Gentleman Jack
Member
Damn that looks like a good time. I should go in person one day.
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Why I Don't Support Games Done Quick
- Thread starter Zombie James
- Start date
Damn that looks like a good time. I should go in person one day.
thesaucetastic
Unconfirmed Member
The only issue I have with GDQ management is when they ban runners for stupid shit. Things like Werster makes sense (because who steals hotel key cards, the fuck?), but things like softbanning Big Jon or not allowing Distortion2 to run the second Dark Souls 3 DLC when he specifically stated that in his submission, but not telling him until the day before they released schedule after he sunk 50 hours into practicing that second DLC, is really dumb. They didn't even own up to making a mistake in Distortion2's case.
I do agree that it's gotten a little more clinical and corporate, but I appreciate the effort they make to keeping it safe for kids and others to watch. Definitely don't want people yelling "fucking niggers" just because some dude would up his donation just to hear that said.
I do agree that it's gotten a little more clinical and corporate, but I appreciate the effort they make to keeping it safe for kids and others to watch. Definitely don't want people yelling "fucking niggers" just because some dude would up his donation just to hear that said.
I remember somebody posted it and simply saying "I found this interesting" as a means of discrediting the GDQ staff at this past AGDQ when the discussion was all about those jackasses that got permabanned from GDQ for being frequent idiots.
I only ever donate during SGDQ due to living in the UK and the US cancer charity doesn't really have any affect over here. Instead when AGDQ is on I just donate to Cats Protection
You don't know what you're talking about man. Asking people to give attempts for serious times would be really shitty to watch. A lot of speedrunners reset the game over and over if something goes even slightly wrong in the beginning. Runners on AGDQ constantly talk about things being marathon safe or they will save right before trying something risky. Having a backup save is just another tier of these precautions so they don't get to a point and go 'oh I had one shot at this skip and I missed it so runs now over I guess'. I guarantee you that runners there hate using a fallback cartridge and only do so as a last resort because it shows a failure on their part to do the thing they said they'd do.
AGDQ isn't an event for the grand championships of speedruns like EVO or something. It is an event that is meant to be entertaining so people watch and people donate. This is why the time isn't put up against a check for the world record like it is when they actually try for it. IIRC the world record time isn't even on the screen, just an estimate of how long the run is going to be. The reason they have the couch and the person running talk about what they are doing is because like everyone says it is an exhibition. It is for people who are new to speedrunning or who want to see games they may not be familiar with be speedrun. In the SMRPG speedrun, for example, they talk about Mack skip when they run it on their own but in the AGDQ stream, they'll talk about what it involves, why it is used, how risky it is etc. That would not be happening in a serious effort at a WR run.
So far this thread has been incredibly flimsy for reasons not to support Games Done Quick.
C.Olimar788
Member
I definitely wish they would drop the Prevent Cancer Foundation. Doctors Without Borders is a much better charity, and I wish they would just support it with both events instead of doing PCF for half of the time.
...But what on Earth is the rest of his criticism? It's a shame if any runners were treated poorly, but it's pretty understandable to want to choose runners for your generally-clean stream who won't throw out swears and the like. And the final point about... "censorship"... is just ludicrous. Which is probably why he only spends like ten second on it lol.
As for Bonesaw, his official stance on the matter seems to be that it was a bummer but fair, and that the reasons were likely outside of what the public saw. So.
...But what on Earth is the rest of his criticism? It's a shame if any runners were treated poorly, but it's pretty understandable to want to choose runners for your generally-clean stream who won't throw out swears and the like. And the final point about... "censorship"... is just ludicrous. Which is probably why he only spends like ten second on it lol.
As for Bonesaw, his official stance on the matter seems to be that it was a bummer but fair, and that the reasons were likely outside of what the public saw. So.
I think it has more to do with the age and gender of the average gamer:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/232383/gender-split-of-us-computer-and-video-gamers/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/189582/age-of-us-video-game-players-since-2010/
BumperLips
Member
Exactly what I'm thinking.
I understand stuff like Werster and the like.
