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[AniHawk]

Are people really upset that threads about a softcore kiddie porn game aren't allowed?

people are actually boycotting the game because the us publisher toned it down just enough so that it would actually come out in the west.

so yes.

 

[CrovaxPSO]

Monster Monpiece has already been brought up, but I'd like to use it as an example of why simply shutting down threads might not be the best option. Before the game was released in English, the threads quickly spiraled out of control, even though I and some others tried to explain that the questionable content was a relatively small part of the overall game. When the game actually was released, impressions were mostly positive despite the sexualized aspects of the rubbing minigame, and the OT for it has been without problems. I can't comment specifically about Criminal Girls, as I've only seen a handful of screenshots, but in general I don't think disallowing threads for games with this sort of content serves that great of a purpose other than to ensure that any controversy doesn't get too crazy.

I know it's not the responsibility of the mods to make sure that a game is given fair discourse, but I can't help but feel that appropriate moderation of posters who cause or contribute to threads like that to going out of control would be a better option that simply locking the threads. In the end it's up to the mods to decide whether or not that's the best solution for the site as a whole, and I would respect their decision either way.

 

[Cuburt]

There is an interesting discussion to be had here about the prevalence of games like that on the Vita actually making it out to the West, despite such public aversion and vitriol to said games, but that's for another time.

 

[The Technomancer]

Are people really upset that threads about a softcore kiddie porn game aren't allowed?

All or nothing man. If you accept some things you have to accept everything or else you're a hypocrite man

 

[Shouta]

What the heck are the Vita owners supposed to talk about any more then?

Real games? Ore Shika 2, Freedom Wars, Soul Sacrifice Delta, Tales of Hearts R, or JP games like Ao no Kiseki Evolution, SRWZ3, The new Danganronpa that's coming?

 

[Neiteio]

people are actually boycotting the game because the us publisher toned it down just enough so that it would actually come out in the west.

I didn't even know this game existed until today, let alone that it's actually coming to the U.S.

I still don't understand what it's about, but I'm not exactly interested to find out.

 

[Lambda Pie]

Yeah. There's no labia showing in that trailer, or anywhere in the game. Unless by "showing" you mean the faintest outline of anatomy through the clothes, in which case you're not using the verb "showing" correctly.

i fully agree. how bad can it be if you can't even see the virtual children's genitalia while rubbing their crotch, right? pre-ordered cancelled, etc...

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Artificial Academy 2 is a straight-up porn game as deep as The Sims 2: University with plenty of interesting stories randomly happening through NPC interaction, and there's many funny stuff can be shared and discussed without mentioning the porn part.

I feel like eroge are a bit different by virtue of being text-based. They're rarely if ever all sex, even nukige ones. I'm sure many have merits beyond sex.

 

[RoninChaos]

I have huge respect for Charlie and Steve, big fan of their work. But if you really need a comprehensive explanation for why cartoon child porn is being banned here then you need to take a long hard look at your life.

Seriously. It's like this is a catch all for who on GAF has no issue with the sexualization of children. I'm sure someone is making a list.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

I don't see how banning talk about it sets an uncomfortable precedent. You can easily find somewhere else to openly talk about games where the main intention is to get you off and regardless of GAF being an online message board, you're still essentially talking about this sort of thing in a public space.

Unless I'm missing something, while having a mandate you must be over 13 years-old GAF has never labelled itself as a NSFW board, right? Just doesn't seem like this is particularly out of line with what's already been established.

I mean, I don't see why you'd need to continuously talk about something solely designed to help get you off in the first place, though I admittedly don't know what Crinimal Girls actually is beyond the vague descriptions of its BDSM shit and that piece of concept art a few people posted.

 

[Seik]

Reading over the thread (and that particular thread was pretty reasonable with some good discussion too, it's not even like there was much posting of pictures from the game or anything) - yeah, how does a thread like that get locked, while threads about games where you murder people, torture people, whatever other sick and disgusting things are done in games these days, doing all sorts of other horrible things to people stay open and have big threads about them?

No, rape isn't acceptable. Of course.
Neither is sexual assult on minors.

But then, neither is murder.
Neither is torture.
Neither is a good portion of other stuff that you see in many games.

I thought most people here were of the mindset of "It's just a video game!" and against restrictions on video games and such.

