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World War II war criminal emerges in Minnesota
- Thread starter Angelus Errare
- Start date
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Yeah, it's pretty lame that he felt he had to show us graphic imagery in order to get his point across.
I guess I can count on everyone here to protest outside the Turkish embassy next April?
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
And how many injustices are you not protesting? Does this mean you're not allowed to protest next April?
dude. Seriously. Our outrage is faux, but yours is real and on topic? You're a hypocrite and at least in this thread, an absolute disgrace.
Jack Scofield
Member
Who cares? It was so long ago.
Exterminieren
Banned
We see in this very thread a variety of responses showing a large degree of apathy towards the actions of the Nazis. The point will never be rammed home hard enough.
I guess we could count on you to call for the release of a hypothetical agent in the Armenian Massacre should one be brought to justice?
Are you freaking serious?
I think we have a winner.
Can I count on you to never childishly toss up an image showing a pile of severed heads on GAF ever again? No? There's your answer.
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
Think about it, dude.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
No, he's using Bombadil's view against him to make a point. Irony, in some fashion.
Exterminieren
Banned
WHOOSH
You shouldn't say something like that even if you're not serious or just trying to make a point.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Did they catch one of the guys who bombed dresden?
Soyongdori
Member
94 years old.
Just put him on mock trial, give him guilty verdict then send him back to elderly care.
I could tell even he doesn't give a fuck at this point.
Just put him on mock trial, give him guilty verdict then send him back to elderly care.
I could tell even he doesn't give a fuck at this point.
Exterminieren
Banned
Take it up with Bombadil, then.
Though you're being sarcastic, you're correct.
Nobody cares.
At least nobody who has the ability to do anything about it.
Indrid Cold1
Member
What the fuck are you talking about? I didn't say anybody should be executed. Isn't the guy who killed those civilians on trial right now? What's your point in bringing him up anyway? Your head's gone mate, you're chatting absolute shit.
CornBurrito
Member
Arguably, if the point of a justice system is to rehabilitate criminals then it is too late for justice to occur. The dude is 94.
However, if the point of the justice system is facilitating revenge or punishment then yeah.
Exterminieren
Banned
You don't seem content with this state of affairs. Why not?
User 100115
Banned
This thread is depressing as all hell. Seriously people. I can't even wrap my head around how fucked up this discussion is.
There's a pretty big difference between going to protest an embassy and willfully choosing to excuse a war criminal because of the amount of time that has passed.
The Armenian Genocide seems to be a pet issue for you, and until everyone is outraged about it you think we can't be mad at Nazis. A difference in opinion between the two shouldn't result in you getting upset, wanting to let this guy off, or calling others hypocrits. It should make you want to educate others or be an advocate for your cause when and where it's appropriate.
But it's easier to be pissy. It's your choice.
freenudemacusers
Member
I was gonna buy a ps4 instead of an Xbox One, but enough time has passed.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Awful..lol.
... You could say that.
I was pointing out the fact that a lot of the people who berated me for saying it was too late or that too much time had passed do the same thing concerning other tragedies that have occurred in history. Nobody really understood that.
Send a message for future generations we don't tolerate this fucking bullshit.
but we do
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
I wasn't aware we had people responsible for crimes during the Armenian genocide walking around and able to be arrested and tried immediately.
User 100115
Banned
I understand that the issue means a lot to you. You went through a lot. And no one in this thread is saying that it's not an important issue. But coming into a thread and screaming about how everyone is a hypocrite because they aren't also protesting about this issue or that issue is a very, very bad argument. By that logic, we are also all murderers because we don't give 100% of our paychecks to starving children.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Point to these people, please.
Bombadil won't answer this question, because he realizes that any answer to this question will expose him as a hypocrite. If he says no, then we can therefore conclude that any arguments of his have hinged purely on emotion, and his repetitive appeals to the general public's (lack of) awareness of the Armenian genocide are meaningless fallacies which only belie his own emotional prejudice, rather than any kind of substantive argument. If he says yes, then he is falling victim to the very thing which he is decrying, that is, the forbearance of justice in face of contemporary indifference. But if the sins of the past are not worth our time, then how we can possibly face those of the present?
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
It's because what you're saying is completely false. You brought up the Armenian massacres. Why don't you show me what people have said to make you think that people would gladly let criminals that partook in those crimes off because it's 'been too long'.
Point out somebody here who is against trying a direct perpetrator of genocide. Oherwise your outrage is even more "faux" by creating such a silly strawman argument.Faux outrage on the internet doesn't make you a more moral person than anyone else. No one said what he did was okay.
Just acknowledge that whatever "justice" is exacted on this person is really just a hollow gesture.
