Trickster
Member
Not that specific example no, but I definitely get the problem. I was just thinking of the emotes themselves, without the context of the disgusting ways people actually use them on twitch
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We Need to Talk About Digital Blackface in Reaction GIFs
- Thread starter Aizo
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Not that specific example no, but I definitely get the problem. I was just thinking of the emotes themselves, without the context of the disgusting ways people actually use them on twitch
Maintenance
Member
Ding ding ding. People skip self reflection and go straight to defensiveness even when the article might only be speaking tangentially to their own behaviors.
metalslimer
Member
It's amazing how the so called liberals and allies around here have such a knee-jerk reaction to even considering the concept the article brings up. Instead white fragility rears its ugly head repeatedly
MrMysterio
Member
I might be imagining things but wasn't there also a discussion about the "didn't read lol" gifs showing mostly black people?
Think the article's title is also very appropriate.
Also, taking a minute to think about your trigger-happy usage of gifs versus potentially feeding structural racism is not that difficult a decision as lots of people in here are making it out to be.
I'm really starting to wonder if a lot of people just never felt as "other" before and simply can't relate to some topics at all, and no amount of arguing will ever bridge that difference. Taking offence when somebody is trying to discuss structural oppression is just completely mindblowing to me.
Think the article's title is also very appropriate.
Also, taking a minute to think about your trigger-happy usage of gifs versus potentially feeding structural racism is not that difficult a decision as lots of people in here are making it out to be.
I'm really starting to wonder if a lot of people just never felt as "other" before and simply can't relate to some topics at all, and no amount of arguing will ever bridge that difference. Taking offence when somebody is trying to discuss structural oppression is just completely mindblowing to me.
kamineko
Does his best thinking in the flying car
I get the article. I'm a white southern man.
So I do say things like "y'all" and "folks" online, because I talk like that in real life. Everybody around me does.
I grew up in a heavily segregated county. At the time I was in school, there were seven school districts in the county. This is not a heavily populated county. The "city" has only 100,000. The county has all of those school districts in the name of "soft" segregation (post Brown v BoE).
Only one district had more than a couple of black people. In fact, that district had over 60% black people. That was my school district. We always laughed at the students at the all-white schools who fetishized the rap scene. They attempted to emulate the fashions and mannerisms which they saw on TV. They could've just driven a couple of miles and met some black people, but they found actual black people frightening. Which is their fault, but also their parent's fault, who had gone out of their way to "shelter" their children from diversity.
Anyhow, where I came from, it was easy to tell those folks who thought blackness was a valuable cultural asset, but a profoundly negative human trait. I use GIFs that have black people in them, of course, but I always put it to this test: "do I sound like a person who has never even invited a black person to their house?" Or, alternately: "Would I post this on Facebook, where the many people who knew me from school could see it?"
It's not hard. In most cases, it's pretty clear what is authentic self-expression. And what isn't.
So I do say things like "y'all" and "folks" online, because I talk like that in real life. Everybody around me does.
I grew up in a heavily segregated county. At the time I was in school, there were seven school districts in the county. This is not a heavily populated county. The "city" has only 100,000. The county has all of those school districts in the name of "soft" segregation (post Brown v BoE).
Only one district had more than a couple of black people. In fact, that district had over 60% black people. That was my school district. We always laughed at the students at the all-white schools who fetishized the rap scene. They attempted to emulate the fashions and mannerisms which they saw on TV. They could've just driven a couple of miles and met some black people, but they found actual black people frightening. Which is their fault, but also their parent's fault, who had gone out of their way to "shelter" their children from diversity.
Anyhow, where I came from, it was easy to tell those folks who thought blackness was a valuable cultural asset, but a profoundly negative human trait. I use GIFs that have black people in them, of course, but I always put it to this test: "do I sound like a person who has never even invited a black person to their house?" Or, alternately: "Would I post this on Facebook, where the many people who knew me from school could see it?"
It's not hard. In most cases, it's pretty clear what is authentic self-expression. And what isn't.
I think stuff like this is actually harder when your group of friends is very diverse.
People tend to take over expression and gifs from their group of friends.
I never used Beyonce gifs until my friends introduced me to it.
And I don't think that should be prevented either. It does make it harder to draw the line though.
Especially with gifs. I don't think me keeping it white would be nice either.
I also realise that plenty online people probably use it in nefarious ways.
Perhaps this is just something that will sort itself out when we deal with racism on a higher level.
People tend to take over expression and gifs from their group of friends.