To be clear, I'm not specifically trying to make a case in favor of games involving rape, sexual assault, etc.
More like I find games which involve murder, torture, etc. to be disgusting as well - and yet there's plenty of discussion about games like that here.

So, why is all that other stuff fine to discuss here?

IMO, people can do whatever they want to do in their games. ANYTHING.

Just don't freaking do that kind of filth with children, it's not appropriate as it should never be.

I don't understand why you keep comparing children porn to other kind of controversial stuff involving adults. We're not in the same category.

It's just not the same thing, you don't freaking show/touch children. I think that's a pretty basic golden rule or blueprint for video games and for any freaking kind of entertainment on this planet.

 

[Ryuukan]

It is. It's an awesome JRPG. It has one of my all-time favourite turn-based JRPG battle systems. Many people here seem to think that because they find some content offensive the game must also be poorly made. Sorry to tell you all, this is not the case. It is a finely crafted game with a fun story and characters.



lol. OK.

What was Imageepoch's latest work?
Oh right, a 20 year old eroge port

 

[sn00zer]

Good. Its a fucking shame these types of games have been popularized enough for people to actually put effort into them to put qualified game designers on them localize them around the world. This is basically the worst case scenario when this sort of stuff started cropping up years ago.

 

[Dragonborn]

I can't help but agree with these two posts out of everything I've read here. I felt when reading the threads that they often devolve in to circular arguments regarding what is or is not "right" to some asinine standard. Unfortunately often any fan service heavy games seem to elicit this response, not to fault either side, but the threads were often painful to read, and contained little to no discussion on the merits of the game (if any) that exist. I feel that people seemed to be almost using some of the more questionable titles to provoke far more argumentative conversation than normal, as well. I wholly agree with the moderator decision here, and I think the community will realistically be better off for it.

And let me just put it out there that even though I play games with 18+ material (visual novels), games like monster monopiece and criminal girls are still rather creepy to me, and I won't go near them.

I agree, and I think that instead of banning theads like this, mods should instead ban the people who into threads for the game and then proceed to just derail the game. I'll often see a small start where people talk about the actual game, but that's quickly derailed by people coming who's sole purpose is focusing on the fanservice parts of the game.

You know what I mean? Like, if those people didn't derail the thread, maybe people could get some actual discussion going, rather than focusing all attention on what's right/wrong.

At least, that's what I've seen.

All or nothing man. If you accept some things you have to accept everything or else you're a hypocrite man

Exactly, I still don't know what the game is about, but short of it having something legitimately illegal, I don't think there's an issues. I don't like censorship, I'm against it, and as you said that means not picking out things that personally offend me. Otherwise I just feel like a hypocrite.

 

[Yuuichi]

Literally the most unfunny post I have ever read



Edit: I am by no means defending the game and its content. I have no idea what the game is about besides "underage sexualization". The game sounds completely disgusting (maybe I should look into it more before I voice my opinion and piss people off?) and I understand the controversy behind it, but to ban all discussion on a game sounds a little extreme. Once again, just voicing my opinion.

The thing with the ban on discussion stems from the fact people weren't really discussing the game (which, as I understand, would have been at least acceptable), but more the controversy itself, which tends quickly spiral out of hand.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Having read through the thread, the only problem I have is the expression of willingness to remain ignorant about a game called into question.This game in particular has no merit (yes, I tried the PSP version years ago), but some people seem perfectly fine with passing out rumors and outright lies as information.

Having that backed up by an unofficial moderation policy may not help.

 

[InfiniteNine]

As a result of a few different industry trends, we're seeing an increasing number of games being released and localized that focus their appeal around sexualized interaction with young children, or characters who appear to be young children. A few years ago this type of content typically wouldn't be allowed by Western platform-holders at all; today it's getting published with light censorship.

Threads about these games get creepy very, very quickly. They tend to bring out discussion which is, in and of itself, bannable due to inappropriate or offensive sexual content. They frequently involve content that cannot actually be discussed or posted without breaking our NSFW rules. And even if neither of these happens, they often degenerate into angry discussions about censorship, pedophilia, or child pornography. Frankly, we don't like moderating these threads, and we don't think they reflect well on the community.

