Drinky Crow
Banned
The JGaffers like shit like Xenosaga 3.
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Tales of the Abyss US version - What's the deal?
- Thread starter SantaC
- Start date
Tellaerin said:
I dunno, i think people can enjoy it after it gets price dropped and send a message to Namco Hometek about their localization job.
But if people are happy with half assed jobs and to get laughed at by both duckroll and Namco Hometek's localization team, good for them.
Lain said:
I don't think Namco's localization team are laughing at anybody, to be honest, unless by 'laughing' you mean 'wishing they'd be given a bigger budget to work with'. And as far as being laughed at by Duckroll goes, well... I don't really think anybody ought to be basing their purchasing decisions on whether or not somebody on GAF is going to laugh at them, no matter who it is. Duck's a nice guy and all, but I won't go through life feeling unfulfilled if he doesn't validate my game choices.
SantaC
Member
Lain said:
The funny thing is that duckroll and others actually have enjoyed the game in its full japanese glory, so you're telling those who waited for the game for like 10 months to not get it? You know I don't think namco hometek is going to care a shit if 20-30 people on a messageboard don't buy the game.
SantaC said:
The funny thing is that you are ok with receiving a subpar product ( compared to the original ) for your money.
All I'm saying is for people to buy it when it price drops to be just as cheap as Namco Hometek's cheap localization team.
People get what they want, if you want subpar treatment for full price, be my guest and enjoy it =)
Lain said:
The problem with your strategy is that Namco's not exactly going to be running an exit poll at stores to determine why the game's not selling at full price. They're already unwilling to budget for a better localization as it is. If the game doesn't do well until after a price drop, do you think anyone going to look at the sales figures, assume that it fell short because of the localization job, and allocate more money for the next one?
No, a far more likely scenario would be for the execs to say, 'Look, the Tales series was never a big property for us in North America to begin with, and now it looks like what popularity it had in that market's falling off. There's no point in us localizing any more games in the series for the foreseeable future.' Now, I know that wouldn't faze the people here who play the Japanese versions (and I think Duckroll would be absolutely ecstatic at seeing Namco Hometek take a beating
), but for the non-Japanese speaking North American market, not being able to play the games at all is worse than being deprived of voice-acting in the skits. Seriously, man, think about what you're suggesting here.
pancakesandsex
Member
For every butchered tales game that gets released, theres at least 10 other rpgs released with better localization jobs done on them. Why not spend your money on those INSTEAD of horroble tales localizations. You think namco doesnt look at competitor sales data? Maybe that will send a message "hey look we are buying these other games that were DONE RIGHT and not you're shitty attempt".
Yeah Abyss may be the best tales game, story wise, but its far from the best combat wise, and it no more than holds its own against many recent hits and old classics. In other words, it's not exactly blowing the competition out of the water. Yeah it's a great game, but it's not going to change anyone's mind on the series, it's still full of those "anime" moments that piss some of you off etc. If you have to buy a game, spend your money on something that was done right, not on this stillbirth of a localization.
Yeah Abyss may be the best tales game, story wise, but its far from the best combat wise, and it no more than holds its own against many recent hits and old classics. In other words, it's not exactly blowing the competition out of the water. Yeah it's a great game, but it's not going to change anyone's mind on the series, it's still full of those "anime" moments that piss some of you off etc. If you have to buy a game, spend your money on something that was done right, not on this stillbirth of a localization.
Logan Cano
Banned
Guys, guys, stop making an armaggedon out of the lack of voices in the skits! They are just skits, not an integral part of the gameplay, and the localization isn't ruined just because the skits aren't voiced.
Then again, this IS GAF.
Then again, this IS GAF.
Tellaerin said:The problem with your strategy is that Namco's not exactly going to be running an exit poll at stores to determine why the game's not selling at full price. They're already unwilling to budget for a better localization as it is. If the game doesn't do well until after a price drop, do you think anyone going to look at the sales figures, assume that it fell short because of the localization job, and allocate more money for the next one?
