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[Yekshemesh]

These are also the same people who told us "it's not going to be that bad" and "give Trump a chance", fuck these people.

 

[kmax]

At no point did I ever "apologize" for nazis. The fact that me questioning the value of vigilante violence gets me labeled a nazi sympathizer is pretty disturbing.

And sure, I'll bring this up with Trump over dinner tonight! I definitely have direct contact with the president or anyone he knows. *rollseyes*

Of course. You are just boxing yourself into the corner you yourself set up.

That would be ideal, but I propose that you instead join the millions of people that are standing up to hate and bigotry by fighting tooth and nail if you must instead of carrying their battles by covertly arguing for a case that has direct impact on innocent people's lives.

Anyway, I think it was about time you entered my ignore list.

 

[psyfi]

Holy shit, I just got home from camping all weekend, this is terrible... My god. Our country is so deeply traumatized and violent. We need to heal our hate.

 

[Father_Brain]

I mean, yeah. I agree. But I don't understand how you get from there to the conclusion that vigilante violence is going to help defeat the white-supremacist/neonazi wing of the current republican party. Widespread violence in which neonazis appear to be the victims rather than the instigators seems far more likely to cause so-called-moderates to rally around the currently flailing and historically unpopular Trump administration.

To clarify, I'm not saying you should never punch a nazi. I'm saying nazi punching is not a viable platform, and advocating its widespread adoption seems likely to backfire.

The point of activism is to broaden the spectrum of what's politically viable

 

[KHarvey16]

If you're arguing that this situation is analogous to WWII and we must do the same here to defeat naziism, I don't see how you can be against shooting them on sight. I mean if you're really not willing to acknowledge any differences you sort of have to follow up with it the same way.

 

[Snarky(HEART)]

What the "violence isn't the answer" people are afraid to REALLY say is "Minorities, please try and deal with it longer."

 

[Chuckie]

2 out of 3 pageresults are german. Thats amusing.

Isn't the original Antifa from Germany?

 

[royalan]

Just a reminder, because it's getting lost in all of this, that part of the reason things got so violent yesterday are the cops, who ain't shit either and are borderline complicit in white supremacy.

White supremacists push up against riot line... With no consequence.

This is the system at work.

 

[LegendofJoe]

They are the ones marching out in makeshift suits of armor with swords and shields, why don't you go tell that to them! Literally go fucking tell them that not people who peacefully protest considering defending themselves.

They were looking for a fight from the beginning. It's a joke that the National Guard wasn't deployed immediately. If I was at the counter protest I would have brought something to defend myself with and I would have advised others to do the same.

 

[Not]

I need to stay off Twitter. I'm itching for a fight. Can't tell if it's just testosterone.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm basically talking about tweeting back at alt-right people.

 

[JambiBum]

If you're arguing that this situation is analogous to WWII and we must do the same here to defeat naziism, I don't see how you can be against shooting them on sight. I mean if you're really not willing to acknowledge any differences you sort of have to follow up with it the same way.

This is my point. Nazism wasn't defeated with words, it was defeated with violence. Was that violence a horrible thing that I wish never had to happen? Yes. Was it necessary? Yes. Sometimes in history words aren't enough to do what is right. It would be great if all it took was a good speech and counter protests for nazis to see why they are wrong but that isn't the case.

 

[Not]

What the "violence isn't the answer" people are afraid to REALLY say is "Minorities, please try and deal with it longer."

Yeah. Just wait! I'm sure things will turn out fine for you without making things a trifle inconvenient for me!

 

[KHarvey16]

This is my point. Nazism wasn't defeated with words, it was defeated with violence. Was that violence a horrible thing that I wish never had to happen? Yes. Was it necessary? Yes. Sometimes in history words aren't enough to do what is right. It would be great if all it took was a good speech and counter protests for nazis to see why they are wrong but that isn't the case.

So you believe the answer is to gun down every member of every gathering?

