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DNC chair won't speak at Dem convention following Wikileaks fallout

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Jeels

Member
I am not a Bernie bro but I am also not a fan of DWC at all. I am happy she's not speaking nor do I want her leading the party. Beyond just being an ineffective leader, I don't agree with a lot of her centrist policies and don't think she's good for the party. Hopefully we hear soon that there will be new leaders at the DNC.

Regardless, Hillary all the way.
 

qcf x2

Member
A) By all means, if you want to stop visiting the site, that's your call.
B) As the head of the DNC, DWS is responsible for the actions of the DNC. That's why she's not speaking (also because Bernie/Weaver have had specific complaints with her throughout the entire primary). She's a figurehead for the Democratic establishment and would get booed.
C) That said, there hasn't been anything in this leak implicating her in some grand conspiracy.

I think you're just uninformed.

He's right, even as a registered democrat the extreme political slant here is tremendously offputting. I don't think "stop visiting (a primarily gaming site with an off topic section)" is a very professional or respectful response to concerns about tone and vitriol, but neither is automatically hand waving somebody away as a republican or whatever childishness you have encouraged (by virtue of your status as a mod if nothing else) throughout the process. I have seen straight up bullying on this board and I can barely believe things have deteriorated so much because of an election cycle. But it's ok if the poster has an H in their avatar because hey, the mod does it and there's strength in numbers, the gloves come off and it's shame them away? I don't really think this forum should be openly endorsing any candidate like that (instead, it should encourage polite discussion of ideas and differences) but I'm sure your retort will be that it's not my site and I'm a filthy GOPer, which would be half right. Carry on.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
He's right, even as a registered democrat the extreme political slant here is tremendously offputting. I don't think "stop visiting (a primarily gaming site with an off topic section)" is a very professional or respectful response to concerns about tone and vitriol, but neither is automatically hand waving somebody away as a republican or whatever childishness you have encouraged (by virtue of your status as a mod if nothing else) throughout the process. I have seen straight up bullying on this board and I can barely believe things have deteriorated so much because of an election cycle. But it's ok if the poster has an H in their avatar because hey, the mod does it and there's strength in numbers, the gloves come off and it's shame them away? I don't really think this forum should be openly endorsing any candidate like that (instead, it should encourage polite discussion of ideas and differences) but I'm sure your retort will be that it's not my site and I'm a filthy GOPer, which would be half right. Carry on.

I don't feel conflicted about calling people out for obvious (and thankfully due to the nature of a message board) documented political leanings. I'm not unbiased and I have never claimed to be. I'm sorry you don't feel I should be able to openly endorse a candidate, but I don't agree. My rationale for that is extremely public and has been written many times in recent weeks. That does not mean we can't have discussion (however polite), though it is silly for people to assume everyone is being intellectually honest with everything they post.

Frankly, I'm a little tired of seeing people tone police.

For the record, if people want to say they would rather not post here because of their perceived notion of systemic bias, I support them in making that decision. That's not childishness. Posting it on the boards, though, is obviously self-motivated attention seeking so I encourage people not to do that.
 
Source your quotes, cause I can't believe this is a real post.

Matthew Jones of USC’s Political Science Department says:

It’s really difficult to make the argument that Ralph Nader cost Al Gore the 2000 election, for multiple reasons. There were only 560 votes separating George Bush from Al Gore. That’s essentially within every margin of error, which when it gets within the margin of error, means that there’s too many other factors that could have affected it to say with any confidence what caused Al Gore to lose and George Bush to win.

Every 3rd party candidate got over 600 votes, which means that if any one of those 3rd party candidates had potentially dropped out and those votes had gone to Al Gore, he would have won too. So once you start to make those arguments, you open up a can of worms that you just cannot put back. Almost half of the Democratic Party voters stayed home, so who’s to say that the people who voted for Ralph Nader, if they didn’t have the choice of Ralph Nader, wouldn’t have stayed home or voted for somebody else anyway?



In a 2004 article Tony Schinella broke down a lot of polling numbers (including those in states other than Florida, who also had an impact on the election) and pointed out that more registered Democrats voted for Bush than voted for Nader:

In Florida, CNN’s exit polling showed Nader taking the same amount of votes from both Republicans and Democrats: 1 percent. Nader also took 4 percent of the independent vote. At the same time, 13 percent of registered Democrats voted for Bush! Again, Gore couldn’t hold his own base and because of this, he lost. The Democrats don’t say one word about the fact that 13 percent of their own party members voted forBush.

On the ideological front, 3 percent of Nader’s vote identified themselves as “liberal,” while 2 percent called themselves “moderate” and 1 percent called themselves “conservatives.” An even split: 6 to 6.

