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[Copenap]

Awesome month for PS4.

 

[meanspartan]

Have you played Knack?

Nope, but it is probably terrible given the reviews, hence why I'd prefer something better. Though it does seem to have a solid minority on here who defend it, so I am interested to see if their appreciation of the game has any merit.

With indies, sometimes I'll play them for an hour or so and even enjoy them. But 90% of the time, I never have any urge to play them again beyond that. I've enjoyed Outlast, Resogun, and Pix the Cat on Ps4 Plus. The rest I couldn't care less.

So ya, keep the indies on Plus, that's fine. From time to time maybe I'll even like one. But gimme some AAA too!

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I'm with those who are considering not renewing PS+. I just don't care for the games being offered. I knew that it would be a while before we saw AAA games being offered on PS4, but I expected something by now. My subscription ends May 2015. We will see if my interest increases by then.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

You mention go back to "two years ago", but really just a few months back we were getting some damn good titles. Hell we got BL2, Bioshock infinite, DMC, etc. It could be a coincidence, it could be more, but honest to god the quality has plummeted in terms of size of the games since the plus sub became mandatory for online.

You say this yet I couldn't stand Bioshock Infinite, BL2 or DMC. Give me Velocity 2X, Pix the Cat and BOI over those games any day of the week. You say the quality has plummeted. I say vastly improved.

 

[Slashlen]

You say this yet I couldn't stand Bioshock Infinite, BL2 or DMC. Give me Velocity 2X, Pix the Cat and BOI over those games any day of the week. You say the quality has plummeted. I say vastly improved.

Variety is good, in scale as well as genre. Plus getting rid of AAA games weakens the service.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

You say this yet I couldn't stand Bioshock Infinite, BL2 or DMC. Give me Velocity 2X, Pix the Cat and BOI over those games any day of the week. You say the quality has plummeted. I say vastly improved.

My issue with is that I bought into ps+ being lead to believe that we would get AAA titles. There was precedence on PS3. I accepted that it would be a while before we got AAA titles, but its been a year and I feel that there is no reason a launch game or something hasnt shown up by now. Indie games work better on my iPad and my laptop where I can play them in bed for very short spurts.

I'm also getting tired of seeing people get crucified because they aren't into indie games eventhough they may be considered "great" games. That doesn't mean they do anything for me.

 

[kinoki]

Variety is good, in scale as well as genre. Plus getting rid of AAA games weakens the service.

Perhaps weakens it for you. This isn't universally true. I like it. I've gotten too many games to begin with. I feel that they've over-delivered. I feel that this focus on indies is really paying off, both for Microsoft (with GwG) and Sony. It's also good for our indie devs, which I support. It's a win for platform holders, consumers and developers. It's only AAA publishers that loses out. And justly so.

 

[leng jai]

My issue with is that I bought into ps+ being lead to believe that we would get AAA titles. There was precedence on PS3. I accepted that it would be a while before we got AAA titles, but its been a year and I feel that there is no reason a launch game or something hasnt shown up by now. Indie games work better on my iPad and my laptop where I can play them in bed for very short spurts.

I'm also getting tired of seeing people get crucified because they aren't into indie games eventhough they may be considered "great" games. That doesn't mean they do anything for me.

PSN Plus has been pretty shitty for me the last few months also but to expect "AAA" titles after a year is pretty ridiculous. That's just setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

[Nosgoroth]

Aaaaand I already have everything except the zombie game and BOI Rebirth, which I was waiting for.

Perhaps FS Prime has a better interface than the original PC release, though. I'll give it a look.

 

[redcrayon]

Awesome US selection this month. Any word on when the EU selection will be confirmed?

Also, which of those games run on Vita, are Binding of Isaac and Frozen Synapse crossplay or not?

It's going to the point where all the good indie games end up on PS+ pretty quickly. It does mean I try to avoid buying them at launch, but hey, I'm alright with that.

 

[family_guy]

I will say they are setting the precedent to where people will just stop buying indie games and wait for them to show up on PS+. Kind of like "wait for the next Steam sale" mentality. That's not good for independent developers.

 

[vato_loco]

I don't even know most of these games, but Binding of Isaac is pretty much enough to justify the entire month. That game is addictive as hell, I can't reccomend it enough to people who haven't played it.

 

[redcrayon]

I will say they are setting the precedent to where people will just stop buying indie games and wait for them to show up on PS+. Kind of like "wait for the next Steam sale" mentality. That's not good for independent developers.

Exactly. If you hadn't bought anything, and depending on which devices you own, you would still have ended up with Velocity, Spelunky, Guacamelee, TxK, Binding of Isaac, Don't Starve, Pics the Cat, Frozen Synapse, Hotline Miami, Fez and more. Obviously that's not everything worth playing by a long shot, but it's a decent portion of the indie games available on PSN and commonly recommended on here.