I never used Beyonce gifs until my friends introduced me to it.
And I don't think that should be prevented either. It does make it harder to draw the line though.
Especially with gifs. I don't think me keeping it white would be nice either.
I also realise that plenty online people probably use it in nefarious ways.
Perhaps this is just something that will sort itself out when we deal with racism on a higher level.
People are all for equality until it means they need to reflect on their own behavior, or God forbid, give something up.
Good article. Shame people are not reading it.
excelsiorlef
Member
Consider that some people here's first instinctual reaction to this article and thread was to rush and post a gif of a black person.
SliceSabre
Banned
I don't understand the people in the thread saying "Think for a moment before you post that gif if it is problematic."
This seems to assume I or another person will reconsider or even think it problematic in the first place and once you decide it isn't you probably aren't ever going to think about it again because you have decided the posting gifs with black people in them isn't problematic.
Posting gifs with black people in them isn't problematic by the way and I'm honestly confused by what the article is even trying to say here.
This seems to assume I or another person will reconsider or even think it problematic in the first place and once you decide it isn't you probably aren't ever going to think about it again because you have decided the posting gifs with black people in them isn't problematic.
Posting gifs with black people in them isn't problematic by the way and I'm honestly confused by what the article is even trying to say here.
Airola
Member
Initially I thought this was about people digitally creating black faces to white people.
It wasn't and the first gif in this thread was pretty much the actual face I made which was quite hilarious to see.
I would think that people using gifs mostly use them just because of the expression in the gif feels like it's one of the best possible expressions about whatever the subject there might be, and the blackness itself hasn't got anything to do with it.
Of course the context means the world here too. So depending on where the gif is a reply to it could have been made in purely racist reasons. Say, there would be a thread about a someone doing something stupid and it happens that it was a black person who did the the stupid thing and then a person would come and post a gif with a black person making a silly face. That's very probably made with racist intentions.
But in general I think these are pretty neutral with the skin color and are made purely if the person just happens to make an expression that seems to have the core of what a certain reaction feels like.
It wasn't and the first gif in this thread was pretty much the actual face I made which was quite hilarious to see.
I would think that people using gifs mostly use them just because of the expression in the gif feels like it's one of the best possible expressions about whatever the subject there might be, and the blackness itself hasn't got anything to do with it.
Of course the context means the world here too. So depending on where the gif is a reply to it could have been made in purely racist reasons. Say, there would be a thread about a someone doing something stupid and it happens that it was a black person who did the the stupid thing and then a person would come and post a gif with a black person making a silly face. That's very probably made with racist intentions.
But in general I think these are pretty neutral with the skin color and are made purely if the person just happens to make an expression that seems to have the core of what a certain reaction feels like.
Man that title really brought out the knee-jerk and the drive-by posters. If the thread e bothers you read it, realize no one will probably call you racist if you don't post racist gifs or use them in a racist context. This article isn't going to be the authority on their use and the author sure as hell can't be the authority on GIFs either. It's just something to think about.
However, I think the "Asablackman" part of the article is far more interesting (and a shittier practice online) than the GIF part but there seems to have been very little amount of people who read that far.
However, I think the "Asablackman" part of the article is far more interesting (and a shittier practice online) than the GIF part but there seems to have been very little amount of people who read that far.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
As a black man that cares about alot of this stuff.......I gotta say this person has got to chill. We HAVE TO ALLOW WHITE PEOPLE TO ADMIRE US!
There's nothing wrong with white people using black people in reaction gifs. We are expressive on TV. Cool! And it's not like we aren't using white people in our gifs to show our feelings also.
And YES I"m actually a REAL BLACK MAN lol.
There's nothing wrong with white people using black people in reaction gifs. We are expressive on TV. Cool! And it's not like we aren't using white people in our gifs to show our feelings also.
And YES I"m actually a REAL BLACK MAN lol.
Is this from Suits?
nkarafo
Member
Yeah, i don't think anyone ever thought about the person's race before posting a gif. It's the reaction and expression that dictates what gif to use (unless the topic is specific about races i suppose). Also, i'm pretty sure if people didn't use gifs with black people in them at all, it would be called racist anyway because "what's wrong with black people and you don't want to post gifs that induce them"?
Good discussion for the first couple pages, then the pointless derail by Izumi.
This is a good reminder for those of us who care, but not gonna do much for those who were unaware of what blackface actually is.
Just looks like a lot of people reacting to an accusation of racism, instead of exploring the nuances of the topic.
