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Xbox Reveal Thread: Durango Unchained

K

Kintaco

Member
5MIKqM0.png


The dedicated servers are most likely for product registration and activation checks:
uDIZ4Yw.png


And probably not for multiplayer.
 
J

Juice

Member
infiniteheteroskdasticity said:
As someone that covers gaming for a financial institution this was a very interesting afternoon to be sure. Microsoft just made some pretty big bets and nobody on the business side I've spoken to seems to think they were the right ones. Some of the gains in Sony's shares this afternoon were a direct result of that. The most worried people on the planet right now need to be Sony's logistics/supply chain people.

I'm personally pretty underwhelmed by what was shown and more importantly by the 'vision' shown. The dream of a "singularity device" has been around for aeons and there's a reason nobody's been able to get there. We like our separate devices. We like our tablets for causal browsing, our pcs for working and our consoles for gaming because we don't have to compromise anywhere. They are not mutually exclusive. I had initially hoped the Yukon rumors were true and that MSFT would show two devices today. That way we'd have had a powerful console for gamers and a separate lighter 'apps' box that would do everything else and could be refreshed every other year to keep up with changing TV viewing habits. Instead we got what seems to be a poorly focused console that had to be seriously underpowered relative to its main gaming competition to bundle in a lot of functionality that is of unproven value, especially in the non US markets where all the growth is going to be. Core gamers will find the PS4 superior, the TV features you can get with a much cheaper Roku box or Apple TV that you can upgrade every year, Samsung smart TVs already come with the gesture based control schemes and tablets from Apple etc are better fits for casual gamers.

I actually started off working for MS back when the 360 was in development before I went to b school. Back then people like J Allard really knew what they were doing. In contrast, the xBox One sounds like it was designed by a very varied focus group. The one thing that really bugs me about the hardware design is the fact that it is underpowered because they had to sacrifice die space for embedded RAM and move engines. They had to do that because they wanted 8GB of memory which (they thought) would have to mean DDR3. They wanted 8GB of RAM because they had to have that to support all the non gaming stuff they planned to do. Essentially the entire design appears to have been driven, and eventually compromised on the altar of having your xBox put a green skin on the TV guide. In contrast, Sony admitted they were wrong with the PS3, hired Mark Cerny (who is a true legend in the industry if you are old enough) and designed the PS4. Is all the OS/TV stuff shown today cool? Absolutely. Is it worth sacrificing performance over in something that still is a gaming console? Absolutely not.

Finally shame on both MS (with EA and COD) and Sony (with Ubisoft) for falling for the exclusive content/DLC scam the publishers run. You're both wasting your shareholders money on stuff that has been proven to not sell significantly more hardware. If it isn't a significantly timed/fully exclusive AAA title, it is pointless.
Click to expand...

This is a treasure of a post. This thread doesn't deserve you. Thanks for writing it.
 
E

exmachina64

Banned
infiniteheteroskdasticity said:
Instead we got what seems to be a poorly focused console that had to be seriously underpowered relative to its main gaming competition to bundle in a lot of functionality that is of unproven value, especially in the non US markets where all the growth is going to be.
Click to expand...

That's all moot since so much of its media functionality is U.S. exclusive, right?

Finally shame on both MS (with EA and COD) and Sony (with Ubisoft) for falling for the exclusive content/DLC scam the publishers run. You're both wasting your shareholders money on stuff that has been proven to not sell significantly more hardware. If it isn't a significantly timed/fully exclusive AAA title, it is pointless.
Click to expand...

.
 
B

Brashnir

Member
EvB said:
Here is a rough size comparison based upon using the disc drives as a guide.

The 360 doesn't look right though :/

compare.gif
Click to expand...

I think your scale may be a bit off due to the beveled edges on the sides of the X1's slot drive. Try one comparing the actual opening's width to the PS3's drive width.
 
R

Raide

Member
undrtakr900 said:
Excuse my ignorance to the stock market, but how does(or what causes) the stock price to fluctuate so quickly?
Click to expand...

Part of that (from various sources) suggests it could be down more to the fact Sony announcement sometime to do with the entertainment side of the company splitting. E3 will be way more telling but a few points here or there is not going to change anything in the long run.
 
I

infiniteheteroskdasticity

Member
undrtakr900 said:
Excuse my ignorance to the stock market, but how does(or what causes) the stock price to fluctuate so quickly?
Click to expand...

