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[Nirolak]

The PS3s were likely put out alot earlier as the probably restock in alphabetical order:

...Kindles, Lionel Richie CDs, Norton Anti-Virus Software, Macs, Olympus Cameras, PlayStations, Quickbooks, Roombas, Sennheiser Headphones, Thermador Refridgerators, Ultrabooks, VTech V.Readers, Wii Us, XM Car Radios, Zune MP3 Players.

If you're going to make a pretty crazy argument, it's helpful if you at least try and make sure your entire example has the order of the alphabet correct.

 

[Pachterballs]

wiiU might be a bit more powerful than x360/ps3 but its marginally more powerful at best - with clockspeed bottlenecks - and its 7 years later. so; yeah. Gahiggdhy... try harder.

still too expensive to bite. I'll wait til LOZ or pikmin3.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

Very pleasant. All we have to go on as of now are launch ports. Did anything of the caliber of Uncharted 2 or 3, Killzone 2 or 3, Gears, or Halo 4 show up on the platforms this early?

Uh yeah, Gears of War came out holiday 2006 and was clearly superior to anything not on a PC. You're not going to see a technical masterpiece on the Wii U next year that blows every other game out of the water.

Edit: And sorry for calling you stupid, didn't mean that. I just wasn't sure if you were being serious.

 

[Gahiggidy]

Here, I dug up the actual quote I was thinking of (from an E3 Analyst Meeting seperate from the annual investor's one):

Q 11-1 I was hoping to get some more details about the hardware, so in other words, the processing power and the GPUs. There’s been a lot of speculation about the power of the Wii U relative to current generation consoles or what may be coming down the pipe. I don't know if you can comment on this, but I would appreciate any details you might be able to provide about the relative power to 360 or PS3, or some other benchmark, to give us a sense of its capabilities other than the HD graphics.
A 11-1

Iwata:

Of course, because we have designed a new hardware system, we are using new technology and we are using new GPUs.　But as we have to devote significant costs to the Wii U GamePad, if we were to apply the same level of enhancement that other console manufacturers shoot for to the processing power component, the Wii U would become extremely high in price, and it would not be affordable.　In other words, we think that the way that the various console manufacturers are allocating their budgets to the hardware is different from the way that we allocate our budget to the hardware. Ultimately, we’re looking to maintain a price point for the Wii U that is reasonable in comparison to the value to be offered.

There is also another differentiation point here. While existing platforms have engines that development teams have tuned and optimized for six to seven years after their respective launches, the Wii U is a new platform that has slightly different architecture and, since development teams have only just begun development on software for it, they are only at the halfway point to utilizing its full potential. Despite this fact, however, if you look at the game “Assassin’s Creed III,” which was recently announced or shown, you can’t see much difference when you compare it with games for other companies’ systems. I hope that helps you to understand a little bit better.

Source: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/120606qa/05.html

 

[netBuff]

Unless it turns out that developers are already at the limit of what they can spend on games and it turns out to feel basically the same as this gen with slightly higher res textures.

Maybe you should actually play on PC from time to time: The difference is staggering. AA, higher resolutions, anistropic filtering, tessellation, practically no pop-in, short loading times, stable framerates - all things that make a huge difference.

Here, I dug up the actual quote I was thinking of (from an E3 Analyst Meeting seperate from the annual investor's one):


Source: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/120606qa/05.html

So basically Iawata said that it's pretty much on the level with current generation consoles.

If you're going to make a pretty crazy argument, it's helpful if you at least try and make sure your entire example has the order of the alphabet correct.

That has to be a joke post

 

[BrokenEchelon]

Uh yeah, Gears of War came out holiday 2006 and was clearly superior to anything not on a PC. You're not going to see a technical masterpiece on the Wii U next year that blows every other game out of the water.

I'm sure there's some amount of power they can eek out of the system, especially when someone actually dedicates time to a game for the thing. I do agree with what you said earlier about devs essentially treating it as a port machine of PS4/720 games.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

So basically Iawata said that it's pretty much on the level with current generation consoles.

Reread it. Clearly you are missing the part where Iwata stakes his personal honor on the Wii U being a much more powerful system.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

Here, I dug up the actual quote I was thinking of (from an E3 Analyst Meeting seperate from the annual investor's one):


Source: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/120606qa/05.html

Still doesn't help your argument, he's just saying it's on par with current gen offerings. You actually furthered my point.

 

[velvet_nitemare]

Unless it turns out that developers are already at the limit of what they can spend on games and it turns out to feel basically the same as this gen with slightly higher res textures.

Even if games come out with higher res textures, 1080P and locked 60fps, that's already head and shoulders above whats currently available. That's a very low bar though, and there will be always be devs that go all out to make a pretty game. Sony and MS need a showcase game, and they will fund it if they have to. Gears of War was that game last time round, first time i saw gameplay vids i knew nextgen had arrived.

