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Ultra David feels Street Fighter 5 needs an entire re-release
- Thread starter PadWarrior
- Start date
LukasTaves
Member
Perhaps they should rework everything from the ground up and launch Sf VI instead. Take a couple years off and deliver everything that was planned for SFV on day one, and try to improve the game as a service beyond that.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
I think the reason why execution barriers get mentioned in SFV threads and not in threads for other games is that other games give you enough options for modes that people don't get as frustrated that they can't enjoy the game.
Either make it so the core vs game is more enjoyable to people by lowering execution barriers and making matchmaking better, or provide enough modes to keep the people who don't want to engage with the core game as it is from even having to deal with it.
Capcom basically thought people would just fall in line, take their lumps and learn to play the vs game because it's Street Fighter. But instead, lots of people saw what was on offer, saw that the vs game was going to be as difficult to get into as always, saw there were very few (if any) other viable modes, and said "Nah, I'll play something that gives me options or isn't frustrating."
Either make it so the core vs game is more enjoyable to people by lowering execution barriers and making matchmaking better, or provide enough modes to keep the people who don't want to engage with the core game as it is from even having to deal with it.
Capcom basically thought people would just fall in line, take their lumps and learn to play the vs game because it's Street Fighter. But instead, lots of people saw what was on offer, saw that the vs game was going to be as difficult to get into as always, saw there were very few (if any) other viable modes, and said "Nah, I'll play something that gives me options or isn't frustrating."
They need more SP content for sure. Not everyone enjoys the game the same ways. Arcade, Mini Games that help teach blocking or anti airing or whiff punishing.
KoF14 online modes are better too. They could add team battles where I pick # of chars or 2v2 with me and friend vs another pair, online training, lobbies where everyone plays at the same time, online tourney lobbies, etc.
KoF14 online modes are better too. They could add team battles where I pick # of chars or 2v2 with me and friend vs another pair, online training, lobbies where everyone plays at the same time, online tourney lobbies, etc.
DR2K
Banned
That's ridiculous to all the people that are invested into this game and having a great time.
For Capcom, too.
"Oh we made this expensive thing that people didn't really buy. Let's scrap it and make another one!"
Should they really shut down SFV, we will not get a new one for a loooooooong time.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Real talk: spend money and time next time. Fire or demote whoever ordered so few working on critical aspects like on-line and sending out goddamn rootkits. Dont have spats between divisions in public; being seen as unprofessional in public is the least of your worries from that.
Again, no time machines so yeah.
Fighter tutorials are the gym memberships of video games; the ones who use them actually get to like doing the work, the rest use them as ared herring and actually hate the act of using them.
Again, no time machines so yeah.
Fighter tutorials are the gym memberships of video games; the ones who use them actually get to like doing the work, the rest use them as ared herring and actually hate the act of using them.
Because casuals would line up for a brand new SF not long after the last sequel came out. Surely that would work out for them.
So what you're really suggesting is stop working on SF5, and then go into development for SF6 to launch in 4 or 5 years.
Shit's already in the fan so that's pretty much all they can do at this point, really. SF5's ship sailed.
You do a much better job easing people into the game mechanics and give them single player content that doubles as a tutorial to teach practical applications of techniques.
And if SF6 bombs that is the end of the franchise.
Here's how you save SFV without spending a ton of money:
Super Street Fighter V. Includes all first-year content. Complete UI refresh. Include a single player mode that limits what a player can do until they progress. Example: you can't attack back so you must survive 30 seconds just blocking. The ceiling is low and spikey so you can't jump. Slowly introduce concepts and present scenarios that allow the player to focus solely on them, with final scenarios to bring it all together.
And do it in a story-wrapper. Guess what? They could do this with the existing Cinematic story mode, just replace the 1 round dummy fights with something useful and instructional.
Anyway, take SFV to Super SFV, just like SF4 went to Super SF4, only this time make a feee compatibility update for existing SFV user to take them to Super. The first year content is free for purchasers of Super, for existing owners it remains just as it has always been.
Bruno_Arrais85
Member
I was expecting capcom to fix some of the model faces and clipping throughout the game... but looks like this will never be done
GoldandBlue
Member
But hey, at least they're constantly adding new costumes to buy with real money!
