• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

DC Extended Universe |OT3| A League of Academy Award Winners

shingi70

Banned
I missed that conversation about Heroes of Color yesterday but to add my two cents in.

I think it's totally true that Heroes of color get unfairly treated for being boring compared to their white counterparts. People Rag on Miles Morales and John Stewart get crapped on for being Boring when dudes like Barry Allen and Hal Jordan have gotten by with being cardboard for the longest time.

As far as looking at Black DC Heroes off the top of my head. There aren't many Bad Black heroes but ones that are misused.

John Stewart I'm a. If fan of from growing up with DCAU Justice League cartoons. His big story is killing Mogo, but as much as people dislike him, dude has a unique perspective as a superhero and as Green Lantern being a former boots on the ground marine.

Black Lightning - I love me some Jefferson Pierce, Dudes getting a television series so we probably won't see him in the dceu anytime soon. Like Clark Kent I love the duality where Jefferson probably does more good in the long term as a teacher than he ever will as Black Lightning.

Martian Manhunter - He technically counts I guess. I'd love a Martian Manhunter film, you can do so many things with him at this point. In the same way Wonder Woman is a period pierce id love to see a series of films each one in a different era with Manhunter taking on a different persona. My ideal take would be something in the 60s and very stylish like new Frontier. A take on spy and alien stories from him.

Cyborg - Anyone who says Cyborg is boring or not interesting simply lacks imagination. He's a disabled African American Man who not only fails from one of the engineering power houses of the world, but lives in one of the most diverse yet segregated city/states in the country that's going through a massive upheaval of the issues of racial gentrification.

Cyborg is quite frankly one of the most relevant characters right now. He's the run the gambit of Technology and the singularly, fatherhood, blackness, and disability.

Victor Stone is a great buddy comedy character but most of that is too deflect from his internalized feelings of doubt and self worth. He's someone who has his humanity raised in question multiple times, and that was before he got the robot parts.

Plus theirs something classically tragic of a black man from mo town thinking he has no soul.
 

Raptor

Member
I love Snyder style will always do but imo bvs was not his triumph, Watchmen is and he still has to surpass that.

That said i think im the only blindly hyped for JL and Im sure will be superior to bvs.
 

Damn, they grab his hot take about it becoming a franchise from the latest Heroes, but leave out his opening statement that he respects a fellow critic, but doesn't believe for a second Gal Gadot is actually good in the movie?

I legit closed the tab when he said it. You'd think someone over there would call him out on it, but I guess he's like the co-boss for video content so I can see why people let him rant and rave about her.
 

ReiGun

Member
That's not 100% true, he also casted Gal Gadot, which according to reviews was a great thing.

But Honestly, Im not really living for this constant bringing up of Snyder by people who dislike him and support him. Its not something that can be painted as the actions of 'snyderites', cause a number of critics are doing it as well. This is Patty's work, I wish everyone would just focus on her and her team. That's its.

This won't happen as long as people continue to act as though movies are made by either one person or by studios who pluck them from the ether rather than being the result of the actual creative talent doing the work.

Blaming any lacking quality non-Synder films on Synder's involvement (regardless of how involved he may have actually been) or on the sheer fact that they are DC films under the WB umbrella is a lot easier than judging each film based on the merits and decisions of their individual creative teams. The latter requires a bit more thought; the former just needs to be repeated enough that it becomes a meme and no one really questions it.

Though I'll say Gaf handles it better than most places.
 

Ninjimbo

Member
A lot of the jokes would go straight over childrens' heads. C'mon.
I'm just going by what I saw in trailers and I wasn't really laughing all that much. It was cute, but nothing about it told me I needed to ever watch it. Some friends told me the movie was really good if you're a Batman fan since there's a lot of cool references. That info kind of piqued my interest a little, but my mind is on other things.
 

Cyborg has tons and tons of potential, for all the reasons you listed. I just have no idea if DC/WB would go that route. And it's not that I don't think Cyborg can carry a solo movie, I just think turning it into a Titans movie is a safer bet, which would make WB feel better. Though with the Titans t.v. series coming, that may not even be an option.
 

