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[ComputerMKII]

It'd be interesting to know since when the statute of limitation exists and why it was implemented. Anyway, from a natural law/axiomatic point of view, nothing seems to justify it.

That said, you'd only be pushing the boundaries further. Nobody would accept judging a three thousand years-old crime.

 

[Stinkles]

It'd be interesting to know since when the statute of limitation exists and why it was implemented. Anyway, from an a natural law/axiomatic point of view, nothing seems to justify it.

That said, you'd only be pushing the boundaries further. Nobody would accept judging a three thousand years-old crime.

they would if it was still illegal and the perpetrator was still alive. Both of which are true in this case.

 

[sleeping_dragon]

I should note that ultimately no one was punished for the My Lai Massacre.

In fact, with the exception of one guy who did 3 years of house arrest for 22 murders, all charges were dropped, and only one officer ultimately stood trial.

The US' record on war crimes is not exactly stellar. That's not even including all the innocent victims of droning since 9/11.

Yeah where's the people that responsible for murdering my people during the Vietnam War? Bloody American double standard.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

I dont understand.Because he's old and other bad things happened in life he shouldnt go punished?

 

[TacticalFox88]

I dont understand.Because he's old and other bad things happened in life he shouldnt go punished?

Not at all. He should be punished. But keeping it real, is it really?

The goal of justice should be rehabilitation (if you're Norway) or just being removed as a threat to society.

Neither of which applies to him, due to his age.

The question isn't SHOULD he be punished, but HOW.

Unless you consider his reputation in his community irreparably damaged, even after his death, fitting, then, sure.

 

[HiiiLife]

You know it's all bad when Gaf defends the Nazi.

 

[Blood Diamonds]

How dare this piece of shit live as long as he did.

okay this made me lol

 

[squall23]

Why is it that whenever we have news about a Nazi in modern times, we all go into riot mode and say he should be punished but when a Japanese politician visits the graves of war criminals and another says comfort women were necessary, nobody gives a shit?

 

[isoquant]

If I anyone in Ausgaf is interested in this topic, I'd recommend locating a copy of "A Case to Answer: The Story of Australia's First European War Crimes Prosecution". Such a great book.

At the end of World War II, legislation was passed in Australia to allow Australian courts to prosecute Australian citizens guilty of war crimes in Europe, instead of extraditing them to the country where the crimes were committed.

As far as I know, nothing much was done with the legislation until the early 1990s, when there was a big push to identify ex-Nazis living in the community and finally bring them to justice (before the last of them died). The only case that ever proceeded to trial was that of Ivan Polyukhovich - accused of being involved in the mass executions of Jews in Poland.

First, Polyukhovich unsuccessfully challenged the constitutionality of the Act before the High Court. Then millions and millions of dollars were spent actually trying to prosecute the guy. The main problem the prosecutors faced was that 50 years on, most of their evidence had deteriorated, and the witnesses (all flown over from Poland for the occasion, most having never left their tiny village) all gave discrepant testimonies (basically because they were old and senile and couldn't remember exactly what happened). A jury in Adelaide took less than an hour to acquit him.

 

[EVOL 100%]

Why is it that whenever we have news about a Nazi in modern times, we all go into riot mode and say he should be punished but when a Japanese politician visits the graves of war criminals and another says comfort women were necessary, nobody gives a shit?

Because people tend to pay more attention to things that they are more invested in. It's human nature. You think Asians as a whole give nearly as much as a shit what happens to Nazis as they do what happens to Japanese war criminals?

Why bring this up anyway? Should I not care about what the Nazis did and get all pissy when people get angry at them, because apparently what my grandparents went through is more important than what went on the west at the time?

 

[isoquant]

Why is it that whenever we have news about a Nazi in modern times, we all go into riot mode and say he should be punished but when a Japanese politician visits the graves of war criminals and another says comfort women were necessary, nobody gives a shit?

I can't speak about the first incident, but people certainly did give a shit about the 'comfort women were necessary' remark:

By this week, Hashimoto had been condemned by everyone from the South Korean and Chinese governments to the New York State Assemblyman representing Flushing, Queens. (“When a powerful country like Japan puts out an anti-women’s rights message, it can take us back decades,” the assemblyman, Ron Kim, said. “My community is appalled, horrified, and hurt.&#8221 A State Department spokeswoman called the remarks “outrageous and offensive,” and characterized the trafficking of comfort women as “a grave human-rights violation of enormous proportions.”

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2013/05/the-mayor-and-the-comfort-women.html

 

[zon]

If they can prove he was involved in genocide/mass murder then he should definitely stand trial. We need to remember these things. For the sake of the victims at the very least.

The majority of the world will never forget what the Nazi did.

Actually, they will. How much does the average person know about the Mongols and their practice of murdering entire towns/villages? How many can name one place where this happened? What about Rwanda? Cambodia?