But Bigjohn and (imo) the Bonesaw bans were bull. I just heard about the Distortion2 thing and that's horrible. Imagine if they cut that but allowed shit like the FF staircase run that happened a while ago (shit was awful) this year. If I was Dis2, I wouldnt even want to consider future ag/sgdqs.
Baron Von Beans
Member
Ah ok, thanks for the clarification. Yes, the video game community can be pretty harsh indeed. I was hoping it wasn't the event leaders/directors behind all that. People need to learn to grow up, dangit!
edit: can't spell words
exmachina64
Banned
You do know that's already happening, right?
https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=5435
Waddle Dee
Member
I also don't get the "it's less entertaining now" complaint, unless some of you think less swearing and snit talking means less fun? It really just depends on the games being run and if the runner is a nice person to watch speed run. My favorite runners are people like Darkspinesonic, who's just a really chill dude.
People aren't going to grow up as long as idiots post these stupid videos made by manchildren, unfortunately. These losers need to stop having a platform to speak on given to them.
People aren't going to grow up as long as idiots post these stupid videos made by manchildren, unfortunately. These losers need to stop having a platform to speak on given to them.
just watch Pokemon Yellow from 2011 or Pokemon Blue from 2012 and compare with any recent Pokemon run and you'll see the difference - or the sim city/maniac mansion run from sgdq 2012 (?). The complaint has nothing to do with swearing whatsoever.
chaobreaker
Member
I'm totally fine with people being critical when Game Dones Quick makes a mistake but making the events more palatable to a wider audience was never one of them. It's a charity event, after all.
Stream monsters aren't going to donate thousands of dollars anyway.
Stream monsters aren't going to donate thousands of dollars anyway.
Waddle Dee
Member
Not a fan of those games but I've been watching the events since 2012 and I haven't noticed a big decrease in quality. The runners that I love watching have still been going all these years and are just as entertaining as ever.
Simply put, yep.
polyh3dron
Banned
I, for one, disapprove of their userbase wanting to gleefully kill animals.
It's problematic.
It's problematic.
I get what you're saying, but the definition of censorship as told by Wikipedia is this:
As you can see, its pretty broad. In the case of AGDQ, they actively try to censor runners who use crass language and thats perfectly fine. But it seems to me like it is a form of censorship.
Gentleman Jack
Member
I kind of wish people who continue to deliver hot takes on the PCF would actually back up their claims with sources, because so far there has been more evidence than not in this thread that says exactly the opposite of what's presented in the video. They're 'slimy?' how? They should be dropped? Why?
They are rules that everyone who attends the event agrees to as a condition of their participation. Do you see any code of conduct as a form of censorship?
They are rules that everyone who attends the event agrees to as a condition of their participation. Do you see any code of conduct as a form of censorship?
I guess not. For some reason I had not considered there was an explicit code of conduct on what they could say. If they agreed to it, you're right, it shouldn't be considered censorship I don't think.
Save the frames.
godofcookery
Member
what a great talk, thanks for the link.
It's not censorship in any way whatsoever under that definition. "Suppression" requires a blanket form of suppression. AGDQ has rules it follows in terms of language usage. They are entitled to have those rules. If a streamer doesn't want to abide by those rules, they can go stream somewhere else. They are not being suppressed, they are not being kept off the internet, they are not being told how to behave on their own stream.
Save "censorship" for actual cases of censorship with actual malice behind them. Stop trivializing it by applying it to "please don't say the F-word" situations, because that is not what censorship is.
So what would you call what a live TV program does when it bleeps out the f-bombs due to FCC regulations? Is that not "censoring" it? Or when a painting depicting naked bodies is covered up in some contexts. I would think that the painting is being censored.
I just don't see how the word has an explicit negative connotation. I also don't understand your comment about blanket suppression.
