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Dragon Ball Super |OT3| Men in pink? How bizarre!

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A

ArchedThunder

Banned
Krejlooc said:
Trunks and Goten have fused multiple times, why do you think it's impossible that they might not find another way for Kaioshin to accidentally fuse again? Super isn't over, you can't say Kaioshin won't be fused by the time Super ends.
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Kaioshin already said they didn't like being fused and they just used the Namekian balls to defuse. If they ever accidentally refused they'd just wish to be defused again.
 
K

Krejlooc

Banned
ArchedThunder said:
Kaioshin already said they didn't like being fused and they just used the Namekian balls to defuse. If they ever accidentally refused they'd just wish to be defused again.
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Again, perhaps Super will come up with a reason why they can't be unfused again. Are you saying that's impossible?
 
M

Magwik

Banned
Krejlooc said:
Again, perhaps Super will come up with a reason why they can't be unfused again. Are you saying that's impossible?
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It's an anime show that has no basis in reality, so yes it's possible. But in terms of the story presented? Not really. But yes them fusing back is in the realm of possibility just as me stopping at a gas station on my way home tonight and scoring big on the lottery, is possible.
 
A

ArchedThunder

Banned
Krejlooc said:
Again, perhaps Super will come up with a reason why they can't be unfused again. Are you saying that's impossible?
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Impossible? No, just very unlikely. People shouldn't be doing mental gymnastics to try and make GT and Super fit with eachother, they are different and that's okay.
 
C

Chaotic-Strike

Banned
Krejlooc said:
Trunks and Goten have fused multiple times, why do you think it's impossible that they might not find another way for Kaioshin to accidentally fuse again?
Click to expand...

The better question is why they would bother fusing again when they went out of their way to collect the Dragon Balls so they could wish to be unfused again in Super.

The obvious answer being that Super didn't exist yet, but it's clear the writers aren't really interested in staying in close continuity with GT.

I mean just compare it to a similar scene where they went out of their way to let Yajirobe survive his death in the anime filler by using a sensu bean, and it shows where Toei's continuity priorities lies.
 
O

olympia

Member
ArchedThunder said:
He gave the staff sone random notes for filler ideas, but that doesn't mean the filler is canon to the manga. I don't remeber if the anime Hell was his idea. Either way, Toriyama's first depiction of Hell in his work was in F, and it fits better with the idea of the dead being powerless, waiting for reincarnation.

Freeza said he spent his whole time in hell at that tree.
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yeah, i understand that's the only real toriyama depiction of hell. i was mostly just saying that gt was/is canonical to the anime, and of course GT isn't canon if you only consider the manga material/adaptations of the manga or toriyamas story to be canon.

and about freeza, he said he spent his whole time in hell, but theoretically something could have happened in hell between goku killing him after his resurrection and when super 17 would begin. (that would also explain why he isn't a robot in GT hell, or that he isn't in a cocoon in GT hell) again, of course this is unlikely, but i don't really feel that it is something that explicitly contradicts GT. i could be missing a line or two though, idk. e: ooooor does it show him in hell at the end of ROF? I honestly forgot.

and i also agree that toriyama probably doesn't give a shit about GT but it is entirely possible that toei could be steering him away from contradicting GT because that would end up damaging the marketability of GT (other than the overall quality of the show, lol). again, i understand this is purely speculation, i'm just kind of framing my thought process about the relation between GT and Super.

disclaimer: i am completely okay with GT not being canon. idk if any of this is mental gymnastics, i think they are pretty logical conclusions tbh. AND i am of the mind that the writers don't really care about GT but i mean at the same time i don't think there is much to explicitly contradict it. i am 100% open to changing my mind and new info though

e: i like the idea of GT being in another one of the universes but the rules given so far on how the universes work would make this highly unlikely
 
H

HeroR

Member
ArchedThunder said:
Impossible? No, just very unlikely. People shouldn't be doing mental gymnastics to try and make GT and Super fit with eachother, they are different and that's okay.
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God, I got into a argument about Super not connecting to GT on Kanzenshuu with another user. They tried to dismissed Hell being different between Super and GT as the same as Beerus claimed of killing the dinosaurs while the dinosaurs still being alive.

