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[SneakersSO]

I'm 4 episodes in. For context: Loved S1 & S2 of DD, really enjoyed JJ although I had a few gripes here & there, didn't get into Luke Cage (felt like it was spinning its wheels in the 1st half, 2nd half just bored me to sleep almost nightly), and Iron Fist basically got turned off after the 1st episode.

So, missing IF makes me feel like i'm missing out on a lot of the setup here. I have no idea who Alexandra or any of the other plot elements that have to do with Iron Fist. And everything about his depiction in his show is back here & dialed to 11 - I legitimately cannot stand watching a scene with him. For starters, as someone who has a rough idea of Iron Fist from the comics & genuinely finds the concept fascinating, Danny Rand's depiction here is just unbelievable amounts of shit. Maybe its cause the concept of having this badass martial artists who is meant to be the most advanced fighter around look like he is flailing about half the time, or that he never even utilizes his unique power set, but Danny just comes off as a petulant child.

In Iron Fist, he starts the show by basically going around saying who he is & that he wants what is his birthright. And now he just goes around saying he's the Immortal Iron Fist, as if that makes it so. I keep being reminded of Tywin Lannister's "Any man who says they are a king is no king." line whenever Danny refers to himself & how awesome he supposedly is. The worst part is, I do want Iron Fist on the show. I just want one that is depicted far different (better) then the nonsense in this adaptation.

There is something about the way this show is shot that just 'feels' cheap. Its hard to describe. There are a lot of angles & such that feel almost like a fan/amateur attempt at directing a TV show about their favorite heroes. I had to actually go back & check out Daredevil & some of my favorite moments from that show to remind myself that it wasn't my imagination - the scene framing & shot direction was just far better on the show. Doubly so for the fights. The only person display any amount of decent fight choreography is DD. I also gotta say just how supremely underwhelmed I am that 'The Black Sky' that got built up in DD season 2 turned out to be a revived Elektra who is a little bit stronger. Like, she isn't even Luke Cage levels of strength so far, she's just a little stronger then daredevil, seems weaker than JJ. There just ain't a whole lot threatening about her.

And what is The Hand's deal? Like, why is having a badass martial artist on their payroll (Elektra) the key to their success, so much so that they pulled out all the stops for in DD S2? Like, I thought these people had a master plan here? World domination & access to mystical realm stuff that none of the heroes would be able to deal with. Like, I remember that initial episode with Stick in S1 of DD & how that kid in the van was way more than he appeared. And its like... now I just get the feeling the kid might've been extra good at martial arts or something. I dunno. This is all over the place. I understand a few of them want to be immortal. The cheeky joke they keep doing with Alexandra, how she'll reference a historical place as if she was there, only to be corrected by some informed onlooker about some detail she got wrong, even though she was right cause she was actually there, is getting a bit stale. They've done it three times now, and i'm only 4 episodes in.

The reality is, I just don't feel any stakes or build up here. No one feels like they have any skin in the game with the exception of Matt due to Elektra. I guess Rand is avenging (yeah that's a pun) some martial arts nation/place he was at but I have zero investment in anything going on with him & his story line, and that Kun-lun place never even got built up in the few episodes of Iron Fist I skimmed through, so its not like there is any particular attachment to that place or the cast that inhabited it. Cage is there because of that White Hat guy but I really don't know who that is or why I should care. I actually enjoyed why Jessica got pulled into all of this but I get the feeling she isn't gonna get much more motivation besides that.

Also gotta say, considering i'm 4 episodes deep, the pacing just feels wayyyyyy slower. I felt like a lot more happened with these characters in their own respective shows by this time. They'd be at least mid-way through an arc or something. This just feels like its just getting started but we're halfway through the show. And I have the distinct feeling this ain't gonna get better.

 

[hobozero]

There is something about the way this show is shot that just 'feels' cheap. Its hard to describe.

Spoiler

Edit: Spoiler from Ep 8. Realized you said you are only on ep 4.

 

[aly]

Maybe I'm an idiot, but why was Luke defending that kid so hard from Danny. Thye both had points. Also such a fan shame how MCU has turned what should be the most powerful defender into a loser.

 

[dcelw540]

Spoiler

Edit: Spoiler from Ep 8. Realized you said you are only on ep 4.

HAHA, I couldn't believe this when I saw this. I was floored.

 

[VeeP]

Finished it. With all the series, with the possible exception of Daredevil, it always felt like they were so close to good/great but they just couldn't make the jump. The script got sloppy or weak, or the action or the CG, etc.