 

[leng jai]

Exactly. If you hadn't bought anything, and depending on which devices you own, you would still have ended up with Velocity, Spelunky, Guacamelee, TxK, Binding of Isaac, Don't Starve, Pics the Cat, Frozen Synapse, Hotline Miami, Fez and more. Obviously that's not everything worth playing by a long shot, but it's a decent portion of the indie games available on PSN and commonly recommended on here.

Yeah, if you're patient you basically get 90% of the better indie games eventually, so even at launch.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

PSN Plus has been pretty shitty for me the last few months also but to expect "AAA" titles after a year is pretty ridiculous. That's just setting yourself up for disappointment.

A year is not ridiculous at all. There are now a ton of AAA titles that ps plus could offer. Bioshock Infinite, Metro Last Light and Tomb Raider all showed up within that time frame give or take a month or two.

 

[vin-buc]

A year is not ridiculous at all. There are now a ton of AAA titles that ps plus could offer. Bioshock Infinite, Metro Last Light and Tomb Raider all showed up within that time frame give or take a month or two.

Maybe things change when you're winning ;

To be fair though there may be several factors in place like EA having their own subscription service and other publishers watching them with plans to copy. Because of that they may not want to put games on plus but hold on to their catalogs.

This is something i was nervous about when EA started EA Access.

 

[mclem]

I honestly thought Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition or Thief would have made it by now.

Since they gave the PS3 Tomb Raider a little while ago, I suspect they'd be reluctant to offer the Definitive Edition because there may be a bit of a backlash for that.

 

[mclem]

While I was creating the entire ps4 plus list above - going thru each month and seeing what the ps3 had was ridiculous. It would be "for the gamers" if they put up KZ: SF, Knack, TR: DE, IF: SS, MGS: GZ.

One of these at least. It would really be big and meaningful as these were full priced games.

Actually, Ground Zeroes would make a *lot* of sense when Konami want to ramp up promotion for MGSV. So I wouldn't expect it for a while, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it on Plus eventually.

 

[The Illiterati]

I have been waiting SO long for BOI. I couldn't stand the way pad support worked on the PC version. By the time I decided to give in and play it, they announced this game, so I waited. I am so excited!

 

[Dr_LucienSanchez]

People need to seriously take it easy. People come into a game forum to express their opinions on games.not everyone has the same opinion and tastes - is that hard to accept?

And yes obnoxious posts are obnoxious when they belittle peoples views when they go against their own.

"We know we're getting 2 great games this month." Really? Who is "we"? Because there are ALOT of unhappy people here. It seems like " we" is the "we" in your reality - not everyone else's.

Lastly, LoL - "impressively obtuse" what is that? You sound like someone trying to hard to use vocabulary. Im sure you're smart.....ok?

Sure, people share opinions here. But luckily the numerous shitty opinions (generally the outright dismissal of games because they're indie) on display in this thread can be criticized for what they are - immature buffoons whining about real games.

And I'm pretty sure that obtuse isn't that uncommon a word. I probably should have stuck with the more direct approach though, that being that you're apparently so dense that light bends around you.

 

[Mugatu]

As a PS4 owner I an very underwhelmed.

 

[Michanical]

Its all button presses so its who does it the best. I have such a backlog that I'll never get to so I'll download BoI but never play it. Its about choices and there are plenty.

If that's what you like its good you get it for free. If its not what you like then you'll complain.

Its really not difficult to understand. "Real Gamers" may have too much free time on their hands. Maybe that's it.

P.S. - I'd rather try knack. My kids enjoyed watching the trailers.

You ignored my point completely. It’s about what’s reasonable to expect. If you feel that PS+ isn’t worth your time because they aren’t giving you Uncharted, that says more about you than it does about the service you’ve purchased, and much like the people who complain when they don’t get what they like, you are going to get people who do get what they like and have just as much incentive to voice their satisfaction. Like I said in a previous post, we seem to want to sprint towards mediocre AAA, which is what Knack and Killzone are, instead of embracing top tier indie games, like BoI, Dust, and Spelunky. We aren’t going to get Uncharted as part of IGC, so when people start beating the drum of “AAA PLZ,” they are asking for bad games on principle, not top tier AAA, because Sony will not give Uncharted at this point in the PS4 lifecycle. If you don’t feel like playing the games available because you have too much of a back catalogue, then IGC is a bad investment for you. If it takes something like Uncharted to get you to drop your backlog, then it’s time to temper your expectations or drop the service.

Also, all this sarcastic talk about “real gamers” doesn’t add to the conversation and doesn’t address the problem. If, to you, the notion that a game should be judged on the merits of its gameplay and not disregarded because “it doesn’t look good,” is somehow taking games too seriously and is a worth mocking, then I don’t know where I stand with gamers anymore. It strikes me as extremely superficial and closed minded and the opposite of the kind of enthusiasm towards gaming I grew up with. Your comment on knack is exactly what I’m talking about: Knack looks nice, but was universally panned for being boring and having shitty gameplay, but, again, it looked nice so it is more worth your time. You won’t find a thread where BoI is mentioned and someone doesn’t come in to say how they’ve spent 50/100/150/400 hours in the original because the gameplay is that engaging.