You can like GT. You can like GT more than Super. But as things stand, Super and GT don't take place in the same timeline. At best, GT is an AU like most of the Digimon seasons after season 2, unless stated otherwise.

Toriyama also don't have a good record in taking in other people's work. I mean, he claimed to loved the Bardock special, yet he had no problem overriding it with Minus. It also doesn't matter if he goes against something from the anime since he follows the manga that he wrote. It's just like JK Rowling basing anything on Harry Potter on the book she wrote and not the movie adaptation. Or Star Wars basing stuff on the movies and not the thousands of EU books out there.
 
T

Tsunamo

Member
Chaotic-Strike said:
Here's a new Xenoverse 2 trailer.

Confirming Metal Cooler and Time Breaker Freeza.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIjBiXiqX4U

I'm still annoyed that the Super Saiyan hair doesn't change at all besides becoming yellow like Xenoverse 1.
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With everything minus XV and this getting delayed that I want until next year i'm gonna enjoy Xenoverse 2.

Even if it's not delving into Super until the DLC I know i'm gonna enjoy it. Heck Xenoverse 1 was enjoyable to me on story scenerios alone.

Also I understand why but i'm getting a kick out of Trunk's fight with Freeza or a tidbit of it getting reanimated with purple hair, considering how many people expected that to happen with Blue hair in RoF's Directors Cut. It makes me wonder what colour they'll make Super's Future Trunk's hair in Xenoverse 2. The promoart had Blue, but that's just taken from the Anime promoart.
 
E

Erigu

Member
Krejlooc said:
Toriyama actually gave his approval to GT, and even designed some characters
Click to expand...
Same for the movies, if you go there.

and his son worked on the show as well.
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Wait what?

It's pretty official, way more so than Super, which Toriyama doesn't even contribute much to.
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Obviously, they're both official (or someone would get sued!).
And it seems to me Toriyama had more to do with Dragon Ball Super than he did with Dragon Ball GT, actually.

if Super contradicts GT
Click to expand...
That ship has long sailed.

Krejlooc said:
Right, he clearly doesn't like where the writers of the show are taking things, and is pissed as hell. He was going to stop watching out right, but they gave him some leaked bootleg eps of the trunks 2 saga and he's agreed to stick around for just a little while longer.
Click to expand...
Hahaha! Oh, you.
 
M

-MB-

Member
Chaotic-Strike said:
He did give notes for Hell in the Saiyan arc filler, but that's about it. There's still other continuity error's stuff like the Supreme Kai still being fused in GT while he separated in Super and the whole SSG and SGSS stuff.

Not to mention Frieza not going Gold in his fight with Goku in GT. I doubt AT remembers or even cares anything about GT.
Click to expand...

Super will end with Zeno resetting the universe to end of Buu saga/right before Beerus and GT still able to be cannon.
 
B

Bacon_Boss

Member
Krejlooc said:
It's weird how they never mention Super Saiyan Blue in Dragonball GT. I'm 99.999% certain they'll find some sort of fault with godly ki at the end of Super which will explain why they don't use it in GT.
Click to expand...

Probably the fact that blue was conceived in the last 21 years.
 
G

G.ZZZ

Member
Krejlooc said:
Toriyama actually gave his approval to GT, and even designed some characters, and his son worked on the show as well. It's pretty official, way more so than Super, which Toriyama doesn't even contribute much to. He's watching these episodes just like we are, waiting to figure out what's coming next.

I have to say that if Super contradicts GT, then it'll basically be the definition of bad filler.
Click to expand...

Some top tier trolling right here, bravo.
 
H

HeroR

Member
-MB- said:
Super will end with Zeno resetting the universe to end of Buu saga/right before Beerus and GT still able to be cannon.
Click to expand...

They said Zen-O can destroy universes, not warp reality to the point of changing how Hell works. And why would Toriyama care about GT, a show that he had nothing to do with outside of some sketches, concept art, and the logo. Toriyama loved the Bardock Special, and he didn't canonized it with the manga he wrote. He wrote his over version of events.

Also, why would Toei care about GT? Personal preference aside, GT didn't do well and put the series in a state of dormant until Battle of Gods. Toei didn't even want to consider doing another Dragon Ball series without Toriyama. That is actually how we got Kai. They went to Toriyama, asked for new series, he said no, so Toei decided to make an abridge Dragon Ball Z, while Namco made Heroes.

