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Cross The Line - Sexual Assault... ok, maybe just Sexual Harassment!

B

Busaiku

Member
Lazy vs Crazy said:
Right on cue, Marn chimes in.
https://twitter.com/#!/MarnORZ/status/174941555734491136
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I don't know about a mass migration, but in Spooky's case, he made this clear long before Cross Assault started.
He stated in a Big Two 2-4 weeks ago that he was having major problems with Twitch (it was constantly going down during the events and whatnot) and he is looking towards moving towards Own3D.

It has absolutely nothing to do with Jared.
 
MrSaltyPringles

MrSaltyPringles

Member
Busaiku said:
His statement about the sexual harassment was addressing how people get all vulgar when someone like Phoenix (back in Vanilla MvC3 days) was getting beaten.
People would yell obscenities like "rape that bitch", "fuck her up", "chickenhead", and so on, referencing Phoenix (cause everyone hated the character's broken nature).

This is not towards any players, male or female, but a character.

It's stated in the articles, but it's something that people have ignored.
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But remember fan-service sells!!! And why Jared really cares for this really. Does he want virtual characters to have human rights? or something?
 
Z

zlatko

Banned
Lazy vs Crazy said:
I've been reading, and I don't remember where, that he got in touch with at least the destructoid and giant bomb guys. And the ars article, well, Jared did and interview for it, and the way it reads, it seems like he initiated contact.

As for baiting Aris, Jared basically picked a fight with him. Just watch the video. "Starcraft is so much better than you guys. Why can't you be more like them? You are all just a bunch of kids. Grow up." And then Aris, who is under a ton of stress from being on a reality show for a week, tries to argue back.
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Oh ok yeah that's what you meant for the baiting. I guess I can see that, but also it's up to Aris on how to respond to a to a shot like that. It would've been wiser to just take shots at the SC2 community, or at jared if he wanted to.
 
T

TheFightingFish

Member
faceless007 said:
I confess I find the defensiveness of those acting like the media is just being sensationalistic and unfairly judgmental toward the fighting game community perplexing. This isn't a one-time occurrence that got out of hand and it isn't a problem restricted solely to fighting games. It's a problem endemic to the gaming community as a whole, and even more broadly much of our current mass media, and it should be pointed out and reported on where it occurs in order to bring awareness to it. If you don't like the way it makes your community look, direct your attention to the people acting that way, not the media for reporting it.
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Yeah, kinda reminds me of racism at European soccer matches. Sure it's just a minority causing the real trouble, but the implicit acceptance and the "rally the wagons" attitude of the community as a whole doesn't really help matters. If you are embarrassed about the community getting painted with the "women hating, crude, teenagers" brush then you might want to consider a little more carefully what streams, communities and personalities you watch / endorse that keep those stereotypes going.
 
wolfmat

wolfmat

Confirmed Asshole
I really welcome community leaders like sp00ky speaking out against this. And I agree that Aris doesn't have to be expelled from the FGC as a result. I think he's sincere in his apology.

Of course, I'm saying this from an external viewpoint.

Fugu said:
I'd like to know what you mean by this.
Click to expand...
They smoked crack in a high-pressure chamber.
 
O

obonicus

Member
Lazy vs Crazy said:
I've been reading, and I don't remember where, that he got in touch with at least the destructoid and giant bomb guys. And the ars article, well, Jared did and interview for it, and the way it reads, it seems like he initiated contact.

As for baiting Aris, Jared basically picked a fight with him. Just watch the video. "Starcraft is so much better than you guys. Why can't you be more like them? You are all just a bunch of kids. Grow up." And then Aris, who is under a ton of stress from being on a reality show for a week, tries to argue back.
Click to expand...

Why is it that people defending Aris talk as ifhe just absolutely cannot control his tongue and that this is something we should overlook? Before it was people saying that stream monsters that made him say what he said on day 1, now you're saying that Jared made him say that thing about sexual harassment? You're not making him seem any better -- if anything, he comes off worse.