We're not trying for philosophical rigor here. Maybe lots of people enjoy GTA in ways that can defensibly be understood as being just as creepy as something like Criminal Girls. But that doesn't dominate threads about GTA, those threads don't turn into arguments about murder-philia, and they don't trigger the same kind of fundamental revulsion. So we're not saying these games can't exist or even that people can't enjoy them. We just don't want them /here/.

We're not going to draw an absolute sharp boundary on this. We just want to make it clear going forward that games which focus on the sexualization of children are not appropriate for our community. Criminal Girls is out. Games that include creepy elements as one small part are okay -- Fire Emblem isn't inappropriate to discuss even though we don't want long thread derails about its more unpleasant fanservice elements.

Let me start by stating that everyone has their own individual set of values, and we do understand that. Our goal with the policy going forward is not necessarily to single out any group of fans as outright reprehensible people for liking video games, particularly not games that are released legally and rated by the ESRB. Further, there are valid arguments to consider in terms of why other morally dubious content seemingly gets a pass.

Having said that, though, I want to also state that the consensus on the moderation team here is that -- fair or not -- we really have next to no desire to have games that feature sexual content starring characters that either are or appear to be underrage given a platform here. We have even less desire (i.e. none) to actually have to read and moderate these threads. As such, these threads will often go unmoderated.

This is a problem. It's a problem for everyone. It's a problem for fans of the game that actually want to talk about the game and aren't necessarily there just to oogle questionable artwork. It's a problem when imagery gets posted that goes beyond what we consider in good taste and we aren't there to react. It's a problem for us in that we get complaints from people on either side of the issue and feel a sense of responsibility to react, but don't really know what to do. Do we go in to promote civility in the conversation, or do we go in to crack down on what we deem to be inappropriate sexual content that features characters that appear to be minors? I think by and large, several (perhaps most) just opt out of doing anything because we simply want no part of the conversation. Frankly, the less I personally know about Monster Monpiece or Criminal Girls, the better.

But that's not appropriate as an official policy. It's confusing for you, and it's even confusing for us. So the consensus we've reached in regards to these games that prominently feature underage girl fan-service is to simply not give them a platform here. That's not to say that we all out and out condemn the very existence of these products and the fans that would play and want to talk about them. But we just honestly feel that there is no place for it here.

As always, if you have questions about a particular game, or a facet of the conversation that you are unclear of, you are more than welcome to PM moderation with your comments and concerns.

As an addendum to the above posts from other mods, please note that GAF standards continue to apply as far as thread-whining, backseat modding, etc. As always, if someone makes a thread you believe should be locked (or a post you believe merits a ban), PM a mod rather than posting about it in the thread, or you are liable to be banned yourself.

As far as thread creation, if you're not sure if a thread you are considering making is appropriate for GAF, please feel free to PM a mod and ask.

Well some good answers right here. I was mostly worried about my VN threads when responding to this thread since there is some nice games with some sex and such sprinkled in and I wanted to know where discussion/threads for those stood. I would prefer if someone would moderate the threads so they don't veer off course but like you said no one wants to.

 

[terrisus]

This whole philosophical discussion really only leads to accusations of hypocrisy.

I've always found hypocrisy to be fairly close to ad hominem in terms of side-stepping the debate. It's not really addressing the argument.

You know what's ad hominem and hypocritical?
Discrediting a discussion by accusing the poster of using it as just a way of accusing others of hypocrisy, ad hominem, and "side-stepping the debate."

 

[Netherscourge]

I just Googled the game in question, and removed the censoring filter.

Uh, yea... I can see this being an issue.

I personally don't care though.

 

[El Sloth]

You know, I was really hesitant about making this thread since I knew people would forever associate me with this Criminal Girls shit. I don't regret making it though since it seems like something that needed to be talked about judging from the glut of responses.

discussions for a game so thematically controversy would be a nightmare to moderate, so I would surmise it's best to avoid the issue altogether, although this kind of preemptive censorship always leaves me a bit conflicted, because it creates a most uncomfortable precedent

Yeah, this is reasonable. I can understand why the moderation team would take this course. However, in that case I would just wish they gave a more detailed explanation about their reasons why threads of the game were no longer being allowed.

I mean, I would still be against their move on principle, but then I probably would never have been motivated to make this thread.

