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Mejilan · Mar 29, 2009

Totally ripped and converted the first two Suikos to PSP format. Currently grinding in the beginning of Suiko 1, in portable fashion. Feels great.

Of course, I forgot that I already bought Suiko 1 on the PSN, so technically, I didn't really need to convert my copy. Woops. Oh well. Turns out, I like my icons/background/sound bite/manual more.

GDJustin · Mar 29, 2009

shykyoichi said:
There's already one recently posted on Gamefaqs. It's the same one from the Suikox forums.

TY for this. It's certainly better than nothing. I still found that resource to be very confusing, though. With parenthesis, brackets, brackets with stars, etc. Additionally, it's just a LIST. It doesn't have *when* in the game the peeps on that list become available.

Example: I have Hotupa, and Yadima is in brackets by Hotupa, but that isn't actually that helpful.

What would be GREAT is someone could just say something like "collect these two stars at this point in the game, and these three at this 2nd point" if they're missable. And the rest I could figure out on my own.

Edit: I guess the way to use the guide is to use the timed and then ordered lists TOGETHER. So if I'm curious about Yadima, like the example I gave above, I can ctrl + F to look for the guide.

gregor7777 · Mar 29, 2009

Played a few hours today. Feels old school, and I like.

Hours Left · Mar 30, 2009

GDJustin said:
Can someone tell me who's missable? Or give a little mini-guide letting me know when I need to collect the missable Stars, so as to not miss them?

Don't worry about spoilers. I'm not hardcore enough about the game to really mind. As long as you aren't spoiling end-game.

Alternate Recruitment List (Spoilers)
http://www.suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=10449

Listed in order of recruitment. Some reading ahead is necessary for earliest possible recruitment. Missable characters are marked.

matmanx1 · Mar 30, 2009

It seems like I will be in the minority here but I just cant stick with this game. That voice acting just kills any desire I have to actually spend a decent amount of time with Suikoden Tierkreis and that's a shame because I really wanted to like it. The battle system is fast and good looking, the music is great for a DS game and it seemed like the story was starting to take off also. But sorry, there's no way I'm listening to 40 hours of THAT !

And please dont let me ruin the fun for any of you. This is just me being disapointed after really wanting to get into and enjoy this game. My only consolation is I have a nice DS RPG backlog and the DSi will be out in a number of days!

mjc · Mar 30, 2009

matmanx1 said:
It seems like I will be in the minority here but I just cant stick with this game. That voice acting just kills any desire I have to actually spend a decent amount of time with Suikoden Tierkreis and that's a shame because I really wanted to like it. The battle system is fast and good looking, the music is great for a DS game and it seemed like the story was starting to take off also. But sorry, there's no way I'm listening to 40 hours of THAT !

And please dont let me ruin the fun for any of you. This is just me being disapointed after really wanting to get into and enjoy this game. My only consolation is I have a nice DS RPG backlog and the DSi will be out in a number of days!

How many hours have you put in? I hated the voices at first too but I got used to the awkwardness.

Mejilan · Mar 30, 2009

Wow. What a shallow reason to contemplate dropping a game you're otherwise enjoying. Kudos.

Synth_floyd · Mar 30, 2009

So is it actually "the deepest handheld rpg of all time?"

matmanx1 · Mar 30, 2009

3 hours, tops. Not much, I know. And yes, Mejilan it is a shallow reason but one of the main reasons I play RPG's is to be immersed in the characters, story and world that is being presented. And maybe I'm being overly sensitive about it but the voice acting here just kills the immersion for me. And anytime that happens in an RPG it's almost an automatic interest-killer. What can I say? I'm weird like that.

Mejilan · Mar 30, 2009

You said it.

Erdrick · Mar 30, 2009

I've played about 10 hours in and while I still lament the lack of... it being a true Suikoden game, storyline-wise, if I ignore that and approach the game as a new IP or something, it's not as harsh a slap to the face of Suikoden fans. It's just at times when I hear some familiar songs or sound effects or even parallels of obvious characters or whatnot that I kind of feel saddened by what could have been done with this Suikoden. The main character annoys me, and the story just seems.... something off on it compared to other Suikoden games.

But you know what? Even though I am seemingly harsh on the game:

I am really enjoying it.

The music is fantastic, in both composition and sound quality. Battles are quick and mostly painless. The characters are pretty likable for the most part and I actually am beginning to care for some of them. The story is interesting and I like the streamlined mission-based stucture of it. Even the character design is starting to grow on me as well.

I understand many Suikoden fans are boycotting this game as a measure of protest. I understand their point, but... this is still a good game, and it does have SOME similarities such as the recruitment aspect, the types of characters like a gossiper, window maker and so forth from as far as I have played. It's not really the Suikoden I wanted, but I am glad that I did not ignore it because of it's... unrelated nature towards the past games.

