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[Anticitizen One]

Warren Spector isn't even a good game creator. The first few First person games that "he made" (Thief, Deus ex, etc.) had a very talented team behind them including people like Ken Levine (Bioshock dude) and he just rode on their talents.

Deus Ex:Invisible War, epic mickey, and epic mickey 2 were all terrible.

 

[Marcel]

No it's him and Warren, Harvey redeemed himself with dishonored.

I agree with you that he redeemed himself, but Harvey's name is still on that turd for the rest of time. It doesn't go away just because he got his shit together.

 

[Andrew.]

where all these nazi mech games that I seem to have been missing?

Was Saboteur the last one?

Minus the mechs, but wasnt that one of the last games that had you taking out Nazzis?

 

[AgentOtaku]

The world didn't need Epic Mickey, either

Yeah, I love the man, but he hasn't really done anything I've given a shit about since.... well Deus Ex

That being said, Deus Ex is still my all time favorite game.

 

[Kusagari]

I know you're trying to give yourself an out with the 'alternate history' thing, but come on. Really?

Ehhh, there haven't been many Nazi FPS at all the past couple years. Everyone has moved onto modern warfare.

 

[metalslimer]

He's right the game will probably be a generic piece of crap, but after that absolute dogshit that was Epic Mickey 2 he should shut the hell up before he destroys what credibility he has left.

 

[Alec]

Remember the original concept art for Epic Mickey? Man, THAT is the game I wanted.

 

[MYE]

What makes him think his opinion matters? He himself almost destroyed the same franchise that got him relevant in the first place.

Self-respect?

 

[pants]

You dont get to decide what 'the world' needs spector. it's kay if you dont like it though.

 

[Azih]

I agree with you that he redeemed himself, but Harvey's name is still on that turd for the rest of time. It doesn't go away just because he got his shit together.

But Spector went on a PR tour and hyped IW up like crazy before the release so he's just as stained as Harvey Smith, failed to redeem himself twice, and is now hanging back and talking shit from retirement.

 

[mephixto]

So for those saying no one has played the game why you think people can't already see how this is going to play out?

All straight FPS play the same. They're all dark and violent. They're all go from A to B, watch cut scene or maybe take part in a quick time event and then repeat. Maybe throw in some melee combat to "spice" things up along with some banter so you don't just hear gun fire the entire time. You kill wave after wave of enemies until you hit the invisible check point. Then stay out of combat a few seconds so health can regenerate.

What about the Riddick game was different that makes people think those assuming the above are wrong and shouldn't voice any opinions now?

Plataformers, FPS, TPS, Survival Horror, Puzzle, Adventure. All the games fall in category all games do the basic of his genre. We should call all games generic then.

 

[marrec]

Guys, the fact that he made a bad game doesn't make his opinion wrong.

The fact that the game he's talking about has almost zero media makes him wrong.

Well, he's right about the trailer at least...

 

[Gintamen]

That's not very nice.

The better question is " Does the world need anotherWolfenstein that ISN'T RtCW2?", anyway. You know, because RtCW was brilliant.

The only true question.

 

[Herla]

A lot of people give Warren a bad rep for Epic Mickey and forgetting his real failure. Case and point :

To be fair, both him and Harvey Smith admitted IW was bad (I'll never forget that "we fucked up").
The same didn't happen with Epic Mickey. Didn't he defend the horrible camera with something akin to "people don't get it" ?

 

[Hot Coldman]

Why? Because it's an old FPS franchise?

Pretty much, yeah! Obviously there's no excuses for making it bad, but as the grandfather of the genre I feel no shame in seeing it being a bit tropey.

 

[NotLiquid]

His own quality of output aside I can't say I disagree with him. I really don't know why a new Wolfenstein exists, the last one was a forgettable disaster.

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

It's a bummer that if Warren Spector makes a point about something, the thread has to be 80% drive-by posts about Epic Mickey instead.

He complains about the hurt feewings of the people who worked hard on Epic Mickey, despite doing the same level of shitting on Wolfenstein himself. As Jim Sterling rightly points out, he's a hypocrite, and should be called out as such.

If he wanted more good, original game ideas, then he should lead by example by making... good and original games, which he obviously hasn't been doing judging by the 'venom' in critics posts. Until he does that, taking to the social media pulpit has little value, and the 'generic' action games market can keep on chugging along happily because it is the one that's already proved itself to work. Sad? Maybe. True? Yes.

 

[Marcel]

Ehhh, there haven't been many Nazi FPS at all the past couple years. Everyone has moved onto modern warfare.

So the creative bankruptcy pendulum swings away from Modern FPS back to Nazi FPS? Exciting!