Defender's definitely falls into that same pattern. Episode 7, and definitely 8 - the show just becomes a lot weaker.

Episode 3-6 were great imo, and episode 1-2 were a nice set up.

 

[Macnair]

Are the people in K'un-Lun really wiped out? I mean The Hand wanted to go back to K'un-Lun and If they were there and killed everyone why return to New York?

 

[stryke]

If only Doctor Strange had been concerned about people digging up dragon bones from under NYC.

Who do think teleported Matt before the building collapsed?

Anyways, the motivations of the villains seem super inconsistent. The want to go back to Kun Lun but the wall was only a door to the substance deposit. And how was Elektra able to get to Kun Lun and kill everyone?

 

[Rumblebones]

Season 1 of Daredevil watched like a good volume read.

Jessica Jones was much the same but was more noticeably "long" especially towards the end.

Season 2 of Daredevil was pretty good still, but set a clearer pattern for what we later came to understand was Marvel's apparently obligatory mid-season villain switch up.

Luke Cage started strong with its first 3 episodes and never recovered after Cottonmouth bit it. I think Diamonback was legitimately terrifying, but wasted and premature.

Iron Fist was basically an even worse version of the terrible seasons of Arrow without any of the earlier established good will to make up for it.

Defenders was just so damn disappointing as a whole. The Hand did not impress. Danny was much more tolerable but still bad, and , damn it, they wasted Sigourney Weaver!

 

[antispin]

That was thoroughly underwhelming.

 

[ryseing]

Has there ever been a bigger downgrade from Sigourney Weaver to Elodie Yung in the main villain role of a season of television? Because while Sigourney isn't great she's still far above whatever the fuck Yung is trying to do.

What a stupid fucking show. I thought the first half was OK but the endless exposition and terrible acting from 3/4 of the cast wore me down.

And just a reminder- Chernobyl was caused by the discovery of dragon bones underneath the site. BECAUSE OF COURSE.

Also looked more "networky" if you understand what I mean. Definitely looked cheaper than the preceding shows.

 

[LotusHD]

Considering Sig sucked as the main villain, I didn't find it to be that bad of a downgrade, pretty much little changed, since she kept siccing Elektra on people anyhow, now Elektra's simply in charge.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Maybe they could only afford 6 episodes of Signourney phoning it in.

 

[NimbusD]

Has there ever been a bigger downgrade from

Spoiler

Sigourney Weaver to Elodie Yung in the main villain role of a season of television? Because while Sigourney isn't great she's still far above whatever the fuck Yung is trying to do.

What a stupid fucking show. I thought the first half was OK but the endless exposition and terrible acting from 3/4 of the cast wore me down.

And just a reminder- Chernobyl was caused by the discovery of dragon bones underneath the site. BECAUSE OF COURSE.

Also looked more "networky" if you understand what I mean. Definitely looked cheaper than the preceding shows.

Spoilering that and you should to. (EDIT: Well fuck me, I didn't read the thread title in full. Just saw other tags in here and assumed....I'm an idiot) But I'd say that Luke Cage was similar to what you're talking about for bad guys.

Just finished the show. Wow, that was bad. I've defended everything since DD s1. Well except Iron Fist, holy crap that show was just bad. Also the guy playing Danny Rand is awful at it.

But Defenders honestly was worse than even Iron fist. Everything before the heros meet up was full of scenes that moved nothing along, built no characters, just did nothing. THey met, and that was kinda cool, but then the show hid the bad guys and their motivations almost the whole time, and when they finally revealed them, nothing made sense.

Then simple things stoppped making sense too, like

Spoiler

everyone being a block away from a building coming down and not being affected by it?

. The worst offense of all was that the action was just bad, poorly shot and poorly choreographed. Really disappointing here.

I have to say though if we're not finished with

Spoiler

the Hand

, then I'm done with the Netflix shows.

 

[LotusHD]

Spoilering what? We're in the Spoiler thread....

But Defenders honestly was worse than even Iron fist.

Lol nah, the other Defenders being in this show alone makes it better than IF.

 

[TheGreatDirector]

Maybe they could only afford 6 episodes of Signourney phoning it in.

All that fine dining and high quality music she listened to adds up.

 

[ryseing]

Maybe they could only afford 6 episodes of Signourney phoning it in.

With how cheap everything looked this would not shock me in the slightest.

.

This is the untagged thread m8. That's the reason I'm in here. I need to complain without bars everywhere.