The dude said what he said. He wasn't baited into making dumb statements, and he should own up to them. What he's said is 100% on him.
 
C

CountBlack

Member
ProfessorCharlesWebster said:
@Toronto tourneys nobody swears really IMHO maybe we Canadians are just nice naturally
3AQmK.gif
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Which toronto tournaments have you been to recently? Maybe we've met or played before? Toronto FGC is pretty clean I must admit
 
L

Lazy vs Crazy

Member
obonicus said:
Why is it that people defending Aris talk as ifhe just absolutely cannot control his tongue and that this is something we should overlook? Before it was people saying that stream monsters that made him say what he said on day 1, now you're saying that Jared made him say that thing about sexual harassment? You're not making him seem any better -- if anything, he comes off worse.
Click to expand...

Oh no doubt what he said on day 1 was totally unacceptable. He was completely out of line and he should have been stopped then and there.

But what he said to Jared, I'm a little more understanding of it, just because of the situation he was in. He was under a ton of pressure, on camera 10 hours a day, coaching a losing team. Bottled up in a single room, not allowed outside contact. And then this guy starts telling him that his entire community is terrible, and more insults. So he tries to defend himself, and he says something completely stupid. And yeah, it was completely stupid, and wrong, and he shouldn't have said it. But it isn't like it happened in a vacuum. He was under a ton of pressure, and he was attacked, and he freaked out attempting to defend himself.
 
P

PsychoSoldier

Banned
Lazy vs Crazy said:
What's really getting me here is Jared. He's really coming off as an opportunist here. He's on record as not liking how the Spooky/IPW streams run, and he basically baited Aris into saying what he said. Then he gets in contact with all these people in the gaming media, and these articles about how the community is terrible go up.

I really don't like the guy.
Click to expand...

If you listen to the Bombcast that deals with the initial stages of this (or read his article), he says that a reader (don't remember name but it definitely wasn't Jared) sent him the tip about what was going on.

Plus, considering Jared's position I doubt he'd be silly enough to show the negative part of an event that I believe they may have sponsored.
 
L

Lost Fragment

Obsessed with 4chan
obonicus said:
Why is it that people defending Aris talk as ifhe just absolutely cannot control his tongue and that this is something we should overlook? Before it was people saying that stream monsters that made him say what he said on day 1, now you're saying that Jared made him say that thing about sexual harassment? You're not making him seem any better -- if anything, he comes off worse.

The dude said what he said. He wasn't baited into making dumb statements, and he should own up to them. What he's said is 100% on him.
Click to expand...

People have said time and time and time and time again that they're not defending or excusing Aris, but Jared baiting a member within the community who's well known to not know when to hold back so he can contact his journo friends with some juicy soundbytes so he can further his own personal vision for where he wants the FGC to go is skeevy as fuck.

If that is indeed what happened. But it's all hearsay and for as much as there's just something about Jared that's always rubbed me the wrong way, I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt and I don't think the conversation about him is really productive until something tangiable actually points in that direction.
 
F

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
marn is trolling. Spooky is leaving TwitchTv due to technical and revenue issues.
 
W

Wallach

Member
Lost Fragment said:
People have said time and time and time and time again that they're not defending or excusing Aris words, but Jared baiting a member within the community who's well known to not know when to hold back so he can contact his journo friends with some juicy soundbytes so he can further his own personal vision for where he wants the FGC to go is skeevy as fuck.

If that is indeed what happened.
Click to expand...

Baiting? Aris is the one that butted into that conversation as I recall. Jared was talking to Haunts.
 
MrSaltyPringles

MrSaltyPringles

Member
CountBlackule said:
Which toronto tournaments have you been to recently? Maybe we've met or played before? Toronto FGC is pretty clean I must admit
Click to expand...

