AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
I don't know what you guys expected. The suits at WB are probably satisfied with the results. Both BvS and SS made bank despite subpar reviews. At the end of the day, it's all about money and Snyder is delivering it.
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Zack Synder war on comics continues, Jesse Eisenberg to return in justice League
- Thread starter Slayven
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DragonSworne
Banned
I don't remember that part at all. Must of been too subtly.
PIMPBYBLUD
Member
He was miscast. He should have been The Riddler.
cartographer
Member
At least Young Justice is coming back. After the DC movies and whatever the hell The Killing Joke film was, DC needs something good to cleanse the palate.
BvS underperformed though.
They couldn't have been that satisfied with it, otherwise there would have been no need for last minute changes on SS, course correcting on Justice League, or hell, a restructuring of their entire DC Films division.
What's wrong with The Killing Joke?
cartographer
Member
They managed to take a story that was already overly cruel to Barbara and turn it into almost complete character assassination.
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
Probably, it still made a shitload of money. CW also underperformed (Perlmutter had it pegged for 1.25B in the sony leaked emails).
Films have reshoots all the time, like Rogue One. I don't even know what the course correcting on JL or restructuring the DC Films division was, but, based on the trailer, it doesn't seem to be much different (in terms of theme, comedy, etc) than what we have seen so far.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
So Lex "knows" Superman is not benevolent and goes about proving it to others by framing him? As plans go, it just doesn't make much sense. Wouldn't he be better off 'catching him in the act', so to speak?
Didn't you know? It's Primer levels of intricate.
laser=/=fire
okay, fine
the guy who can use his eyes to concentrate heat in such a way that things he looks at can burn or melt
But why would he do it?
If he was was going to flip out why not in downtown Metropolis where he spends 90 percent of his time?
He is a good actor. I didn't like his performance as Luthor, but I'd put most of the blame on the directing and writing.
I have little to no confidence in the directing and writing improving for Justice League, but it's not like recasting Luthor would meaningfully change anything.
I have little to no confidence in the directing and writing improving for Justice League, but it's not like recasting Luthor would meaningfully change anything.
GravityInsanity
Member
I really don't understand Zack Snyder at all.
- Superman is Jesus in Man of Steel
- Superman is evil in BvS
- Batman is a killer in BvS
- "Batman can get raped in prison" - Zack Snyder
- Lex Luthor uses his own DNA to create Doomsday...
- It took 2 hours for Batman and Superman to actually fight each other.
- Lex Luthor again...UGH
- Martha
- Batman having a dream about the Flash? What?
- Superman is Jesus in Man of Steel
- Superman is evil in BvS
- Batman is a killer in BvS
- "Batman can get raped in prison" - Zack Snyder
- Lex Luthor uses his own DNA to create Doomsday...
- It took 2 hours for Batman and Superman to actually fight each other.
- Lex Luthor again...UGH
- Martha
- Batman having a dream about the Flash? What?
Pray for J. K. Simmons career after Justice League.
Well Superman was definitely there and he definitely messed at least one of those guys up and they weren't exactly nice guys either way. I'm not sure what would be unbelievable about it.
Especially if they know he's playing hide the sausage with Lois Lane.
We know that the SS reshoots involved adding more humor to that film, partly in reaction to BvS and partly in reaction to the Bohemian Rhapsody trailer. And the course correcting on JL happened before and during shooting, so yeah, of course what we've seen so far is going to match that.
And there was no DC Films division before BvS. Then all of a sudden, that movie comes out and WB suddenly upends their DC film team with a new structure, with Geoff Johns at the helm, who is now not only working on Justice League/Wonder Woman/Batman, but is also going in the press talking about how the films will have to better show hope and optimism in their heroes? And none of that has anything to do with BvS?
Dude, when my flowchart explains everything in order and people still continue to be more stubbornly obtuse than a Shawshank Prison warden there's not much you can do. I swear at times, the more I debate this movie the more I wonder if it might actually be too smart for some people. It seems Snyder has to do everything with the subtetly of a sledghammer to the face cos people will miss it. I got into an argument explaining how Lois deduced kryptonite harmed Clark and how it and deducing Doomsday was kryptonian was not a plothole.
I sure hope they include a flowchart with cinema tickets for Justice League.
Or, you know, write a plot that makes sense by simply watching the film.
Because there are witnesses in downtown Metropolis.
Lex wants people to believe that Superman is a dangerous egomaniac, who would meddle in a war zone and make everything more terrible for the downtrodden just to save his girlfriend.
That's the story he pays that lady to tell at the congress hearing. One where Superman is an unconsiderate menace who could destroy us on a whim.