And yes, the voice acting is bad a lot of the times, as the main character is seemingly on some crack or coke given how hyper and fast he seems to blurt out lines... It's certainly not worth quitting the game over though. Not all the acting is bad anyway. Some of the voices fit well, others do not.

My main concern is for the series to survive. It's had a hard past 8 years or so since Murayama left. They nailed it nearly with Suikoden V, which is why I was so shocked to see how this one came about instead. I then saw the sales data of the series in recent years and I understood why this was done. Not what *I* wou;d have done, but I guess at this point they figured they had nothing much else to lose.

I just really hope that the past games storyline and characters are not forgotten... ironically, like the DS Suikoden mentioned about "deepest handheld RPG of all time" they were kind of right, in the sense that the storyline of previous Suikoden games taken as a whole is one of the most in-depth and rich ones of all time.

Anyway, Suikoden Tierkreis is a very enjoyable game, aside from my griping. I have no regrets on buying it. It's a quality RPG, even if it is seemingly Genso Suikoden in name only.

GDJustin · Mar 30, 2009

Gunloc said:
Alternate Recruitment List (Spoilers)
http://www.suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=10449

Listed in order of recruitment. Some reading ahead is necessary for earliest possible recruitment. Missable characters are marked.

Ah, thanks very much. This is PERFECT. The other links would have been helpful, but this one is in the exact format I was hoping for. All I need to do is glance and see which blue characters I picked up last, and then go down the list, following all the requirements to pick up the next black (optional) chars.

The "spoiler level" is just right, too. Detailed enough that I'll (hopefully) be able to get all 108 with no fuss, but isn't giving away every detail.

lucablight · Mar 30, 2009

Synth_floyd said:
So is it actually "the deepest handheld rpg of all time?"

I couldn't be bothered typing out the reasons right now but short answer is NO. In terms of story and characterisation it doesn't compare to its console counterparts either.

shykyoichi · Mar 30, 2009

GDJustin said:
The "spoiler level" is just right, too. Detailed enough that I'll (hopefully) be able to get all 108 with no fuss, but isn't giving away every detail.

But you will be using a guide...

John Harker · Mar 30, 2009

Just started playing this, only about 2 hours in.

The game has an impressive amount of voice acting and cut scenes, in the beginning at least. Does it stay this way throughout the whole game? Roughly how long is it?

Booo for frequency of random battles, but wooohoo for Auto battle!

Mareg · Mar 30, 2009

John Harker said:
Just started playing this, only about 2 hours in.

The game has an impressive amount of voice acting and cut scenes, in the beginning at least. Does it stay this way throughout the whole game? Roughly how long is it?

Booo for frequency of random battles, but wooohoo for Auto battle!

Yes, its very consistent with voice acting and even cut scenes. I am actually quite impressed at the amount they have been able to put in that cart. I'm about 30h in and the game doesn't slow down one bit.

The battles frequency did get on my nerves at some points... until I learned to flee them. You see, this is not your standard RPG grind fest. If you get in a «tedious» dungeon or you have to backtrack and such, just flee them fights. Since this is the suikoden experience system, it is no problem if you didn't grind. Once you get in a new place and your lvl is low, a couple of fight will skyrocket your party to requisite lvl. It is soooo convenient.

gregor7777 · Mar 30, 2009

Does it seem to anyone else that the main characters voice actor is a speed talker? :lol Was that done on purpose?

EDIT: ah, last page. Still, it almost seems like a glitch.

Mareg · Mar 30, 2009

gregor7777 said:
Does it seem to anyone else that the main characters voice actor is a speed talker? :lol Was that done on purpose?

EDIT: ah, last page. Still, it almost seems like a glitch.

He is fast. But after the first 5 hours, I have been able to convince my brain that it is indeed on purpose. I see him as an hyperactive youth and it works great that way. Most of the other voice acting are at normal speed.

GDJustin · Mar 30, 2009

shykyoichi said:
But you will be using a guide...

I meant that that link doesn't give away every *storyline* detail.

I don't mind that it gives away detail on nabbing all 108 stars.

I've always felt that it was poor form when the Suikoden games had missable stars... creates too much stress & confusion. In a perfect world, everyone would be collectable until a joint, final point of no return.

Javaman · Mar 30, 2009

I'm just a couple of hours in and loving it so far. The dubbing hasn't bothered me at all. I usually just tell myself that it's part of their accent.

Is it just me or are there extra characters shown from time to time. During the first mission, you have 4 people in your party but five are shown in the

Book room

.

Same thing towards the end of the second mission...

Extra character besides the merchant

AbortedWalrusFetus · Mar 30, 2009

Well, I picked this up yesterday and played for a few hours, and I'm enjoying it decently, but...

