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[Spuck-uk]

I think the only winning move, really, is for them to never actually 'release' the game. The moent you announce a proper 1.0, people can no longer pretend that it's going to fulfil all these impossible dreams. Until then you can coast along with adding new features, selling more ships, making more money, so why actually release it and take the well deserved flack?

 

[SighFight]

Seriously. Let's worry about the facial expression tracking after we can drive rovers up ramps 100% of the time.

This should be printed in huge letters to be hung on every wall in their offices!

 

[Panajev2001a]

I think the only winning move, really, is for them to never actually 'release' the game. The moent you announce a proper 1.0, people can no longer pretend that it's going to fulfil all these impossible dreams. Until then you can coast along with adding new features, selling more ships, making more money, so why actually release it and take the well deserved flack?

This would mean they are effectively monetising game development itself...

 

[Spuck-uk]

This would mean they are effectively monetising game development itself...

I would happily call Roberts a genius at that point.

 

[Pepboy]

I just quoted the webpage and they did explain that.



Even as such it doesn't change the fact the package they were talking about is not one ship but 10 separate ships and one Rover. As also quoted, this is only for development of game, ships will not be sold once game exits beta per CiG.

Regarding your last comment, that's not necessarily true. IIRC, what they technically said was something like "these ships won't be sold after the game exits beta".

But that still allows for:

1. New ships (not yet revealed) to be sold or pre-ordered.

2. New content or expansion packs that can be pre-ordered and which come bundled with ships.

3. For them to renege on their claim, stating that this comment was "made so early in development" and "so much changes during development" and "ultimately these sales help us generate a lot of new content that benefits all players", etc.

At the end of the day, they will need income to support 400+ devs, or else face massive layoffs. I'm pretty sure they will be able to produce a game for 160m (maybe with external funding), but they'll need continuing revenue after release. The game already has over a million keys floating around. With resellers, etc, I doubt new copies alone will keep them afloat for long. Especially if CIG has already taken external investments to borrow against future revenue.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Man, they really should have stuck to the original vision.

 

[DieH@rd]

I'm in no rush. My focus is Squadron 42 for which I gladly gave them $35.

MMO part of the game is a curiosity for me, I will play it when it is ironed out. They are handling many advanced systems now, so I'm not surprised at all the bugs.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

I respect the ambition but there's no way this is ever going to work as intended.

 

[RedRum]

the whales will love it though.

Not much into SC. I just check out info here and there. I am in disbelief at the prices of these ships. Curious if you can purchase these with in-game currency.

 

[Pepboy]

Not much into SC. I just check out info here and there. I am in disbelief at the prices of these ships. Curious if you can purchase these with in-game currency.

Eventually, supposedly yes. But not likely a feature for 1-2 years minimum. They said they "hope" to have buying ships included in 3.1. But 3.0 is not likely to ship this year in any stable shape (no release date was given).

edit: Also we know very little about how much in game time will be required for these ships. Basically backers are trusting they will be "reasonable" about it.

 

[Megalo]

Not much into SC. I just check out info here and there. I am in disbelief at the prices of these ships. Curious if you can purchase these with in-game currency.

"Remember: we are offering this pledge ship to help fund Star Citizen’s development. The funding generated by sales such as this is what allows us to include deeper, non-combat oriented features in the Star Citizen world. All ships will be available for in-game credits in the final universe, and they are not required to start the game. The goal is to make additional ships available that give players a different experience rather than a particular advantage when the final persistent universe launches."

 

[eyeball_kid]

This would mean they are effectively monetising game development itself...

Hey why not, people already pay streamers to play games, this just takes out the middleman. By paying a developer to watch them make a game in perpetuity, you get all the fun of pre-launch hype with none of the disappointment of release.

 

[Chipopo]

I don't think it's a scam. I think it's just molynuex style incompetence combined with an extremely exploitative revenue model

This.

 

[DrKelpo]

2100$ for some ships?

how do you even justify this price for yourself as the gamer?