 

[kunonabi]

Has there ever been a bigger downgrade from Sigourney Weaver to Elodie Yung in the main villain role of a season of television? Because while Sigourney isn't great she's still far above whatever the fuck Yung is trying to do.

What a stupid fucking show. I thought the first half was OK but the endless exposition and terrible acting from 3/4 of the cast wore me down.

And just a reminder- Chernobyl was caused by the discovery of dragon bones underneath the site. BECAUSE OF COURSE.

Also looked more "networky" if you understand what I mean. Definitely looked cheaper than the preceding shows.

Honestly Yung and the way she is written is probably the most frustrating thing going on in the Netflix shows right now. Claire's writing is worse but at least they she doesn't take up as much damn time and hasn't sunk two whole seasons.

 

[ryseing]

Also, Luke, buddy- THE HAND IS AN ORGANIZATION OF MURDEROUS NINJAS. BRING THE FUCKING SKY DOWN ON THEM.

Honestly Yung and the way she is written is probably the most frustrating thing going on in the Netflix shows right now. Claire's writing is worse but at least they she doesn't take up as much damn time and hasn't sunk two whole seasons.

At least EY says Matthew in a kinda cool way.

MAFFEW

Oh yeah, Claire's writing is terrible as well. The letters in prison crap...

And Henwick is awful, though that's more her than the writing. Still, goddamn these folks need to learn to write female characters.

Considering Sig sucked as the main villain, I didn't find it to be that bad of a downgrade, pretty much little changed, since she kept siccing Elektra on people anyhow, now Elektra's simply in charge.

Every moment where the camera is on Sig delivering boring exposition is a moment where EY isn't looking dazed and confused. I'll take the former.

 

[LotusHD]

At least she says Matthew in a kinda cool way.

MAFFEW

I do love how she says it...

Honestly Yung and the way she is written is probably the most frustrating thing going on in the Netflix shows right now. Claire's writing is worse but at least they she doesn't take up as much damn time and hasn't sunk two whole seasons.

No, this time around she shares the blame with both the awful Hand and Alexandra. Actually I like her a lot, it's the stupid Hand subplots that keep ruining everything.

 

[kunonabi]

Also, Luke, buddy- THE HAND IS AN ORGANIZATION OF MURDEROUS NINJAS. BRING THE FUCKING SKY DOWN ON THEM.



At least EY says Matthew in a kinda cool way.

MAFFEW

Oh yeah, Claire's writing is terrible as well. The letters in prison crap...

And Henwick is awful, though that's more her than the writing. Still, goddamn these folks need to learn to write female characters.

What, you didn't love the writers dedicating two whole scenes to Claire and Colleen talking about how amazing and important each other is.

back to Elektra, Sadly, the accent is all she has. Take that away and she has no presence or charisma at all. Hell, the actress who played young Elektra left more of an impression than she does.

 

[ryseing]

What, you didn't love the writers dedicating two whole scenes to Claire and Colleen talking about how amazing and important each other is.

back to Elektra, Sadly, the accent is all she has. Take that away and she has no presence or charisma at all. Hell, the actress who played young Elektra left more of an impression than she does.

"You're the foundation!" "You save just as many lives as they do!"

Fucking what? You're both stranded at the precinct for two episodes for a reason.

I'm getting angrier the more I think about this garbage.

And agreed. I love EY's accent, but so much of the climax of ep.8 depends on her trying to show any sort of chemistry with Cox and it just doesn't work. Of course Cox himself has to sell bullshit lines about the light and the dark so it's just bad on all sides.

 

[VeeP]

At least we got to see Matt kick Danny's ass, and the other people?

Shit, should've just made Murdock the Iron Fist.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Stopped in the middle of episode 5. Feels like Iron Fist corny. Episode one with it's spinning camera made me hold off watching episode 2 for a day or so, and now episode 5 with it's continuation of silly events made me roll my eyes. I felt like I should just watch the rest at a later date, when I wasn't interested in doing anything else, after the dudes who had a cornered Iron Fist, Luke Cage, and injured Coleen pulled a Batman vanishing while Luke had his eyes on them the whole time.

Maybe Marvel is just growing old for me. I didn't care much for Guardians 2, and I doubt I'll like Infinity War. Panther could be up in the air though.

 

[kunonabi]

Stopped in the middle of episode 5. Feels like Iron Fist corny. Episode one with it's spinning camera made me hold off watching episode 2 for a day or so, and now episode 5 with it's continuation of silly events made me roll my eyes. I felt like I should just watch the rest at a later date, when I wasn't interested in doing anything else, after the dudes who had a cornered Iron Fist, Luke Cage, and injured Coleen pulled a Batman vanishing while Luke had his eyes on them the whole time.