Been to TXII and a couple of A & C tourneys last year as a casual player but now i'm just levelling up my game for Toryuken... if only college would leave me alone ^^"
 
R

Rice-Eater

Member
Lazy vs Crazy said:
Oh no doubt what he said on day 1 was totally unacceptable. He was completely out of line and he should have been stopped then and there.

But what he said to Jared, I'm a little more understanding of it, just because of the situation he was in. He was under a ton of pressure, on camera 10 hours a day, coaching a losing team. Bottled up in a single room, not allowed outside contact. And then this guy starts telling him that his entire community is terrible, and more insults. So he tries to defend himself, and he says something completely stupid. And yeah, it was completely stupid, and wrong, and he shouldn't have said it. But it isn't like it happened in a vacuum. He was under a ton of pressure, and he was attacked, and he freaked out attempting to defend himself.
Click to expand...

I'm not choosing a side in that debate, but that wasn't the situation. Jared was doing his own live stream and giving his own thoughts on how he feels things need to change and move forward. Aris could hear him from where he was at and started insulting Jared before interrupting him and then the rest is history.
 
F

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
Wallach said:
Baiting? Aris is the one that butted into that conversation as I recall. Jared was talking to Haunts.
Click to expand...
Yup. And lets not forget that Aris said 'this guy is so gay' when Jared was talking with haunts.
 
O

obonicus

Member
Lost Fragment said:
People have said time and time and time and time again that they're not defending or excusing Aris words, but Jared baiting a member within the community who's well known to not know when to hold back so he can contact his journo friends with some juicy soundbytes so he can further his own personal vision for where he wants the FGC to go is skeevy as fuck.
Click to expand...

Right, but there's no evidence of this, so all we have is people making personal attacks against him because they don't like him personally.

What we do have now is some dude saying that Aris was baited into the juiciest quote in this whole debacle. People keep using 'pressure' as an excuse, but what does that even mean? Does Aris acquire tourette's when under pressure? Or are you telling me that he just let us all know how he really feels, when his guard was down?
 
B

Busaiku

Member
In all honesty though, people really need to be more mature about the whole Jared situation.
Whether or not you agree with his views on how the FGC should or shouldn't be, he is not a bad guy.

Yes he would like things to change, but he wasn't deliberately trying to make anyone look bad.
He may not like how those people behave, but he probably doesn't want them to incur any harm/abuse.
 
Z

zlatko

Banned
ProfessorCharlesWebster said:
Wait what!!!!!! What other streaming service will he be in now?
Click to expand...

own3d. which to be honest is not a downgrade, they are probably even, but he will have to deal with new issues on the intial switch if he goes that route.

Or maybe he'll go the youtube route now that that avenue is available for folks like Gootecks and Mike Ross. It's probably a good idea as last night's CC stream was really good from youtube imo.
 
D

d0c_zaius

Member
ProfessorCharlesWebster said:
Wait what!!!!!! What other streaming service will he be in now?
Click to expand...

its on this page

edit: damn super redundant post.

Busaiku said:
I don't know about a mass migration, but in Spooky's case, he made this clear long before Cross Assault started.
He stated in a Big Two 2-4 weeks ago that he was having major problems with Twitch (it was constantly going down during the events and whatnot) and he is looking towards moving towards Own3D.
Click to expand...
 
L

Lazy vs Crazy

Member
obonicus said:
Right, but there's no evidence of this, so all we have is people making personal attacks against him because they don't like him personally.
Click to expand...
I'm just going by what I read, and what I saw. I don't know the guy and I'm not judging his character. I'm just questioning the way he's acting in this situation.

If he didn't contact any of these journalists, great, my bad and I'll gladly admit I was wrong.
 
V

Veal

Member
If only all reality programming caused it's viewers to examine themselves critically. Thank you sp00ky for always stepping up!
 
I

IpKaiFung

Member
zlatko said:
own3d. which to be honest is not a downgrade, they are probably even, but he will have to deal with new issues on the intial switch if he goes that route.

Or maybe he'll go the youtube route now that that avenue is available for folks like Gootecks and Mike Ross. It's probably a good idea as last night's CC stream was really good from youtube imo.
Click to expand...