It's essentialy a porn game and these are the characters:
http://www.gameblog.fr/images/jeux/8710/CriminalGirls_PSP_Visuel_001.jpg[/IMG

I mean, c'mon.[/QUOTE]
I don't think it's exactly fair to call it a porn game, but yeah I see what you are saying. It's exactly why I don't give a crap about the game. But other people seem to. And I don't think it's right that what you or I feel about the game should effect their ability to talk about it.

[quote="GalacticaN7, post: 120119686"]Geez people, calm down.

If they don't want their site associated with a certain kind of game, that is fully their right and prerogative. There are no bad precedents being set. Moderation has more to do with things falling in a gray area and making the best decision at the time while trying to be consistent. For the most part, I think things are handled very well around these parts and Neogaf seems to allow far more discussion on further spectrums than other gaming forums in my experience, while still remaining relatively clean.

In other words, the genre that "Criminal Girls" falls under, I have no objections that Neogaf reserves the right to not allow discussion. It seems like borderline game porn.[/QUOTE]
Hmm, I see what you're saying. Like I've mentioned before, I agree that the moderation style is big part of the appeal of this forum. It played a major role in my decision to make an account here. And I can understand the perspective of the owner of a private forum not wanting certain sort of discussions happening on his forum. It's just that another part of what attracted me to GAF was that despite being a dictatorship there was still this sort illusion of being able to talk about whatever whenever. As long as it was on the appropriate section of the forum! Obviously that was never the case, but, eh, I don't know. There's just something about the way this was done that rubs me the wrong way, you know?

[quote="Krejlooc, post: 120116965"]I would expect a discussion of an actual, adult, real-deal porno game would get similarly locked. The TOS mentions that sexually explicit stuff is frowned upon a few times.

I think the assumption is any discussion about those kinds of games will focus more on the sexually explicit nature of the games than any discussion of, like, gameplay and gameplay-related stuff.

EDIT: Plus a cursory glance of the subject of that topic made my stomach turn, and it seemed like the people "in favor" of the game were antagonistic about how it was their right to play it. Seemed more like those who wanted to discuss the "game" were doing so out of principle more than a desire to actually discuss the game. Plus it's about molesting children. Fucking gross.[/QUOTE]
I missed this, sorry. Yeah, I hadn't considered the TOS, thanks for pointing that out. I guess the question from here on out becomes then: is it really a porn game? What [I]is[/I] the actual content of the game? And is it really all that much worse than all the other shit that I see threads get made for like fanservice heavy VNs, most Japan's output for the Vita, that one game I remember getting talked about the Xbox a few years (I think it was called Gal Gun?), etc. What about the fucking Senran Kagura games?

I'll be honest, I don't actually want to look up how the game plays. So, uh, someone else please answer this.

 

[Drinky Crow]

Ya'll are hilarious. I was not a good mod because I argued with everyone and couldn't keep my opinions to myself, and frequently derailed topics. But my actual -moderation- was fine. You guys don't know what goes on behind the scenes, I was extremely resolute in following most of the rules of moderation - cataloging bans, banning only for specific infractions of TOS, not banning people part of arguments with me unless they flung insults. I feel like I have to defend myself because you guys only see one side of the picture, and don't actually know who is handing down bans or locking threads when people get it.

I was not abusing my actual moderation powers until I edited my post. My problem as a mod came from my big mouth. It's hilarious that you even think I'm the poster child for this - we had a mod who literally let her boyfriend secretly use and ban people from the account, ban anyone in discussions about feminism. I'm not even the fourth most abusive mod we've ever had.

for the record, i was far and away the most abusive mod (admin) neogaf ever had.

i'd edit your posts because you wrote too much nonsense.

i'd edit your posts because i felt you were too far up your own ass.

i'd ban you because you were a furry or lolicon.

i'd ban you if i thought the place became funnier by banning you, either through the response to your ban or because your absence generally improved the joint.

i'd delete your thread if it was about sports -- because i could.

i'd do it all again a decade later. if i caught even the MEREST HINT OF ANIMU PEDERASTY, i'd lock the thread, trash the responses, and ban everyone within three degrees of separation from the op.

SO THANK YOU BASED EVILORE for your current mods and admins, eh?