The original and expansion did something interesting to the game community when it came out that very few games do well: the amount of discovery and “myth” about how the game worked creates something very exciting as people tried to figure the game out. It went a year or so where the wikis were still wrong about how the items worked because the game is a black box in a lot of ways, and it wasn’t until someone cracked the game open and looked at the equations that a lot of debates were settled. With the remake done, and a lot of stuff changed from the original as well as a crazy amount of new content, we’re back at square one with the black box and now the number of people that get to experience this collective discovery is greatly expanded and they get this day one of release, with the rest of the community.

But, no, “Knack plz.”

 

[Dr_LucienSanchez]

You ignored my point completely. It’s about what’s reasonable to expect. If you feel that PS+ isn’t worth your time because they aren’t giving you Uncharted, that says more about you than it does about the service you’ve purchased, and much like the people who complain when they don’t get what they like, you are going to get people who do get what they like and have just as much incentive to voice their satisfaction. Like I said in a previous post, we seem to want to sprint towards mediocre AAA, which is what Knack and Killzone are, instead of embracing top tier indie games, like BoI, Dust, and Spelunky. We aren’t going to get Uncharted as part of IGC, so when people start beating the drum of “AAA PLZ,” they are asking for bad games on principle, not top tier AAA, because Sony will not give Uncharted at this point in the PS4 lifecycle. If you don’t feel like playing the games available because you have too much of a back catalogue, then IGC is a bad investment for you. If it takes something like Uncharted to get you to drop your backlog, then it’s time to temper your expectations or drop the service.

Also, all this sarcastic talk about “real gamers” doesn’t add to the conversation and doesn’t address the problem. If, to you, the notion that a game should be judged on the merits of its gameplay and not disregarded because “it doesn’t look good,” is somehow taking games too seriously and is a worth mocking, then I don’t know where I stand with gamers anymore. It strikes me as extremely superficial and closed minded and the opposite of the kind of enthusiasm towards gaming I grew up with. Your comment on knack is exactly what I’m talking about: Knack looks nice, but was universally panned for being boring and having shitty gameplay, but, again, it looked nice so it is more worth your time. You won’t find a thread where BoI is mentioned and someone doesn’t come in to say how they’ve spent 50/100/150/400 hours in the original because the gameplay is that engaging.

The original and expansion did something interesting to the game community when it came out that very few games do well: the amount of discovery and “myth” about how the game worked creates something very exciting as people tried to figure the game out. It went a year or so where the wikis were still wrong about how the items worked because the game is a black box in a lot of ways, and it wasn’t until someone cracked the game open and looked at the equations that a lot of debates were settled. With the remake done, and a lot of stuff changed from the original as well as a crazy amount of new content, we’re back at square one with the black box and now the number of people that get to experience this collective discovery is greatly expanded and they get this day one of release, with the rest of the community.

But, no, “Knack plz.”

Thank you for writing this and having so much more patience than I do at this point. It's a shame that it'll most likely fall on deaf ears, but oh well.

 

[ocean]

I would really rather them give me a single PS4 game a month but make it a higher-profile title. I am sure launch retail titles must be selling like shit right now. Killzone, Black Flag, Ghosts etc would all go a long way to making people feel they're getting good value for the service they're paying for.

Failing that, indies with higher production values like Child of Light (I know it's Ubi but it's a US$15 game) or Transistor would be a better fit for what people were used to from the IGC program on PS3. That's just me though. Totally respect people who dig the kind of indies they've been offering, they're just generally not my thing with a few exceptions.

 

[Flandy]

Weird that the NA Blog hasn't made a blog post yet. They would have usually have it up by now. Wonder what's going on.

 

[meanspartan]

You ignored my point completely. It’s about what’s reasonable to expect. If you feel that PS+ isn’t worth your time because they aren’t giving you Uncharted, that says more about you than it does about the service you’ve purchased, and much like the people who complain when they don’t get what they like, you are going to get people who do get what they like and have just as much incentive to voice their satisfaction. Like I said in a previous post, we seem to want to sprint towards mediocre AAA, which is what Knack and Killzone are, instead of embracing top tier indie games, like BoI, Dust, and Spelunky. We aren’t going to get Uncharted as part of IGC, so when people start beating the drum of “AAA PLZ,” they are asking for bad games on principle, not top tier AAA, because Sony will not give Uncharted at this point in the PS4 lifecycle. If you don’t feel like playing the games available because you have too much of a back catalogue, then IGC is a bad investment for you. If it takes something like Uncharted to get you to drop your backlog, then it’s time to temper your expectations or drop the service.