This just isn't a Suikoden game. It feels and plays nothing like one. It's really not even similar to the rest of the series thus far and aside from a few tenuous things it just doesn't feel anything like Suikoden. I don't know if this changes or not later on in the game, but at this point I feel like the only reason it's called Suikoden is to get series fans to pick up a copy. I won't say I'm not enjoying it thus far, but it seems like such a drastic departure from a series that except for a few examples (or more accurately one example, IV) was pretty much perfect, and I'm not really sure I understand why they did it.

Javaman said:
I'm just a couple of hours in and loving it so far. The dubbing hasn't bothered me at all. I usually just tell myself that it's part of their accent.

Is it just me or are there extra characters shown from time to time. During the first mission, you have 4 people in your party but five are shown in the

Book room

.

Same thing towards the end of the second mission...

Extra character besides the merchant

Liu is in your party, he's just not playable. Hero, Marica, Jale, Dirk, and Liu are all involved in the events of the first mission.

eXistor · Mar 30, 2009

I've only just started playing, but in the two hours I'm into it I'm really liking it. It has a lot more Suikoden elements than I expected. The only real downsides so far are a total lack of interaction with the environments and the battlesystem. Only for one or two bossfights have I manually chose actions, every single other time I just hit auto-battle and be done with it. The game is definitely stuck in the past, but strangely I'm still having a really good time with it. It's simple but effective.

shykyoichi · Mar 31, 2009

Javaman said:
Is it just me or are there extra characters shown from time to time. During the first mission, you have 4 people in your party but five are shown in the

Book room

.

Same thing towards the end of the second mission...

Extra character besides the merchant

There's something like a convoy in Suikoden games where plot characters always go when they really need to be with you.

I keep missing the vocals in the intro song. I prefer the JP version.

shykyoichi · Apr 3, 2009

CALLING HIMU!!!

Dearest Konami has answered most of the questions sent by suikofans.

From Suikosource:
For the release of Suikoden Tierkreis, the Suikoden team at Konami (via Konami of America) agreed to answer some questions from fans. We asked you for questions, and compiled twenty of the best ones from the forum. Thirteen came back with answers. Here they are.

1. Will Suikoden II make it to the PSN as Suikoden I did?

We definitely hope so as it provides a great chance for old and new fans of the series to experience on of the original games in the series but unfortunately nothing can be confirmed at the moment.

2. Will a non-promotional compilation of Suikoden songs finally be released commercially outside of Japan?

After hearing the many voices and requests of our customers and fans, we are looking into all of these options in the future.

3. Why do not you expand and complement the Suikoden plot with an anime series? The Japanese market has been shown strong interest in printed and mobile comics since the release of Suikoden V. Moreover, many Suikoden fans loved the anime introductions in Suikoden III and the gaidens.

We are considering many of these kinds of developments for future promotions.

4. Has any thought been given to licensing graphics/rendering engines used in other RPGs to decrease the cost of a full console version of a Suikoden game? Square Enix's multiplatform "Crystal Tools" engine, used for Final Fantasy XIII, and Sega's "CANVAS" engine, used for Valkyria Chronicles, are two that immediately come to mind. Anyone who has seen Valkyria Chronicles in action should see the visual possibilities of a Suikoden game built on the CANVAS engine.

Weâd like to use a detailed graphic engine to express the world of Suikoden, but without it being prepossessed, whether it is in Konami or outside.

5. I'd be interested to know if the current writing team are sticking to any plotlines (I.E. The Pesmerga/Yuber mystery, Hikusaak's status, post-Suikoden III developments, etc.) laid out by Murayama when he was in charge, or if the answers to these questions have even been decided already or not, by Murayama or otherwise.

We try to never ignore the former series and we have various ideas on the story developments after Tierkreis that may reveal answers to certain questions but we canât get into any details at the this time.

6. I noticed you've brought new composers to join Norikazu Miura in creating the sounds for Suikoden Tierkreis, but not Miki Higashino despite the team hinting at wanting to bring her back. Any immediate plan for this, like in the next game?

Ms. Higashino is working freelance now, so there is a possibility.

7. Suikoden Tierkreis may be a spin-off, and a handful of fans may wish it be forgotten from the rest of the series, I think it also brings interesting elements to the series. I've played the game and see virtually no linkage to the main series despite the production team claiming that this is set in a parallel dimension. So, any plans to link Tierkreis' plot back to the future installment in the main series?

There isnât a direct connection to the former series, but Suikoden Tierkreis and the former series both are on the same "Infinity." In Tierkreis, we focused the "Infinity" concept, so we could look at whole Suikoden worlds, and developed a completely new story from there. This is because we wanted to expand new "Gateways" and new "Possibility" for the future of Suikoden. Itâs a bit too early to say exactly how the series will progress but please look forward to future announcements.