SneakersSO
Member
Almost all SF games have enjoyed 5+ years as the competitive, marquee SF games. No mainline SF game was produced with 4 years of the original's release, no matter how it was received. They didn't even do that when SF3 bombed harder than SFV is doing now. There is no reason for them to abandon ship, especially when the game is drawing growing crowds on its competitive front, and making money on the digital store for them.
What SFV needs isn't a new entry in the series - it simply just needs a revision. Thats far more easier than a VI.
Like UltraDavid said, SF first and foremost needs to have solid SP content. Capcoms gonna Capcom though, so I don't expect to see much improvement over what we have now. Secondly though, SF also needs better MP features so that people are properly matched up with their rank.(This is better now than at launch, but more could be done with how they rank and matchup players) SFV's release was literally starved of everything other than the core gameplay system itself. Although people try and say that they focused on the FGC rather than casuals, that isnt true when both SP/MP content was anemic at best.
SF/Capcom has historically been among the worst fighting game devs when it comes to innovating and providing good SP/MP content on any of their releases anyway, so I really dont expect much to change in the future.
I can see Capcom making a special edition rerelease of SFV after season 2 that includes season 1-3 and the story DLC on disc already. That's about the most they can do in this situation
SF/Capcom has historically been among the worst fighting game devs when it comes to innovating and providing good SP/MP content on any of their releases anyway, so I really dont expect much to change in the future.
I can see Capcom making a special edition rerelease of SFV after season 2 that includes season 1-3 and the story DLC on disc already. That's about the most they can do in this situation
Scrub Mcgrubb
Member
SF4 was also criticized when it launched with no bonus stages- so they added them in Super. Of course SFV never had an arcade mode to start with... thus the lack of any bonus stages.
I don't really agree with the idea of simplifying the moves, and I say this as somebody with terrible execution. Maybe I'm naive but I don't think execution is the biggest issue casual players have with the game.
If SFV had launched with...
- A robust, fun, and rewarding tutorial program/system
- A wide variety of meaningful and engaging single player content providing more ways to earn FM or unlock characters (I.e. beat the game with X character to unlock Y character)
...the game would be much better off.
From there they could have focused on things like improving the netcode or the UI or something. I know there are lots of little things that bug people which have been brought up in this thread already.
But at the end of the day Capcom's eyes seemed to be set on E-sports and the competitive market. When viewing the launch from that perspective I can understand why they did what they did, but it doesn't seem like it was the healthiest way to go.
If SFV had launched with...
- A robust, fun, and rewarding tutorial program/system
- A wide variety of meaningful and engaging single player content providing more ways to earn FM or unlock characters (I.e. beat the game with X character to unlock Y character)
...the game would be much better off.
From there they could have focused on things like improving the netcode or the UI or something. I know there are lots of little things that bug people which have been brought up in this thread already.
But at the end of the day Capcom's eyes seemed to be set on E-sports and the competitive market. When viewing the launch from that perspective I can understand why they did what they did, but it doesn't seem like it was the healthiest way to go.
What is Google?
Omnistalgic
Member
You get it bro...
SFV has to become an RPG for casuals, and separate the MP for the hardcore.
You make a fighting game an RPG with modes, a leveling system, items/character customization, that rewards playing for long hours.
Don't get why Capcom doesn't get it...They literally did it already with SFA3 lol, and the 3D fighters like Virtua fighter 4 Evo and Soul Calibur are great inspirations to take ideas from.
So yeah, must just be about budget.
Scrub Mcgrubb
Member
You know all this talk of tutorials and easy execution- that's Killer Instinct in a nutshell. It definitely has one of the best tutorials ever in a fighting game. It has auto combos to ease in beginners. It has a pretty bad story mode (no offense Maximilian)... but they added a super robust Shadow Lords mode. On top of all of that... it's free to play.
Yet in comparison to Street Fighter V and the general casual audience... that game is totally irrelevant. It's like trying to make a child take medicine... the casual crowd just does not want a learning curve in their games. The trick is going to be hiding that medicine in the child's food... come up with some kind of fun teaching mechanic where causals won't even realize they're actually learning something.
Yet in comparison to Street Fighter V and the general casual audience... that game is totally irrelevant. It's like trying to make a child take medicine... the casual crowd just does not want a learning curve in their games. The trick is going to be hiding that medicine in the child's food... come up with some kind of fun teaching mechanic where causals won't even realize they're actually learning something.