Maybe Marvel is just growing old for me. I didn't care much for Guardians 2, and I doubt I'll like Infinity War. Panther could be up in the air though.

If there is one Marvel film that deserves a chance it's Black Panther. That cast and crew is ridiculously stacked.

 

[LotusHD]

If there is one Marvel film that deserves a chance it's Black Panther. That cast and crew is ridiculously stacked.

Thor too. Cast is not nearly as stacked, but seems damn different compared to previous films.

 

[ryseing]

If there is one Marvel film that deserves a chance it's Black Panther. That cast and crew is ridiculously stacked.

Thor 3 The Dark Thorening has Goldblum and Thompson. I'll be there day one for it and Panther but I think I'm out of fucks to give for Infinity War and anything beyond that.

Strike that. If Zendaya is the second lead in the Homecoming sequel I'll watch. I liked her chemistry with Holland.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

They did the 90s beat-em-up "enemies jumping onto the big moving elevator you're riding" thing

 

[kunonabi]

Thor 3 The Dark Thorening has Goldblum and Thompson. I'll be there day one for it and Panther but I think I'm out of fucks to give for Infinity War and anything beyond that.

Strike that. If Zendaya is the second lead in the Homecoming sequel I'll watch. I liked her chemistry with Holland.

Thompson does nothing for me and I really don't like her for Valkyrie but yeah the rest of that cast is great.

The new Spider-Man films are the only things I'm outright skipping.

 

[Costanza-san]

Just finished. I certainly enjoyed the show but they really have some work to do if they want to try this again.

I can't get over how bad some of the fight scenes were. Episode 7's sticks out to me, the camera work and everything about it was just embarassing. It blows my mind how we went from something like Daredevil S2's hallway/stairwell fight to this shit.

 

[sappyday]

While it had a lot of flaws, I still enjoyed it

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

Finished this. It's teetering between bad and okay for me. A lot of this shit was boring and I think that young Hand member that Colleen fought couldn't act. There were short bursts of where I thought something was good like Foggy and Matt hugging, Iron Fist releasing that shockwave, but yeah very few. Unlike Iron Fist where I could pick out specifically how these scenes could be better, it's hard for me to pin exactly where the problems lie and how they could've been fixed. Well, I do know that Wu-Tang that came on during the final fight was out of place and I would've done without the Luke Cage rap and R&B things.

This had the same people working on it from Daredevil Season 2 right? It is a little surprising given that, but The Hand was the worst part about that season, but I was still entertained through the whole thing. It may be that the writers and directors don't know how to handle The Hand well or how to write each of these supes together or something else entirely. I'm just disappointed that my initial reactions were true.

I am mildly interested to see what this Nun thing is about with Daredevil and if Misty ends up getting a bionic arm.

Pretty sure the only thing she gained by becoming the black sky is super strength it seems, and I assume all the members of the hand are the same, threw me off when I saw that Luke was getting hurt by the African warlord when Danny needed the iron fist to hit him, but then considering Gao is super strong too I assume they all are due to chi or whatever they learned in kun lun

I didn't watch all of Iron Fist so I didn't realize she had super strength just from Daredevil I knew she had hands.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

I didn't watch all of Iron Fist so I didn't realize she had super strength just from Daredevil I knew she had hands.

Except for the episode of Iron Fist that RZA directed, where she used the force push once, she was pretty much just a helpless old lady for some reason. I was pretty glad she suddenly remembered that she had powers in this.

They really needed to spend some more money on CG and have Sigourney doing Geese Howard supers.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Who do think teleported Matt before the building collapsed?

Anyways, the motivations of the villains seem super inconsistent. The want to go back to Kun Lun but the wall was only a door to the substance deposit. And how was Elektra able to get to Kun Lun and kill everyone?

Yeah, I'm confused how the leaders couldn't get to Kun Lun but the foot soldiers could. If the plan was to go to Kun Lun, why kill everyone then come back. If the plan was to steal shit from Kun Lun, why kill everyone there and not steal shit.

There's no way this was the plan all along.

What, you didn't love the writers dedicating two whole scenes to Claire and Colleen talking about how amazing and important each other is.

back to Elektra, Sadly, the accent is all she has. Take that away and she has no presence or charisma at all. Hell, the actress who played young Elektra left more of an impression than she does.