8. If money and other business issues were not present, would you rather develop new locations/worlds with minimal connection to the previous Suikoden areas, or stick to expanding previously known settings?

As a developer, we enjoy creating new stories, and we think Tierkreis is a great new story in the Suikoden universe.

9. What is the thoughts on sprites used in Suikoden? A lot of people said that the series went downhill after Suikoden II mostly due to the game becoming 3D and no longer having the same feel in terms of art. And how do the developers feel about people ripping the sprites of the old games?

Itâs important to consider the trends in the market, the platformsâ capacity, and which method is most appropriate to express a view into the world of Suikoden. On this point, I think the former games chose the proper platforms to push the limits of the time, and Tierkreis also challenges the limits of the DS platform.

10. The Narcissist characters have been decreasing in importance throughout the Suikoden series (one of the two narcissist characters, Milich Oppenheimer being a primary character in Suikoden I, Suikoden V having only a single unimportant female narcissist, and no narcissist character present in Suikoden Tierkries). We often find their presence to be an original aspect to the series and often also welcome splash of color and comic relief. Do you plan on reintroducing prominent narcissists into future titles?

Thank you for your interesting opinion, we will consider this in future development of Suikoden games.

11. The trinity sight system from Suikoden III received rave reviews from critics in the past due to its originality and depth of story line. Do you plan on using multi-perspective story telling in any future Suikoden games?

We are planning many different appropriate methods to tell the story of Suikoden, not only Trinity system.

12. Branching dialogue choices have been a part of Suikoden since the early games in the series. It is refreshing not to be limited to too many "But thou must" dialogue loops created from false choices. Besides the ability to recruit or miss the 108 stars, there are other examples such as in Suikoden V when we saw a behind the scenes "likeable points" system which made choices have impact on future cinematics. Are there any plans to build upon this flexible and interactive system in future Suikoden titles?

Tierkreis has the largest amount of choices in the Suikoden series, and also has a "friendship point" system, which is different from Suikoden V. That parameter is important to express the differences in unique characters of a group. We are always trying to develop new things to make enjoyable games.

13. Suikoden IV and Tactics are, generally, not esteemed as highly as the rest of the series, but most players agree that they had many good ideas. Has any thought been given to extracting gameplay mechanics that were thought to have 'worked' in those games, and applying them to other Suikoden games? For instance, the tailor system from Suikoden IV, or the isometric grid-battle system (which could be used for moving battalions in war battles) from Suikoden Tactics.

Weâre not looking to remake the previous Suikoden games at this point, as weâd like to provide new experiences that appeal to both long time fans of the series and people that have never player a Suikoden game before.

Questions from the Suikoden Community Suikox.com

Question #1: Many Suikoden games worked old save data into bonuses or unlockables in subsequent games. Does the introduction of a hard drive and constant internet access on the latest generation of systems open up any possibilities of similar rewards for long time fans of the series who have played multiple games?
Konami: While we have not made any announcements regarding future Suikoden titles we always try and take advantage of all the technical advancements in the new platforms. We did this in Suikoden Tierkreis by utilizing the Wi-Fi connectivity of the Nintendo DS to create a new and unique addition to the series and we hope to continue this sort of growth in future games.

Question #2: Many Suikoden fans fell in love with Hugo, Geddoe, and Chris Lightfellow of Suikoden III for their expressive personalities. Can we expect to see more talkative main characters, or will we see more silent heroes?
Konami: The main theme of Suikoden Tierkreis is the infinite probability of future, so the Hero has to have his own will to work towards the future. If he didnt speak, he wouldnt have conviction in his beliefs. If the series continues the attitude of the next games Hero will depend on what the theme is and how it effects [sic] the Hero.

Vextor: I think the hero in any Suikoden would need to have his own will to work towards the future. So is Konami saying Tir McDohl didn't have his own will? Riou didn't have his own will? Prince Freyjadour didn't have his own will?? As for Lazlo... well, he didn't really have his own will did he (but that's more of an issue with the overall plot, or the lack thereof).

Question #3: Many Suikoden fans like Fumi Ishikawa's artwork but do you plan to use her as an artist in future Suikodens? Why isn't her great talent being utilized by Konami (her last work was for Oz)?
Konami: She is now energetically working on other projects.

Vextor: Which project? We haven't seen her work at all since Oz, which was released YEARS ago!! I love her artwork! I want her back on Suikoden (and many fans also agree)!!

Question #4: Chris Lightfellow was a very popular female lead in Suikoden III, Do you think that a female Tenkai Star is possible in the future and what do you think are the challenges to using a women as the main character?

Konami: The main character does not necessarily have to be male. If we decide to create another Suikoden title, theres a possibility that the main character could be female the next time around.