 

[ZOONAMI]

Just a reminder, because it's getting lost in all of this, that part of the reason things got so violent yesterday are the cops, who ain't shit either and are borderline complicit in white supremacy.

White supremacists post up against riot line... With no consequence.

This is the system at work.

Cops - oh these are white guys. Nothing to be afraid of here.

Cops later - shit a mother fucking white guy drove into a crowd of people?

Cops even later - it's too difficult to evaluate this awful status quo so let's just go back to fucking with black people.

 

[Mass Effect]

Ban nazi speech.
Ban nazis from gathering.
Ban people from being nazis.

Unfortunately, none of this will ever happen in the United States.

 

[The Wart]

Wing?

Heh, I knew that was coming! Anyone who voted for Trump is racist, but that's not the same as literally being a white supremacist or neonazi.

 

[Kinyou]

So I searched "Antifa" on Facebook just now, because I'm quite uneducated as to what that means.

The first result I see from Facebook's "news"

Crazy that this is the first result. No one should get their news from Facebook

 

[Mass Effect]

Wait, you actually thought I was implying he'd face prison time for a forum post? The "you" was meant in general terms, meaning, anyone who is willing to act out what he advocates will accomplish nothing more than receiving a prison sentence. Surprised you didn't call out my use of the word "enjoy" too. Sheesh.

and you actually think that people will start going around killing alt-righters/nazis/whatever?

come on.

 

[The Kree]

So you believe the answer is to gun down every member of every gathering?

So you believe we should wait for the ethnic cleansing to start before we do anything?

 

[Alienous]

Ban nazi speech.
Ban nazis from gathering.
Ban people from being nazis.

It should be that simple.

There isn't a slippery-slope over this - there was a World War fought over whether or not it is a valid political stance, and it turns out it wasn't.

There's nothing to gain by tolerating people waving Nazi flags. Inciting a riot isn't covered by freedom of speech, and how could waving a Nazi flag do anything else?

Tolerating it is such an insult to everyone who fought to make sure those flags didn't fly high in America.

 

[KHarvey16]

and you actually think that people will start going around killing alt-righters/nazis/whatever?

come on.

Can I ask what good are comparisons to WWII if not to encourage killing the enemy? I think you recognize there actually is a difference between the current situation and a full on war, and that is an area where folks can actually discuss things without either side accusing the other of being a nazi sympathizer. Some people hate nazis as much as you or anyone else but honestly and truly believe violence in this situation leads to an even worse outcome. You can disagree but that doesn't mean they like nazis.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Crazy that this is the first result. No one shouod get their news from Facebook

Guess where most Americans get their news from.

Guess how good college educated grads are at knowing the difference between real and fake news.

 

[Not]

Ban nazi speech.
Ban nazis from gathering.
Ban people from being nazis.

Unfortunately, none of this will ever happen in the United States.

I dunno. I think I've just decided to make it one of my political platforms.

 

[The Wart]

and you actually think that people will start going around killing alt-righters/nazis/whatever?

come on.

I mean, yeah? Some people in this thread seem to be taking it very seriously and very literally. I am worried that if murderous rhetoric gets tossed around so casually, then yes, someone will actually act on it.

 

[KHarvey16]

So you believe we should wait for the ethnic cleansing to start before we do anything?

Nope. There's a big list of anythings that occupy the space between "nothing" and "gunning down."

I also notice neither of you have answered the question.

 

[JambiBum]

So you believe the answer is to gun down every member of every gathering?

Every member of every gathering is too broad, but to be more specific, every member with nazi memorabilia, yes. Especially if things keep escalating the way things are now. If we had a competent government that arrested any of these people and put them away for a long time then that would be different. Violence wouldn't be necessary in that case. Maybe if they saw consequences for their actions they might change but right now there aren't any. At least not on a lawful level. Of course I don't want violence to be the answer but with the way things are going it keeps looking more and more like it may be the only one.

Discounting our current government's stance on matters, what would your answer be?