No, a far more likely scenario would be for the execs to say, 'Look, the Tales series was never a big property for us in North America to begin with, and now it looks like what popularity it had in that market's falling off. There's no point in us localizing any more games in the series for the foreseeable future.' Now, I know that wouldn't faze the people here who play the Japanese versions (and I think Duckroll would be absolutely ecstatic at seeing Namco Hometek take a beating
Namco Hometek wouldn't need to run an exit poll to know why the game didn't sell as much for full price. I guess people would talk about it on their boards, and other boards, and they aren't exactly oblivious to that.
But it'll never happen, since Namco Hometek knows pretty well that their fans, the Tales of fans, will buy it no matter how much they cut from it, be it just VA, or the entire skits, or more.
That's why they laugh while throwing budget excuses.
And to repeat myself, if people are happy with it ( since they'll buy the game full price because they're just happy to have it ), good for them. They get treated just as they want to be treated. And i'm happy for them =)
EDIT:
Link1110 said:
I wish i was Duckroll, then i could have already enjoyed P3 =/
pancakesandsex said:
Yeah, but how many of those 10 other RPG's have an action battle system like the ones in the Tales games? (Outside of the overall style and those infamous 'anime moments' that some people like to piss on, but I actually enjoy, the battle system is a big part of what makes the series so entertaining for me.) The only other ones I can think of that did anything remotely similar are Star Ocean 3 and Radiata Stories, and neither of those did it as well.
It's easy to tell people 'just play another RPG instead' like they're all interchangeable, but that's not necessarily the case for everybody.
The impression I got was that like in other Tales games, a whole lot of the character moments/development that wasn't directly tied into the main plot was in the skits. I also hear the skits are like Symphonia's - talking heads with voice acting (in Japan only!) that automatically advance as the characters finish speaking their lines and you CANNOT manually advance the dialog yourself. Let me tell you - around hour 20 or the 60 or so it took me to beat Symphonia (good god, I suffered through that plot for how long?), the way the skits were presented in the US version of the game became really, really tiresome. If as the importers have stated the skits are even more important to the enjoyment of the game in Abyss, it's going to be really goddamn annoying to sit there waiting for when text originally accompanied by voice acting deems to advance since I read the entire line five or ten seconds ago.jj984jj said:
I'm sure this is where someone will say, "But LegatoB, at least now we get the skits! They removed them entirely from Tales of Eternia!" While an incredibly aggravating presentation of content otherwise bound for the chopping block is better than not having the content at all, if the content is still presented in an aggravating way the player may not choose to indulge in it, thus defeating the purpose of including it
Logan Cano
Banned
jj984jj said:
How come?? If they're similar to what they were like in Symphonia, I don't think anyone should mind. They're nice, and entertaining at times, but not voicing them isn't going to break an excellent game, at least according to impressions.
I just can't believe so much fuss is being done over some voiced skits.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
I...don't get the whole "boycott" stance taken by people. Boycott Tales...Hometek starts seeing Tales as a waste of funds...Hometek stops releasing Tales in NA..they're notorious for not allowing 3rd parties to bring their titles over. Who wins here? Yeah.
An email campaign would carry more weight; but then again, it's minor stuff, so I ain't going crazy about it either.
An email campaign would carry more weight; but then again, it's minor stuff, so I ain't going crazy about it either.
I bought Symphonia at launch, and found the dead air of the skits of Symphonia to be quite annoying, and they're the reason why I stopped playing the game after about two or three hours in, and haven't bothered to pick it up again since.Logan Cano said:
And I didn't need any Jgaffers to tell me that there was supposed to be something there in the original.
I hate Hometek as much as the next guy, but a thread full of righteously indignant Japanese-speaking elitist GAFers chastising anyone that'd buy a quality game to support a series they want to continue seeing localized (IE, the only way that a whole lot of people in the US can play the games) is not only tedious, it's downright obnoxious.
ethelred said:
Well said... totally agree with you and Link. I can't believe some of the reactions to this thread... they are just skits after all, and like someone else said I find it hard to imagine people play Tales games for stuff other than the dungeons and combat system (especially when the story seems to be a competition to see how many RPG/anime cliches we can cram into one game).
charlequin
Banned
ethelred said:
That's bullshit, man. Cut off your nose, mother****er, your face deserves it.
charlequin
Banned
Link1110 said:Oh, and preventing future Tales games from being localized isn't cutting off your nose to spite your face? It's just voices in skits.
You know what my mother would call you? A namby pamby.