Again, that's Lex's whole idea, he does not believe that Superman can be all-powerful and all-good, and, since SUPERMAN ACTUALLY IS ALL-POWERFUL AND ALL-GOOD (I need to stress this because of how important it is not just to the movie and to Snyder's vision of Superman, but also to life in general), he decides to frame him.
Bah, the story is just a mess
Or you could pay attention, there is limited conjecture in anything I have said.
InsaneTiger
Member
You're that guy at the comic book store that takes these things way too seriously. HISHE does a good job of poking holes in all these movies.
Strangelove77
Member
I actually found him to be the most entertaining thing in the movie(I guess that's not saying much though.)
Okay, last call, because I'm getting ready for Christmas dinner. Rapid fire!
-Yeah that's the allegory
-He's not. Lex is trying to frame him, which makes him question the nature of his role as Superman. He doesn't want to be worshipped, he just wants to do good wherever he can, and there's plenty of Superman doing good in that film, how one would get the impression that Superman is bad from BvS baffles me.
-Yeah, but that's the point, this is Batman at his most violent and unhinged. You're supposed to know that's wrong. As for why he is this way, the whole opening of the movie is about the collection of traumas he carries with him, from his parents' death to Zod's attack on Metropolis. It gets elaborated on later on, with the added details that this is a Batman who has been at it for a while and who has lost sight of what his purpose is because of the ton and a half of bad stuff he's seen on the job, including the death of at least one Robin.
-This is taken from an interview about Watchmen. Nothing to do with BvS. It's about the movie Watchmen, based on the book Watchmen. It's explaining the difference between Watchmen and other comics in a way that, while totally cavalier in attitude, corresponds to what Alan Moore does in his comics.
-He's forming a part-human part-kryptonian abomination, technically
-Yeah, because of this stuff called "characters" and "motivations" and "plot" people seem to have trouble with
-The Snyder films take a lot of cues from the post-Crisis Superman comics, with John Byrne's work being a key influence. At that time, Lex Luthor's actions started getting patterned after the celebrity billionaire of the era, one Donald Trump. At that point in 2016, when we thought he would be of no relevance or consequence to our future, it made sense to pattern Luthor around a more contemporary influence, and, getting the actor that played that particular billionaire in a criticially-acclaimed movie was, in my opinion, a great idea. (I'm talking about Mark Zuckerberg. I'm saying BvS' Luthor is based on Mark Zuckerberg)
-The point of the scene is both to highlight the shared humanity of Batman and Superman (which moments earlier was put in doubt by Batman), but also to draw a direct parallel between Batman's actions and those of the man who killed his parents. It is the point at which Batman realizes he's become the very person that caused Bruce Wayne so much pain, and that realization is what makes him stop.
-It's sequel hook/prophecy, which, in the tradition of greek tragedy, immediately gets misinterpreted by Batman as a call to be even more unhinged.
THERE. DONE. SEE YOU NEVER.
-Yeah that's the allegory
-He's not. Lex is trying to frame him, which makes him question the nature of his role as Superman. He doesn't want to be worshipped, he just wants to do good wherever he can, and there's plenty of Superman doing good in that film, how one would get the impression that Superman is bad from BvS baffles me.
-Yeah, but that's the point, this is Batman at his most violent and unhinged. You're supposed to know that's wrong. As for why he is this way, the whole opening of the movie is about the collection of traumas he carries with him, from his parents' death to Zod's attack on Metropolis. It gets elaborated on later on, with the added details that this is a Batman who has been at it for a while and who has lost sight of what his purpose is because of the ton and a half of bad stuff he's seen on the job, including the death of at least one Robin.
-This is taken from an interview about Watchmen. Nothing to do with BvS. It's about the movie Watchmen, based on the book Watchmen. It's explaining the difference between Watchmen and other comics in a way that, while totally cavalier in attitude, corresponds to what Alan Moore does in his comics.
-He's forming a part-human part-kryptonian abomination, technically
-Yeah, because of this stuff called "characters" and "motivations" and "plot" people seem to have trouble with
-The Snyder films take a lot of cues from the post-Crisis Superman comics, with John Byrne's work being a key influence. At that time, Lex Luthor's actions started getting patterned after the celebrity billionaire of the era, one Donald Trump. At that point in 2016, when we thought he would be of no relevance or consequence to our future, it made sense to pattern Luthor around a more contemporary influence, and, getting the actor that played that particular billionaire in a criticially-acclaimed movie was, in my opinion, a great idea. (I'm talking about Mark Zuckerberg. I'm saying BvS' Luthor is based on Mark Zuckerberg)
-The point of the scene is both to highlight the shared humanity of Batman and Superman (which moments earlier was put in doubt by Batman), but also to draw a direct parallel between Batman's actions and those of the man who killed his parents. It is the point at which Batman realizes he's become the very person that caused Bruce Wayne so much pain, and that realization is what makes him stop.