Do you tell yourself you help financing the game? Image having to pay 25$ to fly the Falcon in Battlefront. It's insane.

also this one part "see that crater, the whole of Skyrim fits into it."... well yes, but it's an empty crater on a planet that is going to be 95% empty.
I'm not hating on open world games, but bragging about empty ass planets wont impress a lot of people besides the hardcore fans.

As always... impressive tech and with a lot of potential, but janky and it seems like it's years from being completed.

 

[Cabbagehead]

how do you even justify this price for yourself as the gamer?

Do you tell yourself you help financing the game? Image having to pay 25$ to fly the Falcon in Battlefront. It's insane.

also this one part "see that crater, the whole of Skyrim fits into it."... well yes, but it's an empty crater on a planet that is going to be 95% empty.
I'm not hating on open world games, but bragging about empty ass planets wont impress a lot of people besides the hardcore fans.

As always... impressive tech and with a lot of potential, but janky and it seems like it's years from being completed.

Yes it's a game in alpha, so of course it's janky, just like any early access demo or game will be in development and it's going to be a MMO, so finished is subjective. Also that money going towards making the game like all the other money before it (that's the main point). Still no one is under any obligation to pay that much and the majority of people don't anyway. The developers got wages and making a ambition game isn't cheap.

Talk about taking things out of context also. The point is the size and it being "empty" is kind of the point of a moon and a space game. Cause you know space is mostly empty.

But you can't decide that it's only going to be the hardcore fans that will be impressed. Pretty sure the folks that got to play the demo on the show floor at Gamescom were impressed.

 

[Spuck-uk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=All1Fq3vt6U

OTOH this looks promising

 

[Spuck-uk]

Yes it's a game in alpha, so of course it's janky, just like any early access demo or game will be in development and it's going to be a MMO, so finished is subjective. Also that money going towards making the game like all the other money before it (that's the main point). Still no one is under any obligation to pay that much and the majority of people don't anyway. The developers got wages and making a ambition game isn't cheap.

Talk about taking things out of context also. The point is the size and it being "empty" is kind of the point of a moon and a space game. Cause you know space is mostly empty.

But you can't decide that it's only going to be the hardcore fans that will be impressed. Pretty sure the folks that got to play the demo on the show floor at Gamescom were impressed.

'We don't have any content because space doesn't have any content'

 

[Ganyc]

But not likely a feature for 1-2 years minimum.

Erin said that we will see this feature soon. Not in 3.0 but maybe in 3.1

 

[~Cross~]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=All1Fq3vt6U

OTOH this looks promising

This is all in game already and it really isn't special given the amount of time its taken them to roll it out.

OTOH Elite, despite being called mile wide and inch thick still has meatier gameplay loops that what has been presented for SC. Also much better flight systems. Also it exists and can be more easily criticized than the eternal pie in the sky SC.

 

[Ganyc]

'We don't have any content because space doesn't have any content'

wsa this a quote from Elite Dangerous?

 

[Sir Doom]

Me: So where's my Squadron 42
Roberts: look at this new feature. Check it out
Me: I just want Squadron--
Roberts: look at this new ship. It's big!
ME: I just --
Roberts: voice chat!
.......

They really need to focus on one thing than just all these features that are half ass

 

[Spuck-uk]

wsa this a quote from Elite Dangerous?

Not sure, isn't really fair to compare games that started dev around the same time, when one is out and the other isn't.

Elite Dangerous is a good example of getting something solid, if dull in place, and iterating on a stable base to add features and fun, instead of whatever this is becoming.

 

[Chipopo]

Erin said that we will see this feature soon. Not in 3.0 but maybe in 3.1

Erin also said at the start of 2017 that they are aiming for 3 big patch releases this year.

 

[Ganyc]

Erin also said at the start of 2017 that they are aiming for 3 big patch releases this year.

yeah, "aiming". And?


Now we will get content from 3.1 in 3.0, this is game developement.