Vextor: Which also means it's possible to have another teenage boy as the hero for the 5th time!

Question #5: If Suikoden Tierkreis is the future of the series can we expect to get any form of resolution to the unanswered questions of the old series?
Konami: It is too early to say but it will depend on how the games progress in the future, but we would like to resolve many of Suikodens mysteries.

Vextor: How can it bee too early to answer questions that was posed more than a decade ago? (such as, "what the heck is Jeane" and, "where does Viki come from?") If it's still too early after a decade, will my grandkids be the ones hearing the answers??

Question #6: Why did you choose to set Tierkreis in an alternate and seemingly unrelated world when one of the major reasons fans appreciate the series so much are the connecting stories, characters, locations, etc. Is it just to attract new fans? And if so, why would you want to use an unrelated game (story wise) as an entry point to the series for new comers, when, if they decide to become more involved in the series they'll have to immerse themselves in the original story line and locations anyway? And are you not worried that this will just drive away old fans?

Konami: The earlier Suikoden games were all in the same world and same timeline. Its true that this is a large attraction for fans of the series, but it also can be a barrier for players who are new to Suikoden. The development team had some trouble with moving the story forward due to the long 14 year history, that we think wouldnt be resolved by remaking the former games. In Suikoden Tierkreis, we wanted to focus on the Infinity, where we can look at many different Suikoden worlds, and develop a completely new story for each. Weve expanded new Gateways and new Possibility for the future of Suikoden. Its a bit too early to say exactly how the series will progress but please look forward to future announcements.

Vextor: I'm glad Konami is finally leveling with the fans and saying the past history of Suikoden has gotten too complex that they have difficulty moving forward with it. However, that complex history is precisely what sets Suikoden apart from the other dozens of RPG titles. Fans of the series are able to understand the complex history of Suikoden, and many fans have created their own stories, such as their own versions of the Succession War (taking place before Suikoden 1) or the Higheast Rebellion (which supposedly takes place after Suikoden 2). If fans can do this, why can't the development team do the same?

Also, it's good you're trying to cultivate new fans, but you also end up tossing out your old fans who supported the series for the past 14 years. I'm not saying "cater to us old fans," but do understand that completely alienating fans from previous suikodens comes as a slap in the face.

Further nitpicking, is that the "Infinity" as defined within Tierkreis was originally translated as the "Million Worlds," how these worlds are described more as a "Parallel World" in Tierkreis, instead of as a totally separate world (such as the World of Wings and Scales and the World of Emptiness) ends up being inconsistent from previous Suikoden installations.

Generally, this answer is quite disappointing, but thanks for the honesty.

Question #7: In the official timeline, it says that Crowley and Mazus had a duel before when they're supposed to have been born. Did they reincarnate? What is the story behind this, or is it an error?
Konami: Other story developments, like this one, may become clear in the future.

Vextor: Why not clarify it now? I severely doubt Konami will revisit the whole Crowley / Mazus deal based on the answer to question #6!

Question #8: Many fans have heated debates over what makes a Suikoden game Suikoden, and often refer to to the "Suikoden feel" of a game. Depending on who you talk to it can be the story, the 108 stars of destiny, the true runes/rune system, 6 person battles, or any number of things. What would you consider to be the core qualities of Suikoden? What gives a game that "Suikoden feel?"
Konami: The grand story of 108 people is what makes a true Suikoden game. Not only 108 allies, but also enemies, who have their own drama, and live in the Suikoden world. This is what makes the games so interesting.

Vextor: Well, in Suikoden III the 108 stars included enemies as well, but I understand that Konami's understand of what a "Suikoden Feel" is, is that as long as the game has 108 allies, the game can be labeled as a Suikoden.

Question #9: How does fan feedback factor into the development of the Suikoden games? Is it something that is seriously considered and actively looked for, and if so, has such feedback resulted in tangible changes in game development (examples would be appreciated)?

Konami: We try to read all letters and messages from our fans about the former games in the Suikoden series. We have paid especially close attention to things people have pointed out as faults and referred to them as we have tried to develop a better game.

Vextor: Unfortunately, Tierkreis still has translation errors and spelling errors, etc! There also seems to be no clearly defined way for fans to give feedback to the development team. Please clarify!

Question #10: Was there any reason behind characters and other objects being named after Zoroastrian mythology in Suikoden V?
Konami: Suikoden V is a story of the Sun, so Zoroastrian mythology, which often uses the images of light and fire, was a strong influence in some parts.

Vextor: Very understandable! Of course, the True Fire Rune is probably closer in meaning, but I'm just being picky here.

Question #11: Are you considering remaking Suikoden I and II? Suikoden I and II would look pretty amazing in HD, with crisp and sharp graphics (keep it in sprites), bright and exciting colours and of course HD size.

Konami: That is an interesting idea; we will consider it in the future.