So Toei resetting Super to make it fit with GT, which is widely regarded as the weakest series in the Dragon Ball franchise, makes little sense. That, and it would make everything in Super moot if they pulled a DC and retcon everything out of existence to fit with a 20 years old series.
 
G

GuessMyUserName

Member
Was in Akihabara today

ILXWrhQ.jpg

UMztgI9.jpg
Click to expand...
 
O

olympia

Member
HeroR said:
They said Zen-O can destroy universes, not warp reality to the point of changing how Hell works. And why would Toriyama care about GT, a show that he had nothing to do with outside of some sketches, concept art, and the logo. Toriyama loved the Bardock Special, and he didn't canonized it with the manga he wrote. He wrote his over version of events.

Also, why would Toei care about GT? Personal preference aside, GT didn't do well and put the series in a state of dormant until Battle of Gods. Toei didn't even want to consider doing another Dragon Ball series without Toriyama. That is actually how we got Kai. They went to Toriyama, asked for new series, he said no, so Toei decided to make an abridge Dragon Ball Z, while Namco made Heroes.

So Toei resetting Super to make it fit with GT, which is widely regarded as the weakest series in the Dragon Ball franchise, makes little sense. That, and it would make everything in Super moot if they pulled a DC and retcon everything out of existence to fit with a 20 years old series.
Click to expand...

I hate to trot out the tired old "because toys" argument, but because, well, toys. They are still selling GT stuff, in general. Dokkan battle has two GT events, and GT sets of cards. They still sell GT gasha. There were two upcoming SSJ4 figures posted in this very thread. And obviously it's worth mentioning all the GT content in Heroes, which makes truckloads of money (apparently). In addition to all of that stuff, the mere existence of Super/Kai raises the awareness of DB everything to new and returning fans who are likely to seek out GT, which means that it could be still sold as a fresh product. Speaking personally, I did not watch GT until I started watching Super. Herms will be doing commentary on GT after Z and I'd bet that there will be people who will check it out for the first time when he does that. It is still a moving product and I do believe that Toei will go out of their way to prevent that part of the DB brand from being damaged.

I agree that Toriyama probably doesn't care about GT. I'm not sure if Dragon Ball Minus is a great example. While it does obviously not play nice with the Bardock special, there isn't an anime adaptation of it, so people watching the anime only (which makes up a sizable portion of the DB fanbase) would never know it existed, so it doesn't exactly compete with the Special.

Again, I am doubtful that they will link Super to GT, let alone acknowledge it. Will Super conclude with EoZ, shortly after which being where GT picks up? And, I do think that there are obviously plenty of reasonable arguments as to why Super contradicts GT/they aren't in the same continuity, but I think there are just as reasonable arguments as to why it doesn't necessarily or explicitly contradict GT. I just personally don't think it's as clear as people make it out to be.

fwiw if they do manage to tie it in with EoZ and or GT I don't think it'll be Zeno pressing the "reset button" or whatever
 
H

HeroR

Member
olympia said:
I hate to trot out the tired old "because toys" argument, but because, well, toys. They are still selling GT stuff, in general. Dokkan battle has two GT events, and GT sets of cards. They still sell GT gasha. There were two upcoming SSJ4 figures posted in this very thread. And obviously it's worth mentioning all the GT content in Heroes, which makes truckloads of money (apparently). In addition to all of that stuff, the mere existence of Super/Kai raises the awareness of DB everything to new and returning fans who are likely to seek out GT, which means that it could be still sold as a fresh product. Speaking personally, I did not watch GT until I started watching Super. Herms will be doing commentary on GT after Z and I'd bet that there will be people who will check it out for the first time when he does that. It is still a moving product and I do believe that Toei will go out of their way to prevent that part of the DB brand from being damaged.

I agree that Toriyama probably doesn't care about GT. I'm not sure if Dragon Ball Minus is a great example. While it does obviously not play nice with the Bardock special, there isn't an anime adaptation of it, so people watching the anime only (which makes up a sizable portion of the DB fanbase) would never know it existed, so it doesn't exactly compete with the Special.

