Have you played Knack?
You say this yet I couldn't stand Bioshock Infinite, BL2 or DMC. Give me Velocity 2X, Pix the Cat and BOI over those games any day of the week. You say the quality has plummeted. I say vastly improved.You mention go back to "two years ago", but really just a few months back we were getting some damn good titles. Hell we got BL2, Bioshock infinite, DMC, etc. It could be a coincidence, it could be more, but honest to god the quality has plummeted in terms of size of the games since the plus sub became mandatory for online.
You say this yet I couldn't stand Bioshock Infinite, BL2 or DMC. Give me Velocity 2X, Pix the Cat and BOI over those games any day of the week. You say the quality has plummeted. I say vastly improved.
My issue with is that I bought into ps+ being lead to believe that we would get AAA titles. There was precedence on PS3. I accepted that it would be a while before we got AAA titles, but its been a year and I feel that there is no reason a launch game or something hasnt shown up by now. Indie games work better on my iPad and my laptop where I can play them in bed for very short spurts.You say this yet I couldn't stand Bioshock Infinite, BL2 or DMC. Give me Velocity 2X, Pix the Cat and BOI over those games any day of the week. You say the quality has plummeted. I say vastly improved.
Variety is good, in scale as well as genre. Plus getting rid of AAA games weakens the service.
My issue with is that I bought into ps+ being lead to believe that we would get AAA titles. There was precedence on PS3. I accepted that it would be a while before we got AAA titles, but its been a year and I feel that there is no reason a launch game or something hasnt shown up by now. Indie games work better on my iPad and my laptop where I can play them in bed for very short spurts.
I'm also getting tired of seeing people get crucified because they aren't into indie games eventhough they may be considered "great" games. That doesn't mean they do anything for me.
Exactly. If you hadn't bought anything, and depending on which devices you own, you would still have ended up with Velocity, Spelunky, Guacamelee, TxK, Binding of Isaac, Don't Starve, Pics the Cat, Frozen Synapse, Hotline Miami, Fez and more. Obviously that's not everything worth playing by a long shot, but it's a decent portion of the indie games available on PSN and commonly recommended on here.I will say they are setting the precedent to where people will just stop buying indie games and wait for them to show up on PS+. Kind of like "wait for the next Steam sale" mentality. That's not good for independent developers.
Exactly. If you hadn't bought anything, and depending on which devices you own, you would still have ended up with Velocity, Spelunky, Guacamelee, TxK, Binding of Isaac, Don't Starve, Pics the Cat, Frozen Synapse, Hotline Miami, Fez and more. Obviously that's not everything worth playing by a long shot, but it's a decent portion of the indie games available on PSN and commonly recommended on here.
PSN Plus has been pretty shitty for me the last few months also but to expect "AAA" titles after a year is pretty ridiculous. That's just setting yourself up for disappointment.
A year is not ridiculous at all. There are now a ton of AAA titles that ps plus could offer. Bioshock Infinite, Metro Last Light and Tomb Raider all showed up within that time frame give or take a month or two.
I honestly thought Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition or Thief would have made it by now.
While I was creating the entire ps4 plus list above - going thru each month and seeing what the ps3 had was ridiculous. It would be "for the gamers" if they put up KZ: SF, Knack, TR: DE, IF: SS, MGS: GZ.
One of these at least. It would really be big and meaningful as these were full priced games.
People need to seriously take it easy. People come into a game forum to express their opinions on games.not everyone has the same opinion and tastes - is that hard to accept?
And yes obnoxious posts are obnoxious when they belittle peoples views when they go against their own.
"We know we're getting 2 great games this month." Really? Who is "we"? Because there are ALOT of unhappy people here. It seems like " we" is the "we" in your reality - not everyone else's.
Lastly, LoL - "impressively obtuse" what is that? You sound like someone trying to hard to use vocabulary. Im sure you're smart.....ok?