-It's sequel hook/prophecy, which, in the tradition of greek tragedy, immediately gets misinterpreted by Batman as a call to be even more unhinged.
THERE. DONE. SEE YOU NEVER.
Triggerhappytel
Member
It would be very easy to recast though: hire a decent actor in his 50s to be Lex Sr, and have him at the beginning of the film show up at prison and tell Eisenberg what a disappointment he is. Then have him enact a much better and more successful plan and establish that he's the proper Luthor.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
It's something like "He didn't deliver me from daddy's fist and his abominations(?)", talking about God. Something like that. Then he does the "If good is all good..." line. He says it quickly when he's on the rooftop.
Not when you explain it with a flow chart!
L
Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah no, people keep saying this and then end up asking questions that were literally answered in the movie. Hell, see some of the posts above.
Thank Snyder for bringing something interesting to this crap genre. God knows Disney ain't gonna do it. Too bad WB chickened out and we got shit like Suicide Squad.
Not watched it?
Snyder is basically 'wouldn't it be cool or crazy or shocking if we did this, it might mean something deep like Greek myth and stuff. What if that picture was upside down, amazing. Jesus, get it, get it, get it, look a cross, a cross, do you see it! Jesus, Let's pump iron. Yeaaaah. The audience was not expecting that, guaranteed greatness right, why wouldn't it work.
BVS forced Marvel to step their game up. Snyder takes risks. He directed watchmen, made a visually innovative movie in the form of 300, and watchmen was before its time. Also, WB seem to take their fair share of risks, SS was a gamble and they are the first to do a female superhero and GSC will build on it.
The Killing Joke was very faithful to the original material. That's probably why it wasn't that interesting to anybody that read the comic.
I suppose being an accurate adaptation was necessary because comic nerds would go bat shit insane if they ever attempted to alter a famous story arc.
A good adaptation worked for Flashpoint but it would probably be best if DCAU stuck to original material instead of faithful adaptations. Less chance of pissing off the fanbase.
Da-Kid
Member
Outside of 300, all those movies are garbage. How did BvS force Marvel to step up their game? It was garbage.
Ganzlinger
Member
Eisenberg wasn't a good Lex, but his character was quite entertaining. Maybe annoying, but somehow still entertaining. So I welcome his return and I am curious to see if they will change him.
cartographer
Member
Yeah, the big issue people had with The Killing Joke was not in the original book. At all.
If it was just an adaptation, it would just be problematic like the original book is. The additions is what took it over the top and exacerbated the issues the original had.
Don't. You have encountered the fanboynicus stannilingus Rex. When in close proximity this species is particularly known for aggressive grandstanding and delusions of grandeur. Avoid until docile.
what the fuck guys it's OK you like it and other don't what is happening
OnimaruXLR
Member
Superman has come out so poorly thanks to Snyder. The character who's supposed to represent a bottomless well of optimism and positivity is a mopey, brooding, sadsack. His nemesis, who's supposed to either be either intimidating or charismatic (ideally both) is neither.
And he's stuck that way for at least another five years or so. What Doomsday did to Superman ain't shit compared to what Snyder and Goyer have done to him. I hope Frank Miller is proud.
And he's stuck that way for at least another five years or so. What Doomsday did to Superman ain't shit compared to what Snyder and Goyer have done to him. I hope Frank Miller is proud.
His relationship with Lois is so creepy. No chemistry at all, might as well be roommates
Autopsy would still show the cause of death via bullets.
Why didn't Lex reveal the identity of superman to everyone and ruin his shit? Much easier, less convoluted plan.
Why was superman written to be such a block head?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsGpdzHTXtg
TheRedSnifit
Member
"If God is all powerful he cannot be all good and if he is all good he cannot be all powerful."
He's having an existential crisis.
I can't believe I'm actually stuck defending this movie right now.
Because it makes no difference to the people he's trying to convince? They don't know he's being framed.
Bingo.
TheRedSnifit
Member
He definitely gave me Jim Carrey Riddler vibes, although that absolutely does not translate into "Should have been the Riddler."
broncobuster
Banned
Yep, but another unfortunate omission in the theatrical cut is them burning the bodies.
Do.... do you not know how autopsies work? Burning the bodies wont change the cause of death.
GreatEdmondo
Member
Which would accomplish what, exactly? Unless they were reduced to a skeleton (Which a flamethrower cannot do), there would still be evidence of bullet wounds. And even if they were reduced to skeletons, they were shot in the head and chest, so the skulls and rib cages would have holes where the bullets entered/left. So this accomplishes nothing.
And all of this doesn't matter anyway, as the CIA were spying on the whole thing, so they'd know the truth anyway.
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