Again, I am doubtful that they will link Super to GT, let alone acknowledge it. Will Super conclude with EoZ, shortly after which being where GT picks up? And, I do think that there are obviously plenty of reasonable arguments as to why Super contradicts GT/they aren't in the same continuity, but I think there are just as reasonable arguments as to why it doesn't necessarily or explicitly contradict GT. I just personally don't think it's as clear as people make it out to be.

fwiw if they do manage to tie it in with EoZ and or GT I don't think it'll be Zeno pressing the "reset button" or whatever
Click to expand...

They can still trot out toys without GT connecting to Super. They have been doing that for Digimon and Sailor Moon for years where they have several spinoff and AUs that don't connect to each other. How do you think Sailor Moon Crystal works? Dragon Ball isn't a special snow flake in this regard. I mean, you can buy figures of three years old Kakarot and Gine who are part of Minus, yet no one makes a fuss about whether they connect to the Bardock Special.

I don't see what Minus not being an anime special proves. So, people are more familiar with the Bardock Special. It only proves my point further that Toriyama doesn't care about a popular adaptation. He will write whatever he want. I mean he put Jaco in Resurrection 'F' and Super, and how many people actually read Jaco's manga?

The anime of Dragon Ball is general more popular than the man, and Toriyama still based everyone on the manga he wrote. He actually knows and remembers precious little about the anime.

I would also like to point out that only certain elements of GT sells or remain popular, like Super Saiyan 4, Baby, Omena Shenron, and Nuova Shenron. How many people who buy these things actually watched GT? I would bet very few.
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
I don't know about GT itself, but SSJ4 seems very popular still. All over the video games, all over Heroes, all over promo art, cards, toys of course... basically everything, really.

You even had stuff like Baby Janemba and Super Android 18 or whatever that monstrosity was. GT ain't going anywhere.

I really wouldn't be surprised if they somehow incorporated SSJ4 into Super, should they finally go beyond the end of Z. Not expecting it, but if it did happen... wouldn't be surprised at all.
 
H

HeroR

Member
Anth0ny said:
I don't know about GT itself, but SSJ4 seems very popular still. All over the video games, all over Heroes, all over promo art, cards, toys of course... basically everything, really.

You even had stuff like Baby Janemba and Super Android 18 or whatever that monstrosity was. GT ain't going anywhere.

I really wouldn't be surprised if they somehow incorporated SSJ4 into Super, should they finally go beyond the end of Z. Not expecting it, but if it did happen... wouldn't be surprised at all.
Click to expand...

With Toriyama writing Super, I highly doubt it.

Toriyama said that tails are just a hinderance, and the reason why Goten and Trunks are so strong is because they are tailless hybrids. We also have the U6 Saiyans who are much stronger than their U7's counterparts and they've evolved without tails. Vegeta's tail was also said not to have grown back because it wasn't needed anymore. Super Saiyan 4 goes against that along with bringing back the Great Apes, something Toriyama abandoned after the Saiyan Saga.

As I said, certain elements from GT remained popular. The show itself, not so much. Also, Heroes throws everything that has ever existed in Dragon Ball into one fanfiction card game, and really shouldn't be used as a standard. I mean, despite the Time Patrol stuff being really popular thanks to Xenoverse, Toriyama has avoided using any of it, and he supposedly made Time Patrol Trunks.
 
O

olympia

Member
HeroR said:
They can still trot out toys without GT connecting to Super. They have been doing that for Digimon and Sailor Moon for years where they have several spinoff and AUs that don't connect to each other. How do you think Sailor Moon Crystal works? Dragon Ball isn't a special snow flake in this regard. I mean, you can buy figures of three years old Kakarot and Gine who are part of Minus, yet no one makes a fuss about whether they connect to the Bardock Special.

I don't see what Minus not being an anime special proves. So, people are more familiar with the Bardock Special. It only proves my point further that Toriyama doesn't care about a popular adaptation. He will write whatever he want. I mean he put Jaco in Resurrection 'F' and Super, and how many people actually read Jaco's manga?

The anime of Dragon Ball is general more popular than the man, and Toriyama still based everyone on the manga he wrote. He actually knows and remembers precious little about the anime.