This is a good reminder for those of us who care, but not gonna do much for those who were unaware of what blackface actually is.
Just looks like a lot of people reacting to an accusation of racism, instead of exploring the nuances of the topic.
Legit put that emote on my list of blocked words on Twitch. It's almost solely used for racism.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
PixelatedBookake
Junior Member
Ya know, this is a topic I've been thinking about for months of how do you know someone is black online or is pretending to be, but never knew how to express. I'm black and have always been self-concious of "being black" online due to being bullied by the more popular black kids in my school and feeling unsure about liking certain things or saying certain things to not be like the bullies.
It's hard to identify yourself as such online due to how popular black culture is with just about everybody.
It's hard to identify yourself as such online due to how popular black culture is with just about everybody.
Funyarinpa
Member
I don't think this is a problem in regular context.
Popular reaction gifs are often used to communicate a popular sentiment expressed very well by that gif. They're divorced from the identity of the people using them.
Even with less popular gifs, the black identity of the person in the gif is usually not relevant to the reason the gif was used.
So using a gif with a black person in it, to me, isn't play-acting as a black person. Because unlike blackface, the gifs you use aren't meant to change your appearance to resemble a black person or specifically paint your behaviour as "black".
The assumption that a person who uses gifs featuring black people is most likely black is not a universal or objective assumption, and from the limited amount I've read of the article, that assumption seems to be the crux of the argument. People don't post gifs with black people in them to act like black people or resemble them, but to convey an (universal) emotion.
Popular reaction gifs are often used to communicate a popular sentiment expressed very well by that gif. They're divorced from the identity of the people using them.
Even with less popular gifs, the black identity of the person in the gif is usually not relevant to the reason the gif was used.
So using a gif with a black person in it, to me, isn't play-acting as a black person. Because unlike blackface, the gifs you use aren't meant to change your appearance to resemble a black person or specifically paint your behaviour as "black".
The assumption that a person who uses gifs featuring black people is most likely black is not a universal or objective assumption, and from the limited amount I've read of the article, that assumption seems to be the crux of the argument. People don't post gifs with black people in them to act like black people or resemble them, but to convey an (universal) emotion.
cr0w
Old Member
Damn, is "y'all" considered appropriation now? Having grown up partially in Mississippi and Texas, I guess I'm fucked then.
Anyway, personal rule of thumb, having been blessed to grow up surrounded by people of multiple backgrounds/races: if I wouldn't say it in front of the people I know personally, I won't say it online. Addendum to that: if it's something I have to feel "comfortable" enough around people I know to say, I won't say it online. It's not really a hard rule to follow.
Not that I would demand everyone else follow that guideline, of course, because I'm not too interested in policing what other people say. If they do something stupid, it'll bite them in the end. You'll be a lot happier if you focus on fixing the one person you actually can.
Express yourself however you see fit. Life's too short to waste time worrying about how others will perceive you. That doesn't mean freely be an asshole, of course, but at the end of the day what does it matter what someone online thinks of you?
MarkMclovin
Member
What's wrong with posting a gif of a black person?
Thelonelykoopa
Member
"Today in history marks a mass increase in interracial marriage among couples to help ensure their future children have the privilege of the access to the widest selection of reaction Gifs on the Internet. "
UncleSporky
Member
Yeah, this is another side to the discussion that I haven't seen much of. As long as the majority of use cases aren't racist garbage, it's a positive thing to see all these black gifs across the internet. It encourages thinking of blackness as a default, a sign of normalization of black culture.
Makes me think of that weird Knuckles' feminist statement thread from the other day. "Calling attention to the breaking of norms undermines the concept by implying it's an exception"...well no one needs to call attention to the "exceptional" nature of black gifs. They're the norm! They're one indication that blackness is becoming a lot more accepted and admired.
This is another one of those things where my knee jerk reaction is to say, "that's ridiculous", but the more I think about it, I can see the more sinister side of certain applications. It's something to watch out for, at least in how I use gifs.
The perspective is good, the article has value.
The perspective is good, the article has value.
excelsiorlef
Member
Nothing in general but if you rush to post one after a perceived slight from an article about issues with gifs of black people it can be a little suspect.
Like it comes off as trying to stick it to the author
Well it's definitely okay to disagree with the author. But I agree slightly, in that you can look at certain twitter threads and see how it is really used.
But there is no real answer here. You can't restrict the use of gifs and as of right now I don't think people are offended by the gifs themselves. The people posting maliciously will do so anyway. Everyone else shouldn't worry.