Vextor: I hope it's interesting! A used copy of Suikoden II sells at over $100 on ebay, which is also very very interesting! Should be a no-brainer, really.

Question #12: Why was Suikoden III not released in Europe (PAL) and is there ever going to be a chance for European gamers to play the game?
Konami: Unfortunately the game can only work with NTSC so the probability of it releasing for PAL is very low.

Vextor: That doesn't really answer the question of "why." Suikoden 1, 2, 4 and 5 were all released for PAL, so this answer makes no sense to anybody. However, I do understand Konami doesn't plan to release Suikoden III in PAL regions, which is disappointing to say the least.

Hero of Legend · Apr 3, 2009

Please tell me that questions are still being taken.

Mejilan · Apr 3, 2009

Whew, that's a whole truck-full of non-answers, there.

speedpop · Apr 3, 2009

Yeah nothing really answered there :lol

Hobbun · Apr 3, 2009

A whole lot of nothing.

Robobandit · Apr 3, 2009

Those are PR answers, as expected.

I'm looking forward to playing more tierkreis when I get my DSi this weekend.

I like it a lot so far.. and I think I'm around 7-10 hours in.

GDJustin · Apr 3, 2009

I'm sooo hot and cold on this game.

I played for about 2 hours tonight, and during the first hour I was seriously incredibly bored/exasperated... contemplating returning the game to GameFly, cutting my losses, and posting some high-level hate in this topic.

But the 2nd hour tonight was fantastic, and I only quit playing because the DS was dying and the charger is in the bedroom where my wife is sleeping :lol

It was hours 10-12 I got through tonight, if anyone cares. Hours ~7-11 are incredibly low, low points for this or any RPG, it seems. You experience 5-8 unwinnable scripted battles. Stupid story scenarios (the lengthy porpos diversion), redundant and uninteresting Magedom introductory quests, etc.

The game got more interesting when

The Lazdaa fortress got pwned and the king of the Magedom went all aggro. The castle upgrade is freakin badass( THERE'S A WATERFALL ON THE ROOF), and it seems like TWELVE FUCKING HOURS IN the world has finally opened up, in terms of scouting out optional recruits and completing side-missions.

PunjabiPlaya · Apr 3, 2009

Well, I beat the game today after putting about 28 hours into the game and the game was honestly very addicting.

I didn't get the best ending, and honestly

the normal ending was kinda lame. I watched the best ending and it want all that great, but whatever.

I guess it's time to start Suikoden 2, which is apparently great according to many of you guys.

speedpop · Apr 3, 2009

GDJustin said:
The game got more interesting when

The Lazdaa fortress got pwned and the king of the Magedom went all aggro. The castle upgrade is freakin badass( THERE'S A WATERFALL ON THE ROOF), and it seems like TWELVE FUCKING HOURS IN the world has finally opened up, in terms of scouting out optional recruits and completing side-missions.

It's really a curse that the game only becomes absolutely awesome in the later areas. The only thing that kept me powering through was the quest system and the fact that the game moves so swift in everything. There's never a moment where you are going "well where the fuck do I go now?" and I praise the fact that they ditched the traditional overworld/town running antics that is a staple of RPGs, instead making it much more linear (even if it is the wrong word to use) to the point where it feels like a mesh of an RPG and text adventure game. Kudos to Konami for waking up and smelling the roses.

I find it kind of disheartening to know that as soon as you "unlock" the Auster race that your recruits from there are absolute machines. Ordovic is one of, if not the best character in the game.. as well Vaslof and Indrik are among the top tiers in both attack and defense.

I suppose the only differences in characters themselves are due to abilities they inherit from the Stars and whether they mesh with the right battle moment at the time.

PunjabiPlaya said:
I guess it's time to start Suikoden 2, which is apparently great according to many of you guys.

You're in for a good time man. A very good time. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Augemitbutter · Apr 3, 2009

finally opened my copy and started playing yesterday. almost shed a tear listening to the suiko-theme at the name input screen. but that quickly evaporated when i was exposed to the voice acting :lol as expected, the backgrounds are all around pretty, but the models are a terrible mess! why did konami decide to torture me like this? it shouldnt have been too hard to implement some solid spritework in there. im very dissapointed with this part. im just about two hours in, but at least the music seems to be up to old standards.

i think those answers from konami up there are as bad as my first impressions.....

shykyoichi · Apr 3, 2009

Hero of Legend said:
Please tell me that questions are still being taken.

Nope. The deadline was a few weeks ago. All invited suikoden forums have submitted their questions already. They're just waiting for the reply of Konami.

7. Suikoden Tierkreis may be a spin-off, and a handful of fans may wish it be forgotten from the rest of the series, I think it also brings interesting elements to the series. I've played the game and see virtually no linkage to the main series despite the production team claiming that this is set in a parallel dimension. So, any plans to link Tierkreis' plot back to the future installment in the main series?

