small and needs not so much resources put into like other AAA titles and I actually agree with that. When I hear someone say something like if they would make turn based combat "again", it tells me they don't even REALLY play that genre if they are asking for something that already exist.


Soooooo as someone that plays turned based games, like ACTUALLY PLAYS THEM, I played Octopath, I played World Of Final Fantasy and I'm buying the new Bravely Default on Switch.... How can I ask Square to do something they are already doing currently? It tells me you simply are unaware of those titles existing if you are even asking for something that already exist in the first place. Support those turn based games NOW if you really want to see more in the future.

If you didn't know about those games existing at all...apologies, but you have no excuse to not support something you are also asking someone else to create.

 

[Azelover]

I agree they should look at the older games, but please not FFX. That's the most overrated game in the series.

I'd rather FFXVI be closer to Octopath Traveler than FFXV.

Still, have you played FFXIV? Get over it technically being an MMO, and just play it like a offline game. It's a fantastic FF game with an overall story (with expansions) better than any other FF game.

I'll take it.

 

[E.T. Waifu]

I LOL at all these gaf'ers saying FFX is overrated, lol. Don't make me laugh. Is it simple to play? Sure, but no where does that not make it one of the greatest FF games out there.

Shadowbringers was incredible as well. Jesus, any self-proclaimed FF fan has to play this or lose that damn title.

I personally love the changes SE makes most of the time, and enjoyed XV. I always have my old games to play and currently replaying 7 in anticipation for 7remake.

Personally as well. I have they make XVI different as well. That what brings new experiences to the table and keeps things somewhat fresh. If I want old games, I will play them along with game like Bravely Default that keep old trends going =D

Shadowbringers is insane. I mean, yeah, you do have to play a full game and two expansions to enjoy it properly(and play it begin with), but man, it's so worth it. I can't tell you how many chills I got from literally anything in that expansion. It was different from the rest of the game and they have just made it so good!