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I agree, and I think that instead of banning theads like this, mods should instead ban the people who into threads for the game and then proceed to just derail the game. I'll often see a small start where people talk about the actual game, but that's quickly derailed by people coming who's sole purpose is focusing on the fanservice parts of the game.

I feel like we've tried to explain our stance on this. I don't really know how to clarify this further.

 

[ReBurn]

All or nothing man. If you accept some things you have to accept everything or else you're a hypocrite man

I can tell you this much. If I were interested in it I sure as heck wouldn't tell anybody. This is how people end up on lists.

 

[Esch]

Why not?

We should have a set of guidelines as to what kinds of games are not okay to discuss on NeoGAF. Clearly not Criminal Girl or anything like it. But topics like these wondering "why?" wouldn't creep up if we stated "if it's got x, y, or z, it's no good here."

And by stated I mean put in the TOS.

simple rules:

no pedophile shit

 

[katkombat]

The thing with the ban on discussion stems from the fact people weren't really discussing the game (which, as I understand, would have been at least acceptable), but more the controversy itself, which tends quickly spiral out of hand.

Makes perfect sense, especially after reading most of this thread. I clicked on the localization thread the day it was posted and didn't really think much about it (hey, more vita content) being controversial or anything until this thread popped up.

 

[Neiteio]

Seriously. It's like this is a catch all for who on GAF has no issue with the sexualization of children. I'm sure someone is making a list.

I don't like the sexualization of children. Heck, I don't like the sexualization of adult characters either (I.E. the objectification of women). When I said I appreciated the posts by Steve and Charlie, I was referring to how they were nuanced in addressing how they interpret similar elements in different games and how the context determines how each is received (I.E. what tends to dominate the dialogue in threads about GTAV vs. Criminal Girls, etc). That's what some were asking about, and I think Steve and Charlie understood those questions correctly and answered them well.

 

[Suzushiiro]

I don't like censorship, but the mods can do whatever they want. I believe that's in GAF's rules, basically, like it or leave, so if this is the stance the site has taken, I'm perfectly fine with it since being a member means accepting the TOS.

And honestly, is it really that bad that it's disallowed? Every single thread always devolves into the same argument, I still don't have any idea what the game's even about, and I don't think I want to google it.

Threads on any Japanese game that so much as dips its toes in the shallow end of the creep pool, let alone something like Criminal Girls that dives straight into the deep end, tend to quickly degrade into people with anime/asian girl/otherwise "weeaboo" avatars arguing with people who think that the game should be banned and shame anyone who likes it for any reason as a pedophile, so in that respect I can understand mods wanting to just ban discussion of the ones that are centered enough on said "creepy" content that there's a 100% chance of a thread turning into shitposting.

As someone who's not into loli but has hung around 4chan long enough to not be fazed by it either, I'm okay with the ban as long as it doesn't extend to games like the Arland trilogy where the "creepy" content makes up less than 1% of the game, and it seems like it doesn't.

 

[Dragonborn]

I feel like we've tried to explain our stance in this. I don't really know how to clarify this further.

Don't get me wrong, if this is the mod staff's stance, I'm fine with it (as I said before). Just throwing out my opinion. I understand you guys' side of the argument.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

You are telling me it is okay to generalize a whole studio from Japan as bunch of pedophiles?
Why slander and defame people like that because they create a game that he doesn't like.



So, tell me why this isn't wrong by slandering a whole group of people. He purposely wrote Japanese while there might be others working on the project.
And then even later admitting he would rather call them pedophiles and defame their studio even if they aren't one because the studio is making money.

Might as well /spit on the devs if you ever meet them at a video game convention.

I don't know why you're getting so worked up.

It's a Japanese game made by a niche Japanese company. I assume it's mainly being worked on by Japanese men.

And yes, if a company is basically making creepy borderline child porn, I'd say they're morally reprehensible even if they're not actually pedophiles themselves.

 

[Settin]

simple rules:

no pedophile shit

Difficult rule: define pedophile shit.

 

[terrisus]

for the record, i was far and away the most abusive mod (admin) neogaf ever had.

i'd edit your posts because you wrote too much nonsense.

i'd edit your posts because i felt you were too far up your own ass.

i'd ban you because you were a furry or lolicon.

i'd ban you if i thought the place became funnier by banning you, either through the response to your ban or because your absence generally improved the joint.

i'd delete your thread if it was about sports -- because i could.

i'd do it all again a decade later.