 

[Tmdean]

Still doesn't help your argument, he's just saying it's on par with current gen offerings. You actually furthered my point.

He said current games are on par and they're only halfway to using the full potential of the system.

 

[BlackJace]

Uh yeah, Gears of War came out holiday 2006 and was clearly superior to anything not on a PC. You're not going to see a technical masterpiece on the Wii U next year that blows every other game out of the water.

Edit: And sorry for calling you stupid, didn't mean that. I just wasn't sure if you were being serious.

I'm not arguing for a technical masterpiece. I'm saying that with ACTUAL EFFORT put into a first party title, we'll see games that shouldn't have to be disputed whether or not its "next gen" or not.

Keep in mind, not every title released for the 720 and PS next will be mind blowing masterpieces either.

 

[UncleSporky]

Maybe you should actually play on PC from time to time: The difference is staggering. AA, higher resolutions, antistropic filtering, tesselation, practically no pop-in, stable framerates - all things that make a huge difference.

I've got a good quality PC that I game on all the time and I don't feel like I've entered a new generation at all.

I guess I'm not the type to turn up the AA and bloom and be all "WHOAAAA THIS IS SO RADICAL."

I notice the step up from PS2 gen but it's been a blur since then. You have brand new games that are technically competent on everything with fantastic lighting but everyone has a crew cut and their faces are plastic and cartoony with dead eyes. Or you get a game with super realistic people but simple buildings and crates look shoddy and the animation's all janky. We're at the point where it's about how much devs are willing to spend on every little aspect of the graphics, not the power of the hardware.

It's tough to look at any given scene and honestly answer "what could be better about this?" More debris? More realistically-rendered foliage? Physical pebbles and grit instead of bump-mapped? Would it make a difference to me?

Even if games come out with higher res textures, 1080P and locked 60fps, that's already head and shoulders above whats currently available. That's a very low bar though, and there will be always be devs that go all out to make a pretty game. Sony and MS need a showcase game, and they will fund it if they have to. Gears of War was that game last time round, first time i saw gameplay vids i knew nextgen had arrived.

Hah! Never, except on PC.

 

[Pikma]

Why does every U thread always ends like this, with people talking about specs or comparing line ups?

Also, anyone that says Nintendo Land is just "another mini game collection" or calling it a mediocre game has probably no idea of what the game is all about. Like those people who called it a PS HOME rip off (lol), it's like shitting on a game just for the sake of it, the game is surprisingly very good.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

I'm sure there's some amount of power they can eek out of the system, especially when someone actually dedicates time to a game for the thing. I do agree with what you said earlier about devs essentially treating it as a port machine of PS4/720 games.

Oh there's no doubt that the Wii U can have better looking games but I don't think devs are going to spend the time and money, especially when third party games sell like crap on Nintendo systems. It makes more sense to reuse assets and save money. We already saw this mentality on the Wii.

 

[polyh3dron]

Here, I dug up the actual quote I was thinking of (from an E3 Analyst Meeting seperate from the annual investor's one):


Source: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/120606qa/05.html

That quote doesn't refute my point. It may be a GPU using new technology and therefore are more efficient in performance per watt and all that, but its graphical power is still roughly equivalent to that of a 7 year old console.

 

[outunderthestars]

Not to be "that guy" but the thread is more about the lack of demand for the Wii U rather than the lack of power within the Wii U.

 

[Gahiggidy]

...



So basically Iwata said that it's pretty much on the level with current generation consoles.

No, that's not what I gathered from that explanation. With the AC III example, he is saying with only 50% of the hardware's power being tapped, its already matching what the PS3 and 360 can do. That sounds like a "midway" generation machine to me.

----

Speaking of Nintendoland, there are places where that game is technically very impressive (at least to my eyes). Comparing it to PS3/360 games reminds me of the improvement Dreamcast visuals had over the best N64 games.

 

[5amshift]

I think this is the price they should have launched at. One sku with Nintyland bundled @ $299

I 100% agree. Would have sold tons immediately.

 

[netBuff]

He said current games are on par and they're only using half the power of the system. Not that I agree with him.

That's not what Iawata said at all. "they are only at the halfway point to utilizing its full potential" refers to the fact that there is still further optimization to be done. The comparison to AC3 is supposed to tell the audience that the Wii U is capable of achievements at least similar to 360/PS3 with a potential for better visuals as further optimization potential is discovered.

No, that's not what I gathered from that explanation. With the AC III example, he is saying with only 50% of the hardware's power being tapped, its already matching what the PS3 and 360 can do. That sounds like a "midway" generation machine to me.