I would also like to point out that only certain elements of GT sells or remain popular, like Super Saiyan 4, Baby, Omena Shenron, and Nuova Shenron. How many people who buy these things actually watched GT? I would bet very few.
Click to expand...

While I completely agree that GT doesn't need to be 'canon' or even linked to Super to sell toys, I'd argue that comparing it to Sailor Moon and Digimon is kind of ignoring the hook of GT and Super, or initially what makes GT and Super interesting: they are both continuations of Z and a part of the 30-year old saga of the Dragon Ball anime. Unlike Crystal and Digimon, Super and GT are not re-imaginings of the same story and they are not touted as alternate versions of the story or AU. E: I'd also like to note that the perceived concern here is with selling the GT anime itself, too. And yeah, you're right about the Heroes cards, but IIRC, Heroes had an entire section of the game dedicated to GT. That said, I am 100% cool with Toei turning GT into an AU series. Or they can ignore it. I don't care, personally.

My point about Minus is that Toriyama can probably write what he wants in a manga, as long as it doesn't interfere/contradict/compete with the flagship product, being the anime. I I don't think it's a stretch to consider GT to a part of that whole product. Of course, this is just purely speculation, I'm just sharing what I personally think Toei is considering when they think about GT being in the overall picture of the Dragon Ball Anime.
 
S

Sheroking

Member
The less said about GT the better.

I was perfectly happy to completely disregard it long before Battle of Gods or Dragon Ball Super were ever conceived.
 
H

HardRojo

Member
No episode this week is a bummer. Can't believe we're close to reaching 60 episodes of Super, I wonder where the plot will be at by the time we reach episode 100.
GT and Super are different continuities, while Super is being considered by most people (if not all) as the canon one, at least that's how it goes in everyone's minds I suppose. SS4 is a nice design and probably one of the few things I liked about GT the most.
 
H

HeroR

Member
olympia said:
While I completely agree that GT doesn't need to be 'canon' or even linked to Super to sell toys, I'd argue that comparing it to Sailor Moon and Digimon is kind of ignoring the hook of GT and Super, or initially what makes GT and Super interesting: they are both continuations of Z and a part of the 30-year old saga of the Dragon Ball anime. Unlike Crystal and Digimon, Super and GT are not re-imaginings of the same story and they are not touted as alternate versions of the story or AU. E: I'd also like to note that the perceived concern here is with selling the GT anime itself, too. And yeah, you're right about the Heroes cards, but IIRC, Heroes had an entire section of the game dedicated to GT. That said, I am 100% cool with Toei turning GT into an AU series. Or they can ignore it. I don't care, personally.

My point about Minus is that Toriyama can probably write what he wants in a manga, as long as it doesn't interfere/contradict/compete with the flagship product, being the anime. I I don't think it's a stretch to consider GT to a part of that whole product. Of course, this is just purely speculation, I'm just sharing what I personally think Toei is considering when they think about GT being in the overall picture of the Dragon Ball Anime.
Click to expand...

The main flagship of Dragon Ball has always been the manga, at least in Japan where it is the second highest selling manga. The anime is only an adaptation and isn't seen as the main produce except overseas. Also, Toriyama already messed with the anime when he made his own version of Hell and it was in a feature film, and put Jaco who is one big bill board for his manga and Minus.

GT was never really considered canon by the majority of fans. It's like Alien 3. It has its fans and it's a decent movie, but many don't consider it a sequel to Aliens and the new Alien movie ignores it, and that is despite other Aliens movies that considers Alien 3 canon.

GT is the same. It was called a sequel to Z, many fans didn't like it, and tend to ignore it. And people in Japan don't really buy DVDs, so they're not selling the GT anime, who few want to watch anyway.

Super is different from GT since not only is it called a sequel to Z, but they brought back the original creator, which is the true hook of Super, especially after two successful movies. If Super was like GT where Toei made their own adapation without Toriyama, Super wouldn't have gotten the same positive buzz.
 
B

Beth Cyra

Member
HeroR said:
The main flagship of Dragon Ball has always been the manga, at least in Japan where it is the second highest selling manga. The anime is only an adaptation and isn't seen as the main produce except overseas. Also, Toriyama already messed with the anime when he made his own version of Hell and it was in a feature film, and put Jaco who is one big bill board for his manga and Minus.