SO THANK YOU BASED EVILORE.

Well, yeah.
But now you're banned.

Spoiler

<3 Drinky

 

[AniHawk]

What was Imageepoch's latest work?
Oh right, a 20 year old eroge port

yoshi's new island?

 

[cpp_is_king]

If you're getting off on the fetishization of young children experiencing corporal punishment in a sexual manner? If the shoe fits.

If it's actually this cut and dry, as everyone seems to be making it out to be, why isn't it that cut and dry for, you know, any government anywhere? I'm pretty sure the thing you're describing is straight up illegal everywhere.

 

[The Technomancer]

I was actually being sarcastic with the hypocrisy comment. You can absolutely accept some things and not others if you have reasoning behind where you draw the lines. Like how the majority of people don't accept the sexualization of children.

 

[funkystudent]

I have a question. Did those kinds of overly sexualised and creepy games always exist in Japan? I know last gen they lived on the 360 in Japan but I dont remember a lot of creepy bullshit during PS2 or PS1 eras. Not talking about stuff like DOA. I mean this kind of game with female characters of questionable age.

I swear we see alot more creepy stuff now then before.

 

[curlyfriski]

IMO, people can do whatever they want to do in their games. ANYTHING.

Just don't freaking do that kind of filth with children, it's not appropriate as it should never be.

I don't understand why you keep comparing children porn to other kind of controversial stuff involving adults. We're not in the same category.

It's just not the same thing, you don't freaking show/touch children. I think that's a pretty basic golden rule or blueprint for video games and for any freaking kind of entertainment on this planet.

I don't necessarily disagree, but saying it's different because of course it's different is a pretty unconvincing argument.

 

[Kyou]

Difficult rule: define pedophile shit.

what's wrong with a sniff test?

 

[Sakura]

Real games? Ore Shika 2, Freedom Wars, Soul Sacrifice Delta, Tales of Hearts R, or JP games like Ao no Kiseki Evolution, SRWZ3, The new Danganronpa that's coming?

It's no less a "real game" than SRWZ3. Or does having fanservice bits suddenly make it not a real game? Don't get me wrong I have no personal interest in this game, but it has plenty there gameplay wise for people that like these kind of RPGs.

 

[unbias]

Are people really upset that threads about a softcore kiddie porn game aren't allowed?

No, the topic is about if this is about specifically this type of game or a policy of governing games. Fear of a lack of policy is pretty much the gist of it. I think most(I hope) are fine with not pandering games that fetishize the bodies of perceptional underage kids; they would just like policy to follow with it in fear of precedent. The issue, I think, is obviously clear no underage fetish games, but people like "rules" when it comes to knowing what will be off limits and what isnt, since pedophilia isn't the only offensive thing out there.

 

[Devolution]

Difficult rule: define pedophile shit.

This game.

 

[ActuallyHulk]

I have a question. Did those kinds of overly sexualised and creepy games always exist in Japan? I know last gen they lived on the 360 in Japan but I dont remember a lot of creepy bullshit during PS2 or PS1 eras. Not talking about stuff like DOA. I mean this kind of game with female characters of questionable age.

I swear we see alot more creepy stuff now then before.

Back in the day it was more a few suggestive tones, maybe some somewhat revealing clothing and that was that the vast majority of the time. I won't say it didn't exist anywhere at all. It's really been cranked up to 20. The west has cranked up the violence and the east has cranked up the sex.

 

[Tohsaka]

I have a question. Did those kinds of overly sexualised and creepy games always exist in Japan? I know last gen they lived on the 360 in Japan but I dont remember a lot of creepy bullshit during PS2 or PS1 eras. Not talking about stuff like DOA. I mean this kind of game with female characters of questionable age.

I swear we see alot more creepy stuff now then before.

There have always been games with fanservice. Back in the PSX/Saturn days there were visual novels with nudity allowed on consoles. There's not "more" of it now, you're just seeing it that way because these kinds of games didn't really get localized much in the past.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

You know what's ad hominem and hypocritical?
Discrediting a discussion by accusing the poster of using it as just a way of accusing others of hypocrisy, ad hominem, and "side-stepping the debate."

