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The Matrix Awakens: An Unreal Engine 5 Experience is up for PS5 and Xbox X/S

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
In UE5 demo I would sacrifice geometry, raytraced reflections and meta humans if it meant 60fps was possible.

Its a hard choice because when actually playing a game your not going to notice higher geometric details and ray traced reflections that much but 60fps is always apparent and appreciated however there have been times in games where I walk around and look at the environments and flat geometry does stick out.
But overall all, I prefer better textures,lumen/RT global illumination, SSR, slightly higher geometry and 60fps rather then pushing RT reflections and geometry.

Im really curious what a AAA team can produce @ 60fps on UE5.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
You can't divide a dataset though so the full dataset need to be able to fit somewhere & HDD was too slow .

Clitoclock

Sorry I thought you meant the whole city would be 16gb.
Yeah I agree SSDs will allow things to be streamed directly from it and data to be put in RAM very quickly.

It will be interesting the direction a company like R* takes, I imagine it will be like what CERNY mentioned, a hybrid approach, textures streamed directly from the SSD and other things from RAM.
 

Pedro Motta

Member
Incredible demo. Tried it on both PS5 and XSX. The PS5 seems to drop less frames I'm pretty sure and less stuttering on scene transitions, but both look amazing.
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
Which is kind of funny considering the original film didn't even feature that green tint but was the result of a bad color grading.


Oh I know this perfectly well.
I celebrated when the hdr bluray finally came out recently with the filter removed.
That said - the original movie still got that werid cold look in the matrix.
 
If we finally get XeSS or MLSS support, this might probably what the end of this generation of games are going to look like on average.

The on rails section was insane in detail, and kept framerate decently except for very slight scene change hiccups, but once you get to the open world and see the framerate just walking, driving or flying around….you just couldn’t pull off open world combat with the framerate like that, especially Matrix style combat (it doesn’t need to necessarily be 60fps, but at the very least a rock stable 30). The thing is, it’s an engine tech demo, it’s always going to beyond what actual games can do (otherwise they’re terrible at PR). The rest of games are not going to look like this on console right away, but it is very, very promising considering the various upscaling techniques coming in.
 

hyperbertha

Member
Please stop. Visuals like this are going to do things for the medium that 60fps could only ever dream of. Stick to 30 and get visuals like this.

This is absolutely mindblowing.
As long as the gameplay is conducive to 30 fps, its great. Games with methodical, weighty combat like bloodborne and dark souls are actually fine at 30 fps, maybe even better, but something like Arkham knight, or Spiderman, with their light, fluid gameplay? I can't bear 30.
 
Your friend and mine The Xbox Tester put up this video:


He does the full demo on the XSS. I hope this puts to bed any notions and concern about what this $300 system is capable of. As Jason Ronald stated the system is designed to deliver the same experience at lower resolutions and that's what we have here. I'm pretty this isn't even on last gen consoles so that should finally answer the question if this system is more powerful than PS4 Pro, or X1X or the Switch. Good to finally have clarity.
 

Matsuchezz

Member
I did see some but it's almost impossible to notice.
Yep, I saw it when i started to fly on the city and cars disappear at certain distance. But they are far away. This engine will propell a lot of devs to new heights, but those who invest a lot of time and resources will deliver truly remarkable graphics.
 
Yep, I saw it when i started to fly on the city and cars disappear at certain distance. But they are far away. This engine will propell a lot of devs to new heights, but those who invest a lot of time and resources will deliver truly remarkable graphics.

Flying around as Neo would definitely make that noticeable. But with your average game I don't think anyone would be moving around the map that fast so Poppin shouldn't be noticeable at all. Still i am very impressed with the draw distance and LOD in the demo.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
In UE5 demo I would sacrifice geometry, raytraced reflections and meta humans if it meant 60fps was possible.

Its a hard choice because when actually playing a game your not going to notice higher geometric details and ray traced reflections that much but 60fps is always apparent and appreciated however there have been times in games where I walk around and look at the environments and flat geometry does stick out.
But overall all, I prefer better textures,lumen/RT global illumination, SSR, slightly higher geometry and 60fps rather then pushing RT reflections and geometry.

Im really curious what a AAA team can produce @ 60fps on UE5.
Nanite actually doesnt affect fps negatively.....its a positive.
The lighting and reflections are the most likely culprits of the fps.
Even the MetaHumans "shouldnt" be killing performance that badly.