I don't want people to forget these things nor am I saying it's not worth trying to remember these horrible events, but they are largely forgotten anyway. It's inevitable; these acts are always forgotten sooner or later.

 

[ComputerMKII]

If they can prove he was involved in genocide/mass murder then he should definitely stand trial. We need to remember these things. For the sake of the victims at the very least.

Something's wrong with your logic.. He is already suspected of genocide so he should stand trial anyway. It's the trial's purpose to determine whether he's guilty or not.

 

[Sega Playstation]

You guys make it seem like he was the Red Fucking Skull. He was probably just following orders.

.

 

[zon]

Something's wrong with your logic.. He is already suspected of genocide so he should stand trial anyway. It's the trial's purpose to determine whether he's guilty or not.

???

If there is no evidence a man commited a crime, how can he stand trial?

 

[Parakeetman]

That's not justice. That's revenge. Our system is not built for petty vengeance.

Thats right, our system is built to waste tax payers dollars instead...

 

[ElectricBlue187]

???

If there is no evidence a man commited a crime, how can he stand trial?

what about NAZIS

 

[Exterminieren]

FFS he's 94 years old, leave the guy alone, im sure he regret what he did and beside it was during a war.

Hey, guys, breaking news! The Holocaust was fine because it was in war time!

Get stuffed.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

Setting a sentence and shaming is mighty fine, everything else at this point is just waste of money.

Also lolz at the guy wearing a Wolfenstein logo avatar in this topic

 

[Princess Carl]

This thread hurts my brain. Excrutiatingly so.

 

[News Bot]

He was probably just following orders.

Hey, the entire defense of the Nuremberg Trials.

 

[zoukka]

Many people in this thread would make for fine nazis if the circumstances allowed.

 

[zon]

Many people in this thread would make for fine nazis if the circumstances allowed.

Most people in general, around 60%, would make for fine Nazis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

 

[r3n4ud]

Same type of affair in a town oh so close to where I live. When questioned, the guy wanted nothing more than to only talk about his beekeeping

CBC News

 

[RedShift]

It'd be interesting to know since when the statute of limitation exists and why it was implemented. Anyway, from a natural law/axiomatic point of view, nothing seems to justify it.

I think the point is that once it gets to a certain point after the crime it becomes hard to build either an offence or defence at trial. If someone accuses you of a crime you supposedly committed 30 years ago even if you were sat in a room with 50 people and a bunch of security cameras at the time of the crime it's no use, the cameras have been lost and the people don't remember, or they're dead.

Once that amount of time passes it is almost always impossible to determine someone's guilt. This case might be a bit different but in general I think it's a good idea.

 

[Valnen]

Nobody would accept judging a three thousand years-old crime.

I absolutely would if the criminal was somehow still alive. Some crimes should not be forgiven with time.

 

[ComputerMKII]

I think the point is that once it gets to a certain point after the crime it becomes hard to build either an offence or defence at trial.

In that case, just give the accused the benefit of the doubt and declare him not guilty, just as in any other trial.

 

[mclem]

fuck that. he was never held accountable for his actions.

He's had sixty years he - arguably - didn't deserve. He can't be. Not without turning back time. He has - pretty much - got away with it. Justice cannot be served. Which makes me annoyed, but also pragmatic.

 

[Moral Panic]

Yes it is. You can pretend like it isn't, but it is.

At the start I was 100% "It's not too late" but then I read this and my heart dropped because I knew it to be true.

The guy is 94. He already won and unless we are going to torture him nothing we can do can be anything close to justice.

 

[Sayter]

???

If there is no evidence a man commited a crime, how can he stand trial?

I went back and looked up the 14th Waffen SS Ukraine. Even though there were supposedly eye witness accounts, there was never a true link to that unit commiting any war crimes. Most of the atrocities committed in eastern russian were done before the unit was formed. They might be able to convict him of being a part of a criminal organization since the Waffen SS was categorized as such at the Nurmberg trials. But, as far as linking him to a specific war crime... Not sure about that. The US can still deport him because he lied on his immigration papers.

 

[Particle Physicist]

NO ONE is defending what he did, Jesus fucking CHRIST.

People in this thread are literally using the 'just following orders' defense. Unironically.

I cant believe what i am reading. I hope all you guys saying this bullshit are 14. You have to be.

It's mind blowing to me. Christ. :/

 

[The Horror the horror]

Sending him to prison or jail would be doing him a favor. The dude might find himself revered and worshipped in some prison circles, which is exactly the sort of attention a 94-year-old man would enjoy.

Send his ass to a barebones old folks home. The sort of place where elderly convicts are sent. No TV, no games, just basic necessities.

 

[Llyranor]

They might be able to convict him of being a part of a criminal organization since the Waffen SS was categorized as such at the Nurmberg trials.

Plenty of SS officers weren't convicted of any crimes after the war.