My favourite thing about this show is Matt and Claire don't talk once. Like what the fuck is that about?

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

They did the 90s beat-em-up "enemies jumping onto the big moving elevator you're riding" thing

I thought that was just Super Double Dragon. What other games have this?

 

[brickarts295]

For a brief second I was almost expecting Danny in his Iron Fist costume at the end. I don't know why I keep disappointing myself.

T_T

 

[Pancho]

Finished it last night, I enjoyed it. But as others have said here, the show does feel cheap. It was specially noticeable on that last episode. That horrible green screen on the elevator, my god

 

[SneakersSO]

I mean, its obvious the writers have a problem dealing with the various characters and their powers. There is little to no consistency to the powers on this show & how they interact with the various plot elements presented.

Take Luke Cage. We see on multiple occasions just how strong & impervious to harm he is. Heck, one of the opening scenes of Luke Cage is a guy getting his fist broken trying to punch him in the face. And yet, even with that, when he fights The Hand members he is barely more capable than a henchmen? Seeing Elektra basically toy with Luke was a joke, especially cause the show just never even tries to take the time & explain how these people can affect Luke Cage to the degree by which they do - its not like he's Superman who is weak against magic. This is the sort of thing that deserves a scene, not the sidekicks basically having a scene to pep each other up for being on the sidelines.

The fact that Elektra could basically beat up on Luke, and then at the same exact time get pretty messed up in a fist fight with Matt, who is the most 'human' of the group, speaks volumes as to just how inconsistently written the show is. I get it - Matt needed to be the hero of the day; he basically was doing Iron Fist's job, minus the glowing hand.

These characters & their powers could have very engaging stories built around them. They just completely failed to really acknowledge that. There didn't need to be multiple Power Rangers-esque fight scenes where 2 characters who have super human strength are fighting human henchmen and they are still getting back up after getting hit. I don't need to see another scene where Iron Fist is clenching his fist & shaking his hand like he's charging Mega Man's mega buster - just have the fist activate. Its like the writers are afraid to actually have the main cast be powerful because it would just trivialize any threat, but at the same time the show doesn't really have any stakes outside of Matt/Elektra.

 

[TheCowboyPoet]

Just finished it. I liked it! Though it could have been better.
Ok so, I really liked both seasons of Daredevil, Jessica Jones, and Luke Cage. I thought Iron Fist was a little meh over all. I will agree that there was a points in DD S2, JJ, and LC where they were stretching to fill the 13 episodes. That's what I found so frustrating about Defenders. We had to spend two episodes till everyone met. I can't help but think some of that setup could have gone in those other shows so Defenders could get moving a little quicker and the standalone shows would have had some more going on.
For as much as I liked it there was some weirdness... did they not once acknowledge that they all happened to know Claire? What are the chances four very different New Yorkers who all happen to be super heroes would have a friend in common? Yes she did introduce Luke and Danny to each other but I can't help but feel her being the link between everyone could have helped move things forward. Or at least an acknowledgement. When did Claire realize Matt was involved?
Also I can't help but feel New York's own personal superhero team could have had their final battle in a better New York place than a whole in the ground.
That said I liked the interactions between the characters. I felt Siggy was a bit of a waste so I was kind of relieved when she was gone. Any scene with Stick was great. Mike Coltier plays really well in a group and I hope we get to see more crossovers going forward for just that reason. Even Danny was less awful when other heroes were present.
Speaking of which, weren't they teasing a DD/JJ crossover episode at some point? I thought there was a video where she gets a business card for Matt's lawfirm? Has that just been forgotten?

 

[Cade]

Oh, and to echo some thoughts/etc. in here, I thought for sure they were setting up an Alfred-dressed-as-Batman / Black Panther: Man Without Fear thing after Foggy said "They have to see you leave as a lawyer." I was expecting someone else to dress up as DD and be seen with Matt to throw off suspicion, and then at the end when Matt whispered something to Danny I'm like ohhh shit he doesn't want people to realize DD and Matt disappeared at the same time, he's asking Danny to be Daredevil for at least a while.


Nope. I was 100% expecting that rooftop shot to be of a person in the Daredevil costume whose fist then lit up.

Then ten seconds later they show Matt alive anyway (which I get they had to because DDS3, but..)

 

[RedAssedApe]

Lol at them zooming in on sticks hand

 

[Sadist]

I really laughed when Matt puts on his costume again before entering Midland, Jessica looks at him and saying "Oh, there it is again"

So, yeah, it was mostly okay, fun at times, but not the best Netflix thing. Waaaaay better than Iron Fist.