Its all button presses so its who does it the best. I have such a backlog that I'll never get to so I'll download BoI but never play it. Its about choices and there are plenty.
If that's what you like its good you get it for free. If its not what you like then you'll complain.
Its really not difficult to understand. "Real Gamers" may have too much free time on their hands. Maybe that's it.
P.S. - I'd rather try knack. My kids enjoyed watching the trailers.
You ignored my point completely. Its about whats reasonable to expect. If you feel that PS+ isnt worth your time because they arent giving you Uncharted, that says more about you than it does about the service youve purchased, and much like the people who complain when they dont get what they like, you are going to get people who do get what they like and have just as much incentive to voice their satisfaction. Like I said in a previous post, we seem to want to sprint towards mediocre AAA, which is what Knack and Killzone are, instead of embracing top tier indie games, like BoI, Dust, and Spelunky. We arent going to get Uncharted as part of IGC, so when people start beating the drum of AAA PLZ, they are asking for bad games on principle, not top tier AAA, because Sony will not give Uncharted at this point in the PS4 lifecycle. If you dont feel like playing the games available because you have too much of a back catalogue, then IGC is a bad investment for you. If it takes something like Uncharted to get you to drop your backlog, then its time to temper your expectations or drop the service.
Also, all this sarcastic talk about real gamers doesnt add to the conversation and doesnt address the problem. If, to you, the notion that a game should be judged on the merits of its gameplay and not disregarded because it doesnt look good, is somehow taking games too seriously and is a worth mocking, then I dont know where I stand with gamers anymore. It strikes me as extremely superficial and closed minded and the opposite of the kind of enthusiasm towards gaming I grew up with. Your comment on knack is exactly what Im talking about: Knack looks nice, but was universally panned for being boring and having shitty gameplay, but, again, it looked nice so it is more worth your time. You wont find a thread where BoI is mentioned and someone doesnt come in to say how theyve spent 50/100/150/400 hours in the original because the gameplay is that engaging.
The original and expansion did something interesting to the game community when it came out that very few games do well: the amount of discovery and myth about how the game worked creates something very exciting as people tried to figure the game out. It went a year or so where the wikis were still wrong about how the items worked because the game is a black box in a lot of ways, and it wasnt until someone cracked the game open and looked at the equations that a lot of debates were settled. With the remake done, and a lot of stuff changed from the original as well as a crazy amount of new content, were back at square one with the black box and now the number of people that get to experience this collective discovery is greatly expanded and they get this day one of release, with the rest of the community.
But, no, Knack plz.
You ignored my point completely. It’s about what’s reasonable to expect. If you feel that PS+ isn’t worth your time because they aren’t giving you Uncharted, that says more about you than it does about the service you’ve purchased, and much like the people who complain when they don’t get what they like, you are going to get people who do get what they like and have just as much incentive to voice their satisfaction. Like I said in a previous post, we seem to want to sprint towards mediocre AAA, which is what Knack and Killzone are, instead of embracing top tier indie games, like BoI, Dust, and Spelunky. We aren’t going to get Uncharted as part of IGC, so when people start beating the drum of “AAA PLZ,” they are asking for bad games on principle, not top tier AAA, because Sony will not give Uncharted at this point in the PS4 lifecycle. If you don’t feel like playing the games available because you have too much of a back catalogue, then IGC is a bad investment for you. If it takes something like Uncharted to get you to drop your backlog, then it’s time to temper your expectations or drop the service.
Also, all this sarcastic talk about “real gamers” doesn’t add to the conversation and doesn’t address the problem. If, to you, the notion that a game should be judged on the merits of its gameplay and not disregarded because “it doesn’t look good,” is somehow taking games too seriously and is a worth mocking, then I don’t know where I stand with gamers anymore. It strikes me as extremely superficial and closed minded and the opposite of the kind of enthusiasm towards gaming I grew up with. Your comment on knack is exactly what I’m talking about: Knack looks nice, but was universally panned for being boring and having shitty gameplay, but, again, it looked nice so it is more worth your time. You won’t find a thread where BoI is mentioned and someone doesn’t come in to say how they’ve spent 50/100/150/400 hours in the original because the gameplay is that engaging.