Own3d also pay more in ad revenue and also pay on time. Whatever the platform is he chooses I'll still watch his stuff. The streaming platform used is largely irrelevant to me.
 
C

Corky

Nine out of ten orphans can't tell the difference.
Much love to Spooky for doing what he does and keeping us entertained.

Brrap brrap!
 
Wolfe

Wolfe

Member
ElFly said:
Aris basically represented what the people watching the stream wanted to do, and saw no problem doing super creepy stuff because he was asked to. He is so immersed in this culture that being sexist doesn't seem wrong to him. He probably thinks he is not sexist, and even there are people on gaf who will tell you he is not sexist.

This is the most basic kind of behaviour that the kiddy question "Would you jump off a bridge if your friends did it" tries to prevent.

That's the skewed vision of the world that Aris and the people who watch the show share.
Click to expand...

That doesn't make it any less wrong...
 
Z

zerokoolpsx

Member
Sp00ky said:
I see a lot of discussion in here. I don't really have in interest in talking about this issue publicly because although this happened at Cross Assault, this is more of an issue of people and less of an issue about the show. this just happened to happen at cross assault, but it happens all the time, all over the world.

Aris and Miranda are both very kind, very real people. They were placed into a super high tension situation, and both cracked under pressure.

The main point and issue here is that comments made by Aris added to her tension and pressure. Since those early comments, he apologized to her directly many times, and genuinely seemed concerned for what he had done. His own stress accumulated over the course of the show, and looming over his head the entire time was this issue as well, which im sure added to it. Even he did not realize the scope at which he would be vilified for his comments until we discussed them being talked about on major sites.

Before I continue I would like to point out that yes, there are a lot of OG players with an OG mentality. You could call that an 'old guard' but that isn't really the truth. these guys just enjoy Fighting Games and want to continue enjoying them, and all aspects of why they enjoy them, including the gritty, competitive atmosphere they remember facing in the early days when they first began playing competitively.

What Aris did was wrong. He has sincerely apologized both to Miranda and publicly on Twitter. This is a harsh life lesson for him, someone who enjoys his own uncensored nature, to realize just how bad his words and his egging someone on can hurt another person. In a sense this is about "growing up". and Yes, the scene is growing up, as much as people do not believe it. But it will take a long time for the scene to really come together and understand what growing up is all about. Lessons like this are ones that will need to be learned, so people can see their mistakes and recover from them.

Last year around this time, I made some very controversial statements about evo and level up, which I am sure a lot of you guys remember. though at the time that was how I felt, afterwards i really realized the damage my statements had caused, and I apologized sincerely. It seems to me my apology was accepted, as I was allowed to be a part of the team for evo that year.

All I am saying here is yes Miranda was hurt by what Aris said, but we need to give Aris a chance to recover from this lesson. this is not about removing the R-Rated nature of the FGC, because that to me appears to be unnecessary and is not in my current plan for any of my big events. However it is about also knowing how much damage your words can do to both a person's mind and heart, and also to the scene.

I hope that we can stick together, and all learn this lesson together. Sexual Harassment is a bad thing, and much like things like stealing, & murder, is just in some people's human nature and can never be completely stopped. However if we can make it so people understand both sides I think that will help. Everyone has their own opinions about life and the world, and I do not want to censor their opinion, rather I would like to inform them of the pain a harsher type of thing like harassment/bullying can do to another person, so that perhaps they can understand and change.

I guess this was wordy and not every expressive in the end. Even I have made sexist remarks at times, but over time I've learned to be more sensitive to women, and hopefully others will too. and if they dont choose to, that is their prerogative, but at the least keeping those views private to their own following and not the general public can help.
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Totally agree with you Spooky. What Aris said made him look bad. Lost some respect for him.

Already getting my daily dose of LoL from own3dtv, but if Spooky streams there. No reason to really see twitch anymore.
 
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