The way Nanite works effectively every scene costs the same from a geometry perspective because it renders the same amount of triangles regardless.
Its why you can inject basically movie quality geo and it doesnt immediately tank performance.

Inject that same geometry without Nanite and you might as well render that shit offline.

Other engines really are going to have to come up with some sort of clever polygon techniques.
 
That's not what he said, he said Series S is the 1620p version, so it's kicking above its weight!
PS5: dynamic 1620p at 30fps (1404p common)
Series X: dynamic 1080p at 30fps (828p common)
Series S: dynamic 1620p at 30fps (1404p common)
He's a banned source, should only maybe use screenshots from the video rather than any text/framerate info.
Why is El Analista de Bits banned from GAF? Aren't we allowed to link to his videos or comment on them?

What happened?
 

Matsuchezz

Member
Flying around as Neo would definitely make that noticeable. But with your average game I don't think anyone would be moving around the map that fast so Poppin shouldn't be noticeable at all. Still i am very impressed with the draw distance and LOD in the demo.
Yup. Pop up bothers me more than anything else, even on High end PCs you can see that and it breaks immersion instantly. With this Demo nothing like that happened when driving or walking around. It is an impressive tech demo.
 

Portugeezer

Member
Finally gave it a spin on PS5. It's impressive for sure, but I can't help but think a real game with these settings and density would tank(it already does). But there's no complex AI, no gunfights physics, missions structure etc. For a real game it would just be layers and layers of extra taxation on the hardware. So imo, by the time you added in all the extra calculations and dialed everything else back to get a stable 30fps, it would end up looking "good" at best.
At the end of the day it's still a middleware engine, I'm sure some devs with proprietary engines will be able to do even better but it's becoming more common to use a middleware engine these days...
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I can't believe we're finally at the photo-real point. It's just such a trip for those of us who have been gaming since the 1980s.

It's also kind of amazing that the first real photo-real experience features a franchise that is built around the idea of a totally believable virtual world.
I literally screamed when the chase demo finished and the camera settled behind the character. I couldnt believe they would let me control the character let alone walk, drive and fly around the entire living breathing city. It is by the most incredible next gen experience ive had since I played the MGS2 demo all those years ago.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
The night lighting looks really good. Turning off the filter does sharpen everything, so that's nice.

Cars aren't too reliable though. You borrow one and put one scratch on it and it quits running. 🤭

12-10-2021-2-26-40-PM-bchrgovf.jpg
 

CamHostage

Member
Something doesn't add up here. It's all procedurally exploding? During the chase scene I saw about 10 cars flip and explode exactly the same way.

The Chase sequence must be heavily scripted in order to play perfectly (as well as cost-effective to develop.) And I'm not just talking scripted as in writing down, "this happens, they go here, they fight this after this happens...", I mean scripted to what the engine has to handle at any given second and what the characters are doing in the timeline and how long it takes before the sequence is over. The whole thing is probably exactly 8:20 long, every playthrough.

In a fully-developed game, even in a setpiece-type action scene like this, there would be more potential variety and there would be room for the player to make mistakes or have a tough encounter that takes longer to fight than usual; maybe the shooting sections of this fight would just circle around a block or cheat the section of highway a few times if you're bad at aiming or on a high difficulty, then cut to the overpass when you "win". Think of a setpiece sequence in like Uncharted or Gears and you can see that you're inside a linear pipe but you're not usually "on rails".

Here, though, there's little room for anything to go wrong*, because if there were any bug in the game or anything a player could do that might break the game, then the illusion fails, and this demo is all about the perfected illusion that a next-gen engine can present gamers. It would be built less like an action setpiece and more like a pre-scripted cutscene, only this is one where you do have a little bit of control via a reticle and maybe action-triggers (although even those seem to have some scripting.) Once you get to the open-world sequences, then it can have glitches or look like a demo, but until then, it's as on-rails as it can be while still seeming fun and exciting for the "player."