The original and expansion did something interesting to the game community when it came out that very few games do well: the amount of discovery and “myth” about how the game worked creates something very exciting as people tried to figure the game out. It went a year or so where the wikis were still wrong about how the items worked because the game is a black box in a lot of ways, and it wasn’t until someone cracked the game open and looked at the equations that a lot of debates were settled. With the remake done, and a lot of stuff changed from the original as well as a crazy amount of new content, we’re back at square one with the black box and now the number of people that get to experience this collective discovery is greatly expanded and they get this day one of release, with the rest of the community.
But, no, “Knack plz.”
How do you know that signing new indie games costs a lot less than almost year old retail games (especially ones that Sony themselves published)?Right now, Sony is clearly spending a lot less on PS Plus, especially now that Ps3 seems to be getting the indie-only nerf as well. Are you ok with the fact that Sony is spending far less on Plus while you still pay the same $50 a year? Seriously? (And it's not like the money saved is going towards improving PSN as a network....)
Yes absolutely "Knack plz" (though something better would be more welcome) and I'll tell you why. Right now, Sony is clearly spending a lot less on PS Plus, especially now that Ps3 seems to be getting the indie-only nerf as well. Are you ok with the fact that Sony is spending far less on Plus while you still pay the same $50 a month? Seriously? (And it's not like the money saved is going towards improving PSN as a network....)
The indies don't have to go away, but now that it's been a year there absolutely should be some AAAs too. Knack fits perfectly into Plus for me. The games I'm super interested in, I buy at or near launch. Knack got mediocre reviews so I passed on it, but there are some people who claim it is pretty good so I do want to give it a try. And I doubt I'm alone.
Nice bait and switch really. Smart. Make Ps3 Plus very awesome so no one really complained when Ps4 Plus was mandatory for multiplayer. Then, not only don't release AAA on PS4 Plus, but take them away from Ps3 as well. Oh and don't worry, because if people attack you for it the indie defense force will come out to criticize them for their "inferior" tastes and daring to say that they want a mediocre AAA over something they'll never play. I expected indies for the first several months to a year, because I don't expect them to give away their launch list obviously. But I doubt Killzone and Knack are lighting up the sales charts for them still, so they would make sense on Plus now. Soon, Infamous will follow into that category as well.
And you don't have to look far to see people aren't happy about this- look at any PS Plus for November article's comment section. I'm sure you'll disregard the "plebs" opinions, but guess what, people who want AAA on Plus are the majority, and it isn't even close. Nobody is saying indies shouldn't be on Plus, but many people pay that $50 with the understanding that there will be AAA games on the service. I'm happy for you that you think indies are enough, but they aren't for me.
How do you know that signing new indie games costs a lot less than almost year old retail games (especially ones that Sony themselves published)?
I don't know what plus you're paying for, but I pay anywhere between 30 and 50 per year not per month. Boils down to between $2.50 to $4.17 a month or $0.42 to $0.70 per game. So for 70 cents, they are able to give me a brand new 15 dollar indie game, I am 100% alright with that.
Bolded is opinion, not fact.
Ya, ya, my bad I meant year not month.
Bolded is fact, not opinion. It may not be the Gaf majority, but go on any mainstream website and look at the comments sections. You'll see the people who are pissed about lack of AAA get the most upvotes, and it isn't even close.
Or ask your friends. I at least play some of them (I loved Pix the Cat), but many of my more casual gamer friends groan when they see nothing but indies on the service they pay for. They don't want another 2d sidescroller, they want that game they were interested in playing last year but didn't get around to /couldn't afford.
More like a gut feeling that could easily be wrong. Sony also knows that many people enjoy good indie games and people there work hard setting up these deals.Common sense really. Sony knows how many people are irritated by nothing but indies on Ps4 Plus. If it were cheaper to put a AAA on Plus over yet another indie, they would do it.