You are reading this stuff far to literally.

 

[Coolwhip]

I can't tell if you're trolling or dumb

With you its pretty clear.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

He said current games are on par and they're only halfway to using the full potential of the system.

My point is that we heard this same bs in 2006 but nobody took advantage of all this supposed extra horsepower

 

[Gucci Messiah]

With you its pretty clear.

opinion you don't like = trolling

Sound reasoning. Nice avatar.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

No, that's not what I gathered from that explanation. With the AC III example, he is saying with only 50% of the hardware's power being tapped, its already matching what the PS3 and 360 can do. That sounds like a "midway" generation machine to me.

I really don't take statements like that as meaningful. They're "halfway to understanding how to utilize it." I understand that the insinuation is that better software will come with a better understanding, but the actual number seems flimsy and meaningless. Will performance indeed come to be twice as good? How does one arrive at that figure? Where are we at in completely understanding how to optimize software for the 360?

 

[netBuff]

I've got a good quality PC that I game on all the time and I don't feel like I've entered a new generation at all.

I guess I'm not the type to turn up the AA and bloom and be all "WHOAAAA THIS IS SO RADICAL."

I notice the step up from PS2 gen but it's been a blur since then. You have brand new games that are technically competent on everything with fantastic lighting but everyone has a crew cut and their faces are plastic and cartoony with dead eyes. Or you get a game with super realistic people but simple buildings and crates look shoddy and the animation's all janky. We're at the point where it's about how much devs are willing to spend on every little aspect of the graphics, not the power of the hardware.

It's tough to look at any given scene and honestly answer "what could be better about this?" More debris? More realistically-rendered foliage? Physical pebbles and grit instead of bump-mapped? Would it make a difference to me?



Hah! Never, except on PC.

If you don't notice the horrible dithering, pop-in and framerate problems that plague many current consoles titles, I can't help you. More power will greatly aid developers in creating cleaner visuals, and might actually decrease development costs in some aspects.

Nintendo isn't the industry's saviour by selling a low-powered machine.

 

[Dark-Cloudz]

Nintendo Land is a SIXTY DOLLAR GAME?

Have you played it?!? It's brilliant. I took back Mario and found ZombiU pretty boring, But Nitnendoland? Awesome.


Pretty sure you haven't played it.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

I'm not arguing for a technical masterpiece. I'm saying that with ACTUAL EFFORT put into a first party title, we'll see games that shouldn't have to be disputed whether or not its "next gen" or not.

Keep in mind, not every title released for the 720 and PS next will be mind blowing masterpieces either.

Okay but who is going to put in that effort? Who did it on the original Wii?

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Have you played it?!? It's brilliant. I took back Mario and found ZombiU pretty boring, But Nitnendoland? Awesome.


Pretty sure you haven't played it.

Again, it's important to note that mileage will vary. I haven't played it as much as some, but I don't think it's anything special. I had some fun, but I certainly haven't discovered the magic that some have found within it.

 

[outunderthestars]

I still think one of the biggest mistakes Nintendo made was putting out demo kiosks that only allow you to play Rayman. How do you put out a demo kiosk that doesn't let you play any of the games your system is actually launching with?

 

[velvet_nitemare]

Hah! Never, except on PC.

Notice how i was just using that as an example? Devs sacrifice performance for improved visuals, and i'm noting that if next gen allows them to release games that look a bit better with improved performance that would already be vastly superior to what we have now.

 

[Tmdean]

No, that's not what I gathered from that explanation. With the AC III example, he is saying with only 50% of the hardware's power being tapped, its already matching what the PS3 and 360 can do. That sounds like a "midway" generation machine to me.

I don't think that's what he meant. He meant that they are only halfway to the optimization required to use to the full potential. i.e. if a lazy direct port uses 80% of the system, halfway optimized would be 90% utilization, and fully optimized would be 100% utilization.

If he really meant that developers are only using 50% of the power of the system, I think that's an exaggeration.

 

[Duckhuntdog]

So basically Iawata said that it's pretty much on the level with current generation consoles.

I don't believe that is what Iwata is saying. Or at least what you think Iwata is saying.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

Not to be "that guy" but the thread is more about the lack of demand for the Wii U rather than the lack of power within the Wii U.

This is true, sorry for the derail haha

 

[vctor182]

Sooooooo....who's getting this deal?

 

[Dark-Cloudz]

Again, it's important to note that mileage will vary. I haven't played it as much as some, but I don't think it's anything special. I had some fun, but I certainly haven't discovered the magic that some have found within it.

That I understand. But lambasting it because it is 60 Dollars is surely bannable. They guy has no clue, and probably didn't play it.

 

[netBuff]

That is not at all what he is saying. But looking at your post history, I doubt you would have taken his statements in the proper context.