(*Is there even a fail state? It looks like the Agent cars might actually crash even if you don't take them out, especially in the underpass battle they swerve into traffic sometimes without losing control from being shot. I wonder what happens if you don't pull the trigger or intentionally miss?)

yr7LKCq.jpg


So, I bet the car crashes are on a pretty specific vector, following a general script that doesn't really pertain to physics. They swerve one way, countersteer the other way, lose control at the exact same angle, and even flip end-over-end the same number of spins. Maybe there's some room for some variety (moreso in the freeway chase than the shootout under the overpass, since everything is happening behind you and so the game can do something unplanned but still keep going,) and the NPC cars have a little bit of avoidance AI to them when a wreck is happening near them (but they also seem to have have their physics lightened compared to enemy vehicles so that they easily squash out of the way if the Agents need to get past them to attack,) but there has to be a level of control and scripting so that little goes wrong. How those cars break apart when they do crash, how the glass breaks and metal shreds, that's up to the physics system, but the physics system would be given the same few variables of how fast and what direction the vehicle is moving. Easier to design, more stable to run, still enjoayble for the gamer to play, and you only notice how heavily scripted it is on multiple playthroughs or a closer watch.
 
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RoadHazard

Gold Member
Ok, I went through it on PS5. And yeah, the non-playable part is probably the most impressive thing I've seen in real-time. Looks like a movie. But it also (at least on PS5) rather frequently drops frames very noticeably, and the IQ is very noisy.

And once you actually get to play, I'm not sure I find it that impressive. Does it really look THAT much better than, say, Insomniac's Spidey games? The city looks good I guess, but so did it in those games. The NPCs look like trash. The cars are alright, but not that detailed. And it still drops frames in certain situations. Combine that with the grainy image, and eh?

Plus, the input lag is crazy. I would never want to play a game that actually felt like this. And who the hell programmed those car controls? The deadzone is MASSIVE, makes it impossible to control them.
 
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RoadHazard

Gold Member
I can't believe we're finally at the photo-real point. It's just such a trip for those of us who have been gaming since the 1980s.

It's also kind of amazing that the first real photo-real experience features a franchise that is built around the idea of a totally believable virtual world.

I've gotta say it's not even remotely photorealistic once you get to actually play. The completely scripted cinematic comes closer than ever before though.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
I've gotta say it's not even remotely photorealistic once you get to actually play. The completely scripted cinematic comes closer than ever before though.
You're not going to mistake it for a movie or something, but the lighting and the environment do look more realistic than most of the games I've played. A little less cartoon-ish.

But yeah the image can get very noisy at times, especially when you walk through a puddle or into a beam of light. But I could really enjoy a game in this setting, and with the years of polish a real game would get they can probably clean it up.
 

Reizo Ryuu

Gold Member
I've gotta say it's not even remotely photorealistic once you get to actually play.
I worry about the eye health of some in here, if they actually look outside a window and think it looks like this demo, they probably went through their entire lives with blurry ass vision.
Of course, some are just being hyperbolic, but some aren't...
 
1) This is NOT cross gen right? Xbone, XboneX, PS4 and PS4Pro will poo poo on this game, although unreal engine 5 is scalable and made for those consoles as well
2) This game on Raptor Lake, Zen3D, Zen4, PCIE5, RDNA 3, GTX4080 at 60fps, full raytracing, 8K, DLSS 3.0, Fidelity FX 2.0, with reshade mods will make my head explode
3) Game looks insane on PS5 and XSX\S, I am curious how the SSD for both consoles is being used for texture streaming and level of detail.
4) NPC's, and character models needs improvement.
5) Eventhough 30fps, they did good job with cinematic motion/feel
Bravo Epic and Unreal Engine 5!
 
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CamHostage

Member
I wonder why we can’t change the time of the day.

we have a day and night toggle but we can’t move the sun except around the map which is weird and doesn’t make any sense since it‘s the same light just coming from another position.

They could have at least let us try dawn, morning, mid day, afternoon, sunset.

TOD in realtime is not necessarily something that just comes from the placement of the "sun", though. You still have to have manually-placed work, or at least you have to have systems made to shift dynamically. In the old days, they would have layers of textures and color profiles that would swap on, and they would also "paint" in shadows and lights and things to change a location's visual style from day to night. In the new way, you'd be trusting many engine to handle the things you used to do by hand, but you still need to construct them in a way that they can change gradually and ensure that enough systems are in place to maintain a good look in the in-between stages of TOD. (A developer never wants a game to look "bad", so even harsh afternoon lighting produced via realtime systems would still have some magic-hour glow or shading to it so that it's not ugly and flat; similarly, indoors or in alleyways, they're always some ambient light or faked lightsources so that you can see everything well and it continues to look nice. Hollywood does it, and so do games.) It doesn't just go from day to night because they have a sun and the streetlight works. An artist still has to put in some work to make it look like morning, afternoon, dusk, and nightime, especially if those are going to flow together in realtime TOD.