Yes absolutely "Knack plz" (though something better would be more welcome) and I'll tell you why. Right now, Sony is clearly spending a lot less on PS Plus, especially now that Ps3 seems to be getting the indie-only nerf as well. Are you ok with the fact that Sony is spending far less on Plus while you still pay the same $50 a month? Seriously? (And it's not like the money saved is going towards improving PSN as a network....)
The indies don't have to go away, but now that it's been a year there absolutely should be some AAAs too. Knack fits perfectly into Plus for me. The games I'm super interested in, I buy at or near launch. Knack got mediocre reviews so I passed on it, but there are some people who claim it is pretty good so I do want to give it a try. And I doubt I'm alone.
You realize, just because "majority" in your eyes are posting does not mean an actual majority thinks the same way. So it's not "fact". And sorry, my friends are quite happy with games offered, guess my friends cancel out what your friends think. The fact an article can have a bunch of vocal minority posting while the majority is happy does not make your claim fact.
Yes absolutely "Knack plz" (though something better would be more welcome) and I'll tell you why. Right now, Sony is clearly spending a lot less on PS Plus, especially now that Ps3 seems to be getting the indie-only nerf as well. Are you ok with the fact that Sony is spending far less on Plus while you still pay the same $50 a year? Seriously? (And it's not like the money saved is going towards improving PSN as a network....)
The indies don't have to go away, but now that it's been a year there absolutely should be some AAAs too. Knack fits perfectly into Plus for me. The games I'm super interested in, I buy at or near launch. Knack got mediocre reviews so I passed on it, but there are some people who claim it is pretty good so I do want to give it a try. And I doubt I'm alone.
Nice bait and switch really. Smart. Make Ps3 Plus very awesome so no one really complained when Ps4 Plus was mandatory for multiplayer. Then, not only don't release AAA on PS4 Plus, but take them away from Ps3 as well. Oh and don't worry, because if people attack you for it the indie defense force will come out to criticize them for their "inferior" tastes and daring to say that they want a mediocre AAA over something they'll never play. I expected indies for the first several months to a year, because I don't expect them to give away their launch list obviously. But I doubt Killzone and Knack are lighting up the sales charts for them still, so they would make sense on Plus now. Soon, Infamous will follow into that category as well.
And you don't have to look far to see people aren't happy about this- look at any PS Plus for November article's comment section. I'm sure you'll disregard the "plebs" opinions, but guess what, people who want AAA on Plus are the majority, and it isn't even close. Nobody is saying indies shouldn't be on Plus, but many people pay that $50 with the understanding that there will be AAA games on the service. I'm happy for you that you think indies are enough, but they aren't for me.
You say this yet I couldn't stand Bioshock Infinite, BL2 or DMC. Give me Velocity 2X, Pix the Cat and BOI over those games any day of the week. You say the quality has plummeted. I say vastly improved.
Come on dude. The absence of means to prove does not disallow for safe assumptions to be made. And saying that most, yes MOST Plus members want AAA over another indie is not exactly taking a giant leap into the unknown.
Just looking at that list, not only does it show the strength of indies, but also the Playstation platforms.Exactly. If you hadn't bought anything, and depending on which devices you own, you would still have ended up with Velocity, Spelunky, Guacamelee, TxK, Binding of Isaac, Don't Starve, Pics the Cat, Frozen Synapse, Hotline Miami, Fez and more. Obviously that's not everything worth playing by a long shot, but it's a decent portion of the indie games available on PSN and commonly recommended on here.
More like a gut feeling that could easily be wrong. Sony also knows that many people enjoy good indie games and people there work hard setting up these deals.
Obviously, I don't have the capability to send a poll out to every Ps4 owner, so ya, I can't prove a majority.
But are you honestly going to sit here and argue that if I COULD send such a poll out, and I asked whether the millions of Plus members preferred Assassin's Creed 4, Infamous, or even Knack vs. Binding of Issac, Binding of Issac would win? Or even come close to winning?