I think you missed something!
man Tales of... fans are ****ed either way. sucks for them.
because without them there is no character development and without character development the story is shite and apparently ToTA relies a lot on the skits for it's character development. that's like taking out an integral part of the gameplay in a game. sure the game will still be good but to treat a game like that is seriously stupid.
Magicpaint
Member
Error2k4 said:
Not those of us that have the Japanese versions as alternatives.
I played through Rebirth and Destiny 2j just fine, I also played the Japanese version of Legendia (never touched the English one). I shall be playing the Japanese version of Abyss, but also the English since that's my native language and I'll be able to understand 100%.
As for the lack of voice in the skits, it's the reason behind it that even bother me more (thought the lack of voices KILL skits for me). Bandai Namco are just lazy and don't want to spend, period. Tales of the Abyss has zero media attention, lack of consumer awareness and a release date is not even confirmed.
VA adds a lot to the characters if done right. (see DDS)ethelred said:
but still... you people should be glad there is no VA in the skits then. Im pretty sure ToTA VA is going to suck going by the trailers I've seen.
still that lame excuse "we are running on a low budget" is so ****ing retarded.
Magicpaint
Member
Tales of Symphonia's VA wasn't bad, I thought Kratos, Presea, Raine and Zelos were voiced very, very well.
The Prime Director
Banned
duckroll said:
Wow, you are pathetic.
First thing, Namco's localizations aren't bad at all. With Namco, you can always count on:
1. Free preorder bonuses (excellent artbooks with Xenosaga 1 and 3 and Symphonia/Legendia, seperately packaged movie dvd with Xenosaga 2, bigass wallscroll with Baten Kaitos, etc.) Extremely important for collectors like myself.
2. Color manuals (not so with NIS, Capcom, etc., as a collector this is more important that voice acting in ****ing skits).
3. Recently as well, a price of only $40, a lifesaver in this era of higher game prices (this was true of Suikoden5 as well, which also came with a kickass artbook/soundtrack).
Yes, the censorship of Xenosaga 3 sucked. Oh well. It didn't fundamentally change the game. As for the changes to Tales, never in million years would I have noticed if I wasn't told what was changed/removed. At some point you have to judge the games based on what they are, not what they could have been. A Tales of Abyss without voice acting in the skits (OH NOES) is still rought 10 trillion times more interesting to me that Devil Summoner with the world's ****ing best localization.
Also don't forget Namco's track record in non-RPG games, Soul Calibur for example. The US release of SC2 had extra characters (Beserker, Assasin and Lizardman) not in the Japanese version. The US version of SC3 was released fully a month BEFORE the Japanese version, and they still didn't get anything extra.
Why don't you bitch at Square Enix for never ****ing releasing the definitive international/final mix versions of their games in the US? KH2 even had some slight censorship from the Japanese version, were we supposed to not buy it?
We win some (completely enhanced DQVIII and upcoming Rogue Galaxy, FFXII collector's edition, etc.) and we lose some (little bits and pieces being removed/changed from a lot of games, many games not being released at all). The Japanese frequently don't get major Western releases, and when they do, it's almost NEVER given Japanese voice acting, and I can't think of a single instance where it was enhanced. Overall, I'd say we westerners have it pretty well.
So please, stop being an idiot.
FateBreaker
Member
The Prime Director said:
Exactly; and he thinks I'm such a rabid fanboy of the company and its localizations that I must work there. :lol
ethelred said:
You and others keep saying this, but have you played ToS? The skits are boring as hell because thereis no voice acting and you can't press anything to speed up the text. You just have to sit there and wait until it's done. I liked the game, but I can't tell you how many times I fell asleep or got tired of playing because of the skits.
FateBreaker
Member
Beezy said:
well if that's the case, you don't have to select them...right?
radios shipping overview
Member
Well, **** me sideways! I'd better become a dirty collector so that I don't have to worry about quality in localizations anymore.The Prime Director said:
Hometek is a target because they've consistently removed more content from games than any other company from the 32-bit era onward. Sure, they favor the US with titles like Tekken and SC and Ridge Racer, but that's because those are the only kinds of games Hometek knows how to market, historically. Hometek takes the minimum-effort path with Tales because they'd rather be shovelling manure than marketing and publishing foofy RPGs (or Klonoa games, or Mr. Driller).