There are far too many common memes that are used regardless of race and such gifs are the by-product of what ends up on TV or YouTube etc.
uncelestial
Member
Yes. That's some softshoe bullshit and always has been.I complained about this shit waaaay back when people were spamming this shitty faux-ebonics minstreled-ass gif
It's not a new complaint.
Is it so hard to imagine that black people aren't laughing with you when you use images like this, people?
God I hate this gif.I complained about this shit waaaay back when people were spamming this shitty faux-ebonics minstreled-ass gif
It's not a new complaint.
As a white man with a black man avatar, I've never really thought about gifs like this. But now that it's pointed out, I can see why someone would give a side-eye about certain gif usage. Good article.
Audioboxer
Member
"Digital Blackface" is such a terrible way to word this, given the seriousness of what blackface actually is (as a European with the history of it here). That sits at a borderline over the top way to describe this.
As for GIFs, I'd like to think 95% of people when they want to express something via "video" (as that what GIFs really are) just search for the emotion they want and post what they find the funniest/most appropriate. I doubt most people search for "white guy laughing" or "black guy laughing" instead of "guy laughing" (unless you're going for a specific actor/image you can't remember the actor's or show/movies name). When searching for a GIF you tend to get the most viral or popular stuff first, and that can explain why it might tip to an over usage of a black person, or a white person, or whatever person it is. I mean, think of the most popular ones, someone like Michael Jordan is going to be up there, so he's seen more often than others. People tend to favour being quick to express themselves, and not sitting through pages and pages of GIFs (5~10 mins) just to find something specific.
The rise of GIF posting is probably more to do with Twitter/FB and even iOS/Android keyboards including GIFs for people to express themselves. I'm not sure if asking people to veer towards only using emojis/gifs that represent their own skin colour will be all that productive a lesson to try and teach. A lot of human emotion/expression is supposed to be spontaneous, so people don't think long and hard about the skin colour of the person in the GIF they are posting, but more-so how suitable the reaction (or acting) is for whatever emotion they are wanting to convey. Such as laughter, sadness, anger, etc.
Therefore in the majority of situations it's simply human beings using human expression. An evolved form of "LOL", given the world isn't on 56k dial-up anymore and videos (GIFs) can be loaded quickly. Of course, overuse of GIFs can be annoying, but, it's the internet, the majority of it is annoying! And yes, as others in here have said, something like Twitch chat does end up becoming a racist play-out of using memes and GIFs on purpose to express abuse. That's not the same as someone simply using The Wire actors in GIF format for a joke/good use of an expression.
As for GIFs, I'd like to think 95% of people when they want to express something via "video" (as that what GIFs really are) just search for the emotion they want and post what they find the funniest/most appropriate. I doubt most people search for "white guy laughing" or "black guy laughing" instead of "guy laughing" (unless you're going for a specific actor/image you can't remember the actor's or show/movies name). When searching for a GIF you tend to get the most viral or popular stuff first, and that can explain why it might tip to an over usage of a black person, or a white person, or whatever person it is. I mean, think of the most popular ones, someone like Michael Jordan is going to be up there, so he's seen more often than others. People tend to favour being quick to express themselves, and not sitting through pages and pages of GIFs (5~10 mins) just to find something specific.
The rise of GIF posting is probably more to do with Twitter/FB and even iOS/Android keyboards including GIFs for people to express themselves. I'm not sure if asking people to veer towards only using emojis/gifs that represent their own skin colour will be all that productive a lesson to try and teach. A lot of human emotion/expression is supposed to be spontaneous, so people don't think long and hard about the skin colour of the person in the GIF they are posting, but more-so how suitable the reaction (or acting) is for whatever emotion they are wanting to convey. Such as laughter, sadness, anger, etc.
Therefore in the majority of situations it's simply human beings using human expression. An evolved form of "LOL", given the world isn't on 56k dial-up anymore and videos (GIFs) can be loaded quickly. Of course, overuse of GIFs can be annoying, but, it's the internet, the majority of it is annoying! And yes, as others in here have said, something like Twitch chat does end up becoming a racist play-out of using memes and GIFs on purpose to express abuse. That's not the same as someone simply using The Wire actors in GIF format for a joke/good use of an expression.
The Greek Freak
Member
I'm mixed and my favorite gifs are over the top black reactions and *white people* comedy gifs. Some people using gifs as an ineffective boring way to show their racist ass isn't changing what I enjoy. Fuck em.
So where does this stop? Am I as a white man still allowed to listen to "black music" or is that some form of blackface, too?