- Iron First being the focus of the Hand and him being the key to something was kind of disappointing. You know, as a group/villain I like the Hand, but I dunno, in the MCU they are portrayed pretty clumsy. Not every member: I think Gao is an excellent villain, Murukami seems threatening as well, but Alexandra, Sewano and (ugh) Bakuto are really flat or just plain boring. Especially the latter. Fuck that guy.

- Still, I see some folks being all confused (why can Luke be hurt by Hand people!?), but its been pretty clear since the beginning that the fingers posess great abillity because they were former students of K'un-Lun. That was pretty clear to me, but maybe thats comic logic and I understand that shit even if it doesn't make any sense.

- So, the essence is Dragon bones huh? Makes sense. But to live for so long... yikes. Wonder how many times the Fingers were brought back.

- Iron Fist/Danny Rand is better in this than his own series, but he's still pretty boring. I know everything is a bit more serious, but I would have liked to see dorky Danny. Now he's spouting " I'M THE IMMORTAL IRON FIST" every now and then which makes me groan so hard. I wished after the first time mentioning this, he'd lighten up and say "I'm Iron Fist and I can punch really, reeeaaaallly hard". But I think the writers make him look that way too, so I blame the writers. I do however like that they're building a friendship between him and Luke, so thats one of the few things that worked.

- Jessica Jones might have been the best part of the series: she is fun, rude and doesn't pull her punches. I like that. Plus she had some funny scenes, especially with Matt. Those two together actually cracked a few funny jokes. "I have proof, photo's of you being all Daredevil" *Matt smashes camera* I also like the scene where she takes the homeless's dude beer. Luke and Matt are all "the fuck Jess" and she doesn't give a fuck.

- Luke is good. Very okay.

- Matt was fun too. Not as emo as he was in DD S2, but just the right amount of brooding loner he can be. Plus, he kicked Danny's ass, always kudos for that particular thing.

- I really hate what they did with Elektra. She wasn't that good in season 2 of DD and in Defenders she is equally meh. Though I have to give her credit for that episode 6 plot twist. That was good and unexpected. Everything else? No, I don't care for her one bit.

- Out of the supporting cast, Stick was the best. He chopped of his own hand to get the fuck away; thumbs up. Had a few great scenes too.

- The other supporting cast? Pretty terrible. Especially Colleen and Claire; the entire time convincing "oh we are strong and help out as much as we can" every time they get some screentime. Give it a rest. Foggy and Karen weren't much better either.

So overall, I enjoyed my time with the series; I hope Punisher will be better.

 

[NimbusD]

With how cheap everything looked this would not shock me in the slightest.



This is the untagged thread m8. That's the reason I'm in here. I need to complain without bars everywhere.

yeah my bad I missed that haha. Im a dumb dumb.

Spoilering what? We're in the Spoiler thread....



Lol nah, the other Defenders being in this show alone makes it better than IF.

Yeah that's what makes it worse, it's entirely dissapointing on almost all levels. Iron Fist... I didn't exactly have high expectations going in.

 

[crayman]

What part of the Hands plan involved destroying New York? I feel like there were a bunch of scenes where they talked about that - but nothing in their overall plan seemed like it would cause that. Maybe I wasn't paying attention.

 

[L00P]

Just finished it. I didn't like it. The Hand is an awful villain. none of what they are doing make any sense. Couple that with the fact that their motivations are directly tied to Iron Fist and his bs just makes the whole thing stupid. I just don't buy the ancient war for new york or whatever at all. They won't shut up about it, but I just can't help but not give a fuck. And nothing really came from it. I was really looking forward to the defenders teaming up and wreck some shit, but it's a shame that the big bad was poorly conceived. Also, terrible fight scenes

and my god, Danny is such a dumbass. I find him to be very unlikable because he keeps doing stupid shit like being flat out unreasonable and pouty. Plus he got baited into punching that shit the bad guys were trying to open. How did this idiot beat a dragon?!? Worst Defender EVER

I didn't mean to rant, was just incredibly disappointed is all

 

[KarmaCow]

Why was there even that "debate" over whether or not to blow up the building? I could understand if it was about the potential fallout of dropping a god damn skyscraper in the middle of a city (of which there was none anyways) but it wasn't even really that. The conversation seemed to going over the beaten into ground debate of if they would kill the villains, but even more half-assed than before and at the worst time. Luke even makes them say at the end that they were not going to hurt innocent people and they all seemingly begrudgingly agree. What the fuck was that, why did that need to be said especially as some closer to the scene?