Disputing the way you frame the debate in no way attacks you, which would be ad hominem, merely the tactic used to debate.

Pointing out a potential fallacy is not hypocritical in any way.

 

[Settin]

what's wrong with a sniff test?

GAF is an international forum. Whose age of consent are we going to use to define this limit?

 

[Nanashrew]

I remember a good couple of years ago an anime studio tried to localize a lolicon anime with lots of terrible scenes and the studio came under fire with a lot of controversy surrounding them.

I wonder how long it will take for game studios to really start feeling the heat for these kinds of localizations. There is a wide cultural gap between us and Japan and most of Asia in general. Some things just do not work. It has been weird to see these kinds of games actually get localized now when back in 2007 it would put enough heat on a company to keep them from localizing it at all.

 

[bishoptl]

Also, in regards to other games, ones that features adult characters, but still contain sexually themed content, part of the reason I would like to be able to (appropriately) discuss them on GAF is because of the moderation.

One thing I love about GAF is that minority/underrepresented gamers are free to be ourselves here. You can talk about thinking a male video game character is hot without being called a homophobic slur, wanting more female representation without being called a "feminazi", wanting more racial equality in games without being labled a "social justice warrior", etc. If anyone pulls that crap, they get the boot, and I want it to stay that way.

It's easy for people to say to go to another forum, but most other forums that would allow discussion of an adult game have little to no moderation, and you are constantly subjected to ridicule for not falling in line with the "core" demographic. I come to GAF to have fun while taking about games and other stuff, not to tiptoe around who I am, and what my tastes are.

If people are able to properly and maturely discuss a game with adult content (featuring adult character), while not breaking any rules, I see no reason why it shouldn't be allowed. I just wish we could get some clarification on this.

Hey, I didn't want this post to get lost in the shuffle.

I agree with you. Discussion of games with adult content that feature actual adults (not that "they're 1000 year old demons in a kid's body, so it's alright lol" nonsense) is a good thing. A refreshing thing. You should read Cara Ellison's ongoing SEXE series on Rock Paper Shotgun - a dozen different articles detailing how the approach to sexual content in gaming varies, from OutRun to Vampire Bloodlines. Independent game experiences are also placed front and center. Highly recommended.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

I have a question. Did those kinds of overly sexualised and creepy games always exist in Japan? I know last gen they lived on the 360 in Japan but I dont remember a lot of creepy bullshit during PS2 or PS1 eras. Not talking about stuff like DOA. I mean this kind of game with female characters of questionable age.

I swear we see alot more creepy stuff now then before.

They existed on PC forever.

 

[cpp_is_king]

GAF is an international forum. Whose age of consent are we going to use to define this limit?

It's an international forum, and yet as far as I know this game isn't actually banned anywhere. So by all of these international standards, the game is fit for public consumption.

 

[alstein]

Every thread on this subject inevitably turns into demanding some sort of clear line of what's okay and what's not. I think it's pretty clear there's always been a gray area, and where that gray area and "not okay" stuff will just have to fall to the mods to decide.

We're all rational adults capable of deciding what we personally find moral or acceptable, but in the end we're hanging out at another dude's house.

The reason things always turn into the "clear line" argument probably has a lot to do with the philosophical bent of many of the posters. Many of us are very leary about censorship of any kind, even when its squick material like Criminal Girls.

People just resent being told no in general when they think the answer should be yes.

 

[AniHawk]

I have a question. Did those kinds of overly sexualised and creepy games always exist in Japan? I know last gen they lived on the 360 in Japan but I dont remember a lot of creepy bullshit during PS2 or PS1 eras. Not talking about stuff like DOA. I mean this kind of game with female characters of questionable age.

I swear we see alot more creepy stuff now then before.

i really have no idea about the content of the games, but a lot of porn-ish games made their way to the dreamcast after it was discontinued alongside the occasional shmup. i think it was because gd-roms were cheap and there wasn't really any regulation. i don't know about the ps2.

but it does seem like something that was always beneath the surface or pushed into a corner has become a lot more prevalent over the last decade or so. i mean i've never really paid much attention to anime in general, but it seems there's a lot more of this stuff going on these days than the early part of the 2000s or late 90s.