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Would you be happy if "Next-Gen" games looked like this ?

jett

D-Member
Own them yes.

Just to be clear Im just referring to the image quality and animation in the Zelda clip, in those regards its FMV quality.
ibxaAGy5TuM0Ly.gif

Just look at the bats in this image. Now compare that to any of the bat enemies we've seen in games this gen.

why are nintendo fans always the most insane?

Nintendo released a direct feed image of the demo. Showed it ran at 720p with no AA.
 

Jinko

Member
The lighting in the Zelda Wii U tech demo is clearly above anything that has been done on consoles before. And like I said earlier, don't judge it by looking at the shitty gifs. At least look at the off-screen videos that has been posted. Even if it's off-screen, you can clearly tell that the lighting is great.

I expect much improved lighting to be the big thing during the next gen. Proper global illumination with full dynamic lighting will add a lot to the overall graphics.

Lighting was a big thing this gen also, at least at the start of it, HDR etc.

I woudln't mind seeing graphics take a bit of a back seat and see some really amazing physics in game.
 

jett

D-Member
Could someone explain to me what's so amazing about the lighting? Cause I don't see anything amazing there at all.

It's one light source moving around a single character. UNBELIEVABLE.

I think it has more to do with people being impressed after being shackled to a wii for five years.
 

Loofy

Member
Bats? Seriously?

Look at the whole gameplay section with Poseidon, or with Atlas, overall IQ is much better and the animation is on par at least.

Loads of Uncharted 3 shows animation on par with that tech demo and IQ well beyond it also.

You can't select an individual visual element to compare the IQ of two games.
Animation isnt on par. Journey is the only thing this gen with comparable animation to the Zelda tech demo.
 
It's one light source moving around a single character. UNBELIEVABLE.

I think it has more to do with people being impressed after being shackled to a wii for five years.

I have all 3 systems and I'm still impressed. I didn't know you had to be a Wii only owner to find this impressive. I think it's more the shock and awe of seeing a Zelda game that could potentially look as good as or better than Uncharted. HD Mario and Zelda is all I want out of next generation visually. Anything else Sony and MS provide me is a bonus.
 

jett

D-Member
Animation isnt on par. Journey is the only thing this gen with comparable animation to the Zelda tech demo.

I don't think you realize that this demo is pretty much a cut-scene, and barely anything happens to boot.

Or it's because console games have shitty lighting.

Also, I'll never understand the praise Uncharted's animations get. Though, it's mostly the horrendous transitions that ruins it.

Right. Wait what. Uncharted 2 has the most seamless in-game animations.

This thread is going full-retard.
 
The Killzone CG trailer has far better animations and looks better than the actual game. So, those trailers are never matched anyway.

Speaking of which, Warcraft III CGI looks way better and is animated with much more skill than that Final Fantasy garbage that is being posted, and that was made in 2001.

I think the FF fanboys here confusing angst for graphics

This is fucking stupid. Open your eyes, because it sounds like you're the fanboy. Comparing 2001 CGI to 2009 ~ 2011 CGI ... What trash.

What have you chaps to say about Crysis excellence [PC, maximal settings] for the consoles, in the forthcoming generation?

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2593/crysis24hu0.png[IMG]

[IMG]http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/750/crysis28te5.png[IMG][/QUOTE]

That looks great, sure. But it still doesn't stack against the FMV/CGI screens already posted.

[quote="Vulcano's assistant, post: 34556230"]Talking about FMV, I think those FF versus XIII trailers show that Square is still capable of measuring up to BLizzard or Ubisoft when it comes to realistic lighting in CGI.[/QUOTE]

Easily. In fact there are multiple other Japanese companies that come to mind, including FROM Software, Tri-Ace, Bandai, etc ..

[quote="EatChildren, post: 34558098"]IQ is weird. What gets people (or me) most, I feel, is density and complexity of objects on screen. As in, huge scale, draw distances, and a whole lot of shit going on and it all looking good.

When you start cutting stuff out of the image for a closer, personal shot, a lot of impact in graphical leaps is lost. Take those FF XIII CGI clips. I [i]know[/i] they're technically superior, and I can [i]see[/i] they're technically superior, but my jaw does not drop at a close-up of Lightning, because a similar level of IQ on a screen can and has been achieved on modern games.

Honestly, there's some stuff in The Witcher 2 that envokes similar feelings to that Triace demo. Objects aren't as smooth, the lighting and shadows are rougher, and textures aren't quite as detailed, but we're [i]getting there[/i]. We're not comparing a N64 game anymore. We can achieve incredible graphical fidelity that, in my opinion, borderlines on high end CG, all when the cards are played right (mostly the art, hardware and angle of the shot).