Also, all this sarcastic talk about “real gamers” doesn’t add to the conversation and doesn’t address the problem. If, to you, the notion that a game should be judged on the merits of its gameplay and not disregarded because “it doesn’t look good,” is somehow taking games too seriously and is a worth mocking, then I don’t know where I stand with gamers anymore. It strikes me as extremely superficial and closed minded and the opposite of the kind of enthusiasm towards gaming I grew up with. Your comment on knack is exactly what I’m talking about: Knack looks nice, but was universally panned for being boring and having shitty gameplay, but, again, it looked nice so it is more worth your time. You won’t find a thread where BoI is mentioned and someone doesn’t come in to say how they’ve spent 50/100/150/400 hours in the original because the gameplay is that engaging.

The original and expansion did something interesting to the game community when it came out that very few games do well: the amount of discovery and “myth” about how the game worked creates something very exciting as people tried to figure the game out. It went a year or so where the wikis were still wrong about how the items worked because the game is a black box in a lot of ways, and it wasn’t until someone cracked the game open and looked at the equations that a lot of debates were settled. With the remake done, and a lot of stuff changed from the original as well as a crazy amount of new content, we’re back at square one with the black box and now the number of people that get to experience this collective discovery is greatly expanded and they get this day one of release, with the rest of the community.

But, no, “Knack plz.”

Yes absolutely "Knack plz" (though something better would be more welcome) and I'll tell you why. Right now, Sony is clearly spending a lot less on PS Plus, especially now that Ps3 seems to be getting the indie-only nerf as well. Are you ok with the fact that Sony is spending far less on Plus while you still pay the same $50 a year? Seriously? (And it's not like the money saved is going towards improving PSN as a network....)

The indies don't have to go away, but now that it's been a year there absolutely should be some AAAs too. Knack fits perfectly into Plus for me. The games I'm super interested in, I buy at or near launch. Knack got mediocre reviews so I passed on it, but there are some people who claim it is pretty good so I do want to give it a try. And I doubt I'm alone.

Nice bait and switch really. Smart. Make Ps3 Plus very awesome so no one really complained when Ps4 Plus was mandatory for multiplayer. Then, not only don't release AAA on PS4 Plus, but take them away from Ps3 as well. Oh and don't worry, because if people attack you for it the indie defense force will come out to criticize them for their "inferior" tastes and daring to say that they want a mediocre AAA over something they'll never play. I expected indies for the first several months to a year, because I don't expect them to give away their launch list obviously. But I doubt Killzone and Knack are lighting up the sales charts for them still, so they would make sense on Plus now. Soon, Infamous will follow into that category as well.

And you don't have to look far to see people aren't happy about this- look at any PS Plus for November article's comment section. I'm sure you'll disregard the "plebs" opinions, but guess what, people who want AAA on Plus are the majority, and it isn't even close. Nobody is saying indies shouldn't be on Plus, but many people pay that $50 with the understanding that there will be AAA games on the service. I'm happy for you that you think indies are enough, but they aren't for me.

 

[Neuromancer]

Right now, Sony is clearly spending a lot less on PS Plus, especially now that Ps3 seems to be getting the indie-only nerf as well. Are you ok with the fact that Sony is spending far less on Plus while you still pay the same $50 a year? Seriously? (And it's not like the money saved is going towards improving PSN as a network....)

How do you know that signing new indie games costs a lot less than almost year old retail games (especially ones that Sony themselves published)?

 

[Apathy]

Yes absolutely "Knack plz" (though something better would be more welcome) and I'll tell you why. Right now, Sony is clearly spending a lot less on PS Plus, especially now that Ps3 seems to be getting the indie-only nerf as well. Are you ok with the fact that Sony is spending far less on Plus while you still pay the same $50 a month? Seriously? (And it's not like the money saved is going towards improving PSN as a network....)

The indies don't have to go away, but now that it's been a year there absolutely should be some AAAs too. Knack fits perfectly into Plus for me. The games I'm super interested in, I buy at or near launch. Knack got mediocre reviews so I passed on it, but there are some people who claim it is pretty good so I do want to give it a try. And I doubt I'm alone.

Nice bait and switch really. Smart. Make Ps3 Plus very awesome so no one really complained when Ps4 Plus was mandatory for multiplayer. Then, not only don't release AAA on PS4 Plus, but take them away from Ps3 as well. Oh and don't worry, because if people attack you for it the indie defense force will come out to criticize them for their "inferior" tastes and daring to say that they want a mediocre AAA over something they'll never play. I expected indies for the first several months to a year, because I don't expect them to give away their launch list obviously. But I doubt Killzone and Knack are lighting up the sales charts for them still, so they would make sense on Plus now. Soon, Infamous will follow into that category as well.

And you don't have to look far to see people aren't happy about this- look at any PS Plus for November article's comment section. I'm sure you'll disregard the "plebs" opinions, but guess what, people who want AAA on Plus are the majority, and it isn't even close. Nobody is saying indies shouldn't be on Plus, but many people pay that $50 with the understanding that there will be AAA games on the service. I'm happy for you that you think indies are enough, but they aren't for me.