For example, the "experimental" nighttime mode might be using the Data Layer system, replacing the daylight version of the game world with the nighttime version. Its scenery is then lit by its streetlights and the "moon", but textures may be adjusted for a nighttime look and lighting systems replaced to introduce the night version and LOD might change a bit so that light doesn't need to play over surfaces unlit and overall the color grading is assigned to a different scale. Yes, the in-game lighting system is doing its work ultimately, but how those lights work and what they're working towards may be very different from the daytime scene. And blending the two in realtime may just not be something compatible between the two, or at least not something that could be done easily in the development schedule they had. It's the same scene, but, not.

i1TMrRG.jpg


And, it ultimately always has to look like The Matrix, which has a specific look to the daytime and nighttime and never shows a sunrise or sunset (AFAIK) or any time of day that's pretty and warm. The Matrix is the real world, but also, it's not the real world, it is The Matrix.
 
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Stooky

Member
The Chase sequence must be heavily scripted in order to play perfectly (as well as cost-effective to develop.) And I'm not just talking scripted as in writing down, "this happens, they go here, they fight this after this happens...", I mean scripted to what the engine has to handle at any given second and what the characters are doing in the timeline and how long it takes before the sequence is over. The whole thing is probably exactly 8:20 long, every playthrough.

In a fully-developed game, even in a setpiece-type action scene like this, there would be more potential variety and there would be room for the player to make mistakes or have a tough encounter that takes longer to fight than usual; maybe the shooting sections of this fight would just circle around a block or cheat the section of highway a few times if you're bad at aiming or on a high difficulty, then cut to the overpass when you "win". Think of a setpiece sequence in like Uncharted or Gears and you can see that you're inside a linear pipe but you're not usually "on rails".

Here, though, there's little room for anything to go wrong*, because if there were any bug in the game or anything a player could do that might break the game, then the illusion fails, and this demo is all about the perfected illusion that a next-gen engine can present gamers. It would be built less like an action setpiece and more like a pre-scripted cutscene, only this is one where you do have a little bit of control via a reticle and maybe action-triggers (although even those seem to have some scripting.) Once you get to the open-world sequences, then it can have glitches or look like a demo, but until then, it's as on-rails as it can be while still seeming fun and exciting for the "player."

(*Is there even a fail state? It looks like the Agent cars might actually crash even if you don't take them out, especially in the underpass battle they swerve into traffic sometimes without losing control from being shot. I wonder what happens if you don't pull the trigger or intentionally miss?)

yr7LKCq.jpg


So, I bet the car crashes are on a pretty specific vector, following a general script that doesn't really pertain to physics. They swerve one way, countersteer the other way, lose control at the exact same angle, and even flip end-over-end the same number of spins. Maybe there's some room for some variety (moreso in the freeway chase than the shootout under the overpass, since everything is happening behind you and so the game can do something unplanned but still keep going,) and the NPC cars have a little bit of avoidance AI to them when a wreck is happening near them (but they also seem to have have their physics lightened compared to enemy vehicles so that they easily squash out of the way if the Agents need to get past them to attack,) but there has to be a level of control and scripting so that little goes wrong. How those cars break apart when they do crash, how the glass breaks and metal shreds, that's up to the physics system, but the physics system would be given the same few variables of how fast and what direction the vehicle is moving. Easier to design, more stable to run, still enjoayble for the gamer to play, and you only notice how heavily scripted it is on multiple playthroughs or a closer watch.
Most likely reason is the budget, this is a tech demo and adding more custom animations/collision physics cost time and money.
 
Finally gave it a spin on PS5. It's impressive for sure, but I can't help but think a real game with these settings and density would tank(it already does). But there's no complex AI, no gunfights physics, missions structure etc. For a real game it would just be layers and layers of extra taxation on the hardware. So imo, by the time you added in all the extra calculations and dialed everything else back to get a stable 30fps, it would end up looking "good" at best.
Yea but think about how long u think they worked on this tech demo vs how long they’d work on an actual game
 

Reizo Ryuu

Gold Member
The part with nowadays Keanu and Carrie Ann is video, right?
No.
Well if you mean video as in pre-rendered, it could be, but if you mean as in actual real people, then not really.
Keanu is real at the very start, you can tell by the fabric and motion of his shirt, and how his skin/lips/eyes have a natural gloss to them, there's also a bunch of microexpressions that would be really hard to fake; of course they could've had a real body and deepfaked the face.
He's completely fake after the morpheus speaks.