Pull the camera back for those wide views and then we start seeing the big weaknesses of all graphical processors, and the huge difference between a high end technically impressive modern game and pre-render CG. Same goes with density of intricate details, like shots of forests. Anything scene with a lot of flora is a good benchmark for how powerful hardware can be, and how realistic we can make our images.

Then there's animation, but that's a bit of a grey area, because though it significantly improves the presentation of a game, you cant really brute force it like post processing or graphical effects. Animators must meticulously [i]animate[/i] everything themselves, and that comes down to time, money, and skill. Unless we dig into procedural, physics based animation, but that only covers a small portion of what games require.[/QUOTE]

I can agree to a point, but you do realize that that Tri-Ace tech demo was actually rendered and shown off on the PS360 ... Right ? So to me at least, it's not that impressive that PC games are "just" getting there ...

[quote="jett, post: 34558759"]Those CG pics are really below Square's usual standards.[/QUOTE]

Oh ? Then do point out some of their higher standards. I personally love Square's CG, so I'm always looking for it, especially in HD.

[quote="Loofy, post: 34558823"]Own them yes.

Just to be clear Im just referring to the image quality and animation in the Zelda clip, in those regards its [B]FMV quality.[/B]
[img]http://i.minus.com/ibxaAGy5TuM0Ly.gif
Just look at the bats in this image. Now compare that to any of the bat enemies we've seen in games this gen.

Uhm ... :lol
 
I don't think you realize that this demo is pretty much a cut-scene, and barely anything happens to boot.



Right. Wait what. Uncharted 2 has the most seamless in-game animations.

This thread is going full-retard.

Seamless? Ok... I guess you don't think that Drake slides around the ground either? And you don't notice that Drake runs out in mid air before jumping either, right?

I do want to point out that Loofy is crazy. FMV quality... No, it's not.
 

Xun

Member
While people are posting demos...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSXyztq_0uM

The Samaritan by Epic.

I don't see this being achieved next-gen, but something in the ballpark.
I constantly say it, but am I the only underwhelmed by this?

I know it has a lot of new advancements, but it just looks like UE3 with bokeh added.

UE4 will be out in 2014 and I hope the 3 systems will be capable of running it well.

Uhm ... :lol
The animation is "FMV quality", but not the IQ.

Also there are better shots of it than those gifs posted.

Considering it was made in 2 weeks or something like that, it's not a bad start.
 

jett

D-Member
Seamless? Ok... I guess you don't think that Drake slides around the ground either?

Not in Uncharted 2.

And you don't notice that Drake runs out in mid air before jumping either, right?

That's done for gameplay purposes, has nothing to do with animation quality. You don't even know what you're talking about.
 
Not in Uncharted 2.



That's done for gameplay purposes, has nothing to do with animation quality. You don't even know what you're talking about.

It still looks ridiculous, and they could have made it look a lot better without changing the gameplay.

And yeah, he definitely slides around in all 3 games.
 

jett

D-Member
AngelSoldier said:
Oh ? Then do point out some of their higher standards. I personally love Square's CG, so I'm always looking for it, especially in HD.

Anything else, really. I always thought the CG in that FF13-2 teaser was of really low quality. That background looks like crap.

It still looks ridiculous.

And it still has nothing to do with what has been discussed.
 
And it still has nothing to do with what has been discussed.

Of course it does. It's an animation that looks ridiculous. If they want to make it impossible to miss a jump, just let Drake auto jump instead of running in mid air.

Besides, the animations in that game aren't great no matter what.
 
I'd much rather just have more fun games over technical superiority. In the end if I enjoyed it then it was a successful experience for me. Sure, better graphics and audio are nice but, I'd rather a good game than just a good looking one.
 

jett

D-Member
Of course it does. It's an animation that looks ridiculous. If they want to make it impossible to miss a jump, just let Drake auto jump instead of running in mid air.

Dat stubbornness. Whatever you may think about ND's gameplay choices, it has nothing to do with animation transitions. Drake goes from a running animation to a jumping one smoothly.

Besides, the animations in that game aren't great no matter what.

uh huh.
 
Dat stubbornness. Whatever you may think about ND's gameplay choices, it has nothing to do with animation transitions. Drake goes from a running animation to a jumping one smoothly.



uh huh.

Well, I was talking about animations in general, not just the transitions. Anyway, you clearly see a completely different game than the one I see, so this is quite pointless.
 

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
This is fucking stupid. Open your eyes, because it sounds like you're the fanboy. Comparing 2001 CGI to 2009 ~ 2011 CGI ... What trash.