What part of the Hands plan involved destroying New York? I feel like there were a bunch of scenes where they talked about that - but nothing in their overall plan seemed like it would cause that. Maybe I wasn't paying attention.

I thought it was more that they didn't care that harvesting the dragon bones for their magic juice would cause parts of New York to collapse rather than an intended goal.

 

[Einchy]

Why was there even that "debate" over whether or not to blow up the building? I could understand if it was about the potential fallout of dropping a god damn skyscraper in the middle of a city (of which there was none anyways) but it wasn't even really that. The conversation seemed to going over the beaten into ground debate of if they would kill the villains, but even more half-assed than before and at the worst time. Luke even makes them say at the end that they were not going to hurt innocent people and they all seemingly begrudgingly agree. What the fuck was that, why did that need to be said especially as some closer to the scene?

I'm pretty sure I saw them throwing some henchmen down there hole later on, too. So they kinda stopped giving a fuck.

 

[eizarus]

Why was there even that "debate" over whether or not to blow up the building? I could understand if it was about the potential fallout of dropping a god damn skyscraper in the middle of a city (of which there was none anyways) but it wasn't even really that. The conversation seemed to going over the beaten into ground debate of if they would kill the villains, but even more half-assed than before and at the worst time. Luke even makes them say at the end that they were not going to hurt innocent people and they all seemingly begrudgingly agree. What the fuck was that, why did that need to be said especially as some closer to the scene?



I thought it was more that they didn't care that harvesting the dragon bones for their magic juice would cause parts of New York to collapse rather than an intended goal.

It makes me sad that I don't want to watch a single episode of this show. And I made it through 4 seasons of Arrow!

 

[Figboy79]

I finished Marvel's The Defenders earlier today, and I forgot to do a post about my thoughts on it. I didn't plan on doing a full review, but ended up writing way more than I intended to. Wall of text warning!

First things first, I was, overall, disappointed in the season. I loved the first two Seasons of Daredevil. I loved Season 1 of Jessica Jones. I loved Season 1 of Luke Cage. None of those shows are perfect, and not every episode was white knuckle engrossing, but as a whole, they told compelling, entertaining narratives, with flawed, intriguing protagonists and layered and complex antagonists.

Then Iron Fist happened. Regardless of my thoughts on the tight rope of cultural appropriation and the "white savior complex" trope inherent in the premise, I've always liked Iron Fist as a character from the few comics I saw him in, and his character in the lighthearted and hilarious Ultimate Spider-Man animated series. I think Danny Rand is fun, charming, determined, loyal, and an all around good dude. It's a shame that none of those endearing characteristics made its way into the oppressively boring Season 1 of Marvel's Iron Fist. I stand by Finn Jones being horribly miscast as Danny Rand, but I put a lot of the additional failings of Iron Fist Season 1 on the writers and showrunners, who failed to craft a compelling narrative around a premise that feels incredibly old hat at this point (Arrow, Doctor Strange, and even Iron Man all draw from a similar fountain of inspiration), but also failed to create a protagonist that the audience gave a hoot about.

The show runners had a chance to do something fun and different with Danny Rand. Something that would set him apart from the brooding Matt Murdock, emotionally damaged Jessica Jones, and the stoic Luke Cage. Instead, they crafted a character that was as bland and uninteresting as the countless boardroom scenes and slow as molasses plot that was its first season. Unlike the previous Netflix Marvel shows, after finishing Season 1 of Iron Fist, I felt no desire to watch another, or see Danny Rand ever again. At least, this interpretation of him.

This brings me to The Defenders. I was looking forward to this season, primarily because I couldn't wait to see more of Matt Murdock, aka Daredevil, Jessica Jones, aka, uh, Jessica Jones? and Luke Cage aka, Power Man. As I said before, I loved those characters in their individual series, and I was excited to see them interacting with one another, like a tv version of Marvel's Avengers. After Iron Fist, I felt a bit of trepidation concerning his involvement in The Defenders.

My hope was that they would either fix his character, reduce his presence in the series, or he would somehow have excellent chemistry with the other three actors, and it would all work out in the end. Boy howdy was I wrong. The Defenders could have very well been called "Iron Fist Season 2," as the entirety of the plot revolves around Danny Rand, his friend and sidekick, Coleen Wing, and how incredibly important he is to the machinations of the Hand, a mysterious shadow organization whose presence has been felt in both big and small ways in the previous 5 seasons of this Marvel Netflix Cinematic Universe.