We need something completely revamped when it comes to tutorial.
Doing "how to move" then "how to block" then "how to super" back to back to back not only is boring af but doesn't teach you anything about footsies.
Doing a 5 min "how to footsies" followed by "how to punish" also is going to be incredibly boring and won't stick. Thats not how people learn, even skulgirls and killer instinct, games lauded with great tutorials suck at this.
Integrating these tutorials in a more fun method rather than 1 after the other after the other not only prevents information overload but helps with the retention of info and leads to more fun fights on any level.
Doing "how to move" then "how to block" then "how to super" back to back to back not only is boring af but doesn't teach you anything about footsies.
Doing a 5 min "how to footsies" followed by "how to punish" also is going to be incredibly boring and won't stick. Thats not how people learn, even skulgirls and killer instinct, games lauded with great tutorials suck at this.
Integrating these tutorials in a more fun method rather than 1 after the other after the other not only prevents information overload but helps with the retention of info and leads to more fun fights on any level.
Agree with this.
You can see from the regulars in SFV threads and in this thread the e-sport competitive market are happy with the direction the game is going, they defend it and they're the ones buying costumes and £20 pro tour DLC. That's what I meant by ruining SF. It isn't a casual franchise right now.
And the choice to bring only new characters to Year Two seems like another misstep considering design-wise the new characters in V (aside from Laura), look pretty awful.
Blanka is a huge casual favourite and iconic SF character. Sagat is hugely popular. Seems a no-brainer to throw in a FF character, and RS and DS while we're at it. 5 all-new characters after Akuma in 2017 would be more exciting if the basic roster and game modes were solid.
Omnistalgic
Member
SF still has the brand power...They just need to add things around the meat and potatoes.
A lot of suggestions, but I think just calling SFV early access and releasing at $40 digital only would have been enough for almost all of this backlash to be done with. Then once the game had a bunch of content, release to retailers. Hardcore would have probably even double dipped. And none of this bad word of mouth.
swarley64
Member
Good single-player modes, and a good training mode?
kunonabi
Member
Don't forget the crazy amount of content the Rival Schools games got.
The only re-release SFV needs is the one where they put Ibuki's move set back to the one she's had since the 1990's...
Just saying...
I'm not talking about the vortex, leave that shit out, I'm talking returning her to her original move set.
I mean, Ken is in the game, did they take away his ability to throw a hadouken or dragon punch?
No. No they didn't.
What about Chun Li? Does she still spinning bird kick?
Yes. Yes she does.
Bring back real Ibuki Capcom and maybe I'll buy some DLC from you.
Because whatever the fuck you have in SFV right now is not Ibuki... And there's a word for that: lame.
#NeckBreakerMeIfOld
Just saying...
I'm not talking about the vortex, leave that shit out, I'm talking returning her to her original move set.
I mean, Ken is in the game, did they take away his ability to throw a hadouken or dragon punch?
No. No they didn't.
What about Chun Li? Does she still spinning bird kick?
Yes. Yes she does.
Bring back real Ibuki Capcom and maybe I'll buy some DLC from you.
Because whatever the fuck you have in SFV right now is not Ibuki... And there's a word for that: lame.
#NeckBreakerMeIfOld
Juri players also feel this
Well, we can argue about how good it is, but it's not just how to do it. It goes into some details.
Example:
CountBlack
Member
I don't like the way KI plays or the cast outside of like 2 or 3 characters though.
Petrae
Member
Pretty much. Most people have moved on. There are so many other games to play, so releasing a Street Fighter V: We Fixed It! edition would fly completely under the radar.
Let the FGC have Street Fighter and try to subsidize it. At least, with Capcom's failure, other publishers are figuring out that single-player content more than an afterthought. Maybe even Capcom will figure it out.
Omnistalgic
Member
OMG...Those games were so good to just progress through all the groups stories. It was amazing with each trio from each school having there own personalities. Amazing that that's a Capcom game.
Honestly, I think they are very well capable of making SF something amazing for hardcore and casual, this was a financial decision. Nothing else makes sense. In 2018 when it's more fleshed out, only then will we be able to say whether it was worth it or not.
