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Canadian PoliGAF - 42nd Parliament: Sunny Ways in Trudeaupia
- Thread starter matthewwhatever
- Start date
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Yeah I can't defend the grandstanding here. JT got impatient and aggressive when he completely shouldn't have but the subsequent screaming is completely out of proportion from both the NDP and the Cons.
If the response was in proportion it wouldn't have blown up in their face.
And blocking the whip prior was bullshit.
If the response was in proportion it wouldn't have blown up in their face.
And blocking the whip prior was bullshit.
matthewwhatever
Member
Exactly this. I think the NDP and the Conservatives could've come out of this ahead, but then they went and drastically overplayed their hands. If they hadn't compared Trudeau to an impaired driver killing someone or to the Parliament Hill shooter, or if they hadn't suggested he was secretly beating his wife and kids -- all of which were done on camera -- they could've come out looking like the bigger people. Instead they did all those things and more, and came off as petulant drama queens. Like, I'm sure that Brosseau was a little put off by the whole episode, but to turn around and give an exclusive interview about how she's still "shaken" by it to Canadian Press doesn't make her sound like a normal, functioning human being. It makes her sound like she's milking it with an eye to a possible leadership bid, much like a few weeks ago, when she tried leading a farmer protest on the Hill and then undermined it by talking to the media covering it about whether she was interested in Mulcair's job.
I know it was satire, but if the NDP caucus really had shown up in neck braces and slings like the Beaverton article said, it probably would've worked out far better for them, since it would've shown a sense of humour about a pretty dumb story.
And, of course, neither opposition party was helped much by the media's breathless coverage. I know that media members want drama, and that they're not getting it when the Liberals are at 50%+ in the polls and neither opposition party has a permanent leader, but giving wall-to-wall coverage to a short video of Trudeau walking across the floor and grabbing a guy's elbow probably seemed a little over-the-top to most viewers. If anything, it probably helps Trudeau, since it gives him a bit of an edge -- just think of how much people loved Chretien after he grabbed the protester by the neck.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
omg what... are you serious?
Hahahahahaha JESUS
Indeed.
Really? 'Cause if so I guess that'd backfire as hell, 'cause I thought it'd make her sound more like she's a whiny little baby. The opposite of leadership material.
gutter_trash
Banned
when the NDP sinks lower than the Conservatives with under the belt tactics then cause the Bill not to pass.. those NDP MPs will have to go back to their constituants and explain why their schoolyard buffoonery caused one important piece of legislation to fail
Conservatives are Conservatives, it not surprising what they do or say. It is expected.
But the NDP? LOL so-called social-democrat party, so called progressives start acting like obstructionists... boooo the NDP
Ambulance Chasing Muclair. One minute he is laughing then he suddenly snaps into raging Angry Tom with his FIFA soccer manager performance
Conservatives are Conservatives, it not surprising what they do or say. It is expected.
But the NDP? LOL so-called social-democrat party, so called progressives start acting like obstructionists... boooo the NDP
Ambulance Chasing Muclair. One minute he is laughing then he suddenly snaps into raging Angry Tom with his FIFA soccer manager performance
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
I haven't heard one person I know so far say anything else than how they are full of shit. I don't think this is doing the NDP any help at all. Dumbasses.
As usual, the Beaverton is spot on in its satire.
I think the biggest advantage that the Liberals have over the CPC/NDP right now is that they're authentic -- even with their mistakes. They own what they do, with very little politicking on their part. Contrast that with the opposition and their jockeying for attention. Their actions are disingenuous and smacks of political opportunism.
It's very telling when smaller political parties -- the Bloc and the Greens -- are better behaved.
John Oliver calls out #elbowgate for being blown out of proportion and stupid.
http://youtu.be/geUaExNq9-Y
http://youtu.be/geUaExNq9-Y
I saw Michael Harris' "Party of One" book on Stephen Harper and a thrift store and picked it up. It's seriously makes all this elbow stuff look like small cookies compared to the legendary shit Harper pulled. F-35's being the most expensive purchase in govt history and how they hid the numbers on them, firing of top bureaucrats for doing their damn jobs, and throwing our international reputation in the trash.
Now everyone wants to talk about some elbowing gtfo.
Now everyone wants to talk about some elbowing gtfo.
But Harper would never elbow a woman or manhandle another MP, let alone an opposition MP (please let there be contrary evidence to the preceding statement)!
gutter_trash
Banned
people still talking about it one week later proves that Canadian news is boring
I was just hoping someone with better googlefu than I could back up my sarcasm
killer rin
Member
As much as I have grown annoyed of Elbow-Gate; I'd prefer Canadian Politics to be boring than the Reality TV Show of the USA.
gutter_trash
Banned
we got the best of both worlds:
we got our boring and safe brand of politics living in comfort,
while we can still tune into to our neighbour to the South's Reality TV program and laugh at them
Hillary 2016
Laevateinn
Member
It's only a matter of time before the people from Love It or List It run for the Liberal leadership.
yanipheonu
Member
This stupid Elbowgate thing has been so hilariously overblown, it's just been this on repeat for me:
It's like the opposition sees the circus across the border and desperately wants to have some small bit of that. Really stupid. Liberals honestly come out on top with this whole fabricated fiasco.