ReiGun

Member
I didn't really understand Cyborg's push until I started spending more time with kids at my job. Kids growing up on "Teen Titans Go!" right now love Cyborg. Us old heads can bitch and complain all the live long about this character or that character not getting his spot, but as far as marketability to current audiences goes, Cyborg far outpaces most other minority characters in DC's stable. Yes, that includes John Stewart. Unfortunately, he's tied to the Green Lantern brand, which WB is hesitant to touch again post the 2011 movie.

The only other character with the same potential as Cyborg is probably Blue Beetle. And to DC's credit, they have tried to really push Jaime to the forefront in their cartoons and video games. Unfortunately, he hasn't really had that one breakout incarnation. Further, his powers might be too difficult to realize in the DCTV universe, so he doesn't really have that avenue either.
 

shingi70

Banned
Cyborg has tons and tons of potential, for all the reasons you listed. I just have no idea if DC/WB would go that route. And it's not that I don't think Cyborg can carry a solo movie, I just think turning it into a Titans movie is a safer bet, which would make WB feel better. Though with the Titans t.v. series coming, that may not even be an option.


True, Titans would be a Safer Bet and could work to bring in that Legacy Aspect to the DCEU.

I didn't really understand Cyborg's push until I started spending more time with kids at my job. Kids growing up on "Teen Titans Go!" right now love Cyborg. Us old heads can bitch and complain all the live long about this character or that character not getting his spot, but as far as marketability to current audiences goes, Cyborg far outpaces most other minority characters in DC's stable. Yes, that includes John Stewart. Unfortunately, he's tied to the Green Lantern brand, which WB is hesitant to touch again post the 2011 movie.

The only other character with the same potential as Cyborg is probably Blue Beetle. And to DC's credit, they have tried to really push Jaime to the forefront in their cartoons and video games. Unfortunately, he hasn't really had that one breakout incarnation. Further, his powers might be too difficult to realize in the DCTV universe, so he doesn't really have that avenue either.
.
I'd argue Firestorm and Shazam have the potential to make it vig. Firestorm is getting a small push right now in fact.
 
I always thought Cyborg's push was based on the popularity of TT and TT Go. That seems to be the incarnation most people are familiar with - hell, he even has a BOOYAA! line in Injustice 2.
 
I always thought Cyborg's push was based on the popularity of TT and TT Go. That seems to be the incarnation most people are familiar with - hell, he even has a BOOYAA! line in Injustice 2.

I think that's where most people know him from. I'm only 27 and my first Cyborg relates media was TT. I'll also be bummed if Cyborg doesn't say Booyah in JL hahaha
 

shingi70

Banned
I always thought Cyborg's push was based on the popularity of TT and TT Go. That seems to be the incarnation most people are familiar with - hell, he even has a BOOYAA! line in Injustice 2.


It mostly is, the show was popular as hell and in the new Go Incarnation Cy and Beast Boy are the most popular characters.


The major reason it hasn't translated to comics is the same reason why Carol Danvers has them. No actual talent or priority is put on the book.
 
I didn't really understand Cyborg's push until I started spending more time with kids at my job. Kids growing up on "Teen Titans Go!" right now love Cyborg. Us old heads can bitch and complain all the live long about this character or that character not getting his spot, but as far as marketability to current audiences goes, Cyborg far outpaces most other minority characters in DC's stable. Yes, that includes John Stewart. Unfortunately, he's tied to the Green Lantern brand, which WB is hesitant to touch again post the 2011 movie.

The only other character with the same potential as Cyborg is probably Blue Beetle. And to DC's credit, they have tried to really push Jaime to the forefront in their cartoons and video games. Unfortunately, he hasn't really had that one breakout incarnation. Further, his powers might be too difficult to realize in the DCTV universe, so he doesn't really have that avenue either.

On younger audiences liking Cyborg from his Teen Titans cartoon iterations, it's hard to make any judgements from seconds of JL footage where he seems serious. Deborah Snyder talked about how Cyborg and Flash are the younger fun characters. And Ray seems like type of dude who could get away with saying booyah. So who knows.

Cyborg in the DC animated movies and Injustice games is dry next to his Teen Titans characterization.
 