Maybe you should rewatch WC3 CGI(and WoW while you're at it since its only 2 years older), it still hold up pretty well to this day CGI. They aren't called the CGI gods for nothing.
 

salpa

Banned
IMO, nothing I have played on the PS360 comes close to that Zelda demo. Also, I'd very much like to see this direct feed footage Nintendo supposedly released. I tried Google, but it failed me. It is highly inaccurate and also probably a waste of time to judge the demo based on off-screen footage. That Digital Foundry piece on it is also full of it. They claimed they counted pixels or used some other kind of mechanism to do it, but the footage they used was off-screen, 720p footage taken from IGN. They claimed in another article that doing something like that would not work (I wish I had some links on-hand).

I've just started game programming (using Allegro to start), so correct me if I'm wrong, but the pixel is the smallest unit of measurement for an image. If you were looking at a 1080p screen being fed by a 720p camera, you would be seeing 2.25 pixels of the screen per 1 pixel of the feed. It seems to me, that it would be impossible to count. Sometimes 720p vs 1080p is night and day, however, it is impossible to judge accurate IQ thanks to it being off screen footage. The only thing even remotely close to direct-feed that I've seen is one 1080p image that was released. The image has noticeable jaggies, which could either be the result of no AA or the result of limited AA (or none) and some up-scaling.

I'd be very interested in a feature by feature comparison between the Zelda Wii U tech demo, UC3, and Gears of War 3, comparing textures, lighting, resolution, AA/AF, shading and polygon count. Nintendo's tech demos never compare to the finished product, so if that Wii U tech demo is already comparable, I'd have high hopes for what might actually come of it.
 

StuBurns

Banned
Why wouldn't it be able to be achieved? It's still UE3.0/DX11. They said they would have no problems getting it to run on a single video card. Their tech is good, but Epic has phenomenal artists as well.
Well I can't be certain, but at the time I seem to remember the more switched on Gaffers about that sort of thing were saying the machine Epic were running it on is hugely beyond what is viable for the next consoles.
 
This thread is going full-retard.

you never go full retard!

I think it's still silly to evaluate and judge cutscene graphics. The quality of animations and objects is just a money question, developers could let Industrial Light & Magic render all that stuff for all i care.
 
IMO, nothing I have played on the PS360 comes close to that Zelda demo. Also, I'd very much like to see this direct feed footage Nintendo supposedly released. I tried Google, but it failed me. It is highly inaccurate and also probably a waste of time to judge the demo based on off-screen footage. That Digital Foundry piece on it is also full of it. They claimed they counted pixels or used some other kind of mechanism to do it, but the footage they used was off-screen, 720p footage taken from IGN. They claimed in another article that doing something like that would not work (I wish I had some links on-hand).

That's fair if you've only played Disgaea 3.
 
Maybe you should rewatch WC3 CGI(and WoW while you're at it since its only 2 years older), it still hold up pretty well to this day CGI. They aren't called the CGI gods for nothing.

Right. I'm not saying that Blizzard's not good. They're great. But it's pretty clear to me, That Square is still King baby.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWJxXtjOjIo

There's also FROM Software with their crazy E3 AC5 trailer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4aimv4YjT0

You cannot deny this quality.
 

salpa

Banned
That's fair if you've only played Disgaea 3.

Why not provide some screen comparisons instead of making blanket claims?

I admit there are a lot of PS360 games I have not played, but a lot of the big visual monsters (Gears, UC, FF13, whatever), I have played. I have an open mind. Provide some images proving your point, and I'll listen.
 
Why not provide some screen comparisons instead of making blanket claims?

I admit there are a lot of PS360 games I have not played, but a lot of the big visual monsters (Gears, UC, FF13, whatever), I have played. I have an open mind. Provide some images proving your point, and I'll listen.

If you've played UC3 and Gears 3, and still think that they don't even come close to it (though I think they easily surpass it), the only conclusion I can come to is that you have some really strange standards.
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
Well I can't be certain, but at the time I seem to remember the more switched on Gaffers about that sort of thing were saying the machine Epic were running it on is hugely beyond what is viable for the next consoles.
I think the hardware it was running on was the wrong metric to use. Why wouldn't they run it on the best hardware available? That allows them to skip heavy optimization and crank up the AA and resolution beyond that which is practical for even next gen consoles and still get good framerates. It's not like they have to pay for the cards.

IQ aside I don't see Epic having an issue porting something like Samaritan to next gen machines.
 

StuBurns

Banned
I think the hardware it was running on was the wrong metric to use. Why wouldn't they run it on the best hardware available? That allows them to skip heavy optimization and crank up the AA and resolution beyond that which is practical for even next gen consoles and still get good framerates. It's not like they have to pay for the cards.

IQ aside I don't see Epic having an issue porting something like Samaritan to next gen machines.

IQ aside is a pretty big aside.

I did say 'ball park'.
 
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