Ritzboof
Member
i watched this video a while back. the only point that was offputting to me was a lack of transparency, and the fact that the dude that started the whole thing is getting paid an undisclosed amount and just sorta fell off the radar. its reasonable to wonder what the deal is considering AGDQ is one of PCFs biggest donors. i really dont know much beyond that, though, and thats all that was fishy to me
AGDQ becoming more mainstream and strict comes with how much popularity its gotten over the last few years. as things become more and more public, if you want to keep growing, you need to become family friendly. it isnt just a couple dudes speedrunning some games anymore, its a huge event that requires a lot of manpower and organization. people that work have to get paid, too, as much as youd like to think that much people are willing to do free labor. tough luck, its a big production now, not a little family where you can do whatever you want. you could say its censorship, but it has to do more with being appropriate for a larger demographic. i think its best this way, the event is more diverse every year
on the subject of big john getting slammed for his mario golf thing, i guess that kinda sucks, but it could be considered disruptive. it was light hearted, but yknow, taking jabs at the events management live on stream isnt really something you do
AGDQ becoming more mainstream and strict comes with how much popularity its gotten over the last few years. as things become more and more public, if you want to keep growing, you need to become family friendly. it isnt just a couple dudes speedrunning some games anymore, its a huge event that requires a lot of manpower and organization. people that work have to get paid, too, as much as youd like to think that much people are willing to do free labor. tough luck, its a big production now, not a little family where you can do whatever you want. you could say its censorship, but it has to do more with being appropriate for a larger demographic. i think its best this way, the event is more diverse every year
on the subject of big john getting slammed for his mario golf thing, i guess that kinda sucks, but it could be considered disruptive. it was light hearted, but yknow, taking jabs at the events management live on stream isnt really something you do
Zomba13
Member
Asking people not to swear or say certain things is different from covering it up after the fact. Like, covering up nudity on art is censorship but having an art competition where you can paint what you want except no titties isn't. If you want to paint titties you can, just not here. If you want to swear and use slurs while speed running go ahead on your own channel in you own time but not at an event that doesn't want that.
Like on NeoGAF, you can swear and say shit all you like but if you want to get into racist tirades and homophobic or transphobic slurs then you'll be forced to leave. It's part of the agreement for posting here.
If they let people say what they wanted and then bleeped it out in post then yeah, it would be censoring, but also it's their event and they can do what they want. There is freedom of speech but that doesn't mean everyone has to hear your speech.
toddhunter
Member
This sort of thinking is exactly why speed run marathons are moving in the right direction.
Mechanized
Member
Wasn't this exact thread made last year?
Maybe the video was hilighted in one of the official threads. Either way this video is juvenile bullshit.
Maybe the video was hilighted in one of the official threads. Either way this video is juvenile bullshit.
I'd say the difference is self censoring. The event isn't regulated by outside sources but the organizers themselves. They are trying to make a family friendly event. Just like Pixar films don't have cursing. Doesn't mean those have gone through censorship, but if a writer would add few fucks in the script for some odd reason, they would be taken out. More like people working on the project are aware that the target audience for it is kids too so those fucks don't appear in the first place.
I used to love GDQ but I've been watching less and less over the years because it just feels so soulless now. I think the last run I really enjoyed was Bonesaw's J&D run and they banned him from submitting after that. I understand it's for charity but its just less interesting to me as a viewer now. I couldn't even get excited during the metroid race last year because it was a train wreck.
MagnoSauce
Member
None of the criticisms of PCF made here are convincing. He claims that if you're anywhere else other than the United States, PCF doesn't benefit you directly. Not everyone expects a direct benefit from donating to charity, and the idea that American research doesn't benefit those internationally is silly.
$550,000 to "current officers, directors, trustees and key employees" for an entire year is not even close to excessive. I don't know how many people PCF has that fall into these categories, but if it's even a few, nobody is getting rich from GDQ donations. The term executive isn't even used on the document, he just uses that word for rhetoric purposes to get an emotional reaction out of viewers.
The fact that money is put back into the event isn't suspicious. Hiring professional audio for instance clearly drives a higher viewership. I've never see the claim that "volunteers" and Uyama get paid substantiated with evidence, it definitely isn't in this video.
That said, I pretty much agree with the other parts of the video on why it has gotten worse.