Seems like you are the one not taking the quote in its proper context - would you kindly quote me anything that isn't taken out of context that refutes my statement?

Reading your post history, I know full well why you are trying hard to misunderstand the statement given.

 

[UncleSporky]

Nintendo isn't the industry's saviour by selling a low-powered machine.

This here, why do people do this? Nobody has said anything about this. It's completely out of context of anything. I mean, I guess straw man, maybe?

 

[Gahiggidy]

I really don't take statements like that as meaningful. They're "halfway to understanding how to utilize it." I understand that the insinuation is that better software will come with a better understanding, but the actual number seems flimsy and meaningless. Will performance indeed come to be twice as good? How does one arrive at that figure? Where are we at in completely understanding how to optimize software for the 360?

I dunno, it remains to be seen. I remain hopeful and actually expect to see visuals on par with the Bird and Zelda tech demos by year two of the console's lifespan.

 

[BlackJace]

Okay but who is going to put in that effort? Who did it on the original Wii?

I'm not sure you've noticed, but Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3 surprised a lot of people in terms of what they thought the Wii was capable of. Still doesn't hold a candle to what the HD Twins produced, but again, effort was put it, and it showed.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I'm not arguing for a technical masterpiece. I'm saying that with ACTUAL EFFORT put into a first party title, we'll see games that shouldn't have to be disputed whether or not its "next gen" or not.

I'll be delighted to be proven wrong, but honestly, I'm not expecting anything that will blow away the 360/PS3 and be unarguably "next gen" even from unannounced first party stuff. I'm expecting stuff that may arguably look better, or be a marginal improvement. But I'm not expecting anything that knocks our socks off and has people going "Oh yeah. Now that's what I'm talking about. No way you'd see anything that looks nearly this good on the 360!"

 

[Coolwhip]

I dunno, it remains to be seen. I remain hopeful and actually expect to see visuals on par with the Bird and Zelda tech demos by year two of the console's lifespan.

Retro game!

 

[Bukana]

It's still too much.

 

[outunderthestars]

That I understand. But lambasting it because it is 60 Dollars is surely bannable. They guy has no clue, and probably didn't play it.

No. I think it gets at one of Nintendo's problems with the Wii U launch: Explaining the value of the system and games.

They spent hundreds of thousands of dollars creating demo kiosks, but then didn't even make Nintendoland a playable demo. From the outside, Nintendoland looks like another minigame collection that the Wii had a glut of. It's not consumers' faults for failing to perceive it as anything more when Nintendo themselves has not done anything to help.

 

[polyh3dron]

I dunno, it remains to be seen. I remain hopeful and actually expect to see visuals on par with the Bird and Zelda tech demos by year two of the console's lifespan.

Dat amnesia. Remember the GameCube tech demos?

 

[jmdajr]

Surprised to see "add to cart"

 

[Gucci Messiah]

I'm not sure you've noticed, but Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3 surprised a lot of people in terms of what they thought the Wii was capable of. Still doesn't hold a candle to what the HD Twins produced, but again, effort was put it, and it showed.

So are you going to sit here and try to tell me those couldn't have run on the Xbox with negligible differences? Come on man, people thought they were impressive looking for Wii games, which isn't saying much.

 

[BlackJace]

I'll be delighted to be proven wrong, but honestly, I'm not expecting anything that will blow away the 360/PS3 and be unarguably "next gen" even from unannounced first party stuff. I'm expecting stuff that may arguably look better, or be a marginal improvement. But I'm not expecting anything that knocks our socks off and has people going "Oh yeah. Now that's what I'm talking about. No way you'd see anything that looks nearly this good on the 360!"

You yourself said YMMV, so some people will feel that way and some will not. Highly unlikely for stuff on par, even close to, but maybe somewhere around there Idk.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

Dat amnesia. Remember the GameCube tech demos?

Mario 128

 

[UncleSporky]

Dat amnesia. Remember the GameCube tech demos?

I don't, other than a crappy looking Zelda game. Which ones surpassed all games released for the system?

 

[polyh3dron]

Mario 128

I'm specifically referring to the Link/Ganondorf demo.

Twilight Princess didn't look anywhere near as good as that.

 

[vagabondarts]

I don't want to invest in a new system that may or may not get the games on it I like again.
My confidence in NOA is shaken enough with 3DS, let alone a whole separate platform.

Juggling the portable and console infrastructures seem to be too much for Nintendo to handle anymore.

Once there's more games I'm interested in or account based purchasing, I'll give it a serious look. Until then, I'll just read what all of you have to say about it.

Maybe I'm not the only one?
Also the marketing message in North America was a disaster.

When PS4 and the next Xbox launch, it will be WiiU's time to prove itself.