It's like the opposition sees the circus across the border and desperately wants to have some small bit of that. Really stupid. Liberals honestly come out on top with this whole fabricated fiasco.
gutter_trash
Banned
http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/pq-leade...ue-hivon-promising-electoral-reform-1.2915274
http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/p...von-sengage-a-reformer-le-mode-de-scrutin.php
Veronique Hivon, candidate in the running to suceed PKP in the PQ leadership spoke of electoral reform:
she has not specied if it would be proportional, instant-run-off or preferential ballot
I have no respect for Alexandre Cloutier, he gets pedaled as a young man but his policies are more of the same from the PQ of 40 years ago.
http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/p...von-sengage-a-reformer-le-mode-de-scrutin.php
Veronique Hivon, candidate in the running to suceed PKP in the PQ leadership spoke of electoral reform:
she has not specied if it would be proportional, instant-run-off or preferential ballot
Hivon is the only one in the PQ that I currently respect. This is "generous" coming from me.
I have no respect for Alexandre Cloutier, he gets pedaled as a young man but his policies are more of the same from the PQ of 40 years ago.
TheRealTalker
Banned
anyone know the progress for the so called infrastructure plan?
matthewwhatever
Member
No money out the door yet, since they're still trying to get the budget through the House. For a party with a decent-sized majority, the Liberals are really taking their time in passing legislation. I appreciate they want to do away with the Harper-style omnibus bills, but a little more urgency would be nice.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Doesn't help that the opposition has been stalling and obstructing at every possible opportunity. If only someone would "strongarm" them along--OH WAIT
killer rin
Member
It was in the budget, I don't think there was any progress yet. You likely won't see much brand new stuff come from it for the first couple years because most of it was marked down for infrastructure repair or upgrades
You know with all of the obstruction, eventually the Liberals are going to just say "Fuck It" and start doing shit whether or not the Opposition wants to participate or not
matthewwhatever
Member
Yeah...unfortunately, opposition parties both here and in the US seem to have taken up the argument that there's not much benefit to cooperating with the government, since it's the governing party that reaps the benefits from successful legislation, and it makes it harder for the opposition to criticize if/when things go wrong. It's a lousy way of approaching governance, since it means there's little choice but for governments to act unilaterally, but that's where we are.
And speaking of dumb things we're apparently importing from south of the border, how's our version of Trump's bid for CPC leadership going?
He also advocates for "dual-track health care".
His run for leader is going to be hilariously inept. I hope he does it. And if he's successful, he'll doom the CPC next election. What's not to like about it?
"Stephen Harper to resign as MP before parliament resumes in Fall"
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stephen-harper-to-bow-out-from-federal-politics-1.3598913
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stephen-harper-to-bow-out-from-federal-politics-1.3598913
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/ontari...o-cut-1-5b-in-hydro-bills-documents-1.2912611
The Ontario government wasting money? Why I never!
The Ontario government wasting money? Why I never!
PumpkinSpice
Banned
He's really stupid, if he was determined he could learn French before the leadership convention. It would take a lot of effort and determination and he wouldn't be a perfect speaker by then for sure but if he was serious about wanting to lead the country he could make it happen.
I can't see Canadians swarming to him for the same "Not a politician/Serious change" that Trump is pulling in.
To be completely honest I think he probably has a better shot than most people give him credit for. Arguably a better shot than almost any other candidate for ndp or CPC leadership out there right now, because Trudeau is still seen as an anti-establishment campaigner to some extent and you can't really fight that with establishment.
But realistically no one is going to beat Trudeau in the next election, and I really doubt Mr Wonderful would stick around long enough to try again. He'd leave the CPC a smouldering ruin.
The one caveat is that if trump wins this fall, his chances get much better. It's remarkable how much Canadian politics often seem to mirror American politics if you apply a bit of lag.
gutter_trash
Banned
Mr. Wonderful has already lost:
he said that he understands French but doesn't feel the need to speak it because French-Canadians understand English.
Quebec is the on Province in 2015 where the CPC made gains. They are not going to piss only the only region where they actually had growth.
he said that he understands French but doesn't feel the need to speak it because French-Canadians understand English.
Quebec is the on Province in 2015 where the CPC made gains. They are not going to piss only the only region where they actually had growth.
Yes they are. He has to be PM 24/7/365 you know, because regular folk don't get to take time for their family.
TheRealTalker
Banned
ah got it thanks guys
----
With Harper soon retiring I guess some CPC guys will try and up their leader image
aka more silliness and fear mongering
I know you think everybody should pander to Quebec, but I really doubt the CPC give much of a shit about trying to consolidate gains in Quebec. No matter what that's a huge uphill battle compared to regaining seats in Toronto or west. They'll be looking to rebuild their house before they try to fix the garage.