There isn't a direct connection to the former series, but Suikoden Tierkreis and the former series both are on the same "Infinity." In Tierkreis, we focused the "Infinity" concept, so we could look at whole Suikoden worlds, and developed a completely new story from there. This is because we wanted to expand new "Gateways" and new "Possibility" for the future of Suikoden. It's a bit too early to say exactly how the series will progress but please look forward to future announcements.

This is my favorite answer. At least, they're honest.

speedpop · Apr 5, 2009

I suppose Tierkreis will always remain a black sheep of sorts; blind-faith Suikoden fans will hate upon it because it isn't "Suikoden" enough, and normal RPG fans would rather play something that doesn't seem so spin-off'ish.

Yet for some reason, outside of the Dragon Quest remakes, this is the most fun I've had playing an RPG in quite a number of years. I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't feel the same way.

Augemitbutter · Apr 5, 2009

about 7 hours in and beginning to like it. a faint suikoden-feeling is starting to manifest. but the war aspect is still very laid-back, without any thrill. also the character artwork isnt as bad as my first impression. or maybe i just got used to it.

i dunno, lets see!

wackojackosnose · Apr 5, 2009

What's the availability of this game like in the US?

I read that the PAL version was discontinued as soon as it was printed, with some stores getting only one copy for the shelf or not even a copy at all.

mjc · Apr 5, 2009

I'm not huge into Suikoden as it stands, but I don't think of Tierkreis as a lame spinoff either.

Wilsongt · Apr 5, 2009

The game is getting an undeserved amount of hate. Mainly from the Suiko-fans.

I give you this excerpt from another forum I go to:

I think the initial problem is that, Konami knows what the fans f**king want, they're just not giving us that for some reason.

Although they haven't released any information about them taking the original canon and ditching it for this alternate universe bullshit, they haven't exactly given us any comforting news about how they plan to continue on from Suikoden III either.

Konami is asking SuikoX members for their questions now, and I really hope they GET THE POINT THIS TIME. The same question seems to be popping up over and over again, which is: "Will you continue with the canonical titles?"

Yeah, okay, I'm a whiny fanboy little bitch. Glad. We like Suikoden because they gave us characters that we could actually become attached to without having to see them disappear in the next game. That's what differentiated the series from games like Final Fantasy, Wild Arms, etc. Not to mention one of the most unique magic systems in any RPG game, ever, that they just so happen decided to get rid of.

I understand that this is a side game, but honestly, if this thing sells well, I think they may continue to go down this bullshit road.

With that said, I WILL give this game a chance, but I'm going to sit real pretty until the folks over at Konami decide they've officially made the decision not to f**k their fans over. Word.

And this gem:

I'm not really sure what I'm talking about. I haven't even played Suikoden.

Anyway, Konami usually has made enough solid connections between games to remain on a suffice level with their fans. Between the complexities of the main canonical story line and the complex back stories, I'm still very surprised they've managed to please us this much, but by the look of that questionnaire on SuikoX, they might be getting lazy about putting effort into the world they've built for us. It was only a matter of time before they completely went against the grain by essentially ditching everything that makes it a Suikoden game. See, Final Fantasy is in no way the best RPG series, IMO. But, I honestly think they've kept such a solid fan base because they've gotten their fans used to the fact that they will be seeing a new cast of characters each game. Sure, games like Wild Arms do this as well, but Final Fantasy offers a new system of gameplay each time. If you're going to make the f**king connections between games and tease your fans, LIVE UP TO IT.

Konami potentially has a huge disappointment in store, because there is a very good chance that they've left us all with a ton of geography to be covered, storylines that won't be concluded, and an entire unique system that has essentially now become subject to change depending on what THEY feel like doing.

"What makes a Suikoden game?", is what the fans have been debating.

Well, the recruiting of 108 stars and the unique magic system involving Runes isn't far off from hitting the nail on the head. Tierkreis doesn't have those things. I won't be converted so easily. I'm not saying I won't eventually give it a chance, I just want to see some promising info from Konami before I decide to pump my money into any future blueprints that will steer clear from what I actually love about the series.

This is my favorite game series of all time. Why don't they just f**king set the next Star Wars movie on Planet Earth? If only Suikoden had the same fan base to petition against this potential butchery.

Now, like I said, I'm not going to completely ignore this game, I will give it a try. But there is no denying that this leaves a world of potential for Konami to lose a significant part of Suikoden's fan base.

mjc · Apr 5, 2009

So the guy never played a Suikoden game before and yet he's ragging Tierkreis like he's a seasoned veteran.