I don't know what plus you're paying for, but I pay anywhere between 30 and 50 per year not per month. Boils down to between $2.50 to $4.17 a month or $0.42 to $0.70 per game. So for 70 cents, they are able to give me a brand new 15 dollar indie game, I am 100% alright with that.

Bolded is opinion, not fact.

 

[meanspartan]

How do you know that signing new indie games costs a lot less than almost year old retail games (especially ones that Sony themselves published)?

Common sense really. Sony knows how many people are irritated by nothing but indies on Ps4 Plus. If it were cheaper to put a AAA on Plus over yet another indie, they would do it.

 

[meanspartan]

I don't know what plus you're paying for, but I pay anywhere between 30 and 50 per year not per month. Boils down to between $2.50 to $4.17 a month or $0.42 to $0.70 per game. So for 70 cents, they are able to give me a brand new 15 dollar indie game, I am 100% alright with that.

Bolded is opinion, not fact.

Ya, ya, my bad I meant year not month.

Bolded is fact, not opinion. It may not be the Gaf majority, but go on any mainstream website and look at the comments sections. You'll see the people who are pissed about lack of AAA get the most upvotes, and it isn't even close.

Or ask your friends. I at least play some of them (I loved Pix the Cat), but many of my more casual gamer friends groan when they see nothing but indies on the service they pay for. They don't want another 2d sidescroller, they want that game they were interested in playing last year but didn't get around to /couldn't afford.

 

[Grisby]

Vita getting so much love.

 

[Apathy]

Ya, ya, my bad I meant year not month.

Bolded is fact, not opinion. It may not be the Gaf majority, but go on any mainstream website and look at the comments sections. You'll see the people who are pissed about lack of AAA get the most upvotes, and it isn't even close.

Or ask your friends. I at least play some of them (I loved Pix the Cat), but many of my more casual gamer friends groan when they see nothing but indies on the service they pay for. They don't want another 2d sidescroller, they want that game they were interested in playing last year but didn't get around to /couldn't afford.

You realize, just because "majority" in your eyes are posting does not mean an actual majority thinks the same way. So it's not "fact". And sorry, my friends are quite happy with games offered, guess my friends cancel out what your friends think. The fact an article can have a bunch of vocal minority posting while the majority is happy does not make your claim fact.

 

[Neuromancer]

Common sense really. Sony knows how many people are irritated by nothing but indies on Ps4 Plus. If it were cheaper to put a AAA on Plus over yet another indie, they would do it.

More like a gut feeling that could easily be wrong. Sony also knows that many people enjoy good indie games and people there work hard setting up these deals.

 

[Michanical]

Yes absolutely "Knack plz" (though something better would be more welcome) and I'll tell you why. Right now, Sony is clearly spending a lot less on PS Plus, especially now that Ps3 seems to be getting the indie-only nerf as well. Are you ok with the fact that Sony is spending far less on Plus while you still pay the same $50 a month? Seriously? (And it's not like the money saved is going towards improving PSN as a network....)

The indies don't have to go away, but now that it's been a year there absolutely should be some AAAs too. Knack fits perfectly into Plus for me. The games I'm super interested in, I buy at or near launch. Knack got mediocre reviews so I passed on it, but there are some people who claim it is pretty good so I do want to give it a try. And I doubt I'm alone.

This argument for “I want mediocre games on principle” is something you’ll never convince me is worthwhile. Every time they include a garbage AAA game, that’s a spot that could be taken by a great game, regardless of AAA or indie status. On the flip side, if you are thinking, “you’ll never convince me that top tier indie games are worth playing” then we are talking about being closed minded. Saying, “I don’t want shit” isn’t the same as saying “I don’t want gold, I want shit because it costs more.” We aren’t on equal sides of opposing arguments; we are talking about arguing for quality games vs. shit on principle.

There is no reason to differentiate indie from retail other than some misplaced personal bias against indies. Good games are good games and we should be advocating for them. At this point, we aren’t getting top tier AAA because those are reserved for actual retail sales. We should only want shitty AAA games when the option is “shitty AAA game or shittier AAA/indie,” which has not been the case so far. Good AAA games aren’t on the table, but if Sony is striving to get us good games exclusively, then it’s indie only for now.

And it doesn’t matter if you are alone or not; just like I’m not alone in how I feel.

 

[meanspartan]

You realize, just because "majority" in your eyes are posting does not mean an actual majority thinks the same way. So it's not "fact". And sorry, my friends are quite happy with games offered, guess my friends cancel out what your friends think. The fact an article can have a bunch of vocal minority posting while the majority is happy does not make your claim fact.

Obviously, I don't have the capability to send a poll out to every Ps4 owner, so ya, I can't prove a majority.

But are you honestly going to sit here and argue that if I COULD send such a poll out, and I asked whether the millions of Plus members preferred Assassin's Creed 4, Infamous, or even Knack vs. Binding of Issac, Binding of Issac would win? Or even come close to winning?