News. There was a story out of Japan that Sony might not be averse to the idea of spinning off their movie studios and music label into a separate business but the stock had rallied on that beforehand. The xBox reveal being perceived as non threatening helped push it up another 2-3%. Like most Japanese stocks this year, Sony is up massively (+107% ytd) on the weaker yen and perceived economic strength at home. MSFT didn't move at all to the xBox reveal. For all the interest in the gaming space, xBox is a tiny fraction of what MSFT does. The market definitely did not take the XBox One as some sort of game changing device.
 
R

RoKKeR

Member
infiniteheteroskdasticity said:
As someone that covers gaming for a financial institution this was a very interesting afternoon to be sure. Microsoft just made some pretty big bets and nobody on the business side I've spoken to seems to think they were the right ones. Some of the gains in Sony's shares this afternoon were a direct result of that. The most worried people on the planet right now need to be Sony's logistics/supply chain people.

I'm personally pretty underwhelmed by what was shown and more importantly by the 'vision' shown. The dream of a "singularity device" has been around for aeons and there's a reason nobody's been able to get there. We like our separate devices. We like our tablets for causal browsing, our pcs for working and our consoles for gaming because we don't have to compromise anywhere. They are not mutually exclusive. I had initially hoped the Yukon rumors were true and that MSFT would show two devices today. That way we'd have had a powerful console for gamers and a separate lighter 'apps' box that would do everything else and could be refreshed every other year to keep up with changing TV viewing habits. Instead we got what seems to be a poorly focused console that had to be seriously underpowered relative to its main gaming competition to bundle in a lot of functionality that is of unproven value, especially in the non US markets where all the growth is going to be. Core gamers will find the PS4 superior, the TV features you can get with a much cheaper Roku box or Apple TV that you can upgrade every year, Samsung smart TVs already come with the gesture based control schemes and tablets from Apple etc are better fits for casual gamers.

I actually started off working for MS back when the 360 was in development before I went to b school. Back then people like J Allard really knew what they were doing. In contrast, the xBox One sounds like it was designed by a very varied focus group. The one thing that really bugs me about the hardware design is the fact that it is underpowered because they had to sacrifice die space for embedded RAM and move engines. They had to do that because they wanted 8GB of memory which (they thought) would have to mean DDR3. They wanted 8GB of RAM because they had to have that to support all the non gaming stuff they planned to do. Essentially the entire design appears to have been driven, and eventually compromised on the altar of having your xBox put a green skin on the TV guide. In contrast, Sony admitted they were wrong with the PS3, hired Mark Cerny (who is a true legend in the industry if you are old enough) and designed the PS4. Is all the OS/TV stuff shown today cool? Absolutely. Is it worth sacrificing performance over in something that still is a gaming console? Absolutely not.

Finally shame on both MS (with EA and COD) and Sony (with Ubisoft) for falling for the exclusive content/DLC scam the publishers run. You're both wasting your shareholders money on stuff that has been proven to not sell significantly more hardware. If it isn't a significantly timed/fully exclusive AAA title, it is pointless.
Click to expand...

Amazingly well said. Couldn't agree more.
 
L

LCfiner

Member
infiniteheteroskdasticity said:
excellent, long post
Click to expand...

just wanted to chime in and say that this was a very good post. Glad you took the time to write it. It goes over a lot of the issues I have with the design. And i find it interesting that some investing markets aren;t sold on the TV integration features, too. Maybe all those years of failed promises and failures for that feature has made people more wary about the promises.

From my POV, it seems clear that MS has made the wrong compromises with two key products. Windows 8 and the Xbox. they compromised Win8 to try to work on different hardware at the same time and they're now compromising the xbox hardware to perform a feature that might not sell it in large numbers.

I feel like they're making bad calls and the wrong decisions on some really important products all at once. scary.
 