 

[plagiarize]

I'm glad more people are criticizing the adolescent mainstream. Warren is making an observation about the industry as a whole, not specifically targeting Wolfenstein. As more and more gamers reach middle and older age, I think there will be more clamor for games that target their demographic.

And once again, plenty of NeoGAF members seem unable to divorce a single developers projects with his opinion. There are hundreds of people involved in making a single mainstream game nowadays, not just Warren.

I didn't ask for another Wolfenstein game, post Spear of Destiny, but Return to Castle Wolfenstein was a wonderful game, and there was nothing adolescent about WolfMP or WolfET. Yeah, the single player was crap, but it was still a valid and ground breaking game in other areas.

So lets give this one a chance eh? Criticizing the mainstream is kind of pointless. Picking this game to do it with is even more bizarre.

 

[-Eddman-]

Exactly when and why the game industry became filled with white knights trying to end the "adolescent male power fantasies"? This and the Dragon's Crown issue are pathetic. Games must remain open to every idea. The fact game creators are not interested in deep, mature storylines with real drama right now, doesn't mean mediocre devs suffering from midlife crisis should encourage a "crusade" against the teenage market. I don't even like military FPS but this man is talking nonsense.

You can say a lot of things about Nintendo's mistakes, but their stance about this is remarkable. They don't throw shit at other developers or try to give moral lessons and instead release GOOD family friendly games.

 

[RoboPlato]

I know you're trying to give yourself an out with the 'alternate history' thing, but come on. Really?

Alternate history stuff with Nazis has always fascinated me, particularly stuff that focuses on the Occult. Standard WWII stuff is boring as hell but with the advanced weaponry, mechs, and supernatural this Wolfenstein has some potential in its concept. It reminds me of Resistance with Nazis.

 

[Remachinate]

Yes it does. Spector got money to try to make a good, really good, licensed game and he failed twice.

If he wants less samey projects maybe he should have tried not to make two shit games when he got the chance.

I think it's hilarious you suggest he didn't try to make good games. He tried and failed, it happens. Maybe it means he should stop trying. But it doesn't mean he doesn't know what makes worthwhile games.

No. Ideas and "tries" are worthless. Only quality of the end result matters.

And I'd argue there's more worth to flawed games that try to make something new work than perfect imitations with a new skin.

Innovation doesn't mean a goddamn thing if it's not any good. I'll take a quality shooter about shooting Nazis than an "innovative" game built on not-fun game mechanics any day of the week.

It's this sort of logic that's given us games like Assassin's Creed 3 and Far Cry 3.

 

[BrainZEROX]

Warren sounds more and more like an old geaser screaming at birds in the sky... Yet, the news of a new installment in the Wolfenstein franchise doesn't rock my world at all so he may not be completely wrong with his rant. ***Yawn...***

 

[marrec]

Pretty much, yeah! Obviously there's no excuses for making it bad, but as the grandfather of the genre I feel no shame in seeing it being a bit tropey.

The game being venerable in it's genre will not excuse it if he's mediocre and boring. A lot of FPS games turn out to be mediocre so Warren lashed out at the newest target is all.

 

[BlockheadBrown]

When will he stop talking? When we stop caring.

 

[Big_Al]

The only problem I have with shooters is how many military shooters there are these days. I love FPS, it's my favourite genre and I never tire of that style, but even I'd agree there needs to be more variety in shooters made these days. It's why I'm really looking forward to the Rise Of The Triad remake, simply because it's going for the silliness of the original game with jump pads and all etc. However I find the constant hate a bit silly, even towards games like COD. There's so much choice these days I play as many non shooter games as I do FPS!

The one thing that guts me is that Spector was given the opportunity to make a great game based on a Disney property and he fucked it up twice. I'm genuinely gutted at that, not in a 'Fuck you! Look at what you made asshole!' but I grew up with Castle Of Illusion, World Of Illusion etc and I would looooooooove a great new Mickey Mouse game. It might also make Disney a bit more cautious in the future though their properties are so strong hopefully it won't stop them from trying.

 

[Marcel]

But Spector went on a PR tour and hyped IW up like crazy before the release so he's just as stained as Harvey Smith, failed to redeem himself twice, and is now hanging back and talking shit from retirement.

Earlier I agreed with everyone that when you make trash, you can't talk trash. Warren should have not said anything at all as Epic Mickey is still the albatross around his neck.

 

[antitrop]

blasfeemer, Raven live on.

In name, only.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

The game being venerable in it's genre will not excuse it if he's mediocre and boring. A lot of FPS games turn out to be mediocre so Warren lashed out at the newest target is all.

The majority of creations in any art field are mediocre.

 

[Kimawolf]

I agree Warren. This generation just like the last it seems.