ReiGun

Member
True, Titans would be a Safer Bet and could work to bring in that Legacy Aspect to the DCEU.
I think the only reason Titans is a "safer" bet is that no one really knows how to write Cyborg as a solo character. The version of him that people fell in love with from TT and TTG is never seen once he's out on his own.

In those shows, Cyborg is a fun loving goof who is also incredibly intelligent, fiercely determined (if a little lazy), competitive, and very charming in his own way. He is aware of - even saddened by - his status as half machine. But he isn't weighed down by it and it isn't all that he is.

This allows him to have stories that don't even touch on Vic being a cyborg or treat it like it's no big deal. See the episode in original TT where Cyborg leaves the team to lead Titans East because he wants to be his own man and step out of Robin's shadow or the episode in TTG where he and Beast Boy argue over whether to eat hamburgers or burritos in increasingly ridiculous ways. He even has romantic partners in both TT and TTG (Bumblebee and Jynx respectively), who don't even broach the issue of him being half robot.

Unfortunately, we've yet to see that kind of care and thought put into his character in the comics. Now it's all about the "Man or Machine" stuff or about his daddy issues. He's not a full character anymore, and that's why the prospect of him headlining a movie feels weird.

But I don't think that has to be the case. You just need a writer and director who see Vic as more than a tool to comment on our modern relationship to technology or young men (particularly young Black men) and their relationships to their fathers. Rather, they need to see Vic as a complete character who has a life beyond just being a Cyborg.

I'd argue Firestorm and Shazam have the potential to make it vig. Firestorm is getting a small push right now in fact.
The only issue with Firestorm is that his more interesting powers are kind of complicated. Also, having to determine who is Firestorm; I swear every incarnation they've got running right now uses a different pairing.

Shazam can hit big too, but that movie is going to depend so much on casting for Billy and the Captain.
 

Boke1879

Member
I imagine they are going for a second critical bump thing. Like, two days before it releases in most places you've got a huge bump from the reviews.

Also they probably want all the reviews to come out at once

If the have any idea how reviewers will score the movie. This will be used as the last form of marketing before release.

Helping potential fence sitters jump off and go see it day one. Or people who previously had no vested interest in seeing it suddenly thinking about going.
 

Ahasverus

Member
Eh I think Geoff is not the one we should credit for this one. Now if JL turns out "mainstream good" then that's the time for that .
 
That's not 100% true, he also casted Gal Gadot, which according to reviews was a great thing.

But Honestly, Im not really living for this constant bringing up of Snyder by people who dislike him and support him. Its not something that can be painted as the actions of 'snyderites', cause a number of critics are doing it as well. This is Patty's work, I wish everyone would just focus on her and her team. That's its.

Nah. It's a shared universe, so, the studio makes it all. "Formulaic" and all that.

This argument doesn't make a lick of sense, whether it's aimed at Marvel or DC.
 

Dead

well not really...yet
Eh I think Geoff is not the one we should credit for this one. Now if JL turns out "mainstream good" then that's the time for that .
Geoff Johns no longer has a script credit. So tbh his involvement may not even have been much at all.
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
Eh I think Geoff is not the one we should credit for this one. Now if JL turns out "mainstream good" then that's the time for that .

he was heavily involved in this film, even wrote screenplay with some other guy. why wouldn't he be credited?

edit: he is not credited anymore?

well as far I know he was always doing set visits, and was way more involved in WW than in MoS or BvS.
 

shingi70

Banned
Just got to the season 2 finale of smallville. So far this was a decent season, a lot more mythology, and even a lot of the Freak of the week episodes had purpose in pushing the story forward.

Onto season 3.
 
Just got to the season 2 finale of smallville. So far this was a decent season, a lot more mythology, and even a lot of the Freak of the week episodes had purpose in pushing the story forward.

Onto season 3.

You're watching Smallville...?

Good luck and god speed. You'll need it.
 

Penguin

Member
Seems like another new poster

DAZZrb4U0AAY4Vr.jpg
 

BadAss2961

Member
Wonder what kind of box office WW could draw if it reviews as well as it's expected to right now. Always thought Man of Steel type numbers was its ceiling.
 
Top Bottom