 

[Breads]

So is this a game yet or is it still just a collection of disconnected featurettes?

 

[artsi]

So is this a game yet or is it still just a collection of disconnected featurettes?

The bolded one.

 

[gossi]

So is this a game yet or is it still just a collection of disconnected featurettes?

It is turning into a real mess. They can't even ship the things they announced and missed during this year.

 

[Neoweee]

This would mean they are effectively monetising game development itself...

They already effectively have monetized game development itself, as has any multi-year early-access game.

 

[MJLord]

I'm watching through now, I'm loving the face capture stuff. I don't know how some of you can be so curmudgeon about some of the things shown off.

 

[CSJ]

2100$ for some ships? Man the economics of this game is beyond ridicolus. I know you wont have to buy everything and you will be able to buy ships using the ingame economy. Will be really interesting to see how that pan out in reality.

I don't think any game has come this close to selling it's main game asset so freely.
It would be like launching an MMO by selling tiers of armour and weapons that can be used through the entire game. Then you get people saying "yeah but it come with the best weapons and upgrades" but there's still a power or economic advantage elsewhere other than fighting.

I feel like there's going to be a lot more complaining come release about "ugh this person can haul 100 times what I can and make a larger profit because they bought a ship for a quintillion dollars and I need to play the game for 3 months just get to that point!"

But you could argue, what about people who join the game a year down the line or more, they need to start from scratch too....

Eh it's a hard one.

 

[Lime]

oh my god I died from laughing at that face ip showcase.

 

[N3DS]

So I am not familiar with those premium ships, are they p2w? Or it isn't clear what is 'winning' in this game?

 

[~Cross~]

I'm watching through now, I'm loving the face capture stuff. I don't know how some of you can be so curmudgeon about some of the things shown off.

Its a priority sort of thing. While they spend man hours to get something that will only impact you if you have a camera + are communicating with someone through VOIP the games support of HOTAS languishes and VR is still non-existent. This face camera thing is actually detrimental to the use of VR.

If it was something added just for fun AFTER core elements of the game were established, it wouldn't get as much blowback.

So I am not familiar with those premium ships, are they p2w? Or it isn't clear what is 'winning' in this game?

We dont know what winning is in this game is because it doesn't exist. What we know is that people that spend more money have a clear edge over those that spend less, that much is certain. It'll be another 3-4 years before we know how much of an edge it is though.

 

[Spuck-uk]

So I am not familiar with those premium ships, are they p2w? Or it isn't clear what is 'winning' in this game?

There's not even close to enough of the actual game created to even know. I doubt they've thought about balance much, when something as simple as flying between two planets made their demo crash out.

 

[MJLord]

Its a priority sort of thing. While they spend man hours to get something that will only impact you if you have a camera + are communicating with someone through VOIP the games support of HOTAS languishes and VR is still non-existent. This face camera thing is actually detrimental to the use of VR.

If it was something added just for fun AFTER core elements of the game were established, it wouldn't get as much blowback.

I'm only up to the point of meeting up with the third player on Levski so I've not seen the whole run yet. But from my perspective communication is going to be super important and having a system in place that stands out like this is a brilliant thing to have.

When 3.0 is released out into the wild and we can start getting patches at a regular basis then maybe the 'feel' of being a backer will improve. It feels pretty sucky atm to be playing a version that's obviously so out of date.



It's kind of a shame they feel like they have to 'do it live' then have CR basically bossing people around and blustering when things go wrong.

 

[Pepboy]

Erin said that we will see this feature soon. Not in 3.0 but maybe in 3.1

The absolute earliest 3.0 could launch is Ciizencon, but I think a more reasonable estimate is that they push hard and delay it to early next year.

They then need to get 3.0 to a somewhat stable place, not crashing all the time. You can't have people working hard for ships then suddenly they disappear, or players crashing / disconnecting and then someone comes along and steals their ship. They'll also need a variety of missions working reasonably well as that's the only way to earn money right now.