When asked who they voted for in 1996, 1 percent of Nader’s voters said they voted for Bill Clinton, 1 percent said they voted for Bob Dole, and 10 percent said they voted for Ross Perot. Here is the chart:

1996——All—-Gore—-Bush—-Buchanan—-Nader
Clinton—-46——82——-16———0————-1
Dole——-30——–4——-93———0————-1
Perot——–7——23——-65———1———–10
No vote—12——50——-44———0————-7

Again, Perot voters trend conservative. In fact, by a 3 to 1 margin, Perot voters in Florida went with Bush. So, with Nader taking equally from voters who cast votes for Clinton as they did from Dole, and then 10 percent previously voting for Perot being split on a 3 to 1 margin to Bush, that shows that if Nader had not been in the race, the majority of those voters would have gone to Bush, by a 7 to 4 margin. Also note: 16 percent of Clinton’s vote went to Bush! Again, Gore couldn’t hold the previous administration’s support.

In a two-way race, CNN showed the results as Bush 49 percent, Gore 47 percent, with 2 percent not voting. And again, with no Buchanan, Bush gains thousands of votes. So, an even split of Nader voters offers no resolve to the matter of the state being thrown to the Supreme Court, with or without Nader.

Now, if you use the national exit polling data, yes, Gore wins handily. But it just doesn’t work that way. Each state is different. Both New Hampshire and Florida have large sections of independents who are conservative but not Bush conservatives. Many of them might vote for Nader but wouldn’t vote for Gore. Both New Hampshire and Florida are not like Oregon and Wisconsin. From personal experience, having lived in this state off and on for most of my life, I can tell you that independent voters in New Hampshire swing conservative. They might throw votes to Clinton; they might throw votes to Nader; but that doesn’t mean they would go to Gore.

Sourced from here; http://disinfo.com/2010/11/debunked-the-myth-that-ralph-nader-cost-al-gore-the-2000-election/
And here; http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/6/1260721/-The-Nader-Myth
And here; http://www.greens.org/s-r/25/25-03.html
 

atr0cious

Member
He's right, even as a registered democrat the extreme political slant here is tremendously offputting. I don't think "stop visiting (a primarily gaming site with an off topic section)" is a very professional or respectful response to concerns about tone and vitriol, but neither is automatically hand waving somebody away as a republican or whatever childishness you have encouraged (by virtue of your status as a mod if nothing else) throughout the process. I have seen straight up bullying on this board and I can barely believe things have deteriorated so much because of an election cycle. But it's ok if the poster has an H in their avatar because hey, the mod does it and there's strength in numbers, the gloves come off and it's shame them away? I don't really think this forum should be openly endorsing any candidate like that (instead, it should encourage polite discussion of ideas and differences) but I'm sure your retort will be that it's not my site and I'm a filthy GOPer, which would be half right. Carry on.

The persecution complex of some of you folks is so sad. Your childish antics get pointed out, and you call it bullying. You have no proof of corruption other than your opinion. The dastardly emails ended with no actions taken in text and in the practice, but you continue fucking that chicken. Don't vote, or vote trump/third party, no one ever believed you were in it for actual progress if this is the hill you want to die on.

"source your quotes" is short hand for you got this post from the dreggs of the internet because no one would be dumb enough to post this meme worthy contradictory shit and mean it.
It's dumb to look at it as zero sum. Stein cannot win, and most people who vote for her knows that. It's not about watching the country burn or letting Donald "It was a great night for Mexico" Drumpf win. It's just saying; We're here, and we can't support this over here. That is how Politics have always worked. You got some ideals and you might or might not compromise.
It's really ignorant if you don't think a protest third party vote is not saying something. Historically it hasn't said much, because Nader got a number of votes that was insignificance to the election. Gore himself blames the process in Florida, not the Green Party.
So fuck this false that democrats keep telling themselves about how Nader cost Gore the election.
Your protest vote means piss all, admittedly, but you're mad people are pointing it out to you.
 

legacyzero

Banned
Good. Get her out of there while you're at it.

I don't feel conflicted about calling people out for obvious (and thankfully due to the nature of a message board) documented political leanings. I'm not unbiased and I have never claimed to be. I'm sorry you don't feel I should be able to openly endorse a candidate, but I don't agree. My rationale for that is extremely public and has been written many times in recent weeks. That does not mean we can't have discussion (however polite), though it is silly for people to assume everyone is being intellectually honest with everything they post.

Frankly, I'm a little tired of seeing people tone police.