 

[Real Hero]

If you're arguing that this situation is analogous to WWII and we must do the same here to defeat naziism, I don't see how you can be against shooting them on sight. I mean if you're really not willing to acknowledge any differences you sort of have to follow up with it the same way.

Edit woops I agree

 

[The Kree]

Nope. There's a big list of anythings that occupy the space between "nothing" and "gunning down."

I also notice neither of you have answered the question.

You answered it yourself.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

A deeply unpopular candidate lost against another deeply unpopular candidate, and he has a historically unpopular administration that so busy fighting with itself and its own party that it is incapable of pursing any major reforms. Political power in America is also much more distributed than it was in pre-Nazi germany. So the idea that the time for political action has passed is completely absurd.

Yes, it is a disgrace that he was elected and yes, our country is deeply and insidiously racist. You also have people in this thread literally advocating for rounding people up and shooting them in the head. Both of these things should bother you. The former more than the latter, sure, but also the latter.

I'd throw out the idea that the only reason one of the candidates was "deeply unpopular" was because a lot of men couldn't deal with the idea of a female beating out their beloved Bernie Sanders and no one spoke up when the other candidate basically did a character assassination. The time for political action has passed because there's no appetite for political action, just the ramblings of a reality TV star.

One side of those people are literally advocating rounding up people of a different race and putting a bullet in their head. Live by the sword.

Actually... He was beaten at the ballot box

Yes, but the system still allowed him to win. Turn of phrase.

 

[Real Hero]

If you really think murdering people is the solution, start now or you are a hypocrite

 

[Saint Gregory]

So I searched "Antifa" on Facebook just now, because I'm quite uneducated as to what that means.

The first result I see from Facebook's "news"

FB was instrumental in help Trump get elected. I'm not really sure why anyone would give them the benefit of the doubt anymore. It would take them a single day to put the protections in place to prevent fake news stories from popping up on their site.

 

[XOMTOR]

and you actually think that people will start going around killing alt-righters/nazis/whatever?

come on.

I hope not but openly advocating such is unnecessary and does nothing to further reasonable discourse; it's nothing but trash-talk.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

If you really think murdering people is the solution, start now or you are a hypocrite

What would you do to stop Nazism?

 

[Spoiled Milk]

If you can learn to hate, you can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than the opposite.

 

[besada]

If people think this is a good thread in which to troll, they have misread the ice upon which they walk.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

I just don't want extrajudicial violence. Please. Some of the things I'm reading are genuinely insane. Advocacy for the murder of people is contemptible. We do not live in a lawless society.

 

[Switch Back 9]

I'm not saying kill these dudes but absolutely 100% they should get kicked, punched, rocks thrown at them etc...

Did you guys NOT see that fucking video? Honest to god, if this shit happened in Toronto tomorrow you bet your fucking ass I'd be down there getting amongst it.

 

[Danneee]

Violence isn't the answer.

Actually, against nazis, it's the only answer.

 

[Real Hero]

What would you do to stop Nazism?

I don't know, are you planning to murder someone? You know America didn't kill all the nazis right? After the war it gave them jobs. You can't kill all the nazis just like cant kill every Islamic terrorist. Things don't work that way. If I saw a nazi prick doing something to someone I'd have no bones about beating the shit out of him, I'm not saying we need to 'Understand' them but murder is not how to combat an ideology from within. I don't know the answer but I'm not going to kill terry from down the street because he believes Jews control the world

 

[mjp2417]

What would you do to stop Nazism?

The same things folks were doing in Charlottesville. Make them feel unwelcome, outnumbered, and scared. When they try to co-opt a public platform shout them down and chase them out of town. Pull their hoods off and make their identities publicly known. There are a near infinite range of effective options occupying the space between limp-dick "let's have a dialogue" and mass murder.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Suppose you've exterminated all current openly avowed Nazis. Then what? You go after people who could become one in the future because they fit some profile just be extra sure they never come back? Do you go after their families in case they want to avenge their brother/father/cousin? You're not thinking any of this through clearly, it's pure emotional reaction.