I suspect all of that will easily take all of 2018. By early to mid 2019, I think we could see an early release of 3.1 with mining. The code base seems so glitchy I don't think they'd try implementing interactable objects prior to that. Given how particular Chris Roberts is, I could easily see 3.1 requiring even more time, so that the asteroids break apart in realistic ways after superheating them with a laser. Probably need to get them glowing just the right away as well, etc. So looking at mid-2019 before mining is actually working decently well.

If they add ship sales at that point, I'd consider them "ahead". But frankly I think Chris knows how his bread is buttered and will save this feature until after Citizencon 2019. If you add in-game ship sales too quickly, players will have far less incentive to purchase the newest ships, and by 2019, CIG may be running low on funding or may have already turned to external investment (if he hasn't already).

All of this is also under the assumption that they don't make any progress with SQ42, which is almost certainly going to take time away from SC. So probably my estimates are too aggressive, it could easily be 2020 or 2021 before we see in-game ship sales.

 

[MJLord]

Man that Idris is amazing to look at from the outside!

 

[Outrun]

If 3,0 is coming in 2018, will it be the original featured 3.0, or the existing one?

 

[ElyrionX]

the whales will love it though.

Jesus christ. I mean, if the game was out and was the best goddamn game ever then I can see them getting away with this. But the game is not even a year away from release wtf.

 

[wolgoen]

I can't make a new thread, maybe someone else could.

Here's a new Star Citizen Alpha 3.0 Gamescom '17 Demo Walkthrough which I don't think has been posted.

Launch me into outer space if old.

https://youtu.be/xVVXz0V10zg

 

[~Cross~]

If 3,0 is coming in 2018, will it be the original featured 3.0, or the existing one?

Despite what people say, any features added to 3.0 would be superfluous if it did not include a large mechanic like mining/refining/farming in it. CIG initially had the schedule set up like

3.0- Landing on planets and trading
3.1- Mining
3.2 Farming

Those are the big marquee elements of the patch. Things like extra ships or ship reworks aren't really gameplay additions, they are ways they can continue to monetize the game.

Now I dont think 3.0 will come out in 2018, at the very worst they'll cut shit out and force it out by the end of the year like they did with 2.6 if they had to. 3.0 in 2018 would be disastrous

 

[Geist-]

People wondering about Squadron 42, they usually wait for Citizencon (October 9th) to release any new information.

I can't make a new thread, maybe someone else could.

Here's a new Star Citizen Alpha 3.0 Gamescom '17 Demo Walkthrough which I don't think has been posted.

Launch me into outer space if old.

https://youtu.be/xVVXz0V10zg

I'd wait until CIG releases their own edited version.

 

[Megalo]

Jesus christ. I mean, if the game was out and was the best goddamn game ever then I can see them getting away with this. But the game is not even a year away from release wtf.

It's a crowd-funded big budget game. That's how they get the money to actually make the game.
There are 2k+ pledges on a lot of kickstarters, and apparently some people are willing to pay that price (not that I truly understand why).

 

[Trogdor1123]

This game and it's supporters (the ones that think this is all great) boggle my mind...

It's a crowd-funded big budget game. That's how they get the money to actually make the game.
There are 2k+ pledges on a lot of kickstarters, and apparently some people are willing to pay that price (not that I truly understand why).

It already has 150 million!

 

[Soi-Fong]

The bolded one.

Brutal.. Haha Crazy to me there's still people defending this game.

 

[Cartho]

This is going to be used as an example in future years to young game designers about the dangers of over ambition and "feature creep".

Being ambitious is a superb thing. As a teacher, I want all of my students to be ambitious and to set demanding goals for themselves. However there are lines. It is not "ambitious" to try and climb to the top of Mount Everest without any clothes on and without consulting any guides or doing any training.