I can understand the argument, but even without GIFs this has been going on for ages. Since it's inception people have been lying about their identities on the internet for various purposes. This article is like shouting into a storm, everybody knows this is going on, but you literally can't do anything about it.
I can understand the argument, but even without GIFs this has been going on for ages. Since it's inception people have been lying about their identities on the internet for various purposes. This article is like shouting into a storm, everybody knows this is going on, but you literally can't do anything about it.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Having read the article, I'll give my opinion.
GIF's, especially the reaction gif kind, are used in a way that the posters reaction is characterized in a moving picture. The poster sees the reaction gif person or thing (cat or dog, etc.) as an extension of themselves. I don't think white supremacists would actually use a reaction gif that isn't clearly derogatory in nature. Black face minstrels weren't characters the actors identified with. It should be celebrated that people can identify with a black person. Not enough diversity is a problem often mentioned in video games and it is lamented that some people don't want to play as a PoC character, but isn't a reaction gif identifying with another person? The more questionable stuff like hairweavepulling.gif originate from something pointed at and made fun of in the black community. That's a complicated issue since it was popularized within the black community, is used to shame, but at the same time originates from the notion that a black woman is clearly wearing fake hair. I very rarely see gifs of that except maybe on RIP PopGAF, so I can't say whether that is a wide spread problem or even if the poster of the gif is black or not.
GIF's, especially the reaction gif kind, are used in a way that the posters reaction is characterized in a moving picture. The poster sees the reaction gif person or thing (cat or dog, etc.) as an extension of themselves. I don't think white supremacists would actually use a reaction gif that isn't clearly derogatory in nature. Black face minstrels weren't characters the actors identified with. It should be celebrated that people can identify with a black person. Not enough diversity is a problem often mentioned in video games and it is lamented that some people don't want to play as a PoC character, but isn't a reaction gif identifying with another person? The more questionable stuff like hairweavepulling.gif originate from something pointed at and made fun of in the black community. That's a complicated issue since it was popularized within the black community, is used to shame, but at the same time originates from the notion that a black woman is clearly wearing fake hair. I very rarely see gifs of that except maybe on RIP PopGAF, so I can't say whether that is a wide spread problem or even if the poster of the gif is black or not.
cr0w
Old Member
The article has a good point in emphasizing the white appropriation of black culture on the internet, but I'm not sure if reaction gifs are the most prevalent example of it. I would point more towards r/Blackpeopletwitter, its language, and memes as a more significant source of images and ideas ripe for white appropriation, mostly since language is more colorless, or perhaps more correctly a-racial, in a way that allows one to take a term or idea and make it one's own without having to inherently acknowledge its source culture to the same degree as in a reaction gif. It's a serious problem though, and most likely one without a real solution
Chuckie
Member
shawnbuddy
Member
There is a pretty big problem with digital blackface when people pretend to be a black person to shore up a point or make a pretend ally for some cause. GamerGate was rife with them when it was in its "Not Your Shield" phase, almost as many as fake women.
But I don't know how you'd call out someone for using digital blackface for using a gif with a black person in it, unless the gif is racist or racist in context somehow. How do you know a person's motive is appropriation and it's not just the gif that best suits what they want to say? Take the "Yo Dawg" meme, that's a very specific idea that doesn't have a lot to do with the fact that Xzibit is black. Also not sure it's a good idea to promote a chilling and segregationist effect where people (OK, just some liberals) are afraid to use gifs of people who aren't their own race.
So I guess then it's just something to think about that might be a concern? It's worth considering if you are using a lot of black gifs and crafting an inauthentic online persona.
But I don't know how you'd call out someone for using digital blackface for using a gif with a black person in it, unless the gif is racist or racist in context somehow. How do you know a person's motive is appropriation and it's not just the gif that best suits what they want to say? Take the "Yo Dawg" meme, that's a very specific idea that doesn't have a lot to do with the fact that Xzibit is black. Also not sure it's a good idea to promote a chilling and segregationist effect where people (OK, just some liberals) are afraid to use gifs of people who aren't their own race.
So I guess then it's just something to think about that might be a concern? It's worth considering if you are using a lot of black gifs and crafting an inauthentic online persona.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
I feel the lede about people intentionally lying about their race for the sake of pretending to speak on authority concerning issues of race is a bit buried here. I remember seeing multiple proven examples of this happening when gamergate started becoming a thing for example.
afternoon delight
Member
You're great and you have immaculate taste, sir or madam!
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