Jesus why is the RAM such a point of contention for you people? The RAM in both Orbis/Durango will be magnitudes larger than what was in PS360. Proelite might be saying Devs will complain about ports etc. but I'm not quite convinced until we even get final specs on everything before hand. Everyone calm down.
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Rumored Chinese Forum Xbox720 specs: 8CoreCPU,8GB,HD8800GPU,W8,640GBHDD
- Thread starter ekim
- Start date
Proelite
Member
4GB of GDDR5 will be more than enough for Sony First Party. In all likely hood, everything will be a repeat of this generation spec wise, including the Wii U being totally out classed.
Sony First Party games will look the best. Third party ports will have issues on Orbis. Just like old times.
Will they be more joint-ventures with regular developers they have worked in the past or will they also be partnering with new developers (Sounds obvious, but the job listing sounds like more regular folk they have been working with).
Bookmark this:
According to the rumour, almost 2GB of that 8GB RAM are reserved for the OS.
if that's true, then there is no competition here, 4GB GDDR5 > 6GB DDR3.
if somehow (noway in hell) the entire 8GB could be used for gaming then i honestly dont know.
RukusProvider
Banned
Team mentality in a nut shell.
My team is doing something different than the other team. I'll fight on to prove that my team's approach is better.
Proelite
Member
So Orbis has no OS?
Runs on DOS
Maximilian E.
AKA MS-Evangelist
Well, most obvious Touché I seen in quite a while..
Iacobellis
Junior Member
Nope. Sony had to cut costs somehow.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Really?
PS3: 22GB/s for RSX
360: 22GB/s system RAM to GPU, 32GB/s from GPU to eDRAM and 256GB/s eDRAM.
You should not be 100% certain about anything that takes place in the future regarding people you don't speak for.
Why would they have issues? If anything, both machines are potential unbalanced
Orbis has super fast ram but possibly not enough of it to feed the GPU
Durango has lots of ram but maybe too slow to feed all of it to the GPU
Maybe Multiplatform stuff has lower res textures on orbis, but not much more. Critical will be how much ram is used up by the OS on orbis.
6GB available for games on Durango vs 4Gb on orbis seems pretty close.
But if orbis needs eg 1Gb for the OS, then it's 6GB vs 3GB and the differences might be more noticable.
512mb/1GB of slow DDR3 are dedicated for the OS.
bookmark this too.
Karak
Member
Ram will always be a point of contention for 3 reasons.
1. It makes a very unique and defining mark on the hardware it exists in.
2. Numbers don't mean what they appear to mean with ram. Add edram or esram and you have even more shady bits.
3. Developers use ram in different ways for their games and that has caused there to be a difficult judging point to be established that is tenuous at best.
The most IMPORTANT thing about ram isn't even the speed rating. It is the configuration. Ram that appears slower can be in configurations that eat up that penalty and vice a versa.
Think a dev can't use 6 gigs of ram for a game? Give them 6 gigs and watch them figure out a way.
Fast ram is awesome.
Slow ram could be awesome.
Tons of ram could be awesome
Tons of ram could go wasted.
It matters far less what kind and far more how it is used effectively by the OS, then the devs in their engine.
Though I don't have a dog in this particular fight. I don't see complaints coming from devs in either side. Just different ways they will choose to work around them.
EDIT: Actually devs will always screw something up. So I expect some complaints on both sides as well as. This is amazing on both sides
Whatever the FINAL configuration actually turns out to be.phosphor112
Banned
Damn. That even burned me.
Gemüsepizza
Member
They could use 512MB additonal, stacked LPDDR2 RAM like Vita has. I find it hard to believe that Sony would suddenly go from 50 MB to 1000 MB reserved RAM for their firmware - especially when this is ultra-expensive GDDR5 RAM. For the Xbox on the other hand it would make sense somehow to have a big amount of RAM reserved, if those rumors about Windows 8, apps and all those additional functions are true.
infinityBCRT
Member
1. Go look at Far Cry 3 or Sleeping Dogs on PC
2. Yes of course they'll have to target the lower spec boxes for a certain amount of time, but this way you get a gradual evolution of your ecosystem instead of hard stops every 5-8 years and then having to blow everything up and restart on scratch. Not to mention you'd also avoid waning interest like at the end of this generation.
Proelite
Member
Yeah the whole debating and fighting over systems that aren't even reality is getting a bit much. I imagine things will get even more retarded around here once both systems are revealed. =/
This is very unlikely to happen.
RukusProvider
Banned
Gemüsepizza;46560147 said:
Sony will not want to be left behind on the services front. If you pay attention to Kaz, all he wants is a unified service platform. For this platform, they need a delivery mechanism as the flagship. That'll be the PS4.
They will really need to focus on the OS and software/services side of the box. They will need to make sure the system is scalable for market agility. Out of all the leaks that could be accurate, 3GB of OS reserve for Durago will really make Sony think about what MS could be wanting to do with that.
If you want a simple gaming only box, stick with PC. The next gen consoles will be all about software and services independent of gaming.
Proelite
Member
Sure, I'll go two for two.
BruceWayneIII
Member
Cell to XDR bandwidth has been answered already, but do you remember 360 CPU to memory bandwidth?
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Well if we want to cherry pick a single interface, why not the 256GB/s eDRAM. Hell Major Nelson had done so officially for MS.
http://majornelson.com/2005/05/20/xbox-360-vs-ps3-part-4-of-4/
Seems Ms thinks they had the advantage in bandwidth (they really did).