I feel like SC is long past the point of "ambitious" now. It's at the point where Roberts et al are continually saying "hey wouldn't it be cool if..." and then going for it before they've finished the last 8 things they had on the go. The simple fact is they've got more money for this game than the vast majority of other games out there. There comes a time when they need to start hitting their targets and getting this shit properly released.

At the moment SC is a collection of different things, vaguely glued together with duct tape and pritt stick. I wonder if the rabid fans of this game are going to be saying "oh it's just ambitious! They need time to make a game of this scope!" In 2020, when the game still isn't properly out because they've decided to realistically model every mile of underground caverns and extinct volcanoes on every single planet in the universe.

Trouble is, they're in a classic Catch 22 situation here. If they release it and it doesn't meet the now stratospheric expectations of its fans then they're going to be in a lot of trouble with a lot of people who gave them a lot of money.

If they keep pushing it back and promising new features people are going to lose patience entirely.

 

[Soi-Fong]

This is going to be used as an example in future years to young game designers about the dangers of over ambition and "feature creep".

Being ambitious is a superb thing. As a teacher, I want all of my students to be ambitious and to set demanding goals for themselves. However there are lines. It is not "ambitious" to try and climb to the top of Mount Everest without any clothes on and without consulting any guides or doing any training.

I feel like SC is long past the point of "ambitious" now. It's at the point where Roberts et al are continually saying "hey wouldn't it be cool if..." and then going for it before they've finished the last 8 things they had on the go. The simple fact is they've got more money for this game than the vast majority of other games out there. There comes a time when they need to start hitting their targets and getting this shit properly released.

At the moment SC is a collection of different things, vaguely glued together with duct tape and pritt stick. I wonder if the rabbis fans of this game are going to be saying "oh it's just ambitious! They need time to make a game of this scope!" In 2020, when the game still isn't properly out because they've decided to realistically model every mile of underground caverns and extinct volcanoes on every single planet in the universe.

Trouble is, they're in a classic Catch 22 situation here. If they release it and it doesn't meet the now stratospheric expectations of its fans then they're going to be in a lot of trouble with a lot of people who gave them a lot of money.

If they keep pushing it back and promising new features people are going to lose patience entirely.

Don't let the money fool ya. Supporters will scream from the rooftops that this is still an indie game.

 

[Megalo]

It already has 150 million!

And that's how it got there.
There are apparently 400+ devs working on it right now. That's a lot, and if they want to remain 100% independant they need a constant influx of money.

Anyway nobody is forced to put that much money into the game and no content is locked behind a paywall. Once again:

"Remember: we are offering this pledge ship to help fund Star Citizen’s development. The funding generated by sales such as this is what allows us to include deeper, non-combat oriented features in the Star Citizen world. All ships will be available for in-game credits in the final universe, and they are not required to start the game. The goal is to make additional ships available that give players a different experience rather than a particular advantage when the final persistent universe launches."

 

[admiraltaftbar]

Don't let the money fool ya. Supporters will scream from the rooftops that this is still an indie game.

Yeah I was talking with friends who thought it was still indie team size and I said its now bigger than all of ID and had been for awhile (though that was more because they hadn't been following the project).

 

[Trogdor1123]

And that's how it got there.
There are apparently 400+ devs working on it right now. That's a lot, and if they want to remain 100% independant they need a constant influx of money.

Anyway nobody is forced to put that much money into the game and no content is locked behind a paywall. Once again:

"Remember: we are offering this pledge ship to help fund Star Citizen’s development. The funding generated by sales such as this is what allows us to include deeper, non-combat oriented features in the Star Citizen world. All ships will be available for in-game credits in the final universe, and they are not required to start the game. The goal is to make additional ships available that give players a different experience rather than a particular advantage when the final persistent universe launches."

No, I'm getting at that no game should need that much let alone more and still be freaking alpha. You get more than gta costs and you are still in alpha? And then it's ok to ask for more? I don't like how that sounds at all...

It's crazy to actually believe these 2k ships won't be better than regular ships when (if) the game ships.