Come on dude. The absence of means to prove does not disallow for safe assumptions to be made. And saying that most, yes MOST Plus members want AAA over another indie is not exactly taking a giant leap into the unknown.
So my mistake for using the word "fact" I guess, you're right I can't prove it beyond all doubt. I should have said "in all likelihood" or something of that sort.
So, your argument is that it would be the right decision for Sony to put Knack on PS+ because the majority of players want it. Let's assume that Sony could collect this information, if they knew the majority of players wanted a mediocre AAA title, they would please their player base and offer it.
Oh, that's right, they actually do put a survey every month asking how people liked the games and what they could change. They've been doing this since the beginning and, yet, they are still putting out quality indie titles.
I wonder what that survey showed?
Riiiight, because companies always take their internal surveys and change their policy. If Sony is saving tons of money on PS Plus now that it is offering only indies, and they know that their subscription loss would be limited because the service is now mandatory for multiplayer, they would TOTALLY change based on a survey.
I also love the disregard for upvotes on articles, given that even if it is imperfect, it is the best we got to see which way the wind is blowing since Gallup doesn't much care for gamer opinions on the state of the hobby lol.
And I think it is safe to say that IGN, Gamespot, Kotaku, etc get a large share of mainstream gamers. Now, on the articles announcing the Plus games, there are comments complaining about the lack of AAAs, and praising the fun indies.
Guess which ones get hundreds or thousands of upvotes and which ones don't.
Obviously, I don't have the capability to send a poll out to every Ps4 owner, so ya, I can't prove a majority.
But are you honestly going to sit here and argue that if I COULD send such a poll out, and I asked whether the millions of Plus members preferred Assassin's Creed 4, Infamous, or even Knack vs. Binding of Issac, Binding of Issac would win? Or even come close to winning?
Come on dude. The absence of means to prove does not disallow for safe assumptions to be made. And saying that most, yes MOST Plus members want AAA over another indie is not exactly taking a giant leap into the unknown.
So my mistake for using the word "fact" I guess, you're right I can't prove it beyond all doubt. I should have said "in all likelihood" or something of that sort.
People want a game they can sink their teeth into, not time killers or extreme skill based type games. Knack isn't a great game by any stretch, but it has a campaign mode with a story that has production values. It has a linear story with a good length of gameplay and collectables. There is an inherent difference between indies and retails.
I also love the disregard for upvotes on articles, given that even if it is imperfect, it is the best we got to see which way the wind is blowing since Gallup doesn't much care for gamer opinions on the state of the hobby lol.
And I think it is safe to say that IGN, Gamespot, Kotaku, etc get a large share of mainstream gamers. Now, on the articles announcing the Plus games, there are comments complaining about the lack of AAAs, and praising the fun indies.
Guess which ones get hundreds or thousands of upvotes and which ones don't.
Who knows, you could be right. But how do you know its not the publishers refusing to make deals to put their games on PS+ for fear of ravaging initial sales? That is what is most likely going to happen to indie games by offering them Day 1 all the time, but those guys probably don't care because they at least get a guaranteed payday.
Why would a big publisher want to put their AAA game on PS+ at this point and risk losing hundreds of thousands of sales as people just wait 6 months until it's free on PS+?
Or I could be talking out my ass and its just going to take one to do it, before the rest all pile on again.
You jumped into the argument and didn't even bother to read it. The games they are giving are much smaller scale, point fest, type games. People want a game they can sink their teeth into, not time killers or extreme skill based type games. Knack isn't a great game by any stretch, but it has a campaign mode with a story that has production values. It has a linear story with a good length of gameplay and collectables. There is an inherent difference between indies and retails.
In terms of this month im deligthed, Iv put about 200 hours into Issac on PC and can't wait to play it on PS4. It alone has more content and replayability than any AAA game they could have put up there in its place.