 

[TwEE-N-Toast]

Man the gaming market on consoles is and has been flooding for a while with adolescent male power fantasies.

For people who live for those games they can't see a problem at all.

 

[todahawk]

It was a good game, though. RIP Raven.

*hangs head*

one of my fav devs of all time... they hooked me deep with Heretic and Hexen.

 

[Hot Coldman]

The game being venerable in it's genre will not excuse it if he's mediocre and boring. A lot of FPS games turn out to be mediocre so Warren lashed out at the newest target is all.

That's what I just said- "there's no excuse for it being bad". But it can have a trailer with a dude wielding twin shotguns in front of a Nazi death robot, because it's Wolfenstein.

 

[Petrae]

What a whiner. Regardless of what he's done in his past, Spector != the world. Still stung because the world proved that it didn't need a second Epic Mickey game, he presumes that he can tell us what else the world doesn't need.

Do we need more Mario games? Do we need more Halo games? Do we need more Assassin's Creed games? It's not a question of need. It's up to publishers to convince us of what we want or what we don't want.

 

[Majanew]

Yes, Warren. Tell me what I want.

 

[iamvin22]

The world didn't need Epic Mickey, either

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Reading this while listening to the Blood Dragon OST is an odd experience.

 

[marrec]

The majority of creations in any art field are mediocre.

This is beside the point though isn't it? Transformers (the movies) is worse than mediocre and earns hundreds of millions of dollars and is lambasted from every side for good reason.

People relying on established content tropes to push out mediocre product that will sell just well enough for a profit are poisonous to creative industries... but also necessary.

 

[Kusagari]

I think it's hilarious you suggest he didn't try to make good games. He tried and failed, it happens. Maybe it means he should stop trying. But it doesn't mean he doesn't know what makes worthwhile games.

The problem there is you thinking Spector gets to decide what is worthwhile. Spector thinks another FPS, and we have no idea how good or unique the new Wolfenstein might be, isn't worthwhile. Others will disagree.

His opinion isn't law.

And frankly considering he continues to defend Epic Mickey, I don't much trust his opinion on what IS worthwhile.

 

[Owzers]

Even generic FPS's might have some sort of value...

Gamefly needs to have something to sell for 8.99 after 3 months?

 

[Secret Fawful]

People need to get over Warren Spector. I respect his opinion. A person can still have valid opinions on video games after making video games that bombed. That is a possibility.

 

[marrec]

That's what I just said- "there's no excuse for it being bad". But it can have a trailer with a dude wielding twin shotguns in front of a Nazi death robot, because it's Wolfenstein.

There is no excuse for that terrible trailer!

Euuuugh.

People need to get over Warren Spector. I respect his opinion. A person can still have valid opinions on video games after making video games that bombed. That is a possibility.

You should have seen the thread earlier when people were agreeing with Peter Molyneux because he was trashing Microsoft.

Warren only has to shit on Xbox and there will be plenty of people agreeing with him.

 

[pelican]

Failed game developer living on past glories becomes cynical. What a surprise.

Move along.

 

[MYE]

Warren Spector isn't even a good game creator. The first few First person games that "he made" (Thief, Deus ex, etc.) had a very talented team behind them including people like Ken Levine (Bioshock dude) and he just rode on their talents.

Deus Ex:Invisible War, epic mickey, and epic mickey 2 were all terrible.

Your posts are always a laugh

 

[Risette]

And I'd argue there's more worth to flawed games that try to make something new work than perfect imitations with a new skin.

Then your argument would be wrong.

 

[Remachinate]

The problem there is you thinking Spector gets to decide what is worthwhile. Spector thinks another FPS, and we have no idea how good or unique the new Wolfenstein might be, isn't worthwhile. Others will disagree.

His opinion isn't law.

I never said as much. He has an opinion that people can agree and disagree with. But my point is that his opinion isn't invalidated by his failure to make his more recent games as fun as they are interesting.

Then your argument would be wrong.

K, enjoy the sea of CoD in 2020.

 

[Secret Fawful]

Then your argument would be wrong.

No it wouldn't. There's far more worth to flawed games with grand ideas.

 

[Petrae]

People need to get over Warren Spector. I respect his opinion. A person can still have valid opinions on video games after making video games that bombed. That is a possibility.

People have as much freedom to disagree with Spector as you have in agreeing with him.

Personally, I see his post-Epic Mickey reactions and whining as sour grapes because consumers preferred games with more violent content to his own creations. Now he's setting about to tell us what we need and don't need.

 

[LiK]

Did the world need TWO bad Mickey Mouse games? No, no they don't.

 

[partyphone]

Spector's track record should have no bearing on his statement. The problem with it is that it's way too early to make that kind of judgment about the game.