Sure, other games have to make changes and cuts. It's part of the job. Some cuts are more forgivable than others, though, and Hometek always seem like they're looking for things to screw up. They don't seem to think they need to operate on the same standard as other companies that operate in this niche. Why should we let them get away with it?
Though, admittedly, they have improved a little - i.e. leaving skits in without voice instead of cutting them entirely; not chopping entire characters as in ToD; not cutting out an entire CD-ROM worth of story content in Ace Combat games (as in AC3).
FateBreaker
Member
jiji said:
They're not THAT bad anymore. I'm not saying they're good, but compared to Destiny's first release (and just skipping Phantasia completely), they have improved.
Why should we let them get away with it? Because the politics of it are pretty stupid; we can't really do anything, and if we do, they might just forget it completely. We're spending the money for the game, not for Hometek. Unfortunately, Hometek is the only one doing a translation of Abyss. So options are limited.
charlequin
Banned
The Prime Director said:
This is a good point that's rarely brought up here. PS1 era aside (as it should be, since everyone butchered games that generation), the actual translation and effort in Namco's games tends to be quite high. Katamari, a game that would've been completely ruined by anything but a 110% effort, was fantastic in English. Tales of Legendia has extremely competent voice acting, an excellent script, and even re-recorded musical numbers. Yeah, we did get hosed -- half the game got left unvoiced thanks to bullshit. But the actual localization efforts themselves are very good. I'd rather reward that, and hope increasing sales lead to increasing budgets, then refuse to buy a game I want to play on an idiotic principle.
EDIT: The problem is that the localization dudes they have are actually a great team but the corporate level is ****tarded about RPGs. The localization director for Legendia was all prepped and excited to go for full voicing in that game until they told him they wouldn't fund more than X number of spoken lines regardless of how that related to the actual game's content, and not voicing the second half was the best of the lousy options available to him.
Struth. Other companies like Capcom routinely roll over "final version" Japanese features into their Greatest Hits releases, but FFX, KH, and FFX-2 all had huge additions that Square were "too lazy" to bring over (even though, in at least FFX's case, it would've meant minimal additional translation/voice was needed). Boycott S-E!
The Prime Director said:
You're right, they downright suck, since they can't do anything without ( almost always ) cutting content one way or another when it comes to their RPGs ( when they do release them ) and it goes on from years =/
Not Even Symphonia numbers changed that, but i am sure if ToA sells alot, the next Tales of will have all its content left in
not
So good localization means cotillons? good to know. Atlus sucks then, they don't always give bonus stuff, and lately when they do it is tied to a certain retailer chain.
Damn Atlus and their bad localization!
The games got changed, but since you're not too bright to notice, who cares? I got you.
Hey, at least they did bring over the game fully the first time! The same can't be said for Namco Hometek now, can it?
FateBreaker
Member
Lain said:
Blood in a few scenes changes the entire game?
****. So if they left it in this would have got 10's. Damnit.
So what we've established from all this is that as long as you're not an RPG, Namco knows how to localize you. Great! But it doesn't solve the problem or excuse being lazy/cheap bastards when you're at work on RPGs.charlequin said:
Oh man, I can't believe I forgot about that. :lol And you people still defend Namco Hometek!
It hasn't worked yet. Why would it work now?
But the additions weren't a big deal and Kingdom Hearts sucks anyway. I don't see what we're missing! :lol
Joe Molotov
Member
LegatoB said:
I wouldn't mind that much if all the voice-acting was removed. I ended up having to turn that crap off in Baten Kaitos anymore. I've played about a million RPGs before without VA.
FateBreaker
Member
you all treat square-enix pretty well on localizations, interestingly enough, in the same context of Namco (with bringing stuff over here, like Venus and Braves)
Because Front Mission 5 and Code Age Commanders got SUCH good localizations here :lol
Because Front Mission 5 and Code Age Commanders got SUCH good localizations here :lol
Tellaerin said:
You're right.
Removing blood from cutscenes in which it is obvious it should have been isn't obvious to who hasn't played the Japanese version.
Just as having half game with VA and half game without doesn't raise a concern that something is missing/got changed to someone who hasn't played the Japenese version, obviously.
I never got what he meant, i'll pay more attention next time.