$550,000 to "current officers, directors, trustees and key employees" for an entire year is not even close to excessive. I don't know how many people PCF has that fall into these categories, but if it's even a few, nobody is getting rich from GDQ donations. The term executive isn't even used on the document, he just uses that word for rhetoric purposes to get an emotional reaction out of viewers.
The fact that money is put back into the event isn't suspicious. Hiring professional audio for instance clearly drives a higher viewership. I've never see the claim that "volunteers" and Uyama get paid substantiated with evidence, it definitely isn't in this video.
That said, I pretty much agree with the other parts of the video on why it has gotten worse.
Demoskinos
Member
Yeah, exactly. Its a showcase for entertainment its not like actual attempts to beat PB's or WR's
Hamster Plugin
Member
There was one particularly scummy thing that happened last AGDQ, and that was when they revealed the $125 prize package. Suddenly the stream started getting excited about tons of money coming in and they kept encouraging everyone to donate.
But there was a problem: the prize was restricted to select regions only. I was not in one of those countries, but the donation page didn't care and told me I was eligible for the prize if I paid $125, even though I wasn't. The only way to find out was to dig into the terms of service to find a list of countries actually eligible for the reward.
This most likely caused lots of people to pay for their $125 lottery ticket even though they had no chance of ever winning the prize. I think this is the first time when the event started to practically scam people. Even though the money went to charity, people were donating the exact amount required for the prize, so they were obviously expecting to have a chance of winning even though many of the donators didn't.
But there was a problem: the prize was restricted to select regions only. I was not in one of those countries, but the donation page didn't care and told me I was eligible for the prize if I paid $125, even though I wasn't. The only way to find out was to dig into the terms of service to find a list of countries actually eligible for the reward.
This most likely caused lots of people to pay for their $125 lottery ticket even though they had no chance of ever winning the prize. I think this is the first time when the event started to practically scam people. Even though the money went to charity, people were donating the exact amount required for the prize, so they were obviously expecting to have a chance of winning even though many of the donators didn't.
Not really bothered by anything mentioned in the video.
Strongly disagree with the claim that it's no longer entertaining.
AGDQ and SGDQ are easily my favorite streams. They're pretty much the only time I can stand to watch Twitch (with the awful chat hidden, thank god), and the VOD provides me with stuff to watch for weeks after each event.
I *like* the increased focus on being more professional and presentable, I think that comes with the territory when you're dealing with outside organizations and millions of dollars. I like that the runners and commentators always explain the tricks and how the mechanics work and are being manipulated, in stark contrast to something like DOTA2 commentary which is impenetrable unless you already know the game/that scene.
But I still feel like that there's enough of a casual atmosphere that it all ends up feeling fun, especially stuff like Pepsiman, etc.
The only time I've felt it went too far was the enthusiasm-killing quiet time during the last 4 way Super Metroid race near the end. Yes the Waluigi "joke" was getting really annoying by the end, but they didn't have to silence the audience entirely. But I feel like the organizers probably got the message given the huge negative reaction to that specific event online.
Strongly disagree with the claim that it's no longer entertaining.
AGDQ and SGDQ are easily my favorite streams. They're pretty much the only time I can stand to watch Twitch (with the awful chat hidden, thank god), and the VOD provides me with stuff to watch for weeks after each event.
I *like* the increased focus on being more professional and presentable, I think that comes with the territory when you're dealing with outside organizations and millions of dollars. I like that the runners and commentators always explain the tricks and how the mechanics work and are being manipulated, in stark contrast to something like DOTA2 commentary which is impenetrable unless you already know the game/that scene.
But I still feel like that there's enough of a casual atmosphere that it all ends up feeling fun, especially stuff like Pepsiman, etc.
The only time I've felt it went too far was the enthusiasm-killing quiet time during the last 4 way Super Metroid race near the end. Yes the Waluigi "joke" was getting really annoying by the end, but they didn't have to silence the audience entirely. But I feel like the organizers probably got the message given the huge negative reaction to that specific event online.
TheNamelessOne
Member
Remember. The old A/SGDQ was a whole lot of this much of the time. A couple of dudes sitting around saying nothing while everybody's asleep.