It's not that long ago Toronto gave us Ford Nation. They can easily do it again.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Conservatives pulling big wins in the greaterish-kinda-sorta-toronto-area in 2011 was a once in a lifetime event that was built largely on reaching out to majority-minority residents. It's not something they're going to be able to pull off again any time soon.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
This is exactly why any Conservative member with an eye towards winning the real game would never vote in a leader that can't speak French. They'd turn their party into a national embarrassment.
Maybe US Republicans are that stupid but I sincerely doubt our Conservatives are.
I didn't say big wins. But if I were a betting person, I'd still say that's where they'll look for gains and they'll probably get them. No matter what, suburbanites are more likely to vote conservative, and the GTA has the largest collection of suburb in this country.
I admire your optimism, but I think history (recent and long) demonstrates that these proclamations are not as durable as you think they are.
I can't believe we're paying for his date night.
p_xavier
Authorized Fister
I'm quite impressed that Ontario is deemed to surpass the province of Québec for the most debt per inhabitant... while still managing big deficits...
TheRealTalker
Banned
Hydro in Ontario is a joke
gutter actually has a very good point with the CPC in Quebec. The province has a lot of soft Liberal/PC support, even to the point where Bloc originated from former PC/Liberal MPs. The CPC also made relatively large gains in Quebec prior to the Orange wave, and the Liberal's near-sweep shows that Quebec is flexible in terms of its federalist leanings.
Ontario is a bit of a different story though. While there is a significant portion of the population that are Blue Liberals, there's enough left-of-center votes that'll coalesce around the Liberals to ensure that the CPC won't win seats for the foreseeable future. Their momentary dalliance with Rob Ford and the CPC has taught them that much.
None of this means they won't push for more seats where they've lost them than try to take new territory. I think it'd be monumentally stupid of them to push for Quebec now. Like, fracture the party potential stupid. They probably aren't going to win in 2019 anyways, but they need to consolidate and make sure they bring back some of what they lost before they gamble.
What they did when they had a solid base is quite a different matter. When they get there again we can talk about Quebec.
<sarcasm>Yeah, voters sure do learn lessons and don't do stupid things over and over again</sarcasm>.
So much optimism. Even moderating from Ford still leaves you with some of the most right wing and reactionary politics this country has ever seen. That doesn't just vanish into thin air.
Don't sell our stupidity short. We'll do plenty of stupid things against our own interest for seemingly no reason.
edit: I mean, we (toronto) did elect John Tory after all, and even Ontario at large wouldn't touch him in a general.
gutter_trash
Banned
no Province leans one way, each Provincial has regional distinct pockets.
The CPC is still and will continue to be Locked-Out of the greater Montreal area and burbs.
Trudeau will continue to be super strong in Montreal. The NDP will continue to lose more ground
But the CPC strength comes from mainly two regions in the Province: the Quebec City area, the Beauce (libertarian) region and in-between.
Jack Layton's 2011 gains in those specific regions have been erased in 2015.
The CPC is still and will continue to be Locked-Out of the greater Montreal area and burbs.
Trudeau will continue to be super strong in Montreal. The NDP will continue to lose more ground
But the CPC strength comes from mainly two regions in the Province: the Quebec City area, the Beauce (libertarian) region and in-between.
Jack Layton's 2011 gains in those specific regions have been erased in 2015.
I'm not so sure about that: I could definitely see rural Quebec leaning Blue next election, especially if the CPC starts to lean toward eastward. Choosing a French-speaking, pro-statist leader would do the CPC a lot of good.
After all, Charest, Coderre, and other Quebecois political leaders could be seen as right-ish Liberals or left-ish Tories.
edit: Actually, IIRC, aren't the Quebec Liberals more or less ex-federal PC members? At least Charest was.
To be fair though, I don't think there's anything wrong with John Tory specifically . It was more the poisoned well of Ontario Provincial Politics that pushed him and his party towards their current positions. It's all about finding the wedge issues to garner swing or disinterested voters as each voting bloc is entrenched in their own respective positions.
Barring a total collapse of provincial Liberal support -- ie. something scandalous enough to bring them down below 20% -- I can see Liberal majorities at both provincial and federal levels for the next decade. And even then, the provincial Liberals can probably pull a squeaker of a minority out at the last minute.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Tory has governed far more to the left than I expected him to.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Yup, he's been fine for the city
At the expense of their base in the west maybe. If it worked. They could lose a few seats in Alberta and I'm not at all sure what it'd do to the interior BC seats they hold.
As people are fond of pointing out in this thread, there's no real PC core in the CPC anymore. I don't think there's much desire for it to return among the core voting block of the CPC, either. It would be a huge gamble to sacrifice the Reform roots of the CPC.
Good on Harper, finally going to get a job.
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