Because of this, Danny, or conversations about Danny, permeate the entire season. When he is on screen, his character is a petulant man-baby whining about why the other characters don't realize how special and important he is, and when he isn't on screen, the other characters are talking about how special and important he is, but how they aren't happy about it. Matt, Jessica, and Luke feel like they were shoehorned into this plot because Marvel really wanted a small scale Avengers project, and Daredevil, Jessica Jones, and Luke Cage were just too well received to not continue to strike while the Iron was hot.

Defenders also felt like a desperate attempt to make us like Danny Rand, and care about the Iron Fist. Unfortunately, we still don't. Danny is still in the same place he was at the end of Season 1 of Iron Fist as far as his character growth goes. He doesn't improve, or learn a valuable lesson, or comes to a greater understanding of his Iron Fist powers. He's still the same man-splaining know-it-all who somehow manages to screw up everything he does, and the lives of the people he comes into contact with as he was in Season 1 of his own show.

And Coleen Wing. My god. I know Defenders was shot prior to the filming of Iron Fist Season 1 (despite taking place AFTER the events of Iron Fist Season 1), but Coleen feels like a completely different character. The assertive, confident, capable, no nonsense martial arts master we saw in Season 1 of Iron Fist has been replaced by a self-doubting, self-loathing, crybaby. She is literally bursting into tears in almost every scene she is in. Or getting her ass handed to her by nameless goons of the hand. And most of her other scenes are with Claire Temple, aka The Night Nurse, and they revolve around how upset she is that she can't be good enough to help Danny.

The season isn't all bad, however. Jessica, Luke, and Matt have great chemistry with one another, and I loved the scenes they had together. Sigourney Weaver, Scott Glenn, Wai Ching Ho, and the remaining sidekicks (Foggy Nelson, Claire Temple, Karen Page, Malcolm Ducasse, and Misty Knight), are all wonderful and their scenes together are the most interesting and entertaining to watch.

It's unfortunate that the albatross hanging around the neck of the plot is Danny Rand. I simply didn't care if the Hand succeeded in using him for whatever nefarious purposes they had, and I didn't want to see him take up so much screen time. Whenever Karen, or Foggy, or Misty would show up, the scene would instantly improve. Krysten Ritter is fantastic as the horribly underutilized Jessica Jones (her main purpose seems to be to say sarcastic one liners and act rude to everyone she meets; so, classic Jessica Jones, I guess), and Charlie Cox continues to be the best live action Matt Murdock/Daredevil we've ever had, but my hopes of a fun, buddy cop "Heroes for Hire" series featuring Luke Cage and Iron Fist were dashed, as Mike Coulter and Finn Jones just don't have a spark.

With that said, they do share one little scene over dinner that I felt had potential for the two to play off of each other, but the writers immediately undercut it shortly after, as Danny's momentary bout of personality and charm completely evaporated because reasons, I suppose. I kind of want to buy a bunch of Iron Fist and Heroes for Hire comics and ship them to the Netlix offices and the writers room. Maybe they should have watched Ultimate Spider-Man while it was still on Netflix.

I'm disappointed because I really wanted to like The Defenders. My favorite characters were still great, but they felt pushed to the sidelines in favor of a show that was trying so hard to get us to give a shit about Danny Rand. The first four episodes of the show were a drag, and felt disjointed, or parts of much more interesting storylines that were cut short in favor of setting up how special the Iron Fist is. The latter four episodes were an improvement, but it was still hamstrung by the weakest link of the cast, that unfortunately happens to be the one character the entire premise and plot of the season revolves around.

I'm still eagerly awaiting Daredevil Season 3, Jessica Jones Season 2, and Luke Cage Season 2, but I think I'm going to stay far away from anything with Iron Fist as a featured player. I can't say I'll be anticipating Defenders Season 2 with the same excitement I did for Season 1.

But hey, The Punisher looks pretty awesome, right?

 

[DeathyBoy]

I'm still eagerly awaiting Daredevil Season 3, Jessica Jones Season 2, and Luke Cage Season 2, but I think I'm going to stay far away from anything with Iron Fist as a featured player. I can't say I'll be anticipating Defenders Season 2 with the same excitement I did for Season 1.

Iron Fist S2 is being showrun by the former Sleepy Hollow showrunner. That's an upgrade.

 

[Sadist]

Oh yeah, Misty losing her arm is a nice nod.

We're another step closer to Heroes for Hire.