For the record, if people want to say they would rather not post here because of their perceived notion of systemic bias, I support them in making that decision. That's not childishness. Posting it on the boards, though, is obviously self-motivated attention seeking so I encourage people not to do that.
And what I like about you, is that you're one of the only pro-Hillary supporters on this board that never took snipes at me for being a Bernie supporter, but rather engaged me in discussion appropriately. I can't say the same for the tone of many other posters.

incidentally, per CNN's John King, it's now a matter of "is she leaving that post now, or is she leaving in 6 months when her term expires"

Wasn't she facing an election soon against Tim Canova?
 

legacyzero

Banned
pocahontas-bye-felicia.gif


Now get Tim Canova in there and make it rain.

Seriously, though, why do you say this?

DWS if a fucking poinsonous snake, clearly beholden to special interests and underhanded tactics. Also played a huge role is propping up Hillary during the Primary Season.
 

Steel

Banned
Yay, she's gone. Now to ring in the next party fellater who's job it is to deflect questions and criticism while smiling.
 
Holy shit, I can't believe the backlash toward DWS. This is the hard-working woman HRC hand picked and demanded for the job. Have you all no loyalty?
 

Blader

Member
Whoa out already? I'm a little surprised she did it before the convention, but I guess maybe better to do it now than have hanging it over the party this week. And also adds another feather in the Bernie camp's hat.
 

draetenth

Member
All I know is that most of this thread (and the earlier thread about the leaks) has just been a cycle of people making claims against the DNC, then other people asking for specific emails or other evidence to back up their claims, and then silence. It makes choosing which side to believe pretty easy tbh

Honestly that, plus Bernie's campaign in the latter months, makes it easier for me to vote for Hillary in November. Every thread ended with silence from the accusers once their arguments fell the pieces. There was a period when we'd see threads by certain posters trying to catch her in some "scandal" or "proof of corruption" and it always ended up being them merely being uninformed of the political process or being unable to identify her hand in said scandal.

It's always insinuation and innuendo. Needing for us to "read between the lines". That being said, of course she's no saint (like any politician) and I'm hoping with all the smoke we've had during the primaries we see more transparency from her and to a larger scale, the Democratic Party.

Yeah, as someone who doesn't follow the politics that closely, I have to agree with these two.
 

legacyzero

Banned
Holy shit, I can't believe the backlash toward DWS. This is the hard-working woman HRC hand picked and demanded for the job. Have you all no loyalty?

When her "loyalty" isn't towards the voters, why she Dems be loyal? Fuck that.

Whoa out already? I'm a little surprised she did it before the convention, but I guess maybe better to do it now than have hanging it over the party this week. And also adds another feather in the Bernie camp's hat.

The feather was always there. Just conveniently dismissed by Bernie detractors.
 

Armaros

Member
pocahontas-bye-felicia.gif


Now get Tim Canova in there and make it rain.



DWS if a fucking poinsonous snake, clearly beholden to special interests and underhanded tactics. Also played a huge role is propping up Hillary during the Primary Season.

Evidence? She is out because she is being scapegoated to placate bernicrats. She is a very popular congressmen from her district.

Also Canova already spent most of money and he doesn't have a Bernie campaign to latch into to fundraise.
 

Steel

Banned
Bernie was right all along about the fix being in.

The emails themselves prove that they didn't act on anything at all, though. The worst thing there is that one staffer had a shitty email about relgion, that was also not acted on(the reply to it was pretty much "no").

In either case, on the other side of the aisle you have someone who the RNC pretty much publicly coordinated against getting through the primary despite that.
 
I haven't seen confirmation that she's already out for good -- just replaced for convention.

yeah, the poligaf discord had a weird feedback loop going after my post about the meeting she was in (and also misread that NPR article), so that's my bad

dnc chairpersonship is still up in the air pending today, as far as anyone can tell
 

shem935

Banned
I haven't seen confirmation that she's already out for good -- just replaced for convention.



"In an email to NPR, the office of Rep. Marcia Fudge said she "has been named permanent chair of the Democratic National Convention.""

Ah nice catch sorry I missed that.
 
"source your quotes" is short hand for you got this post from the dreggs of the internet because no one would be dumb enough to post this meme worthy contradictory shit and mean it.Your protest vote means piss all, admittedly, but you're mad people are pointing it out to you.

???
 

Blader

Member
Oh, so she's not stepping down as DNC chair, just as chair of the convention. Isn't that what this thread is all about in the first place? :lol
 

LosDaddie

Banned
Good. Fuck her.

She has been absolutely disastrous for the Dem party with regards to local and state elections. She should resign immediately. Her ineffectiveness has put Dems in a massive hole.
 

Madness

Member
Good. Fuck her.

She has been absolutely disastrous for the Dem party with regards to local and state elections. She should resign immediately. Her ineffectiveness has put Dems in a massive hole.

You know how fucked up things are when her Co-chair resigned to support Sanders. What is crazy is people have been saying it for years but it took Wikileaks to sort of grant legitimacy here. She has been a disaster for a while.
 
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