I think releasing a beta would have made Capcom enough money but that's speaking from ignorance. Currently though, I think my release a FTP version with just Ryu/Chun is the best way to win back casuals, just don't blow the load too early on it, wait until the game is beefier.
At least there's 2 or 3 characters in KI you like the way they play...
Since they broke Ibuki by erasing her move list she's had since 1997 and broke Ken by giving him bananas for hair and a shit-eating grin... There's exactly 0 characters in SFV I like the way they play.
Are people really serious about wanting easy mode or one button specials, arts...etc in SF game???!
What SFV needs is contents not to simplify it, if you want more accessible fighting games you can buy something other than street fighter. Also if complexity is the issue here then how the hell did SF4 sell almost 8mil copies when everyone around can confirm SF4 had Harder execution barrier than SFV.
What SFV needs is contents not to simplify it, if you want more accessible fighting games you can buy something other than street fighter. Also if complexity is the issue here then how the hell did SF4 sell almost 8mil copies when everyone around can confirm SF4 had Harder execution barrier than SFV.
I did. It was ok, but it was also like 5% of what it needs to be.
What it needs is a lengthy tutorial mode covering everything, say a flashback where you play as young Ryu against, Gouken with cut scenes etc. And when you complete the tutorial you unlock Gouken as a player character. For pro players if they ace it they get an extra costume?
Then a separate mini-tutorial mode for character specific stuff that earns you a new colour or costume for that character.
This leads into the actual arcade mode.
This way there are carrots dangled for the player every step of the way which also train them up for online play. It's how most fighting games have been since Tekken 3. Lots of conditions to complete to unlock new things. Hell, give us FF characters and a side-scrolling minigame. Capcom just need to put some effort in.
I really miss that game even the one on Dreamcast was prefect with lots of modes.
After season 2 they could re release a 'complete' edition.
If they want to breath fresh life they would just need to change the character select screen like when we went from vanilla sf4 to super.
A new character select screen for me at least really makes it feel like a different game
If they want to breath fresh life they would just need to change the character select screen like when we went from vanilla sf4 to super.
A new character select screen for me at least really makes it feel like a different game
Scrub Mcgrubb
Member
Yeah that goes back to what I was saying earlier about Capcom having a terrible PR department. They did put out some pre-launch videos for SFV detailing the content roadmap, etc.... but it went totally unnoticed and led to that terrible tidal wave of complaints at launch. Because of that alone... many people never gave the game a fair chance to prove how good it is (on a gameplay level at least).
GuileBootCamp
Member
Yeah, I think casual players and hardcore players are motivated by fundamentally different things.
For the hardcore player, their motivation is to improve their skills, and seeing the results of their improvement through winning matches is the greatest reward. Hardcore players are intrinsically motivated.
Casual players are more focused on extrinsic motivation. This is where World Tour and similar modes excel. They give casual players a sense of progress that is not tied directly to their skill level.
Of course, there is always some overlap. A casual player will generally still feel proud of hitting a combo into their super, and I know that as hardcore player, I'd still have fun with World Tour mode, and liked it in SFA3.
Anyway, I don't think the problem with this game that Capcom still needs to solve is a lack of content. I think casual players don't have a way to feel a sense of progress that isn't tied to their own skill level.
So yeah...World Tour mode, Capcom. Get on that.
It wasn't complexity or lack of complexity that sold SFIV...
It was a drought of Street Fighter games and 2D fighting games that had gone on for years which created the buyer and an install base that encompassed the PlayStation and Xbox ecosystems.
SFV comes out at a time where some would say maybe there are too many 2D fighting games...and a time when KI has shown that you can sell a fighting game piece meal...
Scrub Mcgrubb
Member
Street Fighter 4 ran the nostalgia train hard... the series had been dormant for a decade and they put the World Warrior cast front and center of it. I remember a common thing I heard after SF4 was announced was "There was a Street Fighter 3?".
Also each update to SF4 sold roughly half as much as the previous version.... AE and Ultra only sold about a million copies each. By then the nostalgic casuals realized they were never really actually that good at the game and had moved on to something else.
Personally I think the skill should having the ability to link moves into combos. I prefer mortal kombat to street fighter because I can do all of the special moves. They are all quite easy to execute. The difficult part is stringing them into a combo. I will say that this street fighter is much easier to play than the last one. But also as a casual fan not having the classic fighters feels really lame to me.