 

[Zoctan]

This man should be punished for his crimes. The punishment shouldn't be cruel and unusual, as that would go against everything that justice in the first world stands for.

Unfortunately, with his age, he probably won't survive the court process.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Wow, can't believe he eluded capture for over 60 years, he managed to live a full life. I wonder what they can do to him, though. Just how are people in his age punished for crimes/taken to court?

 

[kswiston]

At this point, his children and grandchildren (assuming he has them) will be punished more that he will. At 94, he will probably be dead before the trial is concluded. At 94 he also probably doesn't care all that much about what will happen to him.

 

[DyTonic]

I want to hear this guys story, how he got away with it so long..

 

[N-Bomb]

Not at all. He should be punished. But keeping it real, is it really?

The goal of justice should be rehabilitation (if you're Norway) or just being removed as a threat to society.

Neither of which applies to him, due to his age.

Yeah, I think someone already mentioned but - in light of this, is it really justice, or at this point is it just revenge?

Some may say it's the same thing, but is it really?

 

[Stinkles]

Yeah, I think someone already mentioned but - in light of this, is it really justice, or at this point is it just revenge?

Some may say it's the same thing, but is it really?

Justice exists not for individual punishment, but to support a rule of law that informs our entire culture. It creates a message that our society will not stand for certain crimes. The MESSAGE here is actually far more important than the individual case.

It says that we, as a society will not forget the evil of our past and we will never let time erase responsibility or vigilance.

Europe, indeed the world, came very close to folding under a truly, almost melodramatically evil influence that would have changed the world forever.

"Never Forget" is a mantra that was created and repeated because that generation feared EXACTLY what we're seeing in this thread.

It's truly disturbing. Frightening even.

I apologize for my tone yesterday, but Bombadil and others scare the shit out of me.

 

[Kajigger]

He managed to evade capture for so long? At 94 years old he won. There's no point in doing anything at this point. He'll probably die before anything is done anyway.

 

[Stinkles]

He managed to evade capture for so long? At 94 years old he won. There's no point in doing anything at this point. He'll probably die before anything is done anyway.

COME ON.

 

[Bombadil]

Justice exists not for individual punishment, but to support a rule of law that informs our entire culture. It creates a message that our society will not stand for certain crimes. The MESSAGE here is actually far more important than the individual case.

It says that we, as a society will not forget the evil of our past and we will never let time erase responsibility or vigilance.

Europe, indeed the world, came very close to folding under a truly, almost melodramatically evil influence that would have changed the world forever.

"Never Forget" is a mantra that was created and repeated because that generation feared EXACTLY what we're seeing in this thread.

It's truly disturbing. Frightening even.

I apologize for my tone yesterday, but Bombadil and others scare the shit out of me.

Boo

 

[BossLackey]

I think he's probably changed in 60 years. Maybe not, but I wouldn't know what to do with the guy.

 

[DUFFMCWALIN]

Justice can never forget. Humanity can never forget. If he's guilty, then put him in old persons home where they keep the elderly who are under arrest.

 

[The BS Police]

He was probably just following orders.

That's the problem though, he like millions of other Nazi supporters chose to follow those orders. He could have easily chose to instead lead his own troops against his supperiors, but he choose to participate in mass genocide instead... Unforgivable!

 

[SummitAve]

You guys make it seem like he was the Red Fucking Skull. He was probably just following orders.

He wrote in his own memoirs that we was a commander of a Nazi SS unit, not just some grunt. It doesn't really though because the precedence for "I was just following orders" has historically not held up as a legitimate defense.

He lied about his military service when coming to this country, and then wrote about it in his memoirs years later. That alone, before the crimes against humanity, is enough for deportation. A good enough lawyer will probably be able to delay this long enough until he dies.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

If found guilty they should execute him. We can call it euthanasia to make GAF's nazi defense force feel better.

 

[GaimeGuy]

That's the problem though, he like millions of other Nazi supporters chose to follow those orders. He could have easily chose to instead lead his own troops against his supperiors, but he choose to participate in mass genocide instead... Unforgivable!

And Paul Warfield Tibbets Jr received the Distinguished Service Cross for piloting the enola gay and dropping the atomic bomb on Hiroshima, killing 90,000–166,000 as a direct result of his mission.

The Distinguished Service Cross is the second highest military award someone in the army (or, at the time tibbets served, the air force) could receive, second only to the Medal of Honor).




Tibbets eventually died with the rank of Brigadier General. Charles W. Sweeney, the pilot of Bocks Car, ended up a Major General

These two individuals were also "just following orders," killed 150,000–246,000 people,
and were declared national heroes.

Our side won, though, so our war criminals are remembered as heroes.

 

[Oozinator]

I wonder how it feels to live all these years while hiding such terrible secrets.

 

[Typhoon_Ex]

Far worse people are left unpnished because the allies won the war. I say he is too old to face charges for something that happened 60 years ago.
An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is the reason our world is so fucked up.