 

[OraleeWey]

I found this on Reddit
Titled "No One is Born Racist 1992"

 

[GoldenEye 007]

I don't know, are you planning to murder someone? You know America didn't kill all the nazis right? After the war it gave them jobs. You can't kill all the nazis just like cant kill every Islamic terrorist. Things don't work that way. If I saw a nazi prick doing something to someone I'd have no bones about beating the shit out of him, I'm not saying we need to 'Understand' them but murder is not how to combat an ideaomigy from within

If their actions warranted a physical response (attacking someone), then so be it. If it means their life is over, that's ok too.

Outside of that, whatever possible to help ensure they don't have a platform.

 

[TyrantII]

Let me guess, your way of fighting back against these people is with motivational speeches and peaceful counter protests right?

It amusing to me you think you can win a fight against them. That's the wrong battle. Don't get baited. Know your history.

Y'all need to cut the ego tough guy shit. You don't win against facists by breaking down the institutions and norms they're seeking to break down and co-opt.

 

[Not]

Forcing the other side to defend the extreme form of their position before one can accept their actual, less extreme ideology is the death of discourse.

 

[Nepenthe]

Suppose you've exterminated all current openly avowed Nazis. Then what? You go after people who could become one in the future because they fit some profile just be extra sure they never come back? Do you go after their families in case they want to avenge their brother/father/cousin? You're not thinking any of this through clearly, it's pure emotional reaction.

You do a Germany and initiate a massive smearing and educational campaign against the ideology while still punching the few roaches that crop up. There need not be any Big Brother aspect to this, although good luck getting any kind of large scale repudiation to happen in America where the confederacy is still viewed as a plucky underdog.

 

[molnizzle]

So you believe we should wait for the ethnic cleansing to start before we do anything?

Give me a break. Such an event could never happen today, and you know it.

Suppose you've exterminated all current openly avowed Nazis. Then what? You go after people who could become one in the future because they fit some profile just be extra sure they never come back? Do you go after their families in case they want to avenge their brother/father/cousin? You're not thinking any of this through clearly, it's pure emotional reaction.

The standard GAF reaction from all the usual suspects.

People in this thread advocating for the literal murder and extermination of people. Unbelievable.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Forcing the other side to defend the extreme form of their position before one can accept their actual, less extreme ideology is the death of discourse.

I'd say extrajudicial violence is already a pretty extreme starting point.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

I need to stay off Twitter. I'm itching for a fight. Can't tell if it's just testosterone.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm basically talking about tweeting back at alt-right people.

Yup. I was on Facebook and saw someone I know arguing wih a gay black guy about how this whole thing is no different from people gathering for pride.

I just cant with these people. There isnt much else to say besides fuck off or fuck you.

 

[Mass Effect]

Can I ask what good are comparisons to WWII if not to encourage killing the enemy? I think you recognize there actually is a difference between the current situation and a full on war, and that is an area where folks can actually discuss things without either side accusing the other of being a nazi sympathizer. Some people hate nazis as much as you or anyone else but honestly and truly believe violence in this situation leads to an even worse outcome. You can disagree but that doesn't mean they like nazis.

I know it will lead to worse situations. Random attacks on Nazis will lead to retaliation, more than likely unprovoked attacks in kind, and possibly martial law in some areas. And guess who will suffer most for it? Minorities.

So while I'm not morally opposed to the idea, I'm not a fan of the inevitable consequences.

I mean, yeah? Some people in this thread seem to be taking it very seriously and very literally. I am worried that if murderous rhetoric gets tossed around so casually, then yes, someone will actually act on it.

I hope not but openly advocating such is unnecessary and does nothing to further reasonable discourse; it's nothing but trash-talk.

Until it actually starts happening, it's nothing more than that; heated rhetoric.

Though if there's an instance of someone getting attacked by Nazis, I am all for jumping in to beat the shit out of them in kind. I'm not going to watch someone potentially die.