:lol :lol :lol :lol

Wilsongt · Apr 5, 2009

mjc said:
So the guy never played a Suikoden game before and yet he's ragging Tierkreis like he's a seasoned veteran.

:lol :lol :lol :lol

There was a post before that from saying saying "What are you talking about? There are a lot of non-returning characters."

Of which his retort was saying that he's never played a Suikoden game, kind of as sarcasm. But, it does kind of make his arguments against playing SuikoT even that much more laughable seeing as how there are only a few re-occurring characters, anyway.

Mejilan · Apr 5, 2009

Eh, I think we all know that the great internet has given everyone a voice, including the worst samples of pseudo-fanboy d-baggery.

I'm heavily into Fire Emblem DS and Suikoden 1 (PSP) at the moment, so I've only peripherally sampled tiny chunks of SuikoT so far, but it's definitely not a bad portable RPG, by any measure. It's a shockingly high-budget outing on the DS, featuring a ridiculous amount of VA, excellent 2D artwork, and a very high quality soundtrack in-line with franchise expectations. And there's nothing so horribly ruined about the gameplay that merits awarding it truly blind hate and boycotts.

We've known for ages that it wasn't going to be SuikoVI. There was plenty of time to get acclimated to that concept; even providing for the unusually quick localization turnaround time. I haven't yet progressed far enough to really open up the game, but from what I read concerning the mission structure, it seems like a cool fusion of Suiko elements to the FFTA/FFTA 2-like questing system, only with greater rewards.

Can't wait. But I plan on wrapping up FE, Suiko1, and Suiko2 on my portables first. Then I'll probably move on to SuikoT, and possibly Suiko3... Even with the hacking I've employed to get my PSOne copies of Suiko1 and Suiko2 working on the PSP, I should be able to successfully transfer my clear data from 1 to 2 without issue. I'm not too sure I'll be able to prep my Suiko 2 PSP clear file for use on my PS2 and Suiko3, though. That should prove an interesting challenge...

Wilsongt · Apr 5, 2009

I started up SuikoI a few nights ago, but only played about 30 minutes of it. This was on emulator, though. I'm debating on breaking out my old memory card, plugging in my 19" SDTV and plugging the PSone into that and playing through SuikoI and SuikoII after I polish off SuikoT.

However, doing all that depends on how far I get working on my proposal and how much time I have after trying to meet my 2-week deadline for my research stuff.

shykyoichi · Apr 5, 2009

Wilsongt said:
The game is getting an undeserved amount of hate. Mainly from the Suiko-fans.

Is that from suikox or suikosource? 'Cuz most of the more logical and sane fans are there. *cringe from looking at gamefaqs' Tierkreis board*

Duck Amuck said:
lmao

What's your thoughts on Konami's response?

By the way, to all those that says Suikoden fans have blind fate and whiny attitude, please be reminder that NOBODY forced Konami to name this game as Suikoden. Unlike FF (excluding spinoffs), wherein the said games aren't connected to each other, Suikoden games have a shared history. Since the game was named Suikoden, fans expected at least something from Konami.

Though I'd admit that some fans have gone to the extreme end.

(I already bought three copies of the game: 1 JP, 2 US. Gave one to my sister. And she liked it.)

Mejilan · Apr 6, 2009

Actually, it does make sense that this one is called Suikoden. There are more than enough shared elements and gameplay mechanics to justify it.

shykyoichi · Apr 6, 2009

Mejilan said:
Actually, it does make sense that this one is called Suikoden. There are more than enough shared elements and gameplay mechanics to justify it.

How many Sukoden games have you played?

Teknoman · Apr 6, 2009

Not a long time Suikoden fan by any means, and I still need to play the PSN Suikoden 1, but Tiekreis looks like a good game. Definite pick up after I clear out some of my other DSrpgs.

sprsk · Apr 6, 2009

Perhaps the most unpronouncable title for a game ever.

I can hear the calls at gamestop: IM LOOKIN FOR SOOIKOWAYDEN TIE CRISIS?

GDJustin · Apr 6, 2009

shykyoichi said:
How many Sukoden games have you played?

Duck Amuck said:
Whu. Buh. Huh?

Oh Christ.

For all the NON INSANE Suikoden fans out there, Suikoden = a typical RPG with 108 recruitable characters and a sweet expanding castle/home base. These are the franchise's defining characteristics.

No one but you crazies cares about the weapon sharpening, the bath houses, the magic system.

And I'm a big, BIG Suikoden fan.

I grok that different aspects of Suikoden appeal to different people. And I too am sad that Tierkreis's storyline is less political. But your replies are laughable. If you ask a casual fan about Suikoden, I promise you their response would be "that's the game with dozens of potential party members, right?"

Drinky Crow · Apr 6, 2009

'bout halfway through the game. if i had to review it, i'd end with the tagline "well, at least it occupies time."

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