O

Ol No Bones

Banned
Ok a few good things. The box looks good IMO, the controller looks great and probably feels great, it PROBABLY does have games, and it is still a capable machine. The cloud features for gaming might be compelling and the UI is going to be outstanding. That being said, the reveal was so so so bad. I don't know if Microsoft could have had a reveal less appealing to gamers. I will probably get depending on whether it really does have compelling content I can't get elsewhere. It's gonna come down to the games. The reveal hinted that their might be games but they did not show the goods.
 
undrtakr900

undrtakr900

Member
Clockwork5 said:
MS went down less than a percent.
Click to expand...
Yeah I know, but curious "what" exactly causes it to drop/rise in the first place? Is it based on how people buy/sell stock, I'm completely ignorant on this topic.
infiniteheteroskdasticity said:
News. There was a story out of Japan that Sony might not be averse to the idea of spinning off their movie studios and music label into a separate business but the stock had rallied on that beforehand. The xBox reveal being perceived as non threatening helped push it up another 2-3%. Like most Japanese stocks this year, Sony is up massively (+107% ytd) on the weaker yen and perceived economic strength at home. MSFT didn't move at all to the xBox reveal. For all the interest in the gaming space, xBox is a tiny fraction of what MSFT does. The market definitely did not take the XBox One as some sort of game changing device.
Click to expand...
Oh okay, that makes sense. If someone was excited about the split and buys stock that's what makes the price rise?
 
I

infiniteheteroskdasticity

Member
LCfiner said:
just wanted to chime in and say that this was a very good post. Glad you took the time to write it. It goes over a lot of the issues I have with the design. And i find it interesting that some investing markets aren;t sold on the TV integration features, too. Maybe all those years of failed promises and failures for that feature has made people more wary about the promises.

From my POV, it seems clear that MS has made the wrong compromises with two key products. Windows 8 and the Xbox. they compromised Win8 to try to work on different hardware at the same time and they're now compromising the xbox hardware to perform a feature that might not sell it in large numbers.

I feel like they're making bad calls and the wrong decisions on some really important products all at once. scary.
Click to expand...

Thanks. The reason I cover gaming for a hedge fund is because I like it (I also get to expense the occasional hardware purchase and the odd game which isn't a terrible perk). A lot of the people that cover this on the financial side do so because they're gamers as well. Today's presentation didn't come off to well. There seems to be a general theme of issues that everybody on the financial side seems to have with MSFT under Ballmer. They lack focus. Windows 8 can't decide if its Windows or iOS, Surface cant decide if its an iPad or a netbook and now it looks the they brought that lack of focus to the one success they can point to in the last few years.
 
G

GreatMightySymp

Member
I don't buy used (usually wait for Amazon to bomba price stuff), but I can understand why people are pissed by the news.

Did MS say anything about the HDD in terms of it being proprietary or not like the 360?
 
undrtakr900

undrtakr900

Member
Arc said:
Can you imagine how epic this Friday's 1UP Yours is going to be? Man I can't wait to hear Shane go off on Luke over this disaster.

:(


If only.
Click to expand...
Oh shit, that would've been epic lols!
Shane gets revenge from the Sony e3 2006 special:
John: "Where's Shane"
Luke: "Last I saw he was shivering in the corner"

I recently started listening to 1up Yours and by God the chemistry is still unmatched to this day. Also great to hear all their wrong/right predictions.
 
W

Winterfang

Banned
Persona86 said:
I know looks aren't everything, but it's pretty much guaranteed the PS4 hardware will look better now. :)
Click to expand...

Don't be so sure about that. I'm disappointed by all the DDR stuff, very excited by the console itself. Both the controller and Kinect seems to be much needed improvements.
 
SenjutsuSage

SenjutsuSage

Banned
I always make sure to never overreact about things until I have a more clear picture, and based on everything I've seen today, and everything I've read, I like where the new Xbox is going.

The event could have used more games, but considering it was one hour, I understand. That said, the Kinect integration and the tv and console features shown were extremely impressive. People can think whatever they want about what was shown, but I was impressed.

The EA demos were blah, nothing special. Hell, they probably weren't even real gameplay, but I understand why Microsoft showed that stuff. I also understand why they showed COD, even though I have very little interest in that game unless it can manage to sell me on it. Extremely excited about Remedy's new game, and it's good that we have a new forza game at launch. I eagerly await more information, I'm dying to see what they, Sony and everybody else shows at E3, and look forward to seeing all the improvements to xbox live. I hope not too many of those new exclusive IP are casual games, and I hope for some amazing announcements at E3.

People acting as if the Microsoft just sent their system to die today or something are really reaching. People are hearing a single thing and then jumping to the worst possible conclusions. Who cares if you connect to the internet once every 24 hours. Be glad it isn't once every 5 or 15 minutes like rumored. Some controls on the used game market to try and prevent developers from being pushed out of the resale of their game with a small fee of some kind to activate previously owned and activated xbox one title? What's the worst fee they could charge for something like that? $5? Maybe even $10, although I doubt it going that high. You're still getting a game much cheaper than at retail.