GT was never really considered canon by the majority of fans. It's like Alien 3. It has its fans and it's a decent movie, but many don't consider it a sequel to Aliens and the new Alien movie ignores it, and that is despite other Aliens movies that considers Alien 3 canon.

GT is the same. It was called a sequel to Z, many fans didn't like it, and tend to ignore it. And people in Japan don't really buy DVDs, so they're not selling the GT anime, who few want to watch anyway.

Super is different from GT since not only is it called a sequel to Z, but they brought back the original creator, which is the true hook of Super, especially after two successful movies. If Super was like GT where Toei made their own adapation without Toriyama, Super wouldn't have gotten the same positive buzz.
Click to expand...
I am going to need to see the receipts on the sales remark here.

GT had great viewings, games that sold and great sales for characters and merchandising.

While it has a vocal hate base nothing I've seen has shown anything really viable to say it's larger then the fanbase for it.
 
H

HeroR

Member
Beth Cyra said:
I am going to need to see the receipts on the sales remark here.

GT had great viewings, games that sold and great sales for characters and merchandising.

While it has a vocal hate base nothing I've seen has shown anything really viable to say it's larger then the fanbase for it.
Click to expand...

GT when it aired started out great, but quickly dropped and never recovered. It wasn't even in the top ten. You can see the data on Kanzenshuu.

Most Dragon Ball game heavily feature Z with GT stuff on the side, if it even have GT at all. Like with Xenoverse, most of the GT stuff was DLC.

As I said, GT is Alien 3. It has fans, but most Alien fans don't see it as a sequel to Aliens.

Also, here is a link showing Dragon Ball is the second highest selling manga in Japan:

http://jpninfo.com/18455
 
B

Beth Cyra

Member
HeroR said:
GT when it aired started out great, but quickly dropped and never recovered. It wasn't even in the top ten. You can see the data on Kanzenshuu.

Most Dragon Ball game heavily feature Z with GT stuff on the side, if it even have GT at all. Like with Xenoverse, most of the GT stuff was DLC.

As I said, GT is Alien 3. It has fans, but most Alien fans don't see it as a sequel to Aliens.

Also, here is a link showing Dragon Ball is the second highest selling manga in Japan:

http://jpninfo.com/18455
Click to expand...

You said that Dragon Ball GT DVDs don't sale none of this shows this.

Your game reference is equally broken unless your gunna say Dragon Ball is equally Aliens 3 because Dragon Ball gets featured rarely as well.

Also the bottom bit about sales says nothing about GT or how it's viewed.

I don't care about GT being canon. The fights Dragon Ball fans about canon is in my opinion the dumbest shit I've ever seen as content being canon simply doesn't matter to me that much.

I just want to see the sales Data of GT tanking and don't think using terms like the majority of fans feel one way about something for a product of this size is something that should be done.
 
N

NandoGip

Member
I wonder how much money Akira Toriyama has made off of the series. It's been a cash cow for like 30 years.

Also with all of this GT talk, i was wondering. What is the best way to watch it? Is there an HD version? Maybe a fan upscale or some sort of hidden gem.

Last time I watched it was on bootleg garbage quality DVD's in the early 2000's, so I'm curious to see how I feel now.
 
B

Beth Cyra

Member
NandoGip said:
I wonder how much money Akira Toriyama has made off of the series. It's been a cash cow for like 30 years.

Also with all of this GT talk, i was wondering. What is the best way to watch it? Is there an HD version? Maybe a fan upscale or some sort of hidden gem.

Last time I watched it was on bootleg garbage quality DVD's in the early 2000's, so I'm curious to see how I feel now.
Click to expand...

You can buy the offically DVD release of the series of GT from Wal Mart right now for 25$.

No HD that I know of.
 
H

Huw_Dawson

Member
GT can't be canon at this point really, but given that canon does not matter (if it's good, it can be made canon somehow) it's not really a big discussion to have. If Toryiama wants to write one of the old movies in, he can say "it happened in an alternate timestream".

DB canon is a thing where you not only have a bunch of alternate universes, the universes all apparently have alternate timelines which machines can jump between!
 
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