[11MB/s up and down] Bandwidth is most important for GPUs and rendering, hence all the high end PCs with DDR3 for the CPU and GDDR5 for the GPU. Why are people throwing CPU memory bandwidth out, cheap points?
Oh, nice!
Oh, wait. Deanos is a junior member. Was I mixing him up with that nina theory guy..?
As others have said, look how much programmers can do with games using the limited memory of the 360/PS3, and compare how much memory the same games need on PC, just to run at minimum recommended spec.
That said, the next Xbox will have at least 4GB memory because at least 2GB will be needed for the OS, Kinect 2 and all the future things that gamers apparently will want (augmented reality?). The GPU will have it's own memory just the same as on PC because that's the best way of doing things and the consoles will want to get as close to high end PCs as they can.
That said, the next Xbox will have at least 4GB memory because at least 2GB will be needed for the OS, Kinect 2 and all the future things that gamers apparently will want (augmented reality?). The GPU will have it's own memory just the same as on PC because that's the best way of doing things and the consoles will want to get as close to high end PCs as they can.
On the money on this one I say. The other we shall see.
infinityBCRT
Member
Adults are targets too now. The Xbox is used more for a media box than a gaming box! My brother used to be a gamer but he literally has not played a real game outside of the NHL games since like Fallout 3. Still, I see him on the Xbox every day using stuff like Netflix.
And this model doesn't preclude them from doing something like this:
2013 - 1st gen Xbox3 is $350
2014 - 1st gen Xbox3 is $280
2015 - 1st gen Xbox3 is $220, 2nd gen Xbox3 is $350
Insane Metal
Member
Uhm, what?
in my opinon its very likely to happen, especially when 1Gb DDR3 chip price is below the 2$ mark.
Proelite
Member
I would placed a ban bet on the DDR3 crap if ban bets were allowed on Gaf. Perma ban bet.
BruceWayneIII
Member
I only asked for the complete picture - don't put words in my mouth, thank you.
XtremeXpider
Member
Yes, bandwith is not an issue, and I'm sure DDR3 in Durango is there for some reason, MS is not fool, I guess MS talked to devs before deciding size and type of ram.
This should help:
I don't think Kinect will really use anything unless they plan to have the OS Kinect enabled while playing games. If an application or game uses the device, it will come at a cost, however if it's not being used, there should be no additional cost for the device. No different than this gen pretty much.
BruceWayneIII
Member
Interesting
I think there's scope for either machine as described to have issues of one degree or another with a game vs the other depending on the shape of that game.
But I don't think multiplat games will be hinging themselves around the highest common denominator of any one system's components. Particularly when the lowest common denominator is a decent jump on its own*
(*Although the lowest common denominator for a while on this front might be targeted PC min requirements...)
Personally hoping Chinese boy comes through then it gets real fun. I can imagine this scenario could play out for a long time next gen if the ddr3 is right.
systemfehler
Member
I don't think money is really the issue in that case but overall board complexity and design choices.
TheGreyHulk
Member
speed of ram does not equate to qty of ram
if you really need 1gb of ram to store data, you're not going to be able to store that amount with 512mb of faster ram.
they may be able to do some streaming to get by for certain things, but if you're creating a super large persistent world that requires a large amount of ram, having half of that ram available would mean they'd have to find a way to cut it down to fit in a finite amount of space.
it's like saying you have train A that can carry 1000 people max @ 100mph and train B that can carry 500 people max @ 200mph. Train B may be able to get there faster, but they're still limited at having 500 people on board
Insane Metal
Member
Regarding DDR3 in Orbis. It doesn't really make sense having 4GB of GDDR5 in the console since it's more expensive, and waste some of it with the OS. Maybe what some 'insiders' have claimed here (some stuff were close, others were off) is exactly regarding that? Maybe 4GB of GDDR5 for games and 1 or 2GB of DDR3 for the system OS? Or maybe 2GB of GDDR5 and 1 or 2GB of DDR3?
shinobi602
Member
*sniff*
Ahh, console wars. Just like old times.
Ahh, console wars. Just like old times.
Was it ever explicitly said that they were going with GGDR5 (well I guess nothing has been explicitly said so far)? I thought most people just assumed it was GDDR5 considering the bandwidth is so high. What if Sony is actually going for stacked RAM (DDR3) like they did with the Vita? Didn't one of the first articles on SA say something about stacking?
Kung Fu Grip
Banned
You see this is what i was worried about. Who cares about fast/slow RAM, more is better.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46442918&postcount=192
Things can still change right? No way sony lets MS have that much RAM advantage.
Glorified G
Member
Unless you're a dev working with the hardware directly you shouldn't say this so confidently.
I doubt you could blanket statement all ports yeah. Obviously, if a dev writes a huge multiplayer/open world game that really likes 4+GB of memory.. there will be some concessions made in the PS4 version. That is of course if any of these total memory rumours are true at all.
Punkster_NY
Member
thanks for the info kind sir. : )
You see this is what i was worried about. Who cares about fast/slow RAM, more is better.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46442918&postcount=192
Things can still change right? No way sony lets MS have that much RAM advantage.
No point having 8GB to store fantastic models and textures in, and a GPU that can spit out millions of polys per frame, if the memory can't actually transmit that much between them due to lack of bandwidth.
There is a balance to be had as always.
Can Crusher
Banned
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