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Dutch Broadcaster RTL replace Zwarte Piet with Soot Piet

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Aiii

So not worth it
Piet_def.jpg


Dutch Source: http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nederland/rtl-stopt-met-zwarte-piet-voortaan-alleen-pieten-met-roetvegen

Major broadcaster RTL (biggest TV broadcaster in the country) has decided to replace all depictions of Piet in their programming with "Schoorsteen Piet" (Chimney Pete) starting this year. Piet will no longer be known as "Zwarte Piet" and just go by "Piet" instead.

RTL isn't the "official" broadcaster of Piet, that is Dutch Public Broadcaster NOS. Lets hope they follow suit and do the same either this or next year (assuming they have already committed for this year, it might be too late for them to change).
 
Good.

I hope Belgian media follow suit. No need to continue a tradition with obvious racist tones and history just because it is a "tradition".
 
Good, hopes the NOS follows suit. No reason not to do this. Never got the 'b-b-bute it's tradition!' assholes. Piet isn't going anywhere. Just the racist parts of it. 'B-b-but it's not racist!'. Well, a big part of the black community does find it racist.. So change it.
 

Linius

Member
The perfect solution if you'd ask me. No longer grounds for racism debates if Pete looks like this from now on and it's still pretty close to the character's origins.
 

Ringo

Member
There should be a different solution.

Kids can now easily recognize who Piet is.
It completely demystifies him.

It's like Santa Claus without his beard.
 
They already did the same in a Belgian Sinterklaas movie last year, and I think the "official" Zwarte Piet here is soot-covered now, as well.

It's a positive evolution, even if most still don't see it that way. I was asked to play Zwarte Piet a few days ago and had to refuse because one of the other guys only wanted to have "traditional" Petes.
 

Relativ9

Member
I'm completely ignorant here, but was it really considered racist because he was a chimney sweeper who had sot in his face and thus people nicknamed him Black Pete? (like I said, completely unfamiliar with the character)
 

Social

Member
Now show a black and asian chimney piet holding hands with the white one and make them dance around a rainbow together.
 
Took 'em long enough. This was the simplest and quickly solution to the problem. They can continue to work-shop the design, but at least this way we don't have to disrespect people while we're figuring it out. I hope other TV channels are going to follow their lead.
 

Linius

Member
There should be a different solution.

Kids can now easily recognize who Piet is.
It completely demystifies him.

It's like Santa Claus without his beard.

Yeah that's a thing I didn't even think of. The myth of Sinterklaas coming from Spain is going to be hard to keep on to if your neighbour drops by school 'dressed' as Piet haha

No idea how little kids conceive it though, they might be so overwhelmed they still don't notice it.
 

Cub3h

Banned
I've always supported keeping Zwarte Piet as he is and have been opposed to "rainbow" Pieten as they looked ridiculous.

This seems like a fair compromise. The explanation of why Piet was black was because of soot, so now he looks like what the explanation calls for. It doesn't ruin the tradition, Piet is still Sinterklaas' friendly helper, the only thing they've changed in this version is getting rid of the black paint.
 

DoubleYou

Member
Yeah that's a thing I didn't even think of. The myth of Sinterklaas coming from Spain is going to be hard to keep on to if your neighbour drops by school 'dressed' as Piet haha

No idea how little kids conceive it though, they might be so overwhelmed they still don't notice it.

As a kid I got annoyed every time Sinterklaas looked too "fake". I can't speak for all the other kids, but I would've definitely noticed those details.
 
Piet_def.jpg


Dutch Source: http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nederland/rtl-stopt-met-zwarte-piet-voortaan-alleen-pieten-met-roetvegen

Major broadcaster RTL (biggest TV broadcaster in the country) has decided to replace all depictions of Piet in their programming with "Schoorsteen Piet" (Chimney Pete) starting this year. Piet will no longer be known as "Zwarte Piet" and just go by "Piet" instead.

RTL isn't the "official" broadcaster of Piet, that is Dutch Public Broadcaster NOS. Lets hope they follow suit and do the same either this or next year (assuming they have already committed for this year, it might be too late for them to change).


Damn op, missed opportunity to say 'follow soot'.
 

VulpX

Member
I think it will not take long for the other broadcasters to follow suit.

The pictured Piet could use a little more soot though, just to hide his features a little more. Don't think little kids will not recognise the friendly neighbour with only this small amount of soot. Demystifies Piet a little too much.

The salt on social media is great though.
 

13ruce

Banned
Yeah that's a thing I didn't even think of. The myth of Sinterklaas coming from Spain is going to be hard to keep on to if your neighbour drops by school 'dressed' as Piet haha

No idea how little kids conceive it though, they might be so overwhelmed they still don't notice it.


Kids don't even relate zwarte piet to black people here and i also did not when i was a kid. Imo i don't care about it they are fictional characters, They can change them or keep them i don't mind it either way.
 

