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Dutch Broadcaster RTL replace Zwarte Piet with Soot Piet

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A

Aiii

So not worth it
screenshot2016-10-24aerxxa.png


Baby steps. Baby steps.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Dryk said:
As far as I understand it Piet was originally just black. The soot reasoning was a way of explaining away the blackface without actually changing it. It was the least plausible cover story ever but it apparently worked.
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He was originally probably a demon - the equivalent of the Bavarian Krampus - enslaved by the good St. Nicholas. As church figures tried to remove the pagan associations, the demon was explained away as figurative and replaced by a converted slave. In the oldest versions of the myth, the figure is much more malicious, stealing away naughty children, and so the slave was usually portrayed as a Moor due to the Barbary Slave trade; the Moors being the people of modern Morocco, Algeria, and Tunisia.
 
KonradLaw

KonradLaw

Member
Crab said:
He was originally probably a demon - the equivalent of the Bavarian Krampus - enslaved by the good St. Nicholas. As church figures tried to remove the pagan associations, the demon was explained away as figurative and replaced by a converted slave. In the oldest versions of the myth, the figure is much more malicious, stealing away naughty children, and so the slave was usually portrayed as a Moor due to the Barbary Slave trade; the Moors being the people of modern Morocco, Algeria, and Tunisia.
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I'm sorry, but this sounds so much more awesome that some human.
#BringBackDemonPiet
 
S

Stinkdeken

Neo Member
Aiii said:
Piet_def.jpg


Dutch Source: http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nederland/rtl-stopt-met-zwarte-piet-voortaan-alleen-pieten-met-roetvegen

Major broadcaster RTL (biggest TV broadcaster in the country) has decided to replace all depictions of Piet in their programming with "Schoorsteen Piet" (Chimney Pete) starting this year. Piet will no longer be known as "Zwarte Piet" and just go by "Piet" instead.

RTL isn't the "official" broadcaster of Piet, that is Dutch Public Broadcaster NOS. Lets hope they follow suit and do the same either this or next year (assuming they have already committed for this year, it might be too late for them to change).
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As a dutch person myself I don't really care, I only wish that they change it soon and change it completely across the country.
 
M

-MB-

Member
Stinkdeken said:
As a dutch person myself I don't really care, I only wish that they change it soon and change it completely across the country.
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Good luck with that since most people organising it locally still support black pete in its current incarnation and will likely ignore this. I know a few schools locally that for sure won't follow suit.
 
eXistor

eXistor

Member
Powdered Toastman said:
Thing is, most houses in the Netherlands don't even have chimneys any more, so to 'introduce' the soot-piet doens't make much sense to me...
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Not in the traditional, stoke-a-fire-chimney sense maybe, but almost every house here has them. Just looking in my street I see like 30.
 
G

GAMEPROFF

Banned
-MB- said:
Good luck with that since most people organising it locally still support black pete in its current incarnation and will likely ignore this. I know a few schools locally that for sure won't follow suit.
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Give it a few years. Of course there wont be change after a couple of days.
 
S

Stinkdeken

Neo Member
-MB- said:
Good luck with that since most people organising it locally still support black pete in its current incarnation and will likely ignore this. I know a few schools locally that for sure won't follow suit.
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Yeah and that's too bad, since it will be less believable for my children if there are two diffrent kind of pieten/stories running around.

Ah well, might be a better idea to start celebrating Christmass and Haloween as bigger festivities in holland xD
 
woopWOOP

woopWOOP

Member
Yeah, I like this.
I remember advertisement folders doing the same thing a year or two back. Still clearly Piet, I think it's a good change.

...I miss the giant earrings tho. C'mon, those weren't that bad were they? They were so rad! Oh nevermind.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
-MB- said:
Good luck with that since most people organising it locally still support black pete in its current incarnation and will likely ignore this. I know a few schools locally that for sure won't follow suit.
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The kids will see the correct version of Piet on TV, then continuously ask the locals why the fuck their Piet looks so wrong and they will change it. Won't take more than a year or two.
 
C

ClosingADoor

Member
Powdered Toastman said:
Thing is, most houses in the Netherlands don't even have chimneys any more, so to 'introduce' the soot-piet doens't make much sense to me...
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I don't think you need to look at what makes sense when talking about a 1000+ year old man coming in on a boat from Spain giving everyone in a country presents on the same day.
 
W

Weckum

Member
So happy about this. Progress! Been drinking racist tears all morning.

Also, the decision brings out the absolute worst in people.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Neoriceisgood said:
Cool! Been curious which of the "big" media outlets would be ahead of the curve in this.
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I'm convinced this isn't RTL acting on it's own. Especially since they cite ongoing discussion that include Minister Asscher. Maybe SBS will not play along given their core demographic, but I reckon the NOS will join them, especially since they already started the change to Soot Pieten last year. They won't say anything before November 9th, though.
 
P

pinkurocket

Member
About time. Locals getting upset over this is so petty. This change is a good compromise between the original look of 'zwarte piet' and the retrofitted 'he's black because he goes down chimneys' excuse.
 
M

Myriadis

Member
I don't know if it's still a tradition in Germany but when I was a child I remember Santa having a helper, and he looked exactly like that, and certainly not like the racist caricature.
 
K

Kabouter

Member
Largest political party in NL, the conservative right wing VVD calls this a "very stupid move" and says that "Zwarte Piet belongs to this children's holiday. A holiday of Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet. In this way we will cause it to disappear." Their leader calls to "Let children have their holiday, and let Zwarte Piet continue to exist."
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Kabouter said:
Largest political party in NL, the conservative right wing VVD calls this a "very stupid move" and says that "Zwarte Piet belongs to this children's holiday. A holiday of Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet. In this way we will cause it to disappear." Their leader calls to "Let children have their holiday, and let Zwarte Piet continue to exist."
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Mark Rutte only has a spine around election year, no worries.
 
M

Magic Mushroom

Member
Kabouter said:
Largest political party in NL, the conservative right wing VVD calls this a "very stupid move" and says that "Zwarte Piet belongs to this children's holiday. A holiday of Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet. In this way we will cause it to disappear." Their leader calls to "Let children have their holiday, and let Zwarte Piet continue to exist."
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Halbe Zijlstra, classy as always.
 
P

PjotrStroganov

Member
Blue Ninja said:
They already did the same in a Belgian Sinterklaas movie last year, and I think the "official" Zwarte Piet here is soot-covered now, as well.

It's a positive evolution, even if most still don't see it that way. I was asked to play Zwarte Piet a few days ago and had to refuse because one of the other guys only wanted to have "traditional" Petes.
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How is this going down in Belgium by the way? I don't hear much uproar from south of the border.
 
E

El Topo

Member
Myriadis said:
I don't know if it's still a tradition in Germany but when I was a child I remember Santa having a helper, and he looked exactly like that, and certainly not like the racist caricature.
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Knecht Ruprecht. There is no racist caricature there.
We do have Sternsinger though, where this can happen.
 
M

Myriadis

Member
El Topo said:
Knecht Ruprecht. There is no racist caricature there.
We do have Sternsinger though, where this can happen.
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Yes, that was the name. The one I remember also had some coal on his face like at the topmost photo but also had some kind of poor look with the old clothes and unkempt hair. I assume that the source is the same but developed differently.
 
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