Then when he looks in the mirror, it could be another real keanu, but the mirror is dirty, so it could also be a deepfake.
After the mirror he's fake again for the remainder of the demo.

Carrie ann is fake in every appearance.
 

Dr Bass

Member
No.
Well if you mean video as in pre-rendered, it could be, but if you mean as in actual real people, then not really.
Keanu is real at the very start, you can tell by the fabric and motion of his shirt, and how his skin/lips/eyes have a natural gloss to them, there's also a bunch of microexpressions that would be really hard to fake; of course they could've had a real body and deepfaked the face.
He's completely fake after the morpheus speaks.

Then when he looks in the mirror, it could be another real keanu, but the mirror is dirty, so it could also be a deepfake.
After the mirror he's fake again for the remainder of the demo.

Carrie ann is fake in every appearance.
This is exactly how it came across to me as well. I think he is real in the mirror because it just looked clearly different from the "gamey" version. But again still incredibly impressive overall.

But I think you nailed it here.
 

CamHostage

Member
1) This is NOT cross gen right? Xbone, XboneX, PS4 and PS4Pro will poo poo on this game, although unreal engine 5 is scalable and made for those consoles as well

Unreal Engine 5 is scalable. You can play a game running on Unreal Engine 5 for every platform from PS5/XSX down to Switch and mobile if you go get the latest version of Fortnite.
The advanced techniques inside Unreal Engine 5 they're using for this particular project, those are more or less beyond the scale of past-gen consoles.

(However, it will be interesting to see, once Matrix Awakened projectfile is released for PC, how far down it scales and what it looks like trying to run on low-end hardware. Lumen seems to be an absolute no-go for anywhere down past current-gen, it's already putting stress on PS5/XSX as it is. We shall see if Nanite can be of any help for lesser hardware in some form?)




Anyone else find it really trippy to not see any geometry pop-in? That's one of my least favorite things about games, watching objects tweak and distort while I'm walking towards it.

Trees and other elements which are hard to do in Nanite do pop in or have LOD changes (you'll notice it when you go from Fly cam to Street cam, if you start from the top of a building.) It's weird though, these aren't leafy trees (which is what Nanite can't handle, those tricks uses for vegetation and wind/crush that use stacked layers of textured planes and offsets for motion), these are bare winter trees so you'd think they'd just use the Nanite geometry of fences and bicycle spokes, but I'm sure there's reasons for it and things developers are working on to avoid those issues. In general though, it's excitingly clean.

Most likely reason is the budget, this is a tech demo and adding more custom animations/collision physics cost time and money.

Sure, it's just that some people would think, "Why have ANY physics animations, why not just have the cars crash and do it for real since they can?", and that's not really have development works even if you've got the systems in place to do it "for real". They probably saved themselves a buttload of work and headaches by doing it the way that they knew it would work, even if that might have taken some extra work at first to create a substitute "fake" into a system that does "real".
 
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Romulus

Member
Yea but think about how long u think they worked on this tech demo vs how long they’d work on an actual game

Theres no indication on time, it could have been a year or longer. I just know from playing it, the demo isn't anywhere near the complexity of a full game and its still hitting sub 20s framerate. Struggling.
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
Now that you mentioned it, I actually noticed they are indeed in 4K.

Maybe exporting them directly to the Xbox app on PC is the reason?

Maybe. I never generally use the sharing features, I couldn't even get another shot to share via the console without using the USB. :messenger_beaming:

When I save locally on console and it gets moved to the cloud, those seem to be at internal resolution 1588 x 893 or there abouts (seems to fluctuate a bit). When on USB they are 1920x1080.

At any rate, the more time you spend moving around the city the more impressive the lighting seems. A great sense of scale to the whole thing.
 
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rofif

Can’t Git Gud
Theres no indication on time, it could have been a year or longer. I just know from playing it, the demo isn't anywhere near the complexity of a full game and its still hitting sub 20s framerate. Struggling.
of course. The demo is packing all the ue5 features it can.
In game you need to make room for gameplay mechanics.
You can't drive in this high traffic anyway :p
 
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