I don't have a problem with some of that money going back to developers and publishers. Retail still gets and makes their money, gamers still getting games for cheap, but developers and publishers can get something out of that, too. I have zero issue with this, if it comes to that. Beyond that, I don't buy used games. I get all my games new.
 
Z

ZackieChan

Member
Squall ASF said:
Did you not notice the portions of my post where I mentioned E3? Nice try.
Click to expand...

Yes, you mentioned the fact that E3 is just a few weeks away. It doesn't excuse the fact that the thing that will make people decide to purchase this over much cheaper Roku-like boxes is games. And that these games were hardly mentioned at the conference. And you called people who expected a games console reveal to focus on games "stupid."

Nice try.
 
P

Persona86

Banned
Winterfang said:
Don't be so sure about that. I'm disappointed by all the DDR stuff, very excited by the console itself. Both the controller and Kinect seems to be much needed improvements.
Click to expand...

I'm 90% sure the PS4 will look better than this:

20130514-XBOX-ONE-011-660x440.jpg


I'm just judging looks. it's what's inside that counts. ;)

E3 is where Judgment day will be.
 
T

Tenacious-V

Thinks his PR is better than yours.
Persona86 said:
I know looks aren't everything, but it's pretty much guaranteed the PS4 hardware will look better now. :)
Click to expand...

Don't be so sure. You have seen the flimsy POS redesign that is the PS3 Super Slim right? (That's high quality end of 2012 tech right there.....)

cimg0558.jpg
 
Sanctuary

Sanctuary

Member
Each time I see the design, I can't help but think of the original Xbox (not 360) combined with an original PS3. I'm not seeing a new design. I'm more function over form anyway, but the new look is pretty underwhelming.
 
P

Persona86

Banned
Tenacious-V said:
Don't be so sure. You have seen the flimsy POS redesign that is the PS3 Super Slim right? (That's high quality end of 2012 tech right there.....)

cimg0558.jpg
Click to expand...

That's an excellent example of them using cheap materials to try and make a profit.

I'm pretty sure PS4 won't like like that POS haha, they are gonna get the best of the best designers to make a good first impression IMO.

P.S I'm also a fan of Meisa Kuroki. ;)
 
M

mclem

Member
SmokyDave said:
Just watch random TV for an hour, you'll get the same experience.
Click to expand...

Also, whenever you change the channel, make sure you announce it to the world.

My Dad's just recovering from a batch of a fluey virus; he had no voice for a couple of days. I could just see someone in his situation trying to make the system understand when he croaks out "Please Xbox, anything but The View"
 
T

Tenacious-V

Thinks his PR is better than yours.
Persona86 said:
That's an excellent example of them using cheap materials to try and make a profit.

I'm pretty sure PS4 won't like like that POS haha, they are gonna get the best of the best designers to make a good first impression IMO.

P.S I'm also a fan of Meisa Kuroki. ;)
Click to expand...

My Man!!

Hope you're right, although I have no problems with the X1 design. I want Sony to come out with something stellar again, they've been (s)lacking lately.
 
B

BeauRoger

Unconfirmed Member
How does all the TV stuff work if you already have a decoder handling your channels? changing the channel with voice command cant possibly work in that situation since the xbox one cant control those external devices, even if you connect your device to the console.

Will all of these channel specific features require some form xbox cable subscription?
because unless im missing something, the only way for the box to actually recognize which channel is on and deliver all those specific features, is if all of that is coming from the console itself.
 
Sanctuary

Sanctuary

Member
I am just now actually finishing the reveal video. Man, I was already planning on buying a PS4, but it's going to take a hell of a lot of super-awesome-must-have exclusives before I even consider this jack-of-all, master-of-nothing system.

They spent so many resources on all of these extraneous things that I don't give a shit about in a gaming console at the expense of the most important factors. I can't honestly believe that people have become so increasingly lazy that they have a difficult time switching inputs or channels.
 
Sanctuary

Sanctuary

Member
BruceLeeRoy said:
Xbox One.

What a truly dumb as hell name.

"You getting the Xbox One?"
"Uhhh I already have the first Xbox thanks"
Click to expand...

That's exactly what it makes me think of as well. It's meant to be thought of as "One box to rule them all" (all of the random devices in your house) though, but it's still pretty bad.

edit: Why does it look like I am viewing the PS3 dashboard startup wave during the Xbox One reveal video?
 
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