My grandparents survived the Armenian Genocide and spent the rest of their lives witnessing the indifference of the rest of the world. The President of the country I live in today shakes hands with the leader of the country that did this:
Here he is:
That very country's government disseminates material denying the genocide.
You're a game developer who works in a country that is founded on land violently wrested away from its natives.
How much thought do you give to these facts? Should we give the land back to the Native Americans? Should we give Ararat back to the Armenians?
What justice is there for them? But when some singular incident arises on the internet, some pathetic little man who evaded justice for 70 years is found, and you guys trumpet your morality.
It's all bullshit.
Is it bad that I'm not really sure what the punishment should be? Obviously he did horrible things, many people do in wars. However, a lifetime has past since the war already, and as far as we know, he left that part of his life behind. I feel as though you could be more creative with his sentence. Is there not something better you can put this man's final years toward then rotting in a prison? That probably is what he deserves though... :-/
Some of you with the mindset of "Eh, he's old. No biggie, gonna die anyway" should probably read some BOOKS (not Internet articles or tv documentaries) about the Nazi regime, concentration camps, etc. For a start, I recommend Auschwitz: A Doctors Eyewitness Account by Miklos Nyiszli
It doesn't matter how old this guy is, he needs to be held accountable for his crimes- whether he drops dead tomorrow or 15 years from now. I'm sure there are family members of his victims still alive today that would love to see him stand trial, and if convicted, executed.
It doesn't matter how old this guy is, he needs to be held accountable for his crimes- whether he drops dead tomorrow or 15 years from now. I'm sure there are family members of his victims still alive today that would love to see him stand trial, and if convicted, executed.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
You're trying to trap me or something?
I wouldn't do anything because anyone involved in the Armenian genocide would be more than a 100 years old.
And Fiction, I didn't come into this thread screaming anything.
What happened was a bunch of people came into the thread and said things like, "I can't believe that there are people who defend nazis" and "You guys must be fourteen" and "I would get banned if I said what I really thought of some of you."
And that's an attack on my character.
So I pointed out a hypocrisy. All the people acting high and mighty are very selective in the atrocities that they pay attention to, that they demand justice for. They get mad when I say it's too late for justice, but they know it to be true. How many American land-owning gaffers will give up their property to Native Americans? How many gaffers will demand the US government to officially recognize the Armenian Genocide? Nobody.
So stop attacking my position that it's too late for justice when so many of you will behave upon that logic concerning other atrocities.
According to the various pieces out there the last couple of days, this guy is not a war criminal YET. No records so far actually link this guy directly to a specific atrocity. What is known that he served in a Ukranian sympathizer unit and was then folded into the SS Galician and served as a company commander. A few formers members of this unit say that he was in command of a unit that was ordered to "liquidate" a village, and 40 or so people were massacred. The link to a war crime is so far just those couple of witnesses.
The guy, Michael Karkoc, even wrote a memoir in Ukranian about his time with these two units in the war in 1995. When he came to the United States, he said that he had worked for his father during the war and then worked at a labor camp for the final two.
Not very smart, Mr Karkoc
The guy, Michael Karkoc, even wrote a memoir in Ukranian about his time with these two units in the war in 1995. When he came to the United States, he said that he had worked for his father during the war and then worked at a labor camp for the final two.
Not very smart, Mr Karkoc
HurricaneJesus
Member
bombadil, you are disgusting.
Exterminieren
Banned
Please tell me you see the difference between recognising an atrocity that was far enough in history that the perpetrators are all dead, and actually bringing a tangible (suspected) war criminal to account.
As it happens, I do agree that the US Government should recognise the Armenian Massacre as a genocide, and chastise Turkey in the hardest possible terms for denying it. However, even if I was unaware of it, it doesn't change the fact that you're using this case to call us all hypocrites for wanting this actual case to come to the courts, despite the clear lack of relevance.
I should imagine that most would favour conviction for anyone who was part of an unlawful massacre. If some hypothetical 120-year old war criminal who took part in the Armenian Massacre were to be dug out of hiding, I'd support his conviction and trial.
Let me know when you find an American gaffer who stole some property from a Native American.
I'm sure you'll respond "that's my point, it's all in the past." But this guy is still alive and able to answer to his crimes, and that is the cutoff point. There is no hypocrisy. You're comparing an individual to an abstraction, and that makes you disingenuous. Who exactly are we supposed to bring to justice?
I don't think it's an attack on your character by comparing your logic to a 14 year old. It could be a very useful comparison. Who else would find trying an actual Nazi for crimes he directly committed with the US recognizing that Armenian stuff, or Americans giving up their property to Native Americans?
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