Cub3h

Banned
Wow...jesus...fuuuuck. I Mean I thought he looked like the picture in the OP and they just changed the name, but this is....wow...

Please keep in mind that in the Netherlands we never had the "blackface" caricature, so the immediate negative connection Americans make was not as obvious to people who never grew up with the history of blackface and the heavy emphasis on slavery in the relatively recent history.

This "soot-Piet" is a great example of how to update a multiple century old tradition that should please both the traditionalists as well as people who were offended by the current look of Zwarte Piet. I'd love to know if any other Dutch Gaffers are still opposed to this version.
 
Please keep in mind that in the Netherlands we never had the "blackface" caricature, so the immediate negative connection Americans make was not as obvious to people who never grew up with the history of blackface and the heavy emphasis on slavery in the relatively recent history.

This "soot-Piet" is a great example of how to update a multiple century old tradition that should please both the traditionalists as well as people who were offended by the current look of Zwarte Piet. I'd love to know if any other Dutch Gaffers are still opposed to this version.

Zwarte Piet was your black face caricature
 
I'm completely ignorant here, but was it really considered racist because he was a chimney sweeper who had sot in his face and thus people nicknamed him Black Pete? (like I said, completely unfamiliar with the character)
It's more like it used to be a more blatant racist blackface caricature, old Dutch people were like "Whoa, this shit is kind of unacceptable when you think about it", so they changed the mythology to incorporate the chimney sweep story. This attempt to reclaim the imagery is where most of the disconnect comes from. People associate blackface imagery with Zwarte Piet now rather than black people, and thus think folks that try to re-connect the dots are seeing things that aren't there. They're now in an uncomfortable position where think if they admit that Piet looked racist, they may have participated in public acts of racism for years/decades. I'm sure that sucks to come to grips with, but I'm sure 3D printing technology will one day provide us with violins tiny enough to do this justice.

The chimney sweet explanation was insufficient anyway, since I don't know what type of chimney would give you curly hair and red lips. If people care so deeply, they should put that care into making it better.

There should be a different solution.

Kids can now easily recognize who Piet is.
It completely demystifies him.

It's like Santa Claus without his beard.
Well, how do other countries deal with real life depictions of Santa's elves? As far as I know, they don't have elaborate disguises on.
 

Dryk

Member
I've always supported keeping Zwarte Piet as he is and have been opposed to "rainbow" Pieten as they looked ridiculous.

This seems like a fair compromise. The explanation of why Piet was black was because of soot, so now he looks like what the explanation calls for. It doesn't ruin the tradition, Piet is still Sinterklaas' friendly helper, the only thing they've changed in this version is getting rid of the black paint.
As far as I understand it Piet was originally just black. The soot reasoning was a way of explaining away the blackface without actually changing it. It was the least plausible cover story ever but it apparently worked.
 

RocknRola

Member
This will always strike me as weird tradition, but oh well I'm sure someone somewhere is saying the same thing of me.

In any case, good to see that people are becoming more aware of the negative things that need to be corrected. The thing with traditions is that they aren't really set in stone, and just the something made alot of sense (to any given population) 500 years ago, it doesnt mean that today that is still the case.
 
Zwarte Piet was your black face caricature

People just weren't aware of it, that is true to an extent.

HOWEVER. Most of my countrymen certainly did not redeem themselves by the way they reacted to minorities voicing their discomfort at Zwarte Piet. On the contrary, they proved the point entirely that it is racist and hurtful. And by god these motherfuckers are dumb. I've even had to explain to fairly well educated people, who fucking should know better, that it does not matter diddly fucking squat how they feel about Zwarte Piet, because they are white. Yeah no shit you don't think it should be that big of a problem, you're not the one being depicted as a ridiculous racist caricature every fucking year. Jesus Christ it makes me so mad.

As for Sinterklaas. I feel the whole fucking thing has been tainted forever (and not by 'both sides' either, no there was just one side that did all the tainting, you had one chance to calmly transition to something less offensive and you blew it). Just shut it down.
 
I'm expecting them to be all white males with soot.
Next progressive step: Petes representing the multicultural demographic, and an actual black pete without racist connotation (how will the heavy anti Pete lobby react to that?)
 

Aiii

So not worth it
I'm expecting them to be all white males with soot.
Next progressive step: Petes representing the multicultural demographic, and an actual black pete without racist connotation (how will the heavy anti Pete lobby react to that?)

There are already black people playing Piet, that won't be a problem.
 

KonradLaw

Member
As for Sinterklaas. I feel the whole fucking thing has been tainted forever (and not by 'both sides' either, no there was just one side that did all the tainting, you had one chance to calmly transition to something less offensive and you blew it). Just shut it down.

Isn't he just Santa?
 
I work with a couple of Dutch and Belgian people, they're all nihilist pessimists though, so don't see them celebrating this.
 
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