Come on dude. The absence of means to prove does not disallow for safe assumptions to be made. And saying that most, yes MOST Plus members want AAA over another indie is not exactly taking a giant leap into the unknown.

So my mistake for using the word "fact" I guess, you're right I can't prove it beyond all doubt. I should have said "in all likelihood" or something of that sort.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Yes absolutely "Knack plz" (though something better would be more welcome) and I'll tell you why. Right now, Sony is clearly spending a lot less on PS Plus, especially now that Ps3 seems to be getting the indie-only nerf as well. Are you ok with the fact that Sony is spending far less on Plus while you still pay the same $50 a year? Seriously? (And it's not like the money saved is going towards improving PSN as a network....)

The indies don't have to go away, but now that it's been a year there absolutely should be some AAAs too. Knack fits perfectly into Plus for me. The games I'm super interested in, I buy at or near launch. Knack got mediocre reviews so I passed on it, but there are some people who claim it is pretty good so I do want to give it a try. And I doubt I'm alone.

Nice bait and switch really. Smart. Make Ps3 Plus very awesome so no one really complained when Ps4 Plus was mandatory for multiplayer. Then, not only don't release AAA on PS4 Plus, but take them away from Ps3 as well. Oh and don't worry, because if people attack you for it the indie defense force will come out to criticize them for their "inferior" tastes and daring to say that they want a mediocre AAA over something they'll never play. I expected indies for the first several months to a year, because I don't expect them to give away their launch list obviously. But I doubt Killzone and Knack are lighting up the sales charts for them still, so they would make sense on Plus now. Soon, Infamous will follow into that category as well.

And you don't have to look far to see people aren't happy about this- look at any PS Plus for November article's comment section. I'm sure you'll disregard the "plebs" opinions, but guess what, people who want AAA on Plus are the majority, and it isn't even close. Nobody is saying indies shouldn't be on Plus, but many people pay that $50 with the understanding that there will be AAA games on the service. I'm happy for you that you think indies are enough, but they aren't for me.

I agree with you on this post. I am so sick of the hostile attitude people are having towards those who aren't interested in indies or more specifically the indies being offered on PS Plus.

Last year we got spoiled on PS3 by having a 3 month period where we got Metro Last Light, Borderlands 2, Bioshock Infinite, and Tomb Raider. I knew it would be years before we saw something even a quarter as good as that on PS4, but I don't feel that anybody is being irrational in feeling like ONE YEAR LATER that we should have a AAA game. Assassins Creed IV would have been perfect and a LOT of people would have been happy and it would have been a perfect way to promote AC:Unity.

Sony eventually amended the PS Plus (PS3) to be one AAA game and one indie game. I was completely OK with this decision and was looking forward to it coming to PS4.

I am not going to go into why I don't care for indie games (Outlast is an exception). I can appreciate the art, but I bought a PS4 to have good graphics and kick ass sound and provide an immersive experience not to play games that look like they came out of the 8/16 bit-era. I know I will get flamed for that last statement, but it's how I feel.

I wish it wasn't and that I could love and appreciate them, but every time I have attempted to play the games offered on PS plus I just can't get into them. I very much want to see what people on this page love about them, but I just can't.

Make no mistake I want Sony to keep providing indie games, because they do have an audience. I just want it to start offering AAA titles, even if they are considered less than perfect.

 

[msdstc]

You say this yet I couldn't stand Bioshock Infinite, BL2 or DMC. Give me Velocity 2X, Pix the Cat and BOI over those games any day of the week. You say the quality has plummeted. I say vastly improved.

You jumped into the argument and didn't even bother to read it. The games they are giving are much smaller scale, point fest, type games. People want a game they can sink their teeth into, not time killers or extreme skill based type games. Knack isn't a great game by any stretch, but it has a campaign mode with a story that has production values. It has a linear story with a good length of gameplay and collectables. There is an inherent difference between indies and retails.

 

[Michanical]

Come on dude. The absence of means to prove does not disallow for safe assumptions to be made. And saying that most, yes MOST Plus members want AAA over another indie is not exactly taking a giant leap into the unknown.

So, your argument is that it would be the right decision for Sony to put Knack on PS+ because the majority of players want it. Let's assume that Sony could collect this information, if they knew the majority of players wanted a mediocre AAA title, they would please their player base and offer it.

Oh, that's right, they actually do put a survey every month asking how people liked the games and what they could change. They've been doing this since the beginning and, yet, they are still putting out quality indie titles.

I wonder what that survey showed?

Edit: now that I think about it, you are probably right that the majority of people would want Knack over an indie; it's the same reason why AAA games like Ryse sell well over incredibly well designed games like Binding of Isaac; but gamers are also extremely susceptible to marketing and think that a more expensive game is inherently more valuable. I think that if Sony wants to present people with the best games possible, they aren’t going to give AAA games this early.

 

[Staal]

Exactly. If you hadn't bought anything, and depending on which devices you own, you would still have ended up with Velocity, Spelunky, Guacamelee, TxK, Binding of Isaac, Don't Starve, Pics the Cat, Frozen Synapse, Hotline Miami, Fez and more. Obviously that's not everything worth playing by a long shot, but it's a decent portion of the indie games available on PSN and commonly recommended on here.

Just looking at that list, not only does it show the strength of indies, but also the Playstation platforms.
I understand the disappointment on the November list, but from a variety and quality of games perspective, the PS+ Library has been awesome this year.

 

[meanspartan]

More like a gut feeling that could easily be wrong. Sony also knows that many people enjoy good indie games and people there work hard setting up these deals.

I really didn't know so many people are willing to pretend it really is an open question whether the majority of Plus owners would honestly be torn between a AAA and almost any indie. Maybe if you got one of the best, most well known indies and put it against Knack it'd be close. But a decentish indie vs a decentish AAA, on the planet I live on, I think the AAA would easily win out in regards to what people want.

 

[flkraven]

Just because people want an AAA game on these services, doesn't mean they don't like indies. I appreciate the indies, but would like an AAA title or two. Sure, the indies rate higher in many cases, but it doesn't mean that is what I want exclusively nor even what I would prefer. I'm sure the general public feels the same way. There is a reason why the Transformers movies blow up in the box office while highly rated indie pictures barely make a blip. People like big, extravagent budgets, and PS+ use to offer that mixed in with the indies.

Also, let's not pretend that Sony is shelling out the same dollars when they give out indies vs AAAs, so where is the extra PS+ income going?

EDIT: BTW, I feel the same way about the GWG service, although they have continued offering AAAs for last gen system. Still think we are due for an AAA in current gen.

 

[Apathy]

Obviously, I don't have the capability to send a poll out to every Ps4 owner, so ya, I can't prove a majority.

But are you honestly going to sit here and argue that if I COULD send such a poll out, and I asked whether the millions of Plus members preferred Assassin's Creed 4, Infamous, or even Knack vs. Binding of Issac, Binding of Issac would win? Or even come close to winning?

Come on dude. The absence of means to prove does not disallow for safe assumptions to be made. And saying that most, yes MOST Plus members want AAA over another indie is not exactly taking a giant leap into the unknown.

So my mistake for using the word "fact" I guess, you're right I can't prove it beyond all doubt. I should have said "in all likelihood" or something of that sort.

You argument was people are unhappy with indies not if they had a choice what they would want to get.

 

[JakkuFurosu]

Wow this thread a rollercoaster.

For me it is what it is. I dont have a ps4 so I cant comment on that but i do have a vita and PS3 and will probably just let the sub lapse.
I went through my ps+ list with my kid and neither of us feel its worth keeping with the offerings as of late... They might be great for some, maybe even most, but not us.

 

[meanspartan]

So, your argument is that it would be the right decision for Sony to put Knack on PS+ because the majority of players want it. Let's assume that Sony could collect this information, if they knew the majority of players wanted a mediocre AAA title, they would please their player base and offer it.

Oh, that's right, they actually do put a survey every month asking how people liked the games and what they could change. They've been doing this since the beginning and, yet, they are still putting out quality indie titles.

I wonder what that survey showed?

Riiiight, because companies always take their internal surveys and change their policy. If Sony is saving tons of money on PS Plus now that it is offering only indies, and they know that their subscription loss would be limited because the service is now mandatory for multiplayer, you think they would change based on a survey? Come on. Also, does the survey ask if they thought Pix the Cat was fun, or does it ask if they would have preferred a AAA? I highly doubt it asks the latter.

I also love the disregard for upvotes on articles, given that even if it is imperfect, it is the best we got to see which way the wind is blowing since Gallup doesn't much care for gamer opinions on the state of the hobby lol.

And I think it is safe to say that IGN, Gamespot, Kotaku, etc get a large share of mainstream gamers. Now, on the articles announcing the Plus games, there are comments complaining about the lack of AAAs, and praising the fun indies.

Guess which ones get hundreds or thousands of upvotes and which ones don't.

 

[Michanical]

Riiiight, because companies always take their internal surveys and change their policy. If Sony is saving tons of money on PS Plus now that it is offering only indies, and they know that their subscription loss would be limited because the service is now mandatory for multiplayer, they would TOTALLY change based on a survey.

I also love the disregard for upvotes on articles, given that even if it is imperfect, it is the best we got to see which way the wind is blowing since Gallup doesn't much care for gamer opinions on the state of the hobby lol.

And I think it is safe to say that IGN, Gamespot, Kotaku, etc get a large share of mainstream gamers. Now, on the articles announcing the Plus games, there are comments complaining about the lack of AAAs, and praising the fun indies.

Guess which ones get hundreds or thousands of upvotes and which ones don't.

I conceded this point in my edit. You are right; but what I want are the best games, not the most expensive ones. You aren't going to get the best games on IGC this early, so I'll argue that sony should not change course if their goal is to give people the best games possible. Especially because we are getting these games the day they release!

 

[RedRooster]

Obviously, I don't have the capability to send a poll out to every Ps4 owner, so ya, I can't prove a majority.

But are you honestly going to sit here and argue that if I COULD send such a poll out, and I asked whether the millions of Plus members preferred Assassin's Creed 4, Infamous, or even Knack vs. Binding of Issac, Binding of Issac would win? Or even come close to winning?

Come on dude. The absence of means to prove does not disallow for safe assumptions to be made. And saying that most, yes MOST Plus members want AAA over another indie is not exactly taking a giant leap into the unknown.

So my mistake for using the word "fact" I guess, you're right I can't prove it beyond all doubt. I should have said "in all likelihood" or something of that sort.

Who knows, you could be right. But how do you know its not the publishers refusing to make deals to put their games on PS+ for fear of ravaging initial sales? That is what is most likely going to happen to indie games by offering them Day 1 all the time, but those guys probably don't care because they at least get a guaranteed payday.

Why would a big publisher want to put their AAA game on PS+ at this point and risk losing hundreds of thousands of sales as people just wait 6 months until it's free on PS+?

Or I could be talking out my ass and its just going to take one to do it, before the rest all pile on again.

 

[Dr_LucienSanchez]

People want a game they can sink their teeth into, not time killers or extreme skill based type games. Knack isn't a great game by any stretch, but it has a campaign mode with a story that has production values. It has a linear story with a good length of gameplay and collectables. There is an inherent difference between indies and retails.

This has been addressed so many times in this thread and others. The thinking that there is some fundamental difference between retails and indies is just toxic though.

I just only hope that we never start getting games like Knack over games like Binding of Isaac (which is the definition of a game that I 'could sink my teeth into').

I also love the disregard for upvotes on articles, given that even if it is imperfect, it is the best we got to see which way the wind is blowing since Gallup doesn't much care for gamer opinions on the state of the hobby lol.

And I think it is safe to say that IGN, Gamespot, Kotaku, etc get a large share of mainstream gamers. Now, on the articles announcing the Plus games, there are comments complaining about the lack of AAAs, and praising the fun indies.

Guess which ones get hundreds or thousands of upvotes and which ones don't.

I don't think you can associate upvotes on comments as some sort of objective barometer for games satisfaction.

 

[Apathy]

Who knows, you could be right. But how do you know its not the publishers refusing to make deals to put their games on PS+ for fear of ravaging initial sales? That is what is most likely going to happen to indie games by offering them Day 1 all the time, but those guys probably don't care because they at least get a guaranteed payday.

Why would a big publisher want to put their AAA game on PS+ at this point and risk losing hundreds of thousands of sales as people just wait 6 months until it's free on PS+?

Or I could be talking out my ass and its just going to take one to do it, before the rest all pile on again.

No you're right an it's an argument that I have brought up already yet no one cares. The fact that the PS4 ecosystem is growing quickly and lack of games means (in terms of quantity and genre) means that there is still a large chance of companies selling their games (even older ones) at full price because there is not a lot there to pick from. Obviously a publisher can do basic math and have a cost benefit analysis to see "hmm well at a small price per unit on download from plus vs what our internal reports are showing on a monthly scale, it is still not worth it to put our games on plus". This is why we don't see AAA games on plus yet.

 

[Michanical]

You jumped into the argument and didn't even bother to read it. The games they are giving are much smaller scale, point fest, type games. People want a game they can sink their teeth into, not time killers or extreme skill based type games. Knack isn't a great game by any stretch, but it has a campaign mode with a story that has production values. It has a linear story with a good length of gameplay and collectables. There is an inherent difference between indies and retails.

Binding of Isaac has the reputation of being an indie game you can sink your teeth into. Check any thread it is mentioned in, and you'll find people talking about the hundreds of hours they've poured into that game. This "I need a game I can sink my teeth into" shows that you have a warped attitude of perceived value, and says more about you than it does about indies or AAA.

Edit, for example:

In terms of this month im deligthed, Iv put about 200 hours into Issac on PC and can't wait to play it on PS4. It alone has more content and replayability than any AAA game they could have put up there in its place.

I love reading this.

 

[samuraidino]

Personally Im fine with indie games.

Iv been subbed to PS+ since its inception and Iv been incredibly happy with it since. Theres been a lot of months that have gone by where iv owned all the instant game collection AAA retail games already for PS3 so I would much prefer seeing brand new indie releases headling a PS4 update instead of a retail game that a lot of folks who subscribe to the service would already own.

But yeah,itd be nice to get them once in a while, but wer a year into the PS4s life cycle and Publishers are more than likely still making money on the games that would usually end up as PS+ content. Its probably too costly to get them and the publishers are probably not interested in giving their games away for free yet.

In terms of this month im deligthed, Iv put about 200 hours into Issac on PC and can't wait to play it on PS4. It alone